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Marina Liteyears for SSBB *Updated Moveset*

J

Jester_Katz

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KumaOso said:
Saki doesn't affect her chances because Treasure is not in the copyrights at the bottom.
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Hmm, interesting. i went to the official Japan site below, translated, for Sin & Punishment, and I don't see any Treasure copyrights...perhaps they made it and gave the rights to Nintendo. Which would make Sin & Punishment Nintendo owned, and thus, would make Saki a first-party character.

http://www.google.com/translate?u=h..._nguj/index.html&langpair=ja|en&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Of course, I didn't do much exploring...:ohwell:
 
Big-Cat

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I think Treasure was work for hire. I think Nintendo came up with the concept, characters, and all, but Treasure made the game. Think of them like Tose in this case.
 
Big-Cat

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I think Treasure made up the concept of and developed Mischief Makers with Enix publishing in Japan and Nintendo publishing it everywhere else.
 
J

Jester_Katz

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Mmm, yes, I think that, not to sound sarcastic (but how can ya tell in text), we made note that Mischief Makers is all Treasure. So Cless mite be right about Marina's chances not being affected.

...However, now that I think of it (ow, thinking hurts), since Nintendo is already noticing Treasure, Saki is proof of that, I'm sure Marina will be at least an AT
 
Big-Cat

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Jester_Katz said:
Mmm, yes, I think that, not to sound sarcastic (but how can ya tell in text), we made note that Mischief Makers is all Treasure. So Cless mite be right about Marina's chances not being affected.

...However, now that I think of it (ow, thinking hurts), since Nintendo is already noticing Treasure, Saki is proof of that, I'm sure Marina will be at least an AT
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While that may be the case, you have to remember that Saki was apparently highly requested.

Also, that ad is awesome. I didn't know there were lyrics for the theme song.
 
Cless

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Saki wasn't mentioned in Sakurai's journal, which means that Sakurai wasn't interested in him. That doesn't mean that the fans weren't.
 
J

Jester_Katz

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Hmmm...well, I'm still going with what you said that it dosn't affect Marina's chances. I'm hoping for her to be playable (oh that sounded dirty), but I think, at best she'll be an AT.

...Journal?
 
B

Black/Light

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Cless said:
Saki wasn't mentioned in Sakurai's journal, which means that Sakurai wasn't interested in him. That doesn't mean that the fans weren't.
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That also doesn't mean he wasn't "interested" in him. Sonic and PT/ Char/ Squirt/ Ivy never made it onto that journal. It doesn't mean he wasn't "interested" in them;)
 
Cless

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I don't think he ever mentioned Saki in an interview either.

Fatmanonice said:
And as I pointed out in one of my earlier posts, popularity isn't the most important factor. Quite a large number of very popular characters have gone down the tubes and all of them were either mentioned once in Sakurai's journal or not mentioned at all. Bowser Jr and Dark Samus, for example, also didn't appear in Sakurai's journal. If you still believe popularity is the most important factor, consider the following:

"Now, because this journal reflects what Sakurai and his staff were interested in (but it by no means they are absolutely guarenteed a spot but it does give them a decent amount of support), it is expected that some very popular characters didn't appear. Sakurai even said in the journal himself that "adding just popular characters doesn't excite me." I personally believe (and there is strong evidence) that Sakurai was referring to characters he was going to make playable. Let's look at some of the people who have been made into ATs:

1. Samurai Goroh-easily the most requested F-Zero character since even before Melee and yet he didn't appear in Sakurai's journal.

2. Lyn-many polls both in Japan and North America showed that she wasn't too far behind Ike when it came to the next Fire Emblem character people wanted in Brawl but she didn't appear in Sakurai's journal either.

3. Deoxyes-the winner of the offical poll asking Japan who their favorite legardary pokemon was that Nintendo ran before the eighth(?) pokemon movie. Sakurai even went out and told us that Deoxyes was a very popular character but, like the Goroh and Lyn, he didn't appear in Sakurai's journal.

4. Saki- Sakurai came right out and told us just how popular this character was and how many people demanded him and yet, once again, he didn't appear at all in Sakurai's journal.

5. Waluigi- To everyone's horror, was actually the 4th most requested character for the next Smash Bros game in Nintendo Power's offical poll back in 2005 behind Wario, Toad, and Captain Olimar. Despite being highly recongized and appearing in more then 20 games since his debut, he also didn't appear in Sakurai's journal.

6. Toad and Daisy-same situation as above

7. Gardevoir-the only pokemon that actually mentioned once in Sakurai's journal and actually believed to be the most popular pokemon in Japan. This is yet another character that was sent to the preverbial graveyard.

8. Munchlax-referred to by some as the "pichu" of the Diamond and Pearl generation. This pokemon also has a massive following in Japan but didn't appear in Sakurai's journal and became a pokeball pokemon.

9. Meowth-similar situation as the two above

10. Little Mac- Only appeared once in Sakurai's journal and Sakurai hinted that, like the others I've mentioned, was highly suggested. He once noted how Punch Out, the Mystery of Murasume Castle and the Adventures of Lolo were his favorite games. Despite this, Little Mac became an AT and, at this point, it seems like Lolo and Muddy Mole (two other characters he said he really liked in different interviews) will probably go the same route since neither of them were mentioned either. Oddly enough, Takamaru (the star of "the Mystery of Murasume Castle) was mentioned three times and Sakurai has already made two really popular katanna users (Lyn and Goroh) into ATs. Perhaps he's making room for this hero? Only time will tell...

*side note: Sonic was mentioned in an interview but Sakurai didn't state how he felt about the character and meerly reflected on how he knew other people felt about him and the freakish demand for him. I believe the eight characters that Sakurai has mentioned in interviews since 2001 (Lucas, Sigurd, Little Mac, Muddy Mole, Lolo, Lip, the Balloon Fighter, and Sonic) are mostly exempt from the "journal rule" despite more then half of them being mentioned at least once within it. In other words, Sakurai sourcing them outside of the journal's context is relatively important despite, as he has said in the past, not just adding characters only he wants*

So there you go, ten examples regarding popular characters and providing evidence that Sakurai's journal provides evidence about who Sakurai and his team are interested in making playable.

On an ending note, it should also be noted that these characters were also only mentioned once and made into ATs/bosses:

1. Petey Pirhanna
2. Hammer Bros
3. the Advance Wars infantry men
4. the Excite Biker"

I might as well take this moment to point out how Dark Samus's deconfirmation is yet another punch in the kidneys to Bowser Jrs chances. Like I said in another post, Sakurai is avoiding adding characters that are basically just different variations of each other (although Paper Mario and Cell shaded Young Link are completely different graphic styles from their counterparts and have enough abilities to differentiate them from Mario and Adult Link). This is why Pichu is gone, why Lucas has most likely replaced Ness, and why there is a decent amount of evidence that shows that Dr. Mario is gone.

So in the end, like I said in yet another post, Geno's only real competition now is Paper Mario (as far as Mario characters go) but there isn't any true evidence that suggests that Sakurai has his eye on the character since it didn't appear in his journal, hasn't been mentioned in interviews, and wasn't requested in the 2001 Melee poll.
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Take his observations for what their worth.
 
B

Black/Light

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. . . I don't really lissen to Fatmanonice. He is one of the people who keep claiming Geno is 2.5 party. . . which is a made up term.
 
J

Jester_Katz

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I think the question is: would she make a balanced fighter? would she be too strong compared to the other fighters, or too weak? with fighting games like this, it's all about the balance. I'm sure there are loads of characters Mr. Sakurai would like to put in, playable or otherwise, but can't.

Jester_Katz said:
...Journal?
Click to expand...
 
Cless

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How strong or weak she is depends upon the amount of priority and power they give her moves. It's not really dependent on what character it is.
 
Jave

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She's also the only character besides DK that deserves having a "walking while holding an enemy" ability.
 
Chepe

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She would HAVE TO say "Shake Shake!" for her grab attack. The attack itself could even be shaking the foe to be completely accurate, lol!
 
Cless

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Yeah, and she has her slide move too. She's not weak or anything. The game mechanics just called for throwing.
 
J

Jester_Katz

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True, but this is SSBB. They did many changes to the characters for this game: Mario can shoot fireballs without the fire flower; Link has unlimited arrows; and Peach is able to pull Toad from who-knows-where. Non of this was possible in their respective games (unless you used a gameshark or something), they bend the rules, so to speak, for this game, and I think we can do the same for Marina.

Jester_Katz said:
...Lemon curry?
Click to expand...
 
Cless

Cless

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Yeah, but Mario is known for throwing fireballs, Link is known for shooting arrows. He has arrows, bombs, and the boomerang in every Zelda game (except Zelda 2, but that doesn't count). Marina is known for throwing, yes, but she isn't known for being weak. Besides, where did all of Peach's strength come from, or C. Falcon's entire being?
 
J

Jester_Katz

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I know, I know. But she can't be too strong, or it'll be an unfair advantage if she's playable. She has to have some weak points to balance her strong points.
 
Cless

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No one has to be balanced. That's just what they shoot for, and fail horribly at. Since they do such sweeping updates to the game, it's difficult to balance people.
 
Jave

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Punching and Throwing use the same muscles and body parts, so giving Marina powerful throws but weak punches makes no sense. Seriously, "no knockback" is even unfair for her character. She's incredibly strong, if her skills in MM are any indication.

Marina's strength can be evened out by giving her low speed, or low jumps, make her a fast faller or give her bad recovery skills (the latter two I can actually see happening). Also, she wouldn't have a projectile of her own, but the projectile catcher would kinda work as one.
 
Veysey

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Shes a big hunk of metal... I think making her a slower character is more than acceptable. Having horrible upward recovery is also more than acceptable. Low jumping and faster falling is (again) fine and makes sense. Really, Marina should be like this (in my eyes):

Pros:
- STRONG
- Strong throwing ability
- Hard to beat around (heavy)
- Ability to catch projectiles/Players easily
- Ability to boost 5 times while airborne in any base direction (up down left right)

Cons:
- Slow
- Horrible jump height, Falls fast
- Very little, if any, vertical recovery (other than the boosting)
- A lot of downtime from aerial attacks

With her fast falling - that should make boosting upward pretty hard. She can boost left and right on ground but has a little recovery when she does it so you can use it to move around but will have a hard time engaging your opponent out of a series of dashes. Boosting down on the ground will make you roll - again, you'll have some recovery to deal with but its faster by far compared to a shield roll. Using aerial attacks is akin to Bowser where l-cancelling is a must otherwise be punished >_>

The best way to play her would be mostly stationary and wait out your opponent and play a 'counter' game. She should be able to not only catch projectiles, but opponents as well - give it a bit of recovery so it isn't easily spammable. Catching a player puts you in the position to throw them/shake them. Trowing back projectiles should go at twice the speed when you caught it. Oh, and Marina should be able to catch opponents while airborne as well.

Marina should be almost what you'd call a gimmicky character. You'll be relying on her boosting for recovery and mobility and her punching/kicking (although powerful) will hold little to no value in most bouts. Your best game should be a throwing game/counter game. Chasing your opponent should almost never be an option as well.


Well I think I've written enough =/
I'd just like to see Marina as a unique character that people think of as neat and fresh. She really is one of the few characters in video game history that used very unusual methods of punishing her foes. She'd make a great addition to this game and we all know it. =P
 
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