Percents are used to build up towards a KO
Aside from this, percents become to underly strategies which usually centralize around delaying the match to time-out a win, for the most part
Percents are important, but stocks matter more in the end
Taking a stock doesn't always revolve around dealing higher level damage
Gimps, spikes and SD's happen
You seem to miss the part where I said "You seem to believe that because it is the goal, that makes it important". The game still plays the same without the KO at the end! That is what I was attempting to point out with the soccer example. Even if you don't KO at the end, you are still playing the same way.
All the methods of interaction with the ball are absolutely meaningless if you never score
Yes, but assume that you get points for things other than goals such as how long you hold the ball and how good your shots are. THEN it isn't pointless, just like how MH can be beaten via percentage.
Stellar ball manuevering, impenetrable defense and highly sync'd teamwork show an awesome team, but if they never score a single goal then they suck
Simple as that because there is such a heavy emphasis on scoring
If they do make a goal, the rest of their skills become highly more important
To maintain that goal lead
Your example of "if there's some perfect goalie" is flawed in reference to Master Hand because he has no uber player skill to prevent anything
It's his entire design not being meant for stock matches
His design is what is flawed in allowing him to compete in Melee tournaments
But the argument is the same, whether it takes skill or not is irrelevant in this case, the end result is what is important. Either way, it is a physical impossibility for the other player(s) to score/KO. Do we ban that goalie?
No stocks would favour campers and plankers
No stocks means you just have to worry about a percent lead
Absolutely no reason for necessary confrontation
Why pick DK if no stocks are in use?
A match against Pit becomes hopeless as he has aboslutely no reason to approach
All of DK's moves are direct
No projectiles and not so many disjoints
Why pick D3 if I can just go Falco and laser camp the entire match?
Avoiding the confrontation needed for a KO
Approaching only becomes a problem for the character that needs direct confrontation
The majority of campers/plankers need to eventually force a direct confrontation to land a KO
Take stocks out of the equation and it renders that pointless
Sure, they would still be spacing and the like, but shifting away from KO's makes for a completely different metagame
Lol. This is Melee not Brawl. My point was that you still need all the same skills, sure the meta-game would be different, that is going to happen with any change. But none of those issues matter with MH anyway.
To me, it makes far too much sense to not even consider Master Hand as legit since he cannot even be KO'd
A glaring advantage ahead of the rest of the cast
Not as some gimmick, but as in his design
Not being meant to be used in a stock match
'Not being meant to be used' is not and will never be a reason for banning. Ever. His "glaring" advantage of not being KO'd is countered by his large amount of "glaring" disadvantages.
To humor over-centralization
Seeing as how Master Hand need not worry about his own well-being (percent, stocks), his usage is favorable because all that needs to be worried about is KO'ing the opponent once
For a character that can continually whiff out attacks with no worry, landing a KO isn't too far-fetched in the least
So why go Ganon when all I have to do against the Fox player is go Master Hand and constantly whiff out attacks?
Moves such as the flying fist and overhead handslap aren't useful due to their immense predictability
Moves such as the sweeping slap and walking fingers are quick, damaging and aren't too shabby for knockback
Are you trying to say that MH is too broken to be legal?! Excuse me for a moment...
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!
Computer controlled Master Hand randomly utilized moves such as laser beams
Player controlled Master Hand can strategize to land moves via useful attacks
Look mate, I have used MH a very large amount. He is not good at all. The power and usefulness of his attacks are completely rendered irrelevant by their ease of dodging them. Go to a tournament and use MH against a good Fox and make sure you tell me how badly you perform.
When it comes down to it, landing a single kill with Master Hand within 7 minutes is not that far-fetched
Especially for a seasoned player
So if I land a single kill, I win
Bar none
Completely ignore how he's still got 3 stocks left
He can't possibly even the score
Why play as a character that has to worry about being killed when I can play Master Hand and only have to worry about landing single kill?
This can prove a problem for a sudden influx of Master Hand users since all I gots to worry about are my single kill wins
(kinda doubt the Melee scene would go for such a character that resembles Brawl's metagame lol)
Just stop. Want to prove MH is broken? Win a tourney with him. I don't need to prove anything if you don't have any facts.
It's called randomly picking examples
Taking out attacking shouldn't even be considered due to how lolworthy that one is
Approaching ain't needed vs Master Hand with various characters
Master Hand lacking such a crucial element of stock matches still continues to raise the red flag
No stock lose?
lolwut
That's a huuuuuuuuuuuuge difference he has from the rest of the cast
Not having what every character is forced to have?
No knockback?
Unable to be grabbed?
No shield?
No free movement?
No recovery?
He's so dramatically different because of how he isn't even meant as a legit Smash character
He's just some glitch "character"
It doesn't matter how different he is. That isn't criteria for banning. While he doesn't have all of those elements, the lack of them does not over-centralize gameplay.
If he could lose stocks, he wouldn't amount to anything
That would mean he no longer has his trump card advantage
Inability to lose stocks to put more focus in whiffing out attacks for my single kill win
Master Hand would have a very shallow "metagame"
His entirity is based on attacks
No free movement like everyone else
Seeing as he can't lose any stocks, his metagame revolves around obtaining a single kill win
That's really it
Very shallow
Again, not a reason for his banning. But my reasoning for the possibility of his meta-game advancing is what I said about how much can still be discovered about this game.
Not much
The Master Hand glitch isn't even all that noteworthy since I doubt he'll ever become tourney legal
Like, ever
He's just some glitch that enables you to play as a boss
I still fail in seeing as to why people push for his usage in tourneys, actually
He's not even officially part of the cast
Not to mention how the likelyhood for Melee being well and alive for 14 years is rather iffy
Next Smash will be out by the next 7 years
You completely missed the point. All you were supposed to take from that is that stuff is still being discovered.
It's called being realistic
Only Item Play is something I see as potentially useful in the future
But the community is so stubborn in making dramatic change (see Metaknight), item use or implementing Tier Wars as the new norm will most likely never happen
Hacked Brawl is an entirely different community of its/their own
It has absolutely no impact on competitive vBrawl or Melee
That's where it's at
