Marth's Dair a bit underated?

[skip430]

I was fooling around with marth in training mode and vs a lv 1 cpu and I noticed at higher percents (80ish and above) that it is very easy to spike an opponent to their death even while on the stage! This might be common knowledge and if so, I apologize. But in most vids I see of Marth his Dair is used very little (rightly so in most cases).

But that is what could make it effective!

If an opponent is near the edge and at 80% damage or higher if they jump and a Marth shffls a Dair they will go to their death wondering what happened. I have not tried this out on a human yet, so I could be completely wrong, but on a lv 9 cpu ( I know its a cpu not a human, but it is better than a lv 1 cpu) whenever those conditions were met and I jumped, the cpu jumped to attack me and I would Bair, and even though we were on stage and not on the very edge of the stage, they would go to the side and to their death.

Since alot of higher tier characters' (Shiek, Falco, Fox, etc) use arial moves over ground moves (especially while the opponent is in the air) If those conditions were met and Marth did a normal jump or short hopped jump there is a good chance those higher tier character would jump to attack with an arial. If the marth immediately Bairs, the opponent will be taken by complete surprise, especially since NO ONE does this.

Now, it might be this isn't done because it does not work (or rarely works) but I think the sheer fact that it IS NOT ever done that it will work. Especially since people dont associate being meteor smashed to their death while on stage, and because most people dont do a full jump, the opponent will think you made a mistake (Marth doesnt approach from directly above so people would think you made a mistake).

Know I know it could be because I got lucky a few times or because I was against the computer, but do you think this could be implemeted into Marth's game?

 

[Cactuar]

I can't tell if this post is serious.

I will continue to laugh either way.

 

[Keitaro]

I'm kinda lost. Marth's Dair isn't underated last time I checked. Most pro battles with Marth will have at least one Dair move for a kill. I also don't understand how Bair's got into the convo.

Honestly you should try this on humans first cause I know for a fact when I play computers and I'm near the edge that if I jump, wait a sec, then Dair with Marth, I'll probably send them to their death cause computers are pretty readable in this game.

 

[slikvik]

so...um, close thread?

 

[RT]

Ken Combo much?

Up smash is probably the least used move.

 

[skip430]

This was actually a serious, albeit shaky thread. I just noticed that Marths Dair could kill oponents on the stage while in the air, and that no one uses this, so it might be a good surprise attack.

I apologize if this thread was pointless or simply stupid, Mods, feel free to close this thread at any time.

 

[slikvik]

what u are referring to is extremely situational, and everyone already know about it

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

>_>. . . . .

Play more tournaments please.

 

[RT]

This was actually a serious, albeit shaky thread. I just noticed that Marths Dair could kill oponents on the stage while in the air, and that no one uses this, so it might be a good surprise attack.

Once again, Ken Combo much? F-air->F-air->D-air. It was popularized by, uh...Ken? Seriously, if you've never seen someone at least try it until recently, then you need to find new people to play against. It's not Marth's only killing move, but you should have seen this attempted by now.

Just search on Youtube and you can find of plenty videos. <_<

 

[AS Money]

Ken Combo much?

Up smash is probably the least used move.

i use the up smash a lot sometimes when people are platform camping on DL64 since only a couple of moves hit up there and i dont feel like doing an arial but i think the up smash is underated for how good it can hit

also i suck so what do i know

 

[skip430]

I know about the Ken combo and all of that stuff, you guys are missing the key point.
Ken combo is used when someone is OFF the stage.

What I'm saying is that you can kill people with Marth's Dair while still ON the stage.

There fore you dont have to start the combo (when someone is being Fair'd by Marth off the stage they pretty much know they will be Dair'd)

But since nobody Dairs to kill while ON (key word being on) the stage it might possible be a good suprise kill.

Again I could be wrong but you guys are misinterpreting what I said, so I wanted to set it straight.

 

[Keitaro]

Are you saying that the person is standing on the stage and is hit by a Dair, or that the person jumps and is then hit by the Dair.

My friend was playing Samus and was standing near the edge and I Dair him to death somehow followed by unlimited laughter. Is that what your talking about?

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Just..just don't bother as people at this level can't be helped .....I cry alittle each time I see a thread like this in the marth boards...

 

[LaserBust]

Depending on where you hit with the Dair changes their trajectory. So hitting with the very edge of the blade will not only spike but hit em with a good solid Diagnol angle. Whislt knowing that you could potentialy spike some1 just above a pokemon stadium platform which is what he means by spikin OVER the stage. He also means most ppl just Ken Combo untill their completly past the stage THEN attempt the Dair.. It isin't entirely wrong but it isin't entirely incorrect, like I Ken over the stage all the time =p. But you dont see a Ken over the stage quite as often. Its known you could get a good diagnol angle from a Dair and KO over the stage but nj pickin it up yurself, make some use of it..

EDIT - Alot of the newer or mayb veterans smashers consider a spike a move that sends yur oppenent 90 degrees downward, when in fact it can send yur oppenent 45 degrees downward instead. I guess your saying not many ppl abuse that characestic.
God i cant spell..

 

[skip430]

Thats exactly what I am saying LaserBurst. Thank you for understanding and interpreting.

To thebluedeath1000: What the hell is your problem? I realize that I am a noob and that you are alot better than me with Marth but that does not give you the right to be an *******. I made a simple thread to discuss Marth's Dair and you come and insult me when I am doing, nor attempting, any harm. Does it give you pleasure to elevate yourself at other's expense?
I have no ill will towards you (I've seen your other posts, you are an intelligent poster) but get off your high horse and discuss the topic like an adult (or at least someone over the age of 11). I hope you this will not start a flame war, I hope you will take what I say into consideration and refrain from making overly agressive and mean posts. If what I said aggrevates you, simply don't post (like the saying "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all).

 

[darknesszero]

Hmm...oh!

A shffl'd dair on the edge does work, since due to the angle that the opponent can be spiked down, as LaserBust stated. Seems a bit risky for a n00b like me, but it's worth a try!

As for putting this in Marth's game, this could work, but won't it be easily countered by Up+Bs that are executed near the ledge? If so, I'd have to guess that this requires even more precise timing.

Then again, what's a n00b to say? Might as well try it. Thanks for the find!

 

[thebluedeath1000]

This is so sad lol...

Most, if not all..or so I thought, marth players know this.

 

[QDVS]

LMAO @ Cactuar I thought the same thing after reading the first paragraph or two...then I stopped reading!!!

>_<

 

[skip430]

Well sorry thebluedeath1000, I did not know so I guess I am the ultimate Marth n00b, so get over that I didn't know everyone else knew and stop being so GD self-righteous.

To QDVS: A joke topic this might seem, but I seriously did not know this was common knowledge, because no one seems to do it. Did you stop reading because you were laughing or because you had something beneficial to post, I'm assuming the former.

So someone please cure my n00biness (unless you just want to keep laughing) why couldn't a Dair against someone 80-100% damage work as a surprise kill? I've seen that it can kill, and since its never done, it would be surprising. Please inform me.

(As *****y as my posting seems I really don't want to make enemies, I just want to find out why this would be a bad move in that type of situation).

 

[Hax]

funny stuff.

 

[QDVS]

I stopped because, I realized it was already stuff I knew, then I saw Cactuar's post and agreed so I posted...yes this is common knowledge!!!

I'm surprised you haven't seen this in any vids...

Oh and don't worry, I don't dislike you!!!

 

[skip430]

oh ok, well then could someone post a video link of this being done (dair death on stage) or something close to it? thx

 

[~Tac~]

This is so sad lol...

Most, if not all..or so I thought, marth players know this.

I get what you're saying, but think about it a bit more closely. Who actually thinks about shffling a Dair as an on-edge edgeguard? Unsurprisingly i've seen more and more Marth users doing more CC/d-tilt as an edgeguard against most. Or simply mid-air edgeguarding with LH/Bair.
But otherwise..most Marth users should know this.

 

[ArcNatural]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WowKCUQX4v4&mode

Approximately 1:34 I believe is the downair combination that you think no one does.

Tmx, I do not think skip is referring to edgegaurding by dairing on the stage. If he seriously believes no one does that I don't know what to say, I know Azen does that in practically every video set he is in. I could find another video for that if I wanted to. I know I do it more often than i should as well. I've lately stopped doing ledgeguard on the stage downair simply because the dair pretty easy to tech(at least for my brother). Ledgehopped dairs are much better in that situation since you dair away from the stage.

 

[Nightblade]

I think that's the one he's talking about. Hitting someone with a dair while they are standing on the ground creates quite a bit of hit lag for them, allowing for an easy finisher. I've only used it once as it is situational and missing the l-cancel will get you smacked. Personally, I think it is one of those moves like the usmash, dsmash, or counter that using once or twice can be very effective at taking your opponent by surprise

EDIT:

Bluedeath, it is people like you who kill the new players in the community. If you're so disgusted, think back to when you played like crap and didn't know anything. Or, you could shut your trap, because it does no one any good for you to say stuff like that. Skip is exactly right, jump off your high ****ing horse, because you're acting like a complete douchebag.

Helping new players > insulting new players.

 

[flipkid]

skip... yeah this is well known.. but it depends on a few things.. firstly the guy has to be all the way out on the edge... secondly it depends on di.. the computer is much easier to spike at an angle than real people...

anyway.. an application of this i found a bit more useful... you can shuffl a dair as a ledge guard if someone is one the ledge and he does not roll up or i guess jump up (it may or may not spike in that case) you have a good few frames to spike him... im sure you guys all look for the fsmash to guys on the ledge or coming off the ledge but 1. it doesnt always come out fast enough and 2. it doesnt always kill 3. you can do this out of shield of course.. granted it's hard to hit and situational at best but... you can also camp the edge in shield and if they try to roll up you get a free grab at least

i did this to a falcon/gannon who ended up winning the tourney... twice...pissed him off to no end

ps. seriously guys wtf is this bs.. does it make you all feel better to make fun of people who ask questions on a message board that may or may not be worse at this video game than you?

pss the combo on the m2k pc vid at 134 isnt what hes talking bout

 

[thebluedeath1000]

NightBlade, No, I help people who help themselves, not beginners who came in here trying to explain their viewpoints. I'm one of the few people trying to keep this board from becoming like the roy boards.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Well sorry thebluedeath1000, I did not know so I guess I am the ultimate Marth n00b, so get over that I didn't know everyone else knew and stop being so GD self-righteous.

To QDVS: A joke topic this might seem, but I seriously did not know this was common knowledge, because no one seems to do it. Did you stop reading because you were laughing or because you had something beneficial to post, I'm assuming the former.

So someone please cure my n00biness (unless you just want to keep laughing) why couldn't a Dair against someone 80-100% damage work as a surprise kill? I've seen that it can kill, and since its never done, it would be surprising. Please inform me.

(As *****y as my posting seems I really don't want to make enemies, I just want to find out why this would be a bad move in that type of situation).

Just something.

You would have know if this was common knowledge or not if you would look through the guides and read.It's very simple.

 

[Giggidax]

so ur saying u figured out marths dair and spike opponents in the air? nice find, but ur opponent could possibly smash DI > wall tech. but marths spike is so strong, its pretty hard to DI it.

and also, at mid to higher %'s if u land a dair on an opponent on the ground, it can pop them up in the air and give u a chance to tipper fsmash them. but dair is so laggy i hate using it for things other than spiking

 

[TedBoosley]

Thats exactly what I am saying LaserBurst. Thank you for understanding and interpreting.

To thebluedeath1000: What the hell is your problem? I realize that I am a noob and that you are alot better than me with Marth but that does not give you the right to be an *******. I made a simple thread to discuss Marth's Dair and you come and insult me when I am doing, nor attempting, any harm. Does it give you pleasure to elevate yourself at other's expense?
I have no ill will towards you (I've seen your other posts, you are an intelligent poster) but get off your high horse and discuss the topic like an adult (or at least someone over the age of 11). I hope you this will not start a flame war, I hope you will take what I say into consideration and refrain from making overly agressive and mean posts. If what I said aggrevates you, simply don't post (like the saying "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all).

You have to realize that we Smashers are extremely elitist and arrogant, especially when it comes to new players who don't do their research before posting. People spike from the stage with angled trejectories all the time in high level play.

 

[Cookies 'n' Milk]

I suppose that could work, and it would definitely take me by suprise if used against me, but as my descriptions says i am a n00b.

I think people would quickly realize the fact that this works though and avoid these situations.
So this might work once on a person but then being a person, not a cpu, it probably wouldn't work again.

Hope this helped.

Have a nice day!
~Cookie

 

[Miharu]

Well sorry thebluedeath1000, I did not know so I guess I am the ultimate Marth n00b, so get over that I didn't know everyone else knew and stop being so GD self-righteous.

To QDVS: A joke topic this might seem, but I seriously did not know this was common knowledge, because no one seems to do it. Did you stop reading because you were laughing or because you had something beneficial to post, I'm assuming the former.

So someone please cure my n00biness (unless you just want to keep laughing) why couldn't a Dair against someone 80-100% damage work as a surprise kill? I've seen that it can kill, and since its never done, it would be surprising. Please inform me.

(As *****y as my posting seems I really don't want to make enemies, I just want to find out why this would be a bad move in that type of situation).

It's reliant on bad DI, idiotic gameplay, and is simply too situational for it to work. They have to be jumping right into your dair, since isn't too likely to happen, and it has to be at just the right angle as well. Also, if you screw up (which you probably will), you'll get severely punished for it.

Wonder why people always combo into dair?

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Thanks hydro kirby for explaining exactly what I acted the way I did.
I'm not self righteous, I just hate really people that try to talk about something "new" they find..and they aren't in competitive play what so ever.