Mario Players should Grab MORE!

[The Master of Mario]

Mario has one of the most damaging grabs in the game.

He can refresh his moves knockback and damage by tacking on 3% when he grabs.

His grab range can be improved by using his Dash grab when you're sure they are in lag, Walking grab to gain extra distance, Shield and spotdodge grab as a defensive grab and by using Cape and Fireballs to set up a grab. Mario can do 13% damage with his B-throw and his grab game really helps rack up damage.

Another intersting thing with Grabbing

"I've heard it called grab armor.

If both people do normal hits, and take damage, but only one goes flying, then it's quite likely one of them performed a move with super armor frames. Trading hits should result in both people taking knockback."

"You have like grab armor which gives you immunity to knockback right when you grab someone.

With smashes colliding its priority range and a bunch of other factors."

Source:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211039&highlight=knockback

So you can cancel out other attacks by grabbing.

I think Mario players should grab more.
What do you think about Mario's Grab Game?

 

[Matt07]

Mario's grab game is awesome at low percents. I mean dthrow leads to a bunch of u-air strings/combos. However, Mario's grabs suck at K.O'ing (like all grabs except Ness'), and his grab range is poor. His dash grab also has horrible reach, and you can get punished for it easily.

I mean I think grabs are a more riskier, but better at damage output then Mario's SJP, and considering SJP is good for its invincibility frames, range, and knockback (if they get hit by them all) it's much better then his shieldgrabbing.

In conclusion: SJP is far better then grabs at defensive options, and less risker, better range, invicibility frames. Also weak at K.O'ing However, grabs are really good for starting combo's at low percents.

 

[:mad:]

If Mario had a KO throw like Squirtle, Ness, or Olimar, it would only make things easier. As small of a grab range as he has, even a pivot doesn't help much. When playing someone like Dedede that mainly goes for shieldgrabs, you can occasionally get in a pivot.

Back Throw's the closest thing we'll ever get to a killing throw, and even then they can just DI upwards.

 

[Judge Judy]

Mario's grab game is meh, but I suppose Bthrow could get your opponent offstage for a gimp, possibly at a low percent.

 

[A2ZOMG]

His grab game is decent...not amazing, but definitely something to abuse.

D-throw sets up combos at low percents (requires some prediction sometimes). F-throw does good damage and gets people off the stage. B-throw does very good damage and can either be used for getting people offstage or KOs at liek 160%.

The main thing that pisses me off about Mario's grab game is that Luigi has a lot of the same things but slightly better on his grab game. Specifically his D-throw has a smaller growth rate, and his B-throw KOs about 15% earlier. <_<

Aside from that, I'm honestly a grabaholic. Grabs are the most important way of dealing damage in Brawl in general imo since you get to choose an attack when you grab.

 

[Judge Judy]

Well, I guess Mario has one of the better Shield-Canceled Sliding Grabs in the game.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Grab > Lag

With Mario's Cape and Fludd that can add lag with FIHL and missed attack frames tacking on 12%-15% with a grab seems worth it. After B-throw or F-throw Mario has good approach options with SH-Fireballs, D-airs, fast Dash attack, and U-airs. Mario's Forward and Backwards throws can really set him up to take advantage of the foe in the air.

 

[hippiedude92]

That depends on who the foe is. People such as Marth, Jiggs, Wario, Mk, Kirby have multiple jumps and/or have a good aerial to zone you out. Dthrow seems a better follow up option varying on other things that i dont remember.

 

[The Master of Mario]

It does depend on the character up to a point:

If they have a good, fast D-air that can out priotize Mario's Up-smash and/or U-air, you aren't going to want to do D-Throw. You'd rather send them horizontally where you can approach them where they have to use F-air instead of D-air.

If they have a good high prioity-high range F-air that could beat out an approach with Fireballs, B-air, D-air, N-air or Blind-U-air, the opposite is true and you'd want to use D-throw.

If they have both a good F-air and D-air you'd still want to use F-throw and B-throw because they do the most damage, lead better into Fludd induced hit lag and Fireballs, and send the opponent near the edge for edgegaurding.

Basically, F-Throws and B-Throws can really set up approaches for Mario since Fireballs in horizontal approach, Jabs to get grabs, and Grab Attacks all refresh his moves knockback and throwing foes near the edge makes them easier to KO.


Taking less frames to finish than F-tilt on light characters, F-throw is Mario's fastest throw.


Frame Data:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=219407&highlight=MArio+frame+data

Forward Throw
Action (heavy): 16
Action (light): 10
Average action: 13
End (heavy): 33
End (light): 19
Average end: 26

"The main thing that pisses me off about Mario's grab game is that Luigi has a lot of the same things but slightly better on his grab game. Specifically his D-throw has a smaller growth rate, and his B-throw KOs about 15% earlier. <_<"

Luigi's grabs take more frames to end than Mario's giving them more time to DI and his F-throw also seems slower/laggier. Luigi also has a harder time getting shield grabs because of his lower traction to the ground.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Grab Release

Mario also has grab release options on certain characters:

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Grab_release

Wario
Lucario
Jiggs
Bowser
Link
Ganon
Toon Link

For the on the Ground grab release:
Grab Release-> D-smash.
Grab Attacks->Grab Release->F-tilt, Dash Grab or Jabs can start combos.

For the Aerial grab release:
Grab Attacks->Grab Release->U-air,D-air, (tech chase) Dash Attack or Up Special can rack up damage.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Mario's Grab Release to Smashes are ok. They can KO, but once an opponent sees it once it's never likely to happen again. They have enough time to shield or roll away from the Fsmash from a grab release, Dsmash they can shield.

I've pulled off Grab Release>Jab>Dash Grab a few times. It works about once or twice before they catch on.

 

[Matt07]

Aw man those are shieldable? I was really happy for a second thinking we had a guaranteed grab release f-smash. That would be too awesome.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Mario does have a good grab...






The characters that are tough match-ups for Mario have better grabs though...and grabbing more won't make those match-ups easier by a large margin

 

[KirinBlaze]

Yeah Matt.

The Grab Release>Fsmash is soooooooooo slow that even Ness has time to shield it.

Just jab canceling out of a grab release seems like a better idea to me, that or ftilt.

 

[The Master of Mario]

"The characters that are tough match-ups for Mario have better grabs though"


Snake and Olimar Have more range but more start up frames.
Kirby and Diddy have less range.
Pit, Lucario, Marth and Falco all have less damaging throws and pummel.

"and grabbing more won't make those match-ups easier by a large margin"

F-throw leads into combos better than D-throw on light characters.
Most of the higher tiered characters are light and is harder to DI.
Mario can use his Pummel to refresh the KO power of his other moves.
This helps in harder matchups where a fresh D-smash helps more than F-smash.
Throws can also help get better spacing to lead into Mario's Projectile game.
Grab release combos can get the opponent near the edge where a Jabs->D-smash KOs better.
Grab attacks, Jabs and Fireballs all refresh Mario's KO power which is important in harder matchups.


"The Grab Release>Fsmash is soooooooooo slow that even Ness has time to shield it."
"Grab Release->F-Smash"

I guess this isn't reliable so I'll look for something else to lead into F-smash. Maybe a weakened, autocancelled N-air or B-air works better. Timing a SH-fireball and Up-angled Stutter F-smash to hit the opponent in the air currently works best for me.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

"The characters that are tough match-ups for Mario have better grabs though"


Snake and Olimar Have more range but more start up frames.
Kirby and Diddy have less range.
Pit, Lucario, Marth and Falco all have less damaging throws and pummel.

Snake also has his tilts to keep us away from grabbing him

Olimar has crazy range and that's about it

Kirby can't say much don't play too many kirbys but from what I can tell his grabs put him in a MUCH better position than ours do.

Diddy's throws are really only used at higher %s to get people off the stage... but once again I don't know too much about diddy

Pit isn't one of Mario's tougher match-ups

Lucario has a ton of options out of our throws

Marth has much better set-ups

Falco can laser spam till he can grab you
---

"and grabbing more won't make those match-ups easier by a large margin"

F-throw leads into combos better than D-throw on light characters.
Most of the higher tiered characters are light and is harder to DI.
Mario can use his Pummel to refresh the KO power of his other moves.
This helps in harder matchups where a fresh D-smash helps more than F-smash.
Throws can also help get better spacing to lead into Mario's Projectile game.
Grab release combos can get the opponent near the edge where a Jabs->D-smash KOs better.
Grab attacks, Jabs and Fireballs all refresh Mario's KO power which is important in harder matchups.

all of the stuff you listed here has been common knowledge for a while so I don't see what's revolutionary about this info...

don't get me wrong I know Mario's grabs are good...but like I said they aren't going to be this saving grace that helps Mario win a ton of hard match-ups

 

[Fatmanonice]

Mario's grab is okay but the thing that really kills his grab game is how his grabs because less and less useful as your opponent takes more damage. If his bthrow was a good as it was in Melee then maybe but I'd personally say that Mario's grab shouldn't be used more than most Mario players already use it.

 

[fromundaman]

Kirby and Diddy have less range.

Kirby can't say much don't play too many kirbys but from what I can tell his grabs put him in a MUCH better position than ours do.

Wait what? Master, Kirby has a bigger grab range and a faster grab. Not entirely sure what you're talking about.
Also, Monk is completely right, Kirby's grabs put him in a much better position for the most part than Mario's.

Don't get me wrong, Mario has good grabs, but Kirby's are WAY better. However, the matchup doesn't really suffer from that, so your entire point is kind of off...


That being said, maybe I'm completely wrong.

 

[BSP]

Mario's grab game is good for racking up damage, but doesn't really k.o. that well.