ravemaster47
Smash Ace
Pretty much what chopper dave said. Marios combo game just ruins megas day. We do have a better spacing game and better off stage game. But overall it's still in Marios favor 60:40.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Guide Mario matchup thread
- Thread starter miniada
- Start date
Kulty
Smash Ace
OK so imo,
50-50: This is probably my favorite MU in the game (I know I'm crazy)! Probably it represents the perfect battle between the gaming industry in the 90s. Anyway, this is a MU that I used to think that Sonic wins, because of his ridiculous dashing speed and quite good KO power, which makes it hard for Mario to deal with. But after Sonic received so many nerfs in the last game patches (which pisses me off as a Sonic guy), it makes it a lot easier for Mario to deal. It's still hard for Mario to deal against Sonic, because Sonic has the speed and the power at the same time to make it very obnoxious for most characters in the game to deal with. However, what makes it duable for Mario is that Sonic does share some similar strengths and weaknesses. They both can combo and juggle well. Both can get out of combos pretty well. They can edgeguard each other pretty solidly. Even if they have good KO moves, landing the kill for both of them can be a challenge for both, since Mario does lack of kill setups to finish off stocks and Sonic's KO moves are too punishable when missed.
60-40: Just like the others said, I think this is one of Mega Man's worst MUs, because Mario along withhave all the possible options to shut down most of Mega Man's neutral game. The only advantages that I can see for Mega Man players is that outside of Cape, Mario does lack reliable options to approach and combo Mega Man solidly, because Mega Man tends to do not so bad against characters with no projectiles or poor range. Since Mario' range is poor, it can be difficult for Mario to approach Mega Man without the reliance of Cape (however this is very unlikely to happen).
55-45: I think this is the same as Mega Man, but a little bit more difficult, because Pac-Man does have a great recovery and can get out of Mario's combos pretty easily. However, just like Mega-Man, Pac-Man's main gameplay mostly relies on throwing out projectiles and stage control with fruits and fire-hydrants. All of these tools can be turned against him if Mario knows what to do with his Cape. Also, even if Pac-Man has a great recovery, Mario can still gimp him, because after the highest bounce of trampoline, Pac-Man is basically out of a stock if he can't make it back on stage.
45-55: Ryu is imo a better version of Mario. All of Ryu's attributes are better than Mario at the exception of range (but not by much). Ryu has more recovery options, better survivability, better comboing abilities and easier kill-setups (as long as the Ryu player doesn't mess up his imputs) than Mario, which can make it hard for the plumber to deal with. However, what makes it duable is that Ryu's recovery options are slow and can be predictable, in which Mario can punish by edgeguarding. Also, Ryu gets comboed hard just like Roy and Falcon, which makes it easy for Mario to rack up damage on Ryu. Other else than that, it can be really hard for Mario to fight against Ryu.
50-50: This is probably my favorite MU in the game (I know I'm crazy)! Probably it represents the perfect battle between the gaming industry in the 90s. Anyway, this is a MU that I used to think that Sonic wins, because of his ridiculous dashing speed and quite good KO power, which makes it hard for Mario to deal with. But after Sonic received so many nerfs in the last game patches (which pisses me off as a Sonic guy), it makes it a lot easier for Mario to deal. It's still hard for Mario to deal against Sonic, because Sonic has the speed and the power at the same time to make it very obnoxious for most characters in the game to deal with. However, what makes it duable for Mario is that Sonic does share some similar strengths and weaknesses. They both can combo and juggle well. Both can get out of combos pretty well. They can edgeguard each other pretty solidly. Even if they have good KO moves, landing the kill for both of them can be a challenge for both, since Mario does lack of kill setups to finish off stocks and Sonic's KO moves are too punishable when missed. 60-40: Just like the others said, I think this is one of Mega Man's worst MUs, because Mario along withhave all the possible options to shut down most of Mega Man's neutral game. The only advantages that I can see for Mega Man players is that outside of Cape, Mario does lack reliable options to approach and combo Mega Man solidly, because Mega Man tends to do not so bad against characters with no projectiles or poor range. Since Mario' range is poor, it can be difficult for Mario to approach Mega Man without the reliance of Cape (however this is very unlikely to happen).55-45: I think this is the same as Mega Man, but a little bit more difficult, because Pac-Man does have a great recovery and can get out of Mario's combos pretty easily. However, just like Mega-Man, Pac-Man's main gameplay mostly relies on throwing out projectiles and stage control with fruits and fire-hydrants. All of these tools can be turned against him if Mario knows what to do with his Cape. Also, even if Pac-Man has a great recovery, Mario can still gimp him, because after the highest bounce of trampoline, Pac-Man is basically out of a stock if he can't make it back on stage.45-55: Ryu is imo a better version of Mario. All of Ryu's attributes are better than Mario at the exception of range (but not by much). Ryu has more recovery options, better survivability, better comboing abilities and easier kill-setups (as long as the Ryu player doesn't mess up his imputs) than Mario, which can make it hard for the plumber to deal with. However, what makes it duable is that Ryu's recovery options are slow and can be predictable, in which Mario can punish by edgeguarding. Also, Ryu gets comboed hard just like Roy and Falcon, which makes it easy for Mario to rack up damage on Ryu. Other else than that, it can be really hard for Mario to fight against Ryu.
xIvan321
Smash Journeyman
I don't have really a clear opinion of the win ratio, however I really do have experience in the match up.
Z-dropping and other metal blade shenanigans are what would get us far. z-drop is 1 frame and we have the best item in the game, its one of our silver linings to the MU. Leaf Shield is also surprisingly effective especially with the buffs its received allowing to autocancel at double jump height at start up, its definitely something to respect if you're thinking of approaching him. The thing I personally feel about Mega Man is unless you are Sheik, you'll struggle against a Mega Man that knows well. He could go in and back out eventually the tides could go to him thanks to f-tilt, nair, and leaf shield in terms of stage control. Mega Man's best thing to do in any match up is to keep you in shield, and so many of his moves do that so well to the point that no one can't really perfect shield it all under certain instances.
We can edge guard Mario, but that's only to be expected when we are armed with better projectiles. I personally feel that good projectiles off stage are what eases edge guarding especially in this game. We could throw a diagonal Metal Blade then dair with our second jump and still return. Our Mega Buster would probably be a good answer to him if he doesn't sweetspot the ledge, and in his case, Mario can struggle with that just a wee bit. Those are some examples though, but I'd personally shy away from the leaf shield off stage, because I don't really see it that effective against Mario off stage while its worn.
I would like to say either its equal footing, or Mario wins, but not by a huge margin. (55:50) When DITCIT is mastered for instance (forward toss slide) you basically can't reflect it if preformed too close. Mario's cape will turn Mega Man around but the metal blade is still gonna hurt Mario.
Z-dropping and other metal blade shenanigans are what would get us far. z-drop is 1 frame and we have the best item in the game, its one of our silver linings to the MU. Leaf Shield is also surprisingly effective especially with the buffs its received allowing to autocancel at double jump height at start up, its definitely something to respect if you're thinking of approaching him. The thing I personally feel about Mega Man is unless you are Sheik, you'll struggle against a Mega Man that knows well. He could go in and back out eventually the tides could go to him thanks to f-tilt, nair, and leaf shield in terms of stage control. Mega Man's best thing to do in any match up is to keep you in shield, and so many of his moves do that so well to the point that no one can't really perfect shield it all under certain instances.
We can edge guard Mario, but that's only to be expected when we are armed with better projectiles. I personally feel that good projectiles off stage are what eases edge guarding especially in this game. We could throw a diagonal Metal Blade then dair with our second jump and still return. Our Mega Buster would probably be a good answer to him if he doesn't sweetspot the ledge, and in his case, Mario can struggle with that just a wee bit. Those are some examples though, but I'd personally shy away from the leaf shield off stage, because I don't really see it that effective against Mario off stage while its worn.
I would like to say either its equal footing, or Mario wins, but not by a huge margin. (55:50) When DITCIT is mastered for instance (forward toss slide) you basically can't reflect it if preformed too close. Mario's cape will turn Mega Man around but the metal blade is still gonna hurt Mario.
Man, I hate fighting Mario. He's got that cape that has stupid range and come out fast and he can spam it because by the time I get over there he can do another move. Cape is really the only reason Mario beats Pac-Man in my opinion. Pac-Man outranges him, can heal off his fireballs, can chase him offstage (although his up B has tons of priority), he can't combo Pac-Man long and Pac-Man is really good at avoiding grabs. However, most of Pac-Man's damage comes from setups involving projectiles and Mario has one of the most absurd reflectors in the game. Mario can just cape away everything. He can even cape the hydrant until it launches and I can't do anything about it. This definitely in Mario's favor but if Pac-Man can get the percent lead you can expect a long drawn out fight because approaching Mario isn't very smart. Pac-Man out-ranges Mario's moves but Mario has little lag on his moves and can punish anything Pac-Man does. He also has a better backthrow. I would say 60:40 Mario.
WD40
Smash Apprentice
The Mario Ryu matchup is pretty damn close to even in my opinion. Mario has plenty of tools to handle Ryu. Proper use of Fludd and the cape are the equalizer for Mario in this matchup. You can do some real messed up things to Ryus tastu, shoryuken, and Hadouken using the cape. Mario also can handle focus attack with ease as long as you aren't afraid of it. His awesome grab ability and his down air (the spinny attack) are nice counters to focus attack.
I think if Mario can use those non combat oriented tools to keep Ryu from establishing a rhythm in the match and keep him off his footing, the matchup moves more towards Marios favor. Other than that Ryu is clearly ahead in terms of fighting power, Mario can't go toe to toe with him. I think the Mario player also needs to be much more judicious with their use of up smash. That thing is pretty easy to read, and using FA against a Mario up smash is a free level 2 stun which will almost certainly lead to a loss of stock.
Edge guarding pressure is essential against Ryu as well. He has a very long recovery that is hard to gimp if done right.
I think if Mario can use those non combat oriented tools to keep Ryu from establishing a rhythm in the match and keep him off his footing, the matchup moves more towards Marios favor. Other than that Ryu is clearly ahead in terms of fighting power, Mario can't go toe to toe with him. I think the Mario player also needs to be much more judicious with their use of up smash. That thing is pretty easy to read, and using FA against a Mario up smash is a free level 2 stun which will almost certainly lead to a loss of stock.
Edge guarding pressure is essential against Ryu as well. He has a very long recovery that is hard to gimp if done right.
Sorichuudo
Smash Ace
Have to agree with the majority, in my personal experience, beats .
We are combo fodder, and once outside combo % we enter kill %. Your ko moves are way better as well, whiffed a usmash or an fsmash? Unless we are close enough to land an utilt, you ain't getting punished. We whiffed a usmash, a utilt, or God forbid we even use it, a dsmash? Congratulations, start charging your smash attack of choice.
Keeping you out is possible, but eventually you will get past our projectiles, and once you get going, its hard to stop you.
We can give you a tough time off stage, but we must get you there first, and a good Mario won't get gimped at low %. 60-40 in's favor.
beats .We are combo fodder, and once outside combo % we enter kill %. Your ko moves are way better as well, whiffed a usmash or an fsmash? Unless we are close enough to land an utilt, you ain't getting punished. We whiffed a usmash, a utilt, or God forbid we even use it, a dsmash? Congratulations, start charging your smash attack of choice.
Keeping you out is possible, but eventually you will get past our projectiles, and once you get going, its hard to stop you.
We can give you a tough time off stage, but we must get you there first, and a good Mario won't get gimped at low %. 60-40 in
's favor.
Mario 60:40 over Pac-Man IMO.
I'm not going to type out a long summary, but it really boils down to this: approach Pac-Man constantly, ignore the hydrant unless it's actually being launched at you, and get in there and combo him. In general, Pac-Man outranges Mario slightly, BUT all of Mario's buttons sans Fair are faster and have more reward attached to them. TBH Mario has better buttons overall, and you feel this when you're fighting a Mario that spaces properly. Pac-Man is going to be chipping away at Mario with stray hits trying to avoid combos, while Mario lands 1 hit or grab and can easily tack on 20%+. It's clearly in Mario's favor.
Oh, almost forgot to mention that Mario wins CQC unless he's right on top of Pac-Man. Cape disrupts any chance of setups for Pac-Man, so it's even harder to KO than usual.
Notable Experience: Played Ally in 2 MMs at MLG World Finals and did at least 10 friendlies with him. I didn't take a single game, but I didn't get blown out either. Of course, Ally is a better player than me, but it's not hard to glean information about the MU. He had the upper hand in CQC because Mario has overall faster and better moves, and I couldn't reliably go for setups because he'd cape anything I tried. I could generally keep up if I spammed trampoline and constantly poked and prodded him as he approached, but all he had to do was get in once and land a solid hit to catch up immediately.
For comparison, I went Mario in our last friendly and I almost won. Had him at 175% or so, but he got his Usmash before I did lol. Dude is good.
I'm not going to type out a long summary, but it really boils down to this: approach Pac-Man constantly, ignore the hydrant unless it's actually being launched at you, and get in there and combo him. In general, Pac-Man outranges Mario slightly, BUT all of Mario's buttons sans Fair are faster and have more reward attached to them. TBH Mario has better buttons overall, and you feel this when you're fighting a Mario that spaces properly. Pac-Man is going to be chipping away at Mario with stray hits trying to avoid combos, while Mario lands 1 hit or grab and can easily tack on 20%+. It's clearly in Mario's favor.
Oh, almost forgot to mention that Mario wins CQC unless he's right on top of Pac-Man. Cape disrupts any chance of setups for Pac-Man, so it's even harder to KO than usual.
Notable Experience: Played Ally in 2 MMs at MLG World Finals and did at least 10 friendlies with him. I didn't take a single game, but I didn't get blown out either. Of course, Ally is a better player than me, but it's not hard to glean information about the MU. He had the upper hand in CQC because Mario has overall faster and better moves, and I couldn't reliably go for setups because he'd cape anything I tried. I could generally keep up if I spammed trampoline and constantly poked and prodded him as he approached, but all he had to do was get in once and land a solid hit to catch up immediately.
For comparison, I went Mario in our last friendly and I almost won. Had him at 175% or so, but he got his Usmash before I did lol. Dude is good.
CopShowGuy
Smash Ace
v is pretty rough for Mega Man. Mario is very safe on many of his moves. Mega Man isn't. Mario has a better time juggling. The cape keeps Mega Man honest. The only saving grace is that Mario can be dealt with when off stage.At least 60:40 Mario.
CHOMPY
Sinbad: King of Sindria
Hey guys, I know your not discussing about , but if you guys have any input about the and matchup, please discuss it on the page.
http://smashboards.com/threads/batt...rizard-little-mac.414936/page-5#post-20502639
, but if you guys have any input about the and matchup, please discuss it on the page.http://smashboards.com/threads/batt...rizard-little-mac.414936/page-5#post-20502639
Rango the Mercenary
The Mercenary
Hope I'm not going off-topic, but I'm using Ctrl+F with no luck on finding anything related Sheik. Will she be discussed in the near future?
Xeze
Smash Ace
She was discussed earlier on but since there was the 1.1.1 patch after said discussion, she will probably be re-discussed later.
Last edited:
Skeeter Mania
Smash Ace
I wonder what exactly is your stance on each MU and why?
Xeze
Smash Ace
Which MUs?
Djmarcus44
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2015
- Messages
- 479
Mario beats mii gunner solidly. I would have to say that the matchup ratio is 60:40 in Mario's favor for guest size 1111 gunner, and 55:45 in Mario's favor for 3312 gunner. Mario wins this matchup because he is able to break our zoning with cape and combo gunner easily. He is also able to mess up some of our follow ups with nair and cape. It is also pretty hard to land against Mario since our best landing options are projectiles, and Mario's up smash cannot be challenged by mii gunner. Mario also has a pretty easy time edgeguarding gunner since gunner doesn't have many options to recover, and Mii Gunner mainly uses projectiles to cover their projectiles.
On the other hand, Mii Gunner can still do well in this matchup by mixing up their options in the neutral and walling Mario out with bair. Mii Gunner wins the neutral by being patient since Mario has to approach due to his lack of range (1111 mii gunner can open up the matchup by charging up charge blast, and 3312 gunner can shoot grenades and missiles quickly to pressure Mario). In addition, Mario is also fairly easy for gunner to juggle and edgeguard. The matchup is easier for gunner with 3312 because it is easier for gunner to shoot projectiles without worrying about them being reflected. In addition, mii gunner has an easier time edgeguarding Mario with grenade and missile.
On the other hand, Mii Gunner can still do well in this matchup by mixing up their options in the neutral and walling Mario out with bair. Mii Gunner wins the neutral by being patient since Mario has to approach due to his lack of range (1111 mii gunner can open up the matchup by charging up charge blast, and 3312 gunner can shoot grenades and missiles quickly to pressure Mario). In addition, Mario is also fairly easy for gunner to juggle and edgeguard. The matchup is easier for gunner with 3312 because it is easier for gunner to shoot projectiles without worrying about them being reflected. In addition, mii gunner has an easier time edgeguarding Mario with grenade and missile.
L1N3R1D3R
Smash Lord
So how about other combinations? The four big ones for Gunner are 1312, 1323 (my favorite), 3312, and 3323, and there could be advantages for using one combination of Mii over the other. Could anyone test this?
Djmarcus44
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2015
- Messages
- 479
Grenade the best neutral special option for this matchup due to the fact that it can be used to bait the cape. Charge blast can be used in this matchup for punishes mainly, but it is harder to be unpredictable with this move. Lunar Launch would be a better choice than Cannon Uppercut because FLUDD would kill gunner offstage when cannon uppercut is used to recover. Absorbing Vortex is mainly useful for recovery and wavedashing (information on wavedashing is in the Mii Gunner AT thread). It is somewhat useful for absorbing mii gunner's charge blast in this matchup if it gets reflected (for every other projectile in this matchup, gunner must be careful about using absorber due to the risk of allowing Mario to get a free grab). Since I haven't mastered the wavedash, I am not sure about its usefulness in this matchup. Bomb drop is better at this stage of the mii gunner metagame for this matchup because it gives Gunner a combo starter and a landing mixup. Although I think that 3312 is the best moveset for this matchup, 1323 isn't bad for this matchup if you are able to avoid getting killed by Mario's FLUDD.
Although you didn't mention flame pillar or reflector as commonly used moves, I will still cover their usefulness since they are used commonly by gunner. Flame pillar is pretty good in this matchup for edgeguarding and stopping approaches (mainly dashgrab and fireball approaches). Reflector is okay in this matchup for establishing control of the neutral and stopping FLUDD. It also is safer to use on Mario's projectiles than absorber.
Skeeter Mania
Smash Ace
Third parties, of course.
Xeze
Smash Ace
Gonna try to give my input on the 3rd parties and Miis.
Clearly in Mario's favor. Mario can shut down his neutral and it's hard for Mega Man to keep up with the plumber's mobility. Mega Man can be comboed pretty easily and has a very linear recovery too. Mario has to beware when recovering, however, as the super fighting robot can gimp him with f-air, b-air or even neutral B.
Another MU in Mario's favor. Pacs gameplan centers around his neutral B and down B, which are all projectiles. Mario has a cape to reflect them. I've heard Pac mains say that this is the sole reason why this MU is so complicated for them. Of course, coupling Mario's mobility and frame data, makes it even worse. Just be careful when recovering against Pac.
At the beginning of Smash 4 this MU was a nightmare for Mario. Sonic could just play the hit and run strategy and then kill Mario at like 90% with a back throw. Now things have changed a bit. I still believe it's in Sonic's favor. Best thing to do against the hedgehog is to throw out hitboxes when he approaches (n-nair, b-air and d-air mainly). Fireballs can harass Sonic as he tries to approach. Don't try to gimp Sonic, as his recovery is too good. But go for ledge trumps whenever you can, as his up B lacks a hitbox. Avoid taking him to stages where he can easily run away to play the hit and run game, mainly FD, Duck Hunt and Smashville.
I used to think Mario has the edge on this one, but now I think it's more even. Maybe slightly in Ryu's favor. The thing is, Ryu gets much more reward from individual hits than Mario does. Ryu does get combo'd by Mario, d-air goes through Focus Attack and recovery can be gimped with cape+FLUDD and ledge trumps also help. But Ryu has that clutch true Shoryuken that can kill ridiculously early. Thus, if Mario is at like 70%, one mistake and it's a stock. The pressure is insane in this MU.
Now the Miis. First of all, I will consider that any moveset for the Miis is allowed but only on guest Miis (default height and weight).
I believe Mario goes even with Brawler, beats Gunner and Swordfighter.
Brawler is like a pseudo-Mario, even though he has two up B's that are good kill moves (Helicopter Kick and Piston Punch). Not easy to gimp if he recovers high because of Feint Jump. Mario's combo games is way better though.
Gunner is projectile-based, therefore Mario can prevail. Mario also has better frame data overall, so combos all day. However, beware of the insane range that Gunner has in his f-smash and u-air. Gunner's recovery is pretty bad so go for gimps whenever you can.
As for Swordfighter, Mario usually has trouble against sword users. However, in this case, the Swordfighter has pitiful range in his moves. Plus his kill moves are kinda meh, just like his recovery. Just play as you would play against any sword user and Mario should win this without many problems.
Ratios:
60:40
60:40
45:55
50:50
50:50
60:40
55:45
Feel free to disagree with my opinions.
Clearly in Mario's favor. Mario can shut down his neutral and it's hard for Mega Man to keep up with the plumber's mobility. Mega Man can be comboed pretty easily and has a very linear recovery too. Mario has to beware when recovering, however, as the super fighting robot can gimp him with f-air, b-air or even neutral B.
Another MU in Mario's favor. Pacs gameplan centers around his neutral B and down B, which are all projectiles. Mario has a cape to reflect them. I've heard Pac mains say that this is the sole reason why this MU is so complicated for them. Of course, coupling Mario's mobility and frame data, makes it even worse. Just be careful when recovering against Pac.
At the beginning of Smash 4 this MU was a nightmare for Mario. Sonic could just play the hit and run strategy and then kill Mario at like 90% with a back throw. Now things have changed a bit. I still believe it's in Sonic's favor. Best thing to do against the hedgehog is to throw out hitboxes when he approaches (n-nair, b-air and d-air mainly). Fireballs can harass Sonic as he tries to approach. Don't try to gimp Sonic, as his recovery is too good. But go for ledge trumps whenever you can, as his up B lacks a hitbox. Avoid taking him to stages where he can easily run away to play the hit and run game, mainly FD, Duck Hunt and Smashville.
I used to think Mario has the edge on this one, but now I think it's more even. Maybe slightly in Ryu's favor. The thing is, Ryu gets much more reward from individual hits than Mario does. Ryu does get combo'd by Mario, d-air goes through Focus Attack and recovery can be gimped with cape+FLUDD and ledge trumps also help. But Ryu has that clutch true Shoryuken that can kill ridiculously early. Thus, if Mario is at like 70%, one mistake and it's a stock. The pressure is insane in this MU.
Now the Miis. First of all, I will consider that any moveset for the Miis is allowed but only on guest Miis (default height and weight).
I believe Mario goes even with Brawler, beats Gunner and Swordfighter.
Brawler is like a pseudo-Mario, even though he has two up B's that are good kill moves (Helicopter Kick and Piston Punch). Not easy to gimp if he recovers high because of Feint Jump. Mario's combo games is way better though.
Gunner is projectile-based, therefore Mario can prevail. Mario also has better frame data overall, so combos all day. However, beware of the insane range that Gunner has in his f-smash and u-air. Gunner's recovery is pretty bad so go for gimps whenever you can.
As for Swordfighter, Mario usually has trouble against sword users. However, in this case, the Swordfighter has pitiful range in his moves. Plus his kill moves are kinda meh, just like his recovery. Just play as you would play against any sword user and Mario should win this without many problems.
Ratios:
60:40 60:40 45:55 50:50 50:50 60:40 55:45 Feel free to disagree with my opinions.
Last edited:
Smoking_Hot_BBQ
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 96
- NNID
- cvl257
- 3DS FC
- 4098-4726-7823
Mario has clear advantages against megaman and pac man because of cape, which negates the effectiveness of their projectile. I think Ryu wins slightly over Mario from better kill setups, but Mario can also negate some of ryu's options, with dair going through Focus Attack.
Smoking_Hot_BBQ
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 96
- NNID
- cvl257
- 3DS FC
- 4098-4726-7823
Speaking of third parties, how do we think Mario will fare against Cloud, going by the trailer? Depending on how similar cloud is to ike I think we could apply some of that matchup knowledge to him.
Xeze
Smash Ace
From what I've got from the trailer, Cloud has good range which can be a problem. On the other hand, his recovery without limit break is very gimpable and he seems to be combo food. Therefore, for now I'd say it will be either even or slightly in Mario's favor
Underhill
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 31, 2015
- Messages
- 832
- NNID
- Chase47
I'll say and make this quick. I'll add more, tomorrow before I leave for work.
Same stuff that Luigi and Mario can do to each other before the Luigi nerf and while I think things are alittle easier for Mario, I still think the match-up is in Luigi's favor, but slightly because he can still combo and kill better than Mario while having n-air to limit Mario's extended combos and juggle him. Mario may have better mobility, b-airs and fireballs to zone and keep Luigi out while having tools to gimp Luigi off-stage(but not easily) and juggle him with up-smash and other mix ups, but Luigi can still give Mario trouble with his set-ups(not guaranteed anymore, but to look for your di and air dodges with tornado), combo mix ups, aerials, and decent tools to gimp Mario's recovery like tornado gimp, d-air, f-air, and b-air. Mario may break out with n-air and up-b, but Luigi's combo breaker move is better.
So even though the match up is easier for Mario, its still in Luigi's favor, slightly like against Pikachu and Fox.
Same stuff that Luigi and Mario can do to each other before the Luigi nerf and while I think things are alittle easier for Mario, I still think the match-up is in Luigi's favor, but slightly because he can still combo and kill better than Mario while having n-air to limit Mario's extended combos and juggle him. Mario may have better mobility, b-airs and fireballs to zone and keep Luigi out while having tools to gimp Luigi off-stage(but not easily) and juggle him with up-smash and other mix ups, but Luigi can still give Mario trouble with his set-ups(not guaranteed anymore, but to look for your di and air dodges with tornado), combo mix ups, aerials, and decent tools to gimp Mario's recovery like tornado gimp, d-air, f-air, and b-air. Mario may break out with n-air and up-b, but Luigi's combo breaker move is better.
So even though the match up is easier for Mario, its still in Luigi's favor, slightly like against Pikachu and Fox.
miniada
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2015
- Messages
- 310
- NNID
- miniada
55:45luigi still has good options against mario.he has nair to break out of combos. Better kill moves such as fsmash, dsmash, upsmash, down b, upbetc.mario can zone him out with bair and fireballs. gimping luigi will be hard since down b can come up fast and be a mix up. Down b can edgeguard Mario as well as back air.it's better for mario but he still loses.
Xeze
Smash Ace
The MU is still in Luigi's favor, but it's not horrible like it was pre-patch. That's because Mario doesn't have to worry getting grabbed at 100% and just die. Luigi, however, still has better damage output and can combo Mario better at low % than the other way around. Luigi still loses in offstage game, although watch out for his cyclone gimps (DA BLENDA, shoutouts to Boss for the name). Using FLUDD wisely is important in this MU, as this messes up with Luigi's already bad mobility.
miniada
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2015
- Messages
- 310
- NNID
- miniada
With the charecter boards closing up soon we won't have time to finish discussion it's been a long ride and now it's over.
@HeroMystic can you do the honor of locking this thread.
@HeroMystic can you do the honor of locking this thread.
Smoking_Hot_BBQ
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 96
- NNID
- cvl257
- 3DS FC
- 4098-4726-7823
Character boards closing? Why?
MarioMeteor
Smash Hero
Mario isn't top tier. And you're a fool to come to the Mario boards and ***** about bias. That's like complaining about it being cold in Alaska.
Xandercosm
Smash Lord
I'm not really seeing the merit in that argument. People have had ages to figure out the MU with him. He's virtually the simplest MU to learn in the game. Which is one of the reasons he's so good. He has so many virtues that he's still amazing even though the MU isn't hard to learn. I think he'll always be considered "high to top tier" for the same reason Diddy Kong will always be considered "high to top tier". They're both super solid characters that can work in tons of situations and have good MU spreads.
Last edited:
Ritronaut
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2015
- Messages
- 135
Could you care to explain the Mario MU then? I find he is one of the hardest characters for me to deal with. I think he beats Pikachu 60:40, ESAM consistently loses to Ally, yet these boards think it's even for some reason.
Last edited:
Xandercosm
Smash Lord
I'm not saying he's not hard. He's incredibly hard to fight because he's a really powerful character with amazing frame data and great combos. But there's not much more to fighting him than trying to avoid getting grabbed and letting him begin strings and then getting your damage in at opportune moments. It's not easy at all. What I meant was that, it's an easy MU to understand, not to actually play (since you need very quick reflexes, and such, to fight a good Mario effectively).
Last edited:
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
One thing to keep in mind about Mario is that Smash 4 really helped him out big time with his air mobility, and the inclusion of the custom specials gives him more offensive options to use against his opponents.
Red Stache
Smash Cadet
While things are subject to change in updates or for other reasons... Mario is currently a big threat.
Like Xandercosm said,
Since there hasn't been any (or little?) changes to Mario, and that he's been in this game since it launched...
If he was flawed in a way, that would drop him lower or much lower than where others think he is now... wouldn't it have already been found in other characters match-ups or the match-up data by now?
Like Xandercosm said,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the last number of updates for the game, Mario is one of the few characters that has not had any (or little) changes made to him.
Since there hasn't been any (or little?) changes to Mario, and that he's been in this game since it launched...
If he was flawed in a way, that would drop him lower or much lower than where others think he is now... wouldn't it have already been found in other characters match-ups or the match-up data by now?
Xandercosm
Smash Lord
Thank you, sir.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
The Rosalina sub-forum is analyzing Mario again this week. Here's the link to the page if you have anything to contribute.
http://smashboards.com/threads/404695/
http://smashboards.com/threads/404695/