DariusM27
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 5, 2015
- Messages
- 518
It's bothering me how over hyped Marth is in the Smash4 community lately. I think Marth is lower in the tier list than a lot of people do because of several challenges he has, but I admit that most people are justified in thinking that he is top tier. I'm not saying he isn't top 10 - 15. He probably is somewhere around there. But only in the very best of hands - imo. In most player's hands, he is...not.
Marth weakness
1. Lack of throw follow ups on most characters and most percents
2. Not a safe neutral at all. One wiffed move usually means taking several consecutive punish hits.
3. Predictable, exploitable approach game. No approach gimmicks like monkey flip or boost kick.
4. He has the longest (worst) dash length, meaning running is initially unsafe as Marth because it takes longer to run directly into shield. That is a very big weakness in a game where mobility and shield are so important.
5. Except Ganondorf, Ike, and Jigglypuff, he is the next slowest non projectile character in the game. (And both Ganon and Ike have faster movement options) - He is either outspaced with projectiles or outclassed in terms of speed and frame data, or both.
This makes applying offensive pressure in neutral very difficult for Marth - less easy than it is for most characters. He then has to rely on making hard reads consistently and ends up needing to use a more defensive and reactive neutral game.
His fair and nair both come out fast, but they aren't spammable, and puts him in a very disadvantageous if they wiff - (Like how Mr E kept landing into fair or nair on Nairo's Bowser/shield, and still got bodied for it, even though he spaced it out really far)
6. He has some of the worst risk - reward ratio in the game, and the highest skill cap, because it is so difficult to land the tippers consistently.
The Aerial tippers got buffed and are easier to land now, but still difficult overall. This means that his KO power is absolute garbage unless you completely outclass your opponent in skill.
Edits -
7.His ability to land safely is pretty terrible, and it has been notoriously since game's launch. (Aka Mr E getting 3-0d by Nairo just simply grabbing him once and never letting him land safely again.)
8. His air speed is crap slow compared to many high tiers (Diddy, Sheik, Zss). This makes approaching and attacking from full hops fast fall not a good approach at all.
9. Marth's auto-cancel windows are horrendously nerfed and bad.
You have to be one of the best players in the world to make Marth work with any level of consistency. Not even ZeRo or Mr R are confident in their ability to make Marth work consistently, and they've said on several occasions that they love the character and would enjoy using him if they could.
But MkLeo makes him work, because he uses pivoting and spacing tools on a whole level beyond the current meta.
Anyway, I just wrote this up real quick. If I got anything wrong, let me know and I'll correct/edit it. Feel free to correct any misconceptions or add something left out. I think it is an interesting topic, particularly now after Leo's recent win (In the same tourny that Mr E "ZeRo's - best Marth" drowned in pools) and considering how very poor Marth's placement was from the beginning of Smash4.
Marth has many strengths, but like I said, they only work consistently in the best player's hands - imo.
Marth weakness
1. Lack of throw follow ups on most characters and most percents
2. Not a safe neutral at all. One wiffed move usually means taking several consecutive punish hits.
3. Predictable, exploitable approach game. No approach gimmicks like monkey flip or boost kick.
4. He has the longest (worst) dash length, meaning running is initially unsafe as Marth because it takes longer to run directly into shield. That is a very big weakness in a game where mobility and shield are so important.
5. Except Ganondorf, Ike, and Jigglypuff, he is the next slowest non projectile character in the game. (And both Ganon and Ike have faster movement options) - He is either outspaced with projectiles or outclassed in terms of speed and frame data, or both.
This makes applying offensive pressure in neutral very difficult for Marth - less easy than it is for most characters. He then has to rely on making hard reads consistently and ends up needing to use a more defensive and reactive neutral game.
His fair and nair both come out fast, but they aren't spammable, and puts him in a very disadvantageous if they wiff - (Like how Mr E kept landing into fair or nair on Nairo's Bowser/shield, and still got bodied for it, even though he spaced it out really far)
6. He has some of the worst risk - reward ratio in the game, and the highest skill cap, because it is so difficult to land the tippers consistently.
The Aerial tippers got buffed and are easier to land now, but still difficult overall. This means that his KO power is absolute garbage unless you completely outclass your opponent in skill.
Edits -
7.His ability to land safely is pretty terrible, and it has been notoriously since game's launch. (Aka Mr E getting 3-0d by Nairo just simply grabbing him once and never letting him land safely again.)
8. His air speed is crap slow compared to many high tiers (Diddy, Sheik, Zss). This makes approaching and attacking from full hops fast fall not a good approach at all.
9. Marth's auto-cancel windows are horrendously nerfed and bad.
You have to be one of the best players in the world to make Marth work with any level of consistency. Not even ZeRo or Mr R are confident in their ability to make Marth work consistently, and they've said on several occasions that they love the character and would enjoy using him if they could.
But MkLeo makes him work, because he uses pivoting and spacing tools on a whole level beyond the current meta.
Anyway, I just wrote this up real quick. If I got anything wrong, let me know and I'll correct/edit it. Feel free to correct any misconceptions or add something left out. I think it is an interesting topic, particularly now after Leo's recent win (In the same tourny that Mr E "ZeRo's - best Marth" drowned in pools) and considering how very poor Marth's placement was from the beginning of Smash4.
Marth has many strengths, but like I said, they only work consistently in the best player's hands - imo.
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