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making the 90% combo more practical

kennypu

Smash Journeyman
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May 26, 2008
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Hey guys
I was thinking about the 90% combo, and it sure is a great combo, but obviously we all can see it would be very hard to pull off in a real-intense match. I created this thread to provide ways in which we can approach this problem, so that we can use the combo freely and easily in a real match.

To start off, they are still quite weak and less effective, but a few way to approach an enemy.
The ones here, rely on the dtilt's trip property. I still have to test, but in metaknights case, if the dtilt does not trip the opponent, the utilt right after will not hit. I'm not sure with the other characters, but I'm guessing this is only for really small characters. You can see me doing it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJGIlagAFsg
as you can, by using the dtilt and tripping the opponent, it can easily lead into the utilt.

next is for people with bigger start ups. this one is done on snake, I've tested it on bowser as well. I doubt this is a true combo, but it is a possible way of approaching. basicly it requires a full hit fair, into a dtilt then utilt. if you are close enough, the dtilt and utilt will not hit(with the exception of bigger characters, the utilt hits for bowser). You can see it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDViOQU9q3E ( I make a lot of mistakes in this one)

EDIT: also notice that at times, the last frame of the fair trips the opponent. if this happens, the dtilt after is unnecessary.

These are pretty much based on luck, but they are still useful and noteworthy. I'll test and see if there may be other ways of approaching. Currently for heavier characters, I'm thinking of a way of using pk fire->utilt->combo. If you guys can think of other ways, that would be nice too.

UPDATE:
I don't know if this is true, but for snake,meta, and rob, the 90% combo is not a true combo. snake can use a variety of moves, and rob can uair soon as he gets utilted. So don't over spam this combo, use it only as a surprise.
 

Uffe

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In an intense match, if your head is clear, it is very well possible to do this, I'm sure. It's easy to pull off on a motionless CPU, but I'm sure if you attempt this on a daily basis through friendlies, you'll eventually be able to do this. It's only a matter of time until it works for you.
 

kennypu

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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Blue Blue town, Eagleland
In an intense match, if your head is clear, it is very well possible to do this, I'm sure. It's easy to pull off on a motionless CPU, but I'm sure if you attempt this on a daily basis through friendlies, you'll eventually be able to do this. It's only a matter of time until it works for you.
true. also if you take the dtilt method, you can sit there and dtilt untill they trip since it comes out fast. LOL. ofcourse you'll have to make sure you don't hit them again after they trip though xP
 

Gaussis

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Something sort of important to note: the tripping sweetspot for dtilt is in the middle of Ness's foot. It is a guaranteed trip if that part hits.
 

AvariceX

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I agree, if that is true I am about to spend a lot of time practicing proper spacing of dtilt...I mean, a move that hits on frame 2 and leads to a guaranteed fsmash? Why has this not been abused to the point of brokenness yet?
 

Gaussis

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Because the thing is so hard to space. The sweetspot is small. I'll look for a pic right now to show more or less where it is.
 

AvariceX

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When looking at the top levels of play it doesn't matter how hard or specific something is to space. The best players will learn it, and if this actually works I have full intent to learn it.

This combined with the pkf cancelled dair off the ledge could be what keep me playing Ness and not switching to MK. If only I had access to my wii right now to try it out.
 

LibertyD

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Hi
Because the thing is so hard to space. The sweetspot is small. I'll look for a pic right now to show more or less where it is.
are you even sure about this? Where did you exactly happen to come upon this finding?
I really doubt this because I hardly every trip, even if the Ness is using dtilt in rapid succession, di'ing back or fourth, or just standing still. (you should be getting pushed back anyways by dtilt)
 

Gaussis

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are you even sure about this? Where did you exactly happen to come upon this finding?
I really doubt this because I hardly every trip, even if the Ness is using dtilt in rapid succession, di'ing back or fourth, or just standing still. (you should be getting pushed back anyways by dtilt)
We (as in the Ness boards) did some testing a while back. I believe it was 16 consecutive trips before the other character messed up its position through its animation.

About the pic, the link to the pic is broken :(.
 

kennypu

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We (as in the Ness boards) did some testing a while back. I believe it was 16 consecutive trips before the other character messed up its position through its animation.

About the pic, the link to the pic is broken :(.
I think I remember seeing a thread on this (a looooong time ago). I will test tomorrow because I can't use the wii right now, but as in the middle of his feet, is it the middle of foot, as in his shoes, and does it have to be in the middle of the opponent?
 

Gaussis

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The pic explained it all :(. It's a shame the link broke. It was discussed in the moveset discussion.

Which guiltily, I haven't updated >_>

To answer your question, it would be in the middle of the shoe, more or less. Actually a little closer to Ness.
 

CarVac

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I always hit them again after tripping. Dtilt is WAY TOO FAST. But, seriously, I had no idea that it could be a guaranteed trip.
 

kennypu

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Good Morning guys.
I'm testing now btw -.- It's going to be a video in training so i'll be using my crappy camera, but hey its something xP.
I'll edit this post when I get it up.

EDIT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m3K52kNlWY
i couldn't get 10+ consicutive hits until after I recorded this -.-. If you want to test on your own, use a character in which is easy to measure, I picked Ike. If you pick ike, just have ness's head a little bit away from ike's sword's tip.
I personally thought this is hard to pull off in a real match, but against a cpu, i was able to pull it off quite accurately(I might post that up too). Once you see the distance you must be from the opponent its quite easy.
Now that I think about it, that small distance might be the only part in which trips the opponent for a dtlit. most people spam dtilt, which results in the opponent going into that spot and trip.
Thanks Gaussis :3
 

AvariceX

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Yeah I woke up today and the first thing I did was test out the dtilt. It certainly won't be common to get the exact spacing for it, but any time I do my opponent is eating a dtilt to fsmash. I love this (re?)find :)
 

Gaussis

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Lol...when I looked for it, the pic links were broken :(.

Anywho, now we have a video. As for getting close, I find that Nair helps.
 

Brinzy

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Oh this is sweet and delicious stuff.

*opinion of Ness's ground game has changed from below average to average*
 

Xebenkeck

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Also something very good about the combo itself, is that MK is one of the easiest people to perform it on.

EDIT: and maybe we should rename it from 90% combo to something else, cause it really isn't a guarenteed 90% it depends where you are on stage.
 

YumClock

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No thanks.
Personally, putting PK in front of everything is a bit much. I never liked the name "PK jump," although I don't know the general consensus on that.

Impractical Practical is funny, but why not just IPC for short?
 

xoxokev

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mmhmm personally i dont like cheesy names for combos. i would stick with Footstool Combo, and just say that this is a dtilt to utilt setup for the combo
 

YumClock

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I have no qualms with Footstool. Any objections?
(although frankly, I don't see the footstool)
 

kennypu

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idc personally.
pk jump is called pk jump because you rise highly while performing a pk fire (don't quote me).
I think it doesn't matter whether we have a name for the combo or not, it'll most likely be only usable in the ness boards anyways. If its a name that is not so common, like my pk random, people won't know what I'm talking about unless they search it up. Footstool to jab lock combo would make more sense. But i don't like typing footstool to jab lock every time too T_T. for example i doubt every1 knows what hydroplaning is anyways xP. but yea, you get the point.
 

xoxokev

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idc personally.
pk jump is called pk jump because you rise highly while performing a pk fire (don't quote me).
I think it doesn't matter whether we have a name for the combo or not, it'll most likely be only usable in the ness boards anyways. If its a name that is not so common, like my pk random, people won't know what I'm talking about unless they search it up. Footstool to jab lock combo would make more sense. But i don't like typing footstool to jab lock every time too T_T. for example i doubt every1 knows what hydroplaning is anyways xP. but yea, you get the point.
hydroplaning is when squirtle, uses his pivot to slide while performing an usmash... thats pretty common, kind of like snake's mortar slide.
 

Uffe

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I'd say call it a footstool combo, but we already have one for Ness.
 

YumClock

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Ah. Well we can just call it the 90% for novelty reasons.

And xoxokev, how did you know you were going to double post?

Edit: seeing if the editing watermark is still there.
Edit: It's not.
 

xoxokev

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I'd say call it a footstool combo, but we already have one for Ness.
What is the footstool combo exactly? If I'm not mistaken it's footstool to psi magnet to jab lock? So then, this "90% combo" is basically just a set up to the footstool combo...
 

YumClock

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Oh, that's why the magnet is there.
So the footstool takes place right before the magnet?
 

Uffe

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What is the footstool combo exactly? If I'm not mistaken it's footstool to psi magnet to jab lock? So then, this "90% combo" is basically just a set up to the footstool combo...
I suppose. :S
 
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