Mass Effect (King Maker) - Glorious Way to End the Day. Mafia Wins!

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

wow holy balls dabuz and kary might be the scum team

 

[Death Bear]

wow holy balls dabuz and kary might be the scum team

so much of this.

so much of this.

 

[Dabuz]

wow holy balls dabuz and kary might be the scum team

so much of this.

so much of this.

*Sigh* What stupid thing did I say now? -_-

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

everything you just wrote made my gut kick me in the face and say: holy crap that looks a lot like what he did as a traitor to me in GS3

 

[Dabuz]

I have never been a traitor in mafiascum.

 

[Dabuz]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I never even played in GS3.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

wait right here

 

[Dabuz]

Ok, GS3. I just looked up threads, yes I was in that game. (Dont' remember it, will re-read) But I was townie.

 

[Dabuz]

OH, everyone flipped as "town" in that game.

Ok yeah, I don't remember that game at all lol. But please go on.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

you were a town traitor lol.

Like, you knew i was mafia and your wincon went against town.

i.e : effectively a indy/traitor mix

 

[Death Bear]

everything you just wrote made my gut kick me in the face and say: holy crap that looks a lot like what he did as a traitor to me in GS3

wait right here

you were a town traitor lol.

Like, you knew i was mafia and your wincon went against town.

i.e : effectively a indy/traitor mix

sorry about all the off hydra stuff rockin

 

[Dabuz]

Oh ok. I'm re-reading it now. Anyway, what are you getting at?

 

[Death Bear]

basically in the end when my lynch was on the table, previously you had this opinion of i was defending myself really well and all was cool beans town read.

then when my lynch started to pick up steam you did an enormous 180 on my slot and proceeded to point out a whole bunch of stuff from the thread that had been easily prevalent the entire time , and proceeded to call me guaranteed scum. Plus you pretty much came out of an inactivity kick to do so.

 

[Death Bear]

i'm going to go look over your posts to see your exact wording on kary up to your last post now.
Just to be safe before i go after this any further

 

[Dabuz]

*Taps foot*

 

[Omni]

that wall was awful hando

your entire post was made off the premise that Soup was "50% scum" because of a joke post saying that Death Bear and Soup are 50% scum cuz they both provided aid to someone who asked a mafia related question. and the post literally surrounded around this entire concept of 50%

and then the question u asked at the end is something that i've answered 10x over in this game.

why are you questioning me? do u think im scum or not? u didnt say anything aside from the fact that it's weird that i place dabuz (null) over soup (lean scum) which i think everyone picked up 10 pages ago.

 

[Omni]

hm? no. i'm just sticking to my initial read on you. you smell a little funny, but i think Soup is 10x a better lynch choice than you toDay.

and this post was directed TO Soup. it's very clear that i'm not referring to Soup as i address Soup as "you". clearly referring to Dabuz.

you're skimming, hando. it's painfully obvious to see. i dont really feel a need to have a back and forth with you when it's pretty much just me bringing you up to speed with events that have already happened or explanations that have already been made

just tell me if u want me dead or not.

 

[Omni]

and for god's sake people. decide who u want dead today. 1000 posts in and ur still not sure who u want to lynch? jesus booty cracks.

 

[Omni]

since u actually tried unlike gheb, i'll respond anyway, bro

Here's your case against Soup that you always refer back to. Basically, like you said, you don't like what he's doing. Stances are iffy. etc. etc. You read him as 50% scum. Maybe a decent case back then, maybe. But it doesn't cut it now. It needs to be expounded upon.

first 50% thing.

Woa, woa. So first you get a 50% scum read on Soup. That's a fairly strong read, if you ask me. That isn't a null, "I have no idea". That's a "I'm fairly certain he's scum, but I could be wrong. Wouldn't surprise me either way. 50/50 chance." But now that isn't strong enough. Apparently, Dabuz is a better choice to lynch. This has him at least at 51%, right? Cause 50% just isn't strong enough.

...more 50% things...

Wait! Soup is still you're strongest read, at 50% or so. Maybe more now, maybe less, but at least it's the strongest. That has to put Dabuz under him in the Scum Rating System. So, what I understand here is that even though you think Soup is most likely scum of everybody and that we would get the most information out of an actual scum flip since now we can look for scum connections with scum, you'd rather lynch someone with less of a probability of being scum and netting the results we want. Just because he might be a liability a few days down the line, when, hey, we could have the game won. Ok.

even more 50% things

Ok. Assuming Soup is still 50%. That means Dabuz is 5%. Everyone else is <5%. Those are some strong words there. Soup's the scummiest of all AND the best lynch choice, yet you still don't want to lynch him over someone else?

even, even more, more 50% things

So when I get to this, I'm pretty confused.
Are you still standing by the dabuz lynch? Do you still think soup is as scummy as before?

the end of the argument. i think everyone else could answer these questions for me. yes and no, are the answers respectively.

you're not really scumhuntin' man. c'mon. c'mooooon. ur smarter than this. you've been playing way before i started mafia. i get that u werent caught up, but i can't respond to this. like, Death Bear has been asking me really really good questions throughout the game. you'll notice him and i go back and forth on point. but im not sure what u want me to do with this

you'll probably die really soon at this pace

 

[Dabuz]

*Taps foot more*

Fun fact, we have more posts toDay than D1 of Majora's mask mafia, IIRC the longest mafia game in decisive games.

 

[Omni]

all hail the king

 

[Omni]

BSP. you stalling is really ruining what we made of this day so far. end the damn game with the majority lynch choice, please.

 

[Dabuz]

Omni, if you're still here, what do you think about the first part of my 1440? Referring to NH.

 

[Omni]

u mean this?

He might be town, but you didn't hear it from me...

idk. i think u might be town, too, LOL. but i also think u might be scum.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

not going to be able to search all dem quotes right this second.

/will be back later

 

[Death Bear]

After Skimming Kary and Bardull's interactions, looks like Kary just pressured for the sake of getting pressure, doesn't seem like he/ she had any reason to pressure.

not going to be able to search all dem quotes right this second.

/will be back later

mfw i need to use 2 browsers

 

[Dabuz]

Well, think about NH's play this game. He's been parading on me being scum this whole game without reasoning. He's deadset on me being scum. Now he's saying I could be town. That one post looks like a huge backdoor.

 

[Dabuz]

Actually...could it be a slip?

 

[BarDulL]

\I've looked over most of Dabuz's posts this game, and most of them seem poorly thought out (King should do whatever he wants/King quicklynching is immediately scummy, other stuff) but it's not necessarily indicative of scum alignment per se, just...fairly newbish.

Didn't really like his response to Omni's vote...then again, Omni's vote on Dabuz is kinda unwarranted anyway since Omni postulated that he had an "air head" town read on Dabuz. I feel a bit of sarcasm w.r.t. Dabuz's "I'm glad you brought up the rules of the king" remark in his conversation with Omni.

I don't know in all honesty; is Dabuz acting out of character with his normal self? I feel like he hasn't done anything off per se as of yet.

Also, where are the big cases against Dabuz? Someone direct me to them under all these pages of text.

 

[Jdietz43]

@Soup: Alright, let me start this little response off by saying I'm really pleased you actually had a Dabuz case and walked through it even sligthly. That's more than every other person on the Dabuz wagon had leading up to that point and it was something I was looking for. Before that there was no way of knowing if any of the reasoning on Dabuz was legitimate and it was really skewing my view of events to see no reasonable amount of explanation (much as you saw from my issues with Kary apparently). It makes me feel better about your slot, especially now that we're talking.

Jumping into the questions (I'm too lazy to quote every section, you'll just have to use logic to view the responses in chronological order of asking):

I can see where you're coming from with Dabuz not seeming concerned about scum-hunting. I wrote him off as being preoccupied with people attacking him for otherwise no explained reasons (I distinctly remember his play in Celebrity Rehab 2 as being... noteworthy for in-glamorous reasons), but I could see how that would be concerning if you felt like he was just avoiding all forms of meaningful communication.

I had Omni on my list and still do to some extent because I feel like he's just been sitting on Dabuz. He's the only person in the game who openly stated that he had Dabuz at null but would still like him to go, yet seemed content to leave it at that. Between that and arguing with Gheb (who I've come to agree with on some points in the Gheb v. Omni side of this game) his slot left me feeling iffy. Omni has stated that he intends to become more of a factor once Dabuz is gone (or D1 ends), so I'm somewhat taking his word on that for now. We'll see where it goes, until then I keep my eye out.

"I want you to still tell me why you felt it made sense with Kary or if that was just a feeling you had about him. "

Not sure what exactly you're asking on this one. If you mean something like "Why do you think it made sense for me (soup) to be aligned with Kary", then the answer is the timing and the fact Kary had just been on record defending you (and I already had him down as scum). The way he went from "this is Soup meta, chill" to attacking you at roughly the same time you went from "I missed it" to attacking him seemed like a eureka moment. In my mind it was "They were fine with each other... but now they're both bussing each other suddenly. Perfect scumtell." Put that together with the fact you were both pushing Dabuz and viola, a decent case to be made for partners.

My opinion of Omni is still largely the same as above, I can't shake that he's shifty but he hasn't done anything major and has promised to do more toMorrow.


I'm glad you took the time to make that case, it makes your stance much more legitimate after I read through it. I can see now where Dabuz isn't as innocently null as I had put him down for if you look at it from the angle he's not committing. I wouldn't rush to call Dabuz for sure scum after that case, his meta supports a good possibility of dumbTown, but I would definitely no longer complain in the case of a Dabuz kill and don't feel like wanting Dabuz gone is necessarily a scum tell like I did before. (there are still ways of going about chasing him down that seem scummy however, you know exactly what I mean)

Ok, I get that. I didn't like doing this wall exchange and shout out either, and there was definitely a point in there where I was silently praying BSP would just shoot you so we wouldn't have to deal with it, but you understand why succumbing to that notion would have been anti-town. Problem is when I see people swearing and screaming my brain goes on "Here comes the scum shout down routine" mode and just locks out. I'm kind of used to the default last line of scum defense being either just pleading or screaming angrily, so when I play with people who talk like that even when they aren't desperate it just looks like you're flailing.

Ok, I'd have to say I'm still more confident in a Kary scum flip because there's room for meta doubt on Dabuz. I wouldn't be sad to see either go anymore though. I'd have to definitely think about whether a scumDabuz flip would influence my Kary read, I'd been mentally viewing it as a ML attack on Dabuz from Kary for a long time. If I had to guess at other Kary partners besides you I'd say NH comes to mind, he's verbally supported Kary in the past and was on the Dabuz hard body train for no explained reason for a long time. Mastermind also is worth noting as having questioned why Kary was scum, but he might have changed his mind after my last case, we'll see.

Yeah, I already had you as partners with Kary in my head. I was delving into it right about when you got on me and it seemed like you were just trying to move the argument onto me to get your own neck and partner some breathing room. It was grimy and I responded with force, I remembered how fierce the fight was in ERB and expected to really have to wrestle you to the ground if I was going to make a case on you. I guess I took it too hard too fast and you followed suit.

That's fair enough.

 

[Death Bear]

This game has 12 day, day phases, are you ****ing kidding me?

BSP end the day. Hando preferably. I'm gonna look at Rake's thoughts on Dabuz and Kary in a sec.

:hpfox:

 

[Death Bear]

what the ****? garbage post

NO ONE MAKE HORRENDOUS POSTS LIKE THESE

BSP ****ING SHOOT DABUZ SO I CAN PROGRESS WITH MY READS AND DO BATTLE WITH OTHER MOTHER****ERS ALREADY

not that i find death bear scummy for this. its just an awful post that pissed me off to the point i felt the need to express how bad it was for the sake of not having to read anything similar in this game (preferably my life)

nah its helping town by telling them not to make bad reads lists that tell us almost nothing

Welp, looks like I made Marshy mad. But...in a good way.

eanut:

 

[Death Bear]

I still have questions to get to, and I will, but I'm wondering: why Dabuz over Kary?

Please just shoot people.

:king:

 

[Death Bear]

so much of this.

so much of this.

Post in the QT when you get the chance, I've been semi reading this game too much, my drive to read is shot down by the mass posting going on.

 

[No Hetero]

dabuz dead yet? dabuz post your role peso you die faster please.

@King
Me, Gheb, Omni, Soup, Death Bear, and Hando (maybe more) have expressed that we want want this day to end. Entire GAMES have been shorter than this ****ing dayphase. Stop tortutring us and ignore the people writing off dabuz as dumb over scum. Please copy + paste the following code into your next post:

execute dabuz

 

[Jdietz43]

reading up now

 

[BSP]

I know you guys want the Day to be over, but I'm still debating the best flip (Dabuz v Kary)

Should I flip a coin?

 

[Death Bear]

Dabuz dies today

Kary is null-leaning town IMO. He/ she is almost certainly pressuring me for the sake of pressuring me and generating discussion.

Sorry I don't have more solid reads, but most of my time atm is dealing with Kary's pressure.

Still think he's just pressuring for the sake of pressure and getting discussion in the game.

Soup, this is what I summarized from your case on Kary: (From my notes)

-Doesn't like the slot coming into thread posting things like "vote dabuz" since the slot is better than that and it isn't helpful.
-Worried thAT kARY IS PUSHING SLOTS WITH NO REASON after giving a stance. (oops, caps)
-suspicious of Kary pushing a slot so hard but then not willing to follow up with a lynch.
-WRT death bear: Soup states it's scummy for Kary to note a scrutiny of Death bear's slot but not follow it up in the same way KAry followed up scrutiny on the slots of Bardull and Myself. The lack of action doesn't' justify the explanation. Believes Kary is trying to find an excuse and lie to not pressure Death Bear's slot.
-Has a callout for Kary saying the slot isn't doing anything by telling people to lynch. Kary has yet to answer an earlier question and Soup thinks that is because Kary has no good answer to explain him/ herself.

From BSP's case on the Kary (the other case I've read), it's just a lot of talk about Kary being contradictory.

I highlighted the red to show parts of your case I did not even notice of in his play and take interest in, green is for something I have a disagreement with.

I didn't even notice the way Kary ignores DB despite the fact it would be fitting for the slot to follow up on DB considering previous explanations. I was trying to hint at something similar when asking Kary his opinion on Jdietz this game (bottom of my most recent wall of text directed to Kary which Kary has yet to post since I posted), but wouldn't have noticed the types of connections you are making ATM. Neither would have I been able to push it probably. :l

The other red highlight, regarding Kary not answering your question, is definitely suspicious. Hell, it's pretty scummy if Kary can't find a good answer for it when he next posts.

The green is where I disagree because I still think Kary was pushing for pressure. I do still think it is for pressure, but reading your case, it could be non-directed pressure? Feels null to me since I can see reasons for town and scum doing that.

I do have a solid stance on Kary.

Before answering your question JD, I gotta follow up on this. After reading Soup's case, I felt kinda stupid on my interpretation of Kary. Like I just read her posts, but didn't head anywhere intelligent with my line of thought. My stance at this point was leaning scum but wanted to read new Kary posts to prevent being swayed easily by one side.

Kary finally got to posting and responding to **** and it didn't do anything for my read after Soup's case, nothing was memorable about the new Kary posts either, which makes the slot look worse to me. Like, I read it all trying to find value in the posts, but truly couldn't.

Now, I read your whole case and tried to summarize most of your paragraphs/ points so it's easier to re-look at in my notes.

JD's case on Kary:
-Pushes me without reason
-Asks JD to buddy Kary in order to vote me
-Kary doesn't want to explain himself and is more interested on putting out the votes on Bardull
-Kary wants to open up discussion but doesn't actually do anything to open discussion.
-Kary shuts out any form of discussion with Bardull.
-Kary isn't answering questions.
-Kary is pretendign to get reads
-Kary doesn't justify herself with explanations
-Kary is using his bpressure to get me to pressure Bardull
-JD votes Kary for this play so far
-Kary is twisting my words (Somrthing I posted on)
-Kary is being contradictory with regard to playstyle vss words
-Kary is tryign to wave off his pressure on me as nothing now
-Kary is showing her pressure didnt' actually give anything
-Mindlessly tries to push people on my wagon
-Kary blows off the entire game so far as nothing
-Kary has been wasting time this game on purpose
-”You pile on... AND FIGURE OUT*WHY*LATER!?”

After reading your case, I'm all aboard the KaryScum train. The slot just...reeks of scum after seeing all the logical connections you made. Also, you're a strong town read to me now.

Just gonna let these posts speak for themselves. btw
YOU DIE TODAY.

 

[Omni]

If you flip a coin when majority lynch is Dabuz, I will personally shoot you upon reaching a gun with no hesitation. At least pretend you have town's best interest in mind.

 

[Death Bear]

Just let it be known that those quotes were really really far apart, and there's little to no reason beyond dabuz clearly buddying the kary case at hand that he couldn't have seen those things himself, or mentioned them without being explicitly pointed to them.

Dabuz is smelling of scum, i can't ignore the complete U-turn he's done on kary recently and it reminds me far too much of how he 180'd on me as a traitor in GS3 for me to let it slide.