Marth beginner, tips?(videos)

[ShoryuSwordsman]

just a marth noob here, tryna get better, just started playin marth about a month ago. please flame if u must

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTFpIhr79Bo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yA-EiUhQ5I

P.s. emblem lord, and lk this is b4 u guys gave me tips yesterday at the biweekly so dont think i havent put them into play

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Please for the love of smash, never do that many stocks again, do 4 or lower..I have dial up. I only watched the first one.

First, good job for only playing a month! now for the bad...
Against samus, if she bomb jumps very close to the edge on her recovery, give her a b-air..don't just stand there.

You can wavedash as I seen once, use it, you mostly ran as your approach, Wavedash!! Less dash attacks, wavedashing allows movement and attacking!
I can't say it enough..wavedash your attacks! it makes your range godly and allows great combos.

Be sure to l-cancel and use more air attacks, you let marth's airgame mostly go un-used.

Less over b attacks, use it as a surprise or something odd to throw at them..not over and over.

You can swat her missles down you know, basicly any attack can destroy an oncoming missle.

Grab more, marth's grabgame is too good not to be used.

You probably noticed that when your foe gets high damage, you can no longer combo them, marth really needs to kill at lower damages to keep his game up, combo f-airs into f-smashes or ken combo him.

The smash lacked the ability to sweetspot, you should have ruled him for that due to marth's f-smash.

When you are edgehogging, you can attack directly from that you realize, so start ledgehopping d-airs to spike people recovering before you.

Learn to mindgame..don't just attack them swinging like you are Conan, learn to trick your foe.

Samus
Crouch Cancel more!!!!!!!! Your best tool with her. You can counterattack nearly everything with the d-tilt.

In air, when being combo-ed, send out that sex kick, it will get them off of you.

Learn to missle cancel and l-cancel more...use wavedashing as well!

Mindgame your approaches more..especially involving the charge beam

Be careful of your bombjumping..an experienced person will take advantage of you while you bombjump too closer to stage.

Hope the information helps.

 

[I.B]

Not bad, not bad. I'm not an expert on Marth vs Samus match-ups, but try more SHFFL approaches. Also, play with 4-stock instead of 6. Those matches were too long.

Do you have any videos of your Marth up against a different character? It would help if you want people to give you more helpful advice.

 

[ShoryuSwordsman]

thanks, and no, dont have any other vids up just yet, my friend'll be posting sum vids of me against a sheik player sometime next week tho

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Upload more matches

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

You have a lot of technical work to do. Fix that and you'll be a lot better. Besides that, you prettymuch camped with marth. Be more aggressive; don't give samus any space. Improve on every technical aspect of your game, cause they all have room for improvement.

 

[Ken34]

Samus
Crouch Cancel more!!!!!!!! Your best tool with her. You can counterattack nearly everything with the d-tilt.

In air, when being combo-ed, send out that sex kick, it will get them off of you.

Learn to missle cancel and l-cancel more...use wavedashing as well!

Mindgame your approaches more..especially involving the charge beam

Be careful of your bombjumping..an experienced person will take advantage of you while you bombjump too closer to stage.

Hope the information helps.

I usually do abuse crouch cancel, but marth's down tilt is nasty, lol.
ive been abusing that sex kick when being sent into the air more recently.
i do have to get more use to missle cancelling and l-cancelling during a match, i can do it in trianing mode no problem. i do utilize wavedashing though.
I do agree with the mindgame approach a whole lot, since im fairly new to this game, ive just had frustration with execution(i hate gamecube controller) , so mind games prolly wont be too great on my part till execution becomes natural during matches.
thanks for the tips.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

welcome, you wavedashed yes but use it more like a marth would, wavedash forward and sucker punch them more or wavedash back and send a blast in their face. A great move for samus would be d-air then d-smash..you have to l cancel it of course but it works wonders.

 

[Ken34]

welcome, you wavedashed yes but use it more like a marth would, wavedash forward and sucker punch them more or wavedash back and send a blast in their face. A great move for samus would be d-air then d-smash..you have to l cancel it of course but it works wonders.

yea, ive seen vids of wes using that d-air, im guessing i have to SH it, correct?

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I'd say so. If you've read all the faqs about samus and all the advanced techs she can do, you'll do fine in improvement.

 

[JesiahTEG]

You have a lot of technical work to do. Fix that and you'll be a lot better. Besides that, you prettymuch camped with marth. Be more aggressive; don't give samus any space.

True words, stay close to samus. But, UMBC, don't have him thinking he should play aggressive against every character.

 

[~Tac~]

just a marth noob here, tryna get better, just started playin marth about a month ago. please flame if u must

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTFpIhr79Bo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yA-EiUhQ5I

P.s. emblem lord, and lk this is b4 u guys gave me tips yesterday at the biweekly so dont think i havent put them into play

Wow. Major props..I mean it. You definitly are not a newb. In any way. You're definitly a veteran at best, and all that skill in one month of Marth...props.

Anyway.
~Use the invincibility frames on the ledge to your advantage.
~Foxtrot and dash a bit more to catch them offguard.
~Don't "walk" in close proximity. A nicely aimed projectile will go up your nose. And their dash will most likely lead your lifeless body into a combo target.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

True words, stay close to samus. But, UMBC, don't have him thinking he should play aggressive against every character.

True. What Shoryu will find is each character matchup is different for marth. You'll need to change your style to deal with each matchup. Marth takes quite a while to master.

 

[ShoryuSwordsman]

True. What Shoryu will find is each character matchup is different for marth. You'll need to change your style to deal with each matchup. Marth takes quite a while to master.

yea, that becomes more and more evident every time i play. i'm a bit more careful with samus since those bombs, as you saw in one of the vids, can screw up my flow and turn the tables. against my friend who plays sheik, it's basically a race to see who gets the first grab, cuz they're likely to take the first stock. but i digress. i kno one thing is that i need to take more shffl approaches. i wasnt really thinkin about it, but after watching lord knight and emblem lord play, which was the day after we recorded these, i've seen personally how necessary shffling, especially fairs, as well as the uptilt are. btw, i did record those matches vs sheik, but they werent gud enuff imo, we were both makin too many careless mistakes, cuz i've been experimentin with other edge guard options, specifically neutral b

 

[AcidJazz]

Don't get too antsy in your pantsy with wave dashing imho. While it has its purpose, I find dash dancing significantly faster, a LOT easier to implement and keeps your opponent guessing.

You need to be in the air more. shuffle shuffle shuffle Quit dash attacking. Just get rid of that move completely. Just pretend you're not allowed to do it. I only watched a bit of it, but don't spam your forward smashes too much. try as hard as you can to only forward smash gauranteed attacks. Unfortunately, that's a lot easier said than done. Your main goal with marth is to get people in the air.

Something you really need to do (i'm not sure if you do) is use the CStick for all aerial attacks (well of course not neutral).

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm just going to post what I wrote down in my notebook as watch your vid. I'm going to repeat myself alot because you amde alot of the same mistakes. But it will let you know just how much you did these things and that they really need improvement.

Video 1

Don't be afraid of missiles so much. Fair right through them.

More fair combos.

Wave dash from your shield to punish Samus when you block a smash attack.

Don't use Dancing Blade too much vs her. It's like begging her to **** you with CC dsmash.

00:05 - You jumped to avoid a missile. Why? You are Marth. You have a sword. Marth ***** missiles for free.

00:09- You did a d-tilt to dash attack. eh. That dash attack could have been a grab.

Less dash attacks more grabs. Dash attack is ok, but not against Samus so much. You need to grab more.

More dash dancing. You didn't do enough of that.

After a d-tilt Marth ahs IASA frames as soon as he pulls his sword back. So don't just sit there. Do something. Run at her and grab. Dash dance. Just do something.

You stayed on the ground alot. Don't be afraid to get in her face.

Pressure Samus more! Know your spacing. Close enough so it isn't safe for her to spam missiles, but far enough so you can quickly react to her actions and evade her attacks.

Stop runing into bombs so much. You can slice through them.

Be more aggressive vs Samus.

Utilt works wonders vs Samus and floaties. Use it.

Too much fsmash spam. You have to cut back on that.

DI better. Against attacks that send you horizontally DI up and towards the stage. Against attacks that send you vertically DI completely to the right or the left.

She jumped over you a few times and you did nothing. Get your as* in gear and chase that Chozo suit wearing sl*t down!

3:53 - You got hit witha missile when you could have sliced through it.

4:13 - Both of you went into a street brawl type off fight. You still didn't grab. ARGH!!!!

4:29 - Did you actually try to spot dodge a bomb? lol. And then Samus blasted you in the face. Good sh*t Ken34. lmao

Work on your spacing with that sword. Alot of those fsmashes could have been tippers.

Video 2

Stop letting missiles hit you all the time.

You started grabbing, but your follow up is lacking. Chase her with SH fairs.

At one point you actually landed from the air and just sat there crouching while a missile rearranged your face. ;>_>

Don't do two hits on your opponent when they have low damage. They will just get out of your grab.

Oh and BTW, Lord Knight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emblem Lord.

Truth.

 

[ShoryuSwordsman]

EXTREMELY helpful, thanx

 

[Ken34]

EXTREMELY helpful, thanx

lolz.
4:29 was pretty funny, now that i looked back at it.

 

[AcidJazz]

I'd like to try and get a few kinks out your train of thought. I personally think this is a great way of trying to improve.

Don't ever really concern yourself with combos with Marth. He is very good at doing on the fly things, and its very easy to add an extra hit whenever you can. Your main objective is to get him off the side of the map so you can dair, or do some edge guarding business. Combos are the best way to achieve this but this all comes from a solid aerial game. I think you're throwing too much at yourself at once and we should break this down in a little more hierarchally way.

I think you're thinking way too analytically about the game and not just letting experience ride its course.


My rule for dash attacks is only to pop somebody up into a fair. In this case, they have to be already invulnerable so I run into them as fast as I can to pop them up with a dash attack. Otherwise, dash attacks are useless. I can probably say that for most characters in general. Anyone familiar with crouch cancelling will quickly pick up on that and totally tear you a new one.

Aerial aerial aerial. You're going to be jumping almost all the time. The only time you're really on the ground is a means of transport to a jump that you're going to hit them with. Marth has only a few moves which his ground is of any tolerance. Down tilt is tasty. A neutral swipe is tasty too every now and then. Utilt is business city as far as that goes.

Your overall Marth game is going something like...

Try as hard as you can to spike those *****es off at low percentages. When it starts to get out of combo / spiking range, you gotta just get creative and hope. Forward smashes work but they're hard to connect. Your best bet is probably doing some insane ledge guarding and/or pissing somebody off

 

[ShoryuSwordsman]

one question...i would like to use the c stick in exchange for analog+a for fairs, but the problem is, when i wanna do a SHDF, if feel like my hands will be too slow to use x, and then shoot down to the c-stick. but the c stick is much easier to use when doing just a shffl'ed fair. how should i go about changing so that i can do a shdf w/c stick, or should i just alternate between the two?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Use the A button for the first fair and the c-stick for the second.

 

[ShoryuSwordsman]

^thought so. thanx

 

[ShoryuSwordsman]

okay, here are some vids of me against a better player, and he uses sheik. mind u, i've been practicing, so i personally believe i've improved over time since the samus vids...even so, that doesnt change the fact that im a beginner, so help as much as u can.

me vs. TRU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkvLmdgGuZ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofcNlfqHVNY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T9G5oeSp7E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUkSvq5H7Rw

 

[Emblem Lord]

Video 1

00:02- Nice crouch cancel to d-tilt. Should have grabbed after it though. Doing another d-tilt on a shielding Sheik is risky. She can grab him right out of the d-tilt.

Around 00:14- I see alot of good tech punishing.

Where you throw Sheik depends on her percent. At low percents u-throw to u-tilts to aerials. At higher percents f-throw or d-throw to tech chase.

00:35- You should have edgehogged Sheik. Then she she would have landed on the stage and that would have been a free kill.

00:39- You are really spammy with that d-tilt. Try not to go over board with throwing out 2 or 3 in a row. Throw one out then dash dance to pressure them. Mix up what you do after that d-tilt.Throw one out then grab them if they expected another one.

Try to kill earlier. Marth ahs trouble getting kills at higher percents.

I saw some reckless f-smash usage. Whenb marth's get frustrated or they get desperate for a kill, F-smash spam isn't far behind. Keep a cool head and play smart. Don't get yourself killed, because you kept throwing out f-smashes.

You really don't like going into the air do you? If you don't like using aerials or jumping then you aren't using Marth to his full potential. He is very much an aerial based fighter.

1:20- lol. Random shieldbreaker and you got molested.

2:00 Wtf? Sheik jumps from the ldge and you just sit there crouching? Don't do that. Edgeguarding FTW.

2:04- 4 d-tilts in a row. No. Don't spam it. Use it intelligently.

2:09- You faired and you could have kept the combo going, but you didn't. More fair combos FTW.

3:10 Why did you run so far away? The idea is to keep rpessure on your opponent by staying close.


Video 2

You played differently this game. It's like you realized your mistakes in the first vid and corrected alot of them in this one. I can't say much this one. Your edge guarding was better, your tech chasing, your combos, all of it.

I saw some bad things. You died foolishly on your third life. You did some random things here and there. I saw some d-tilt spam and some f-smash spam. Still, it was an improvement over the first vid IMO. Maybe someone else disagrees.


Video 3

For the most part it's the same as video 2. You are playing better overall compared to the first vid. I'll talk about a few things I notcied in your play.

You don't seem to take advantage of the d-tilts IASA frames that much. You would do one and then stand around. Then you got punished. You should work on dashing or rolling after you whiff a d-tilt.

Sometimes you would just stand there while Sheik was right next to you. Not a good thing.

Your edgeguarding was off in this vid. There were instances where you let ger grab the ledge when she jumped up to grab it. You could have easily killed her with an f-smash or knocked her away with a d-tilt. Basically you let Sheik get back on the stage alot.

You let opportunities to geta kill or a combo get away from you.


Video 4

Saw some randomness and some little mistakes.

You keep letting Sheik back on to the stage.

You screwed up your edgeguarding alot. Saw quite a bit of needless full jumping and double jumping.

You need to get more comfortable shuffling Fairs and Nairs. I didn't see much of that.



Overall, I would say you definitely got better, but you need to work on some key aspects of your game. I listed what I think you need to work on.

- Don't stand around waiting to get *****.

- Stop spamming d-tilt. Use it intelligently

- Don't get desperate with F-smashes

- Don't let your opponent back onto the stage.

- Pressure your opponent with dash dancing.

- More Fair combos.

- Try to kill before your opponent, before their percent gets too high.


I think that's basically it. Other people may have more to say.

Once again, good job on improving.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Great commentary, EL. I learned a bit from it, particularly on how to throw sheik depending on her percent. I can even apply that to other character matchups as well. Good stuff!