Marth Chainthrow Specifics

[Flarefox]

Before I begin, please don't tell me to use the search function. I've used it for almost half an hour now, and I'm not satisfied with what I've found thus far. Maybe I'm entering inaccurate keywords (just please post any links that will answer my questions).

I'm interested in the details of Marths chaingrabs. Marth can repeat forward throws on floaties, but these aren't reliable since DI'ing away solves this problem (and lots of other combos starting with fthrow on floaties). Marth can sometimes chain upthrows on Capt. Falcon, but this it doesn't last very long and isn't reliable because Falcon's weight lags Marth's upthrow. Can Falcon be chainthrown at all by Marth if he DI's the upthrow correctly? Specific information please.

What I'm mainly interested in discussing is Marth Uthrow vs. Fox and Uthrow vs. Falco. I know that the % ranges for these throws are not identical because Fox and Falco have different weights and falling speeds. Fox is quite lighter than Falco, and Fox accelerates to his top falling speed much faster than Falco. Falco's top falling speed is actually a bit faster than foxes, however, if I remember correctly.

I know that in general, Marth can often chaingrab fox and falco from 0% to death if he follows the DI correctly and ends with a tipper somewhere around 60-70%. He can also throw in uptilt variations that lead back into upthrows until around 30%. I have also heard people say that Fox and Falco can escape the chaingrab at certain early-mid %s by DI'ing up and shining quickly or jumping out. I haven't seen this happen very often, but I also am not an expert on this chainthrow game.

If any of you have more information on this subject, please contribute or correct me. I'm hoping that Mew2King will post here, or some other Marth that has the exact percentage ranges memorized against fox and falco with upthrow.

Edit: I'm currently collecting some interesting data in Action Replay regarding Marth's throws.

 

[3GOD]

Yeah, it would be nice to have a definitive list of data (and stickied). I searched for this before and also came up with nothing.

I think you can up-throw Fox to about 22% with any DI...at which point, you'll have to pivot a grab if they don't DI. Maybe I'll be able to check out some of this with AR myself. If you would take Fox, I'll take Falco and see what I can figure out. Sound like a plan? Or if you want, you can just do all the data yourself .

Also, supposedly, Marth can chain any character with f-throw until 7% or so. This can be good for getting them close to the edge and then f-throw to a pivoted tipper.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Yeah, it would be nice to have a definitive list of data (and stickied). I searched for this before and also came up with nothing.

I think you can up-throw Fox to about 22% with any DI...at which point, you'll have to pivot a grab if they don't DI. Maybe I'll be able to check out some of this with AR myself. If you would take Fox, I'll take Falco and see what I can figure out. Sound like a plan? Or if you want, you can just do all the data yourself .

Also, supposedly, Marth can chain any character with f-throw until 7% or so. This can be good for getting them close to the edge and then f-throw to a pivoted tipper.

I'll see if I can compile some statistics for this soon. I know what works against fox... I thought it was the same for falco, but I'll have to test things out. Husband should be at my tournament this Saturday, so I'll ask him.

 

[Flarefox]

I worked on it for a while yesterday night, but I won't have all that much time on my hands. If anyone can help out, that is much appreciated. The more verification we get, the better as well.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Edit edit edit: yes, there are differences between fox and falco, which are mentioned in M2K's mini-guide below.

They can shine at 20% to get out of the chaingrab. Easy solution: up tilt and hope the di works out for another grab. Best solution: pivot grab, or as Husband says "dash into DA dash grab". You could also fthrow or dthrow to fsmash if they miss the tech or tech chase.

Alright, I also talked with M2K. He has already posted this information elsewhere on smashboards, but here it is again:

0-6 you can F Throw without them falling over, but unless they don't DI into you, they can either jab/sidestep/shine you before you regrab them

you can CG fox at 0, so do that usually, CG to 16, and after 16 look for forward DI; if they DI forward above 16% then you have to either walk forward or dash forward in order to regrab them

If you're lazy like Husband, or even me sometimes, you can up tilt after 16% to get guaranteed damage + a possible tech chase, (often with a dash attack where they land cuz they often won't tech)

or you can just down throw F smash tipper them randomly and they usually wont tech

16+ for forward DI
20+ for no DI
28+ for back DI

for up tilts, start them at about 30% or really really close to 30%, is usually best.

If they don't DI, reverse up tilt is recommended usually cuz it's harder for them to DI out of

if they DI forward above 35%, you need to walk forward in order to up tilt them again

35%+ for forward DI
50%+ for back DI

After up tilts, you can either regrab them or do an uair, react properly to the situation

for up throw F smash, 60% is the best time to do it, but 50 and 70 work too, as well as various other %s

if they don't DI at 60%, walk forward slightly, and reverse C-stick F smash tipper them

There are tons more things than what I'm telling you now, however these are the basics that you should all master

FOR FALCO, the %s for no DI are 25%, back DI 31%

for up tilts 42% forward DI 54% back DI

and if falco DIs back at 0% you cant regrab him he will land first

 

[soap]

i never seem to be able to end in a tipper, i always just end up uairing them a hundred times, though i just started ending in full jump uair to double jump reverse dolphin slash

 

[Mew2King]

WTF there is a difference with fox and falco did you not read it, the majority of the top part of that thing you copy pasted was about Fox, then when i said FOR FALCO near the bottom, that explained the differences with Falco.

Edit - it is similar but generally Falcos stuff is at a bit higher %ages than Fox for the most part, do some experimenting yourself and you'll see different variations of what you can do.

 

[Cactuar]

Look at Mew2King in all his furious chaingrabbing passion.

What a ***.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

WTF there is a difference with fox and falco did you not read it, the majority of the top part of that thing you copy pasted was about Fox, then when i said FOR FALCO near the bottom, that explained the differences with Falco.

Edit - it is similar but generally Falcos stuff is at a bit higher %ages than Fox for the most part, do some experimenting yourself and you'll see different variations of what you can do.

I'm sorry, I hadn't edited it from after my conversation with you, that was after what Husband said.

However, since there are differences, is it both fox and falco that can shine at 20%, or just fox?

 

[Savedge]

falco shine 25% no DI

fox shine 20% no DI

edit - this is m2k

 

[SoraMar]

meh, ive never seen the point, marth is dominate anyways

 

[Flarefox]

meh, ive never seen the point, marth is dominate anyways

This guy has a good point, guys. Verrrrry good point!

 

[Life Ruiner]

WTF there is a difference with fox and falco did you not read it, the majority of the top part of that thing you copy pasted was about Fox, then when i said FOR FALCO near the bottom, that explained the differences with Falco.

Edit - it is similar but generally Falcos stuff is at a bit higher %ages than Fox for the most part, do some experimenting yourself and you'll see different variations of what you can do.

Lol so angry.

 

[knightpraetor]

what about jump outs? what percentages can they do that?

anyways, oftentimes i get annoyed cause they DI in such a way that i won't tipper if i fsmash..so i'm tempted to just regrab them or walk forward and uptilt...however i miss the walk to uptilt a lot so i've been regrabbing..that's why i'm curious as to when they can jump out before the grab hits..shines usually don't matter if you grab after the shine while they di away or in etc.

also..for tipping..i guess to tip at 50ish you fsmash earlier? while at 70% you fsmash later? or is it the other way around

 

[ArcNatural]

If they DI away from you anytime between approximately 50-75% they can not jump out before you can regrab or Fsmash them. Which is why a majority of better Fox players will either not DI at all or very slightly to force you to actually combo them into a tipper or an edgegaurd. The can jump out much earlier if they don't DI or DI up which providing you don't pivot grab correctly or uptilt can be approximately 23% and higher.

As for tipping at percentages. I really don't see why you would ask that question. You just need to time it correctly regardless. Every throw the higher % they are the further out they go so you have to wait a little longer for them to fall into tipper range. I don't know how you could get confused on something like that. I think you doubt your own thinking too much.

 

[knightpraetor]

lol, i doubt everything i think...have you ever recorded yourself? and then compared yourself to someone really good? it's painful;p