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Marvel

Emblem Lord

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MvC2 is one of those games that is so broken it should have never been played competively, but because it's so popular it got picked up anyway.

This game is alot of fun, but alot of cheese too. I make it a point not to take broken games too seriously. There is so much you can do in this game, but only a small fraction of it is viable in tourney play. I like the game, but dislike the gameplay if you can understand where I'm coming from. Most match-ups is just relying cheap tactics or cheesy infinites and traps. Plus you are constantly spamming the assist button. Matches are fun and fast paced but thier is so much bullcrap in this game it isn't even funny.

BTW Magneto/Storm/Cable FTW!!!!

Psyche. I don't play this game anymore. It had alot of potential, but capcom made no attempt at balance as usual. This pretty much killed it for me.
 

rockman2k1

Smash Journeyman
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MvC2 get's played still because it's fun. It's that simple! If we played games based on balance, then it would be nothing but either Virtua Fighter, and Guilty Gear XX and pretty nothing else.
 

Zenith

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
906
Mag/Storm/Cable ?
That team as no strategy, or technique.
Just becuz itz 3 gods doesn't make it a good team.
Replace Mag w/ Doom or Sentinel and itz a good team.

Marvel is barely popular and i believe it slowly lose itz popularty over the year of 2007.
Only becuz of Next gen systems.
 

Emblem Lord

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My statement about that 3 god team was to prove the point that marvel is broken. In terms of strategy that team isn't very good. But because it's 3 gods it would **** most other teams that don't have at least one god. I'm saying that unless you use the gods you really can't play this game and hope to win against someone that's good.

Anyway, MvC2 isn't even a good game IMO. It's broke as a joke, and is only one of the games that lives up to the tradition of brokeness that Capcom perpetuates.

Zenith: Sentinal and Doom are beastly with thier assists.
 

Zenith

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
906
The gods are cheap, especially Mag & Cable.
Nothin but ROM & AHVB

There are very few players like Duc Do, who actually play a non god character as a point character and still kick *** (I've beaten Duc many times)
But the fact that he still needed gods to make Spiral good.

My favorite chars are Rouge & Cyke, I been playin them since the beginning.
My first team was Hayato/Strider/Rouge
Now I play MSCyke, Santhrax, Duc
My favorite team is Rouge/Sent/Cyke

More ppl need to learn playing characters they like, rather than characters that are good.
 

Emblem Lord

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Sorry I have been spoiled by a series that is not only fun, but balanced as well.

Guilty Gear FTW!
 

Zenith

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
906
I've been spoiled by CvS2 and KOF XI.
Man I otta make a Capcom vs SNK 2 thread.
 

Zenith

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
906
SSBM: Wavedash and Chain grab whoring
Naruto GNT4: Substitution Jutsu spamming
KOF XI: Oswald

Every game is brolen in itz own way.
 

Emblem Lord

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LOL@ wavedash spamming.


Yes guilty gear has broken stuff. But everyone has broken stuff in that game and its not uncommon for a low tier to beat a top tier consistently. That's why people love the game. Guilty gear is a helluvalot more balanced then MvC2 and SSBM.

You can't spam in GG series. The game punishes you for it and takes all your tension. And Sol is good, but not top tier. I would pick Johnny over Sol in GGXX.

I'm a Chipp Zanuff lover myself.
 

Peaches

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
1,269
Erm, Sol is really high up there. And in Slash he's top.

And yeah, you can spam in GUilty Gear.

In Marvel you can use how many teams competitively?

hmmmmm. . .
 

Emblem Lord

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I know you aren't trying to say that GG is as broken as MvC2.

Because that would deserve a serious ROFLMAO!

Of course you can spam. But the game will punish you which is why most of the time you don't spam.

I never said the game doesn't have brokeness. My point was that low tiers do beat top tiers and it's hailed as the most balanced fighter in the market right now.
 

rockman2k1

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Texas and New Mexico
I just pretty much said what I did say because of you calling CvS2 nothing but RC whoring. And you know it's not true despite if a few scrubs would say otherwise. Just like how scrubs say Slash is nothing more than Ky throwing fireball at you all day, or Eddie being the **** that he is in #Reload.

Peaches: There are quite a few teams in Marvel2 that can compete, I think you mean characters! =D
 

Emblem Lord

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Rockman: My comment wasn't directed at you. It was directed at peaches.
And you have to admit that roll cancelling is abused quite a bit. Roll cancel abuse is usually the deciding factor in high level matches.
 

OneWingSephiroth

Smash Journeyman
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There's spamming in basically 99.9% of all fighting game you cannot just single out one, and btw, Emblem Lord, your a joke seriously, to even think MvC2 is "not" good, it is the single most Entertaining Fighting 2-D fighting to watch at the highest levels, even more entertaining to watch than any other 3-D fighting game at the highest levels.

Not to mention, it gets some of the best single trash talking people together. MvC2 is broken without a shadow of a doubt, however it's a tough fighting game to go from intermediate to veteran player, the gap between that is just gigantic. You can't spam in GG???? Seriously do you remember the older ones...Sol BadGuy...Dustloops anyone???? For crying out loud, Dustloops where stupid.

Btw, another notion, balance does not dictate how great a game will be or how much it will be played at the competetive levels, otherwise we'd all drop every fighting game and worship, eat, sleep and drink from VF4:EVO/FT, or what about Tekken5:DR regarded as the most balanced in the series...yet it is despised by many of the top players, as well as others, not to mention TTT was the most loved yet if you did not pick Mishimas, Ogres, or Changs you where pretty much done for at the highest levels.

MvC2 is great period, oh yes, on a side note, I've basically quit competetive gaming, eversince I held a tournament about a few months ago, and after that, I've pretty stopped. I'll do casuals but no more tournaments for me, I've been doing tournaments since 1991, no longer the same conviction, nor the time anymore.

If anyone ever heads up to Green Bay, hit me up, I'll be willing to do casuals, MvC2 is always a big yes :D, as always MSP for the win, although I'm starting to take a liking into MSS as well.

- Peace -
 

rockman2k1

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 22, 2005
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262
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Texas and New Mexico
Really? People actually hate on DR? I thought there was just some rumor somewhere about like JOP not liking T5 anymore for whatever reason but I was'nt too sure if it was true or not.

Anyways, back on Marvel2, MSS with drones is pretty fun. =D
 

Emblem Lord

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OneWingedSephiroth: Please don't insult me by calling me a joke. You don't even know me. Relax. Besides, a fighter as broken as MvC2 has no business being played seriously IMO. When you can demolish a whole team of 3 with one infinite combo, something is very, very wrong with the game.

The game itself has been proven to be degenerate. So in my eyes it shouldn't be played seriously. Tournies are about skill. They shouldn't be about spamming safe moves and unstoppable rush down strats, etc. Of course humans will find the most broken strats and then abuse it. People want to win and that's human nature. But the idea with a figthing game is to minimize the abusive strats and give everyone a little something that can abused to an extent. No game is perfect, but I commend the VF series and the GG series for making a serious effort with everyone of thier games in the quest for balance.

Capcom has made no such endeavors and as such they thier games suffer for it, in terms of gameplay. I never said MvC2 wasn't fun. That wasn't my point at all. My point is that it is most likely the most broken fighting game of all time.

BTW Sol's dustloops are gone now in GG slash. TYhat's my point. Sammy is fully aware of any concievable broekn strat due to thier extensive testing. Everytime a new GG is released it's even more balnced then the last. They actually give a **** about making a decent game that is more then just eye candy. But Capcom helped make Okami along with Clover so it's ok I guess. Wait a sec. Didn't Capcom disband Clover?

They are idiots.

Anyway. I'm done here. Respond to this post or not. Either way, I won't be posting here again.
 

rockman2k1

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Joined
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Texas and New Mexico
OneWingedSephiroth: Please don't insult me by calling me a joke. You don't even know me. Relax. Besides, a fighter as broken as MvC2 has no business being played seriously IMO. When you can demolish a whole team of 3 with one infinite combo, something is very, very wrong with the game.

The game itself has been proven to be degenerate. So in my eyes it shouldn't be played seriously. Tournies are about skill. They shouldn't be about spamming safe moves and unstoppable rush down strats, etc. Of course humans will find the most broken strats and then abuse it. People want to win and that's human nature. But the idea with a figthing game is to minimize the abusive strats and give everyone a little something that can abused to an extent. No game is perfect, but I commend the VF series and the GG series for making a serious effort with everyone of thier games in the quest for balance.
First of all, if exploiting bugs, glitches, infinites and what-not are not skillful, then would'nt being good at a game make it that much easier? Since when is it easy to pick up Yun in 3S, or using MSP very well agianst Santhrax in MvC2, or A-Blanka/Sakura/Bison in CvS2. I don't recall scrubs winning GGXX tourneys simply cause they abused Sol's Dustloop. While that may hold true for some games *cough*tekken5*cough* it's not true for all games, and I really find it hard to believe for Marvel2. And there are plenty of fighters that are incredibly broken, and as a result, they just simply do not get played. Remember how many people quit Tekken 5 after everything was found for Steve, remember Soul Calibur 3's scene the week after VC was figured out? Agian, it's all down to the simple point that people find it fun. People can find one of the most incredible fighters *EVER* fun for that very reason. But it being that broken also turns off a lot of people as well, you are one of them obviously. And that's fine.

Capcom has made no such endeavors and as such they thier games suffer for it, in terms of gameplay. I never said MvC2 wasn't fun. That wasn't my point at all. My point is that it is most likely the most broken fighting game of all time.
Capcom has usually released a newer version of their fighting games later on. But for whatever reason, people end up going back to the original ones. People did'nt play Alpha 2 Gold, people did'nt play Alpha 3 Upper, people did'nt play the newer version of 3S (without unblockables), people did'nt play CvS2 EO. They have always gone back to the original and much buggier (and usually worse balanced) version of the game, agian, for whatever reason.

Marvel2 can be the exception that the fact that Capcom was making a game on borrowed time. And the game is obviously rushed, the simple fact that Dr Doom's sweep is unblockable at times in proof enough that not a lot of time was put into the game. But if they took just a bit more time to produce the game and what-not, there may have been a chance that the game would not have been released in the first place.

And *YET* agian, it does'nt matter if the game is broken or not, if you are having fun even with all of those bugs, infinites, etc. etc. then it really does'nt matter. As a fan of the game, even if I get rushed down and lose after about 30 seconds into the game by Magneto, I just look for the fact of why I got hit, why I did'nt look for Mag's resets (which are needed since there are no practical true infinites) etc. etc. I can still enjoy the game and even play it at a competive level for the fact that I'm having fun.

If it's any consolation, at least the US is the only place that actually takes Marvel seriously. But then, look at the games that get played in the US at a really high level compared to say Japan or Korea. We just play a lot of random games. It's just a shame that other games like Guilty Gear or Virtua Fighter don't get played that much here in the US.
 

OneWingSephiroth

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That's a pretty weak reply, considering you play SSBM, where a certain space animal has infinites...:dizzy: . To me, that's just ludicrious, MvC2 is a great fighting game period, it was the most played fighting in the states for what...Four Straight Years, and even at evolution it gathers one of the highest competetions.

It should be played if 1. It's fun 2. It's competetive 3. Competetion is still strong, All of these MvC2 still has, so you are one of the small minority. Oh, and btw, if anyone knows Marvel now a days, it's not Rom's/Infinities that can kill you, for crying out loud, Cable doesn't use rom's to kill you, he uses Ahvb to kill you, Storm uses her vesatility and fly away to own you, Sentinel use fly and unfly combos to beat the snot out of you, even Magneto who has the most useful infinites, however his biggest potential comes from resets, not infinites.

Your right, in Slash, they don't have them, however to say that GG did not or does not have "spammable" attacks is just downright biased. Just remember how many games they had to make to get to Slash. Guilty Gear just doesn't cater to the players around here, I tried to get into it back during the Dustloop days, however what annoyed me the most was that there was more people who wanted to dress up as Sol and think Sol was cool, hot or whatever then actually wanting to play the game on the competetive level.


Tekken5 was horrible, not really because of Steve Fox, because if you look down memory lane, there where characters as broken as he was, and in some cases, even more so then him. In Tekken3, alot of characters where so strong, just look at the list...T3 Ogre, T3 Jin, T3 Heihachi, T3Law(Best Law ever), T3Ling(Best Ling ever), T3Paul(Imo, best Paul ever), T3Lei(Best Lei ever). Then you have TTT where if you didn't pick Mishima's, Ogres, or Changs you wouldn't place in the Top3 for sure, then you have Tekken4 where Jin Kazama is the most overpowered character in Tekken history.

It really wasn't character balance that was Tekken5's problem, it was the crush system, seriously, how in the hell does a +frame jab that I have a +frame advantage for, get stuffed out by a stupid crush attack that can literally lead to me losing 60%+ damage, for crying out loud, that's just horrible. Tekken5, even T5:DR is the ONLY Tekken game I've ever quit on the competetive level, I remember making a topic about it during the first month of Tekken5 5.0's release about how random it felt and how the crush system felt random at TZ, and I got flamed by everyone with people calling me a "scrub who didn't know anything about Tekken5", and behold...months after, even top players from not just the US but S.K. as well all started to feel the sameway...coincidence...I don't think so.


I completely agree with you Rockman, it's sad to not see more competetion for VF, and GG, however for VF it was their own fault, they didn't try to open up to the US market more, I remember VF2 it recieved alot of competetion, even I played it on the competetive level back in those days, however it just didn't get enough marketing here in the US, because after VF2, it seemed to die down alot, to me VF2 was the fighting game that seemed to have recieved the most competetion outside of Japan.

It seemed like Sega, or should I say they did just wanted to keep it's focus mainly in Japan...a big reason why only Japan seems to play VF alot and recieve the most competetion for it while other countries lack in VF.

Anyways, enough of GG, VF and Tekken, this is a MvC2 thread, and I'm tired of having to back up MvC2 because somebody has never experienced it on the high levels to understand why MvC2 is played the way it is, and just how hard it is to get to that level, I'm not even afraid to say that it's a more difficult game to learn than SSBM.

MvC2 even with it being insanely broken is by no means easy to become good at, period. Also...again, Balance does not make a fighting game great nor does it make it recieve more competetion on high levels of play.
 

Peaches

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
1,269
I know you aren't trying to say that GG is as broken as MvC2.

Because that would deserve a serious ROFLMAO!

Of course you can spam. But the game will punish you which is why most of the time you don't spam.

I never said the game doesn't have brokeness. My point was that low tiers do beat top tiers and it's hailed as the most balanced fighter in the market right now.
lol, from the rest of your comments it sounds like you're just throwing out theory fighter. Sol's dustloops may be gone in slash, but he's got stuff that's arguably just as bad, if not worse.

BTW Virtua Fighter is teh most balanced fighter.

edit: yeah Rockman, I did mean teams. There's a ton of variety you can achieve simply by changing a character in a team.
 

Marthmaster92

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
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Stuck between a parallel dimension of code and you
i'm sorry, but i'd have to say best 3-d fighter is Virtua Fighter 4 evolution. it's deceptively complex, and c'mon, it's just plain fun! the only thing that is sad is that it's not that popular, because people are more interested in Halo, Smash Brothers, and world of warcraft to name a few.
 

Zenith

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
906
Okay now that I've thought about it these thread are leaving the discussion on the main game and is channeling to other games, letz stay on subject, I don't want these threads closed.

Why not just join SRK to discuss w/ everyone.
 

Zenith

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
906
I prefer team Duc, I just played and beat Duc this week.
But I think team Duc gives you more chances, and it is easier to trap an opponent in knives, rather than orbs + doom, teleport slash, slash, slash, tiger xx orbs + doom teleport etc.

Everybody play Team ZRon (my invented team)
Omega/Sent/Capcom
I beat Duc w/ that team.
 

rockman2k1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
262
Location
Texas and New Mexico
Of course you have a good chance with that team, say Omega get's KO'ed right out, you still got Sentinal with Capcom! lol

Plus, Omega with Drones (or heck, even rocks) is a pretty tricky set-up, since cancelled Omega strikes are unpunishable.
 

OneWingSephiroth

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Messages
397
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Valinor
Omega is solid man, however I'll be awaiting the day they actually make Ryu very good in a vs game...for crying out loud, even when he was great in XvsSF2 he still wasn't all that good. I remember trying to use him in MvC2, because even though he wasn't all that bad in MvC1 he was strong hit for hit, which was still kinda nice, however in MvC2 he's so pathetically weak, and with no long range zoning, mid-range, or rushdown capabilities...he's just so useless...unless your fighting low-tier characters themselves.

Oh well, Zenith, cool that you played up against Duc, I really, really like how Duc plays, however JWong still wins me out, the guy is just insane, I guess my favorite players to watch are JWong, Yipes, Soo, Duc and Clock. I remember watching Soo back in the OG days of MvC2 and seeing him reset with Mags, I was saying to my buddies back then that this is how Mags should be played, I'm glad that today that's how he is played.
 

Zenith

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
906
I think Duc was going easy on me.
I also play team duc, so I was able to learn the timing of the knives trap, noticed a flaw in his timing and sj'ed out of it into a rope grab (i'm playin Omega).

From then on out my strategy was to do the following:
*Stay close, preventing him from successfully starting the trap
*Rope Grab him whenever he summons knives or sj's, drain his life, then pull him back down
*Save commando assists for punishing his Sent

Eventually I knocked out his Spiral, and luckily for me his Sent was still out 4 me to launch punish.

Next he was stuck w/ Cable + 5 supers (note: Cable + a lot of meter = AHVB ownage)
I was as scared as a white girl walking through the streets of Detroit.

What I figured I could do is:
*Stay close and force him to sj so I can pull him back down
*Stay offensive, stopping his ability to sj AHVB
*Build meter up for Sent if I'm knocked out

This is what happened:
*1st I drained enough life from him to make up for the chip I received from Spiral
*He AHVB'ed the crap out of Omega and Commando
*I pulled commando Out on purpose because I knew he would lose 4 supers killing them both
*my Sent came out w/ full meter
*I purposly fell into the unblockable so he would use up his last super
*kept him in lockdown and HSF'ed him to death

The crowd went wild.
Hard to believe I actually sacrificed characters and life to beat him.
I wish I recorded that match because it was crazy.
 

rockman2k1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
262
Location
Texas and New Mexico
Haha, speaking of Duc, they posted the old Texas Showdown 1 footage on Preppy's site and I remember my friend playing agianst him in the tourney and it got recorded. And Duc was going easy on him as well, Duc was using team Shoto back then.
 

Zenith

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
906
*Bump*

YEEAH BOY!!!
we finally got our tourney up and goin.

ALL SOCAL MvC2 PLAYERS COME!!!
 

Ken34

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
438
Location
Hinesville, GA
I think Duc was going easy on me.
I also play team duc, so I was able to learn the timing of the knives trap, noticed a flaw in his timing and sj'ed out of it into a rope grab (i'm playin Omega).

From then on out my strategy was to do the following:
*Stay close, preventing him from successfully starting the trap
*Rope Grab him whenever he summons knives or sj's, drain his life, then pull him back down
*Save commando assists for punishing his Sent

Eventually I knocked out his Spiral, and luckily for me his Sent was still out 4 me to launch punish.

Next he was stuck w/ Cable + 5 supers (note: Cable + a lot of meter = AHVB ownage)
I was as scared as a white girl walking through the streets of Detroit.

What I figured I could do is:
*Stay close and force him to sj so I can pull him back down
*Stay offensive, stopping his ability to sj AHVB
*Build meter up for Sent if I'm knocked out

This is what happened:
*1st I drained enough life from him to make up for the chip I received from Spiral
*He AHVB'ed the crap out of Omega and Commando
*I pulled commando Out on purpose because I knew he would lose 4 supers killing them both
*my Sent came out w/ full meter
*I purposly fell into the unblockable so he would use up his last super
*kept him in lockdown and HSF'ed him to death

The crowd went wild.
Hard to believe I actually sacrificed characters and life to beat him.
I wish I recorded that match because it was crazy.
good job!
I wish i could play some high level players so i can get better, no one really plays this game at a high level around my area in south jersey.


here are a few of my matches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJAXhHO_K_w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jEIrY5Ap9Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwCIF0Sz2VE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2skP-uTbrOQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irXxFf9dBXw
 

Zenith

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
906
2day Duc came again and kicked my ***.

Siince that match I won was our last match, he demanded I play the same team. He went total beast on me, he played me like I was Justin Wong or somtin. He kicked my teams ***, destroyed my MSP and Matrix, then humiliated me when I was playing team Duc.
I was very very sad, in none of those matches did I even kill 1 of his characters.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and 20 minutes later he killed me w/ Team Shoto, I just had to quit right there.
 
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