Making Marth "SAFE"

[HADOOKEN]

I used to play alot of third strike, so my approach towards marth is to make his attacking pattern "safe".

so far, the safest tactics i use are a fastfalling Nair into Dtilts, or i just dash guard dash guard around until i see a chance to get a safe throw after a blocked attack.

i've seen this in the Drago vids, but he does it so well somethimes that its looks like he just "knows" when to guard grab.

if anyone has an attack pattern that they feel very comfortable and safe with, share here

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hahaha.

I like you.

Fine I will give it to you.

Use it well eh.

Two things.

1) I like to do d-tilt alot. D-tilt has IASA frames when Marth pulls his arm back. From there you cancel into any action. Use it to make brick walls.

2) My personal brick wall is d-tilt to dash back forward B. Good for reseting my spacing and just being more safe and defensive., But the d-tilt's true power is that it allows Marth to be reactive.

Poke with it and then wait a moment and react to what your opponent does. If they stat shielding then approach them. If they roll chase them down. If they spotdodge your d-tilt then dash in to claim your free hit.

It takes practice, but in time you will get it down.

There are other brick walls I like and use, but D-tilt to dash is my fave. You could also D-tilt to walk if you want more control.

Mess around and see what you come up with.

 

[HADOOKEN]

ask and u shall recieve!

thanks alot! i'll repost if i get good results

 

[∫unk]

I'm usually in the opponents face so I use a lot of grounddodging to tilt's or dancing blade (depending on if they shield I may not do the full combo and SH away after 1) to not show many opportunities to shield grab (most common anti-aggressive tactic).

Basically if you're close don't do laggy attacks cause you'll definitely get punished. Oh and mixing things up to make your opponent whiff == safest tactic of all.

I guess I didn't really answer your question >< I just wanted to show you that you can be aggressive and safe at the same time. EL plays a more patient and safe game.

 

[HADOOKEN]

well, i've been working on this the last couple of days and the only progress i've made is getting a feel for how to tip Fsmash an opponent if they slide back enough after a Dtilt and dont shield.

I guess the part im confused about is the Dtilt to "dash Back foward B"

do i need to set the c stick to b attacks for this to work, or do u just press foward B to cancle backdash?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Forward B can be done out of the opening dash. No need to customize controls.

 

[crazn137]

You just press forward b to turn around in your tracks.

EDIT: Emblem Lord hadn't posted before I started typing ._.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Like Junk, I am in close a lot, and I like to roll a lot to get behind the opponent to annoy them and then punish them from behind. I also love the dtilt, and i shdair spikethem into the ground, fastfall, then d tilt a few times, or go for a 3 or 4 hit Dancing Blade, but that's just me!

 

[LoyalSoldier]

well, i've been working on this the last couple of days and the only progress i've made is getting a feel for how to tip Fsmash an opponent if they slide back enough after a Dtilt and dont shield.

I guess the part im confused about is the Dtilt to "dash Back foward B"

do i need to set the c stick to b attacks for this to work, or do u just press foward B to cancle backdash?

Most of Marth's useful tricks should be completable using a standard setup. I haven't liked using a B-stick config as Marth although I won't say there is no use since someone always finds something useful.

 

[DarkRunner00]

Some safe things... other's may disagree...

Defensive attacks persay...

Dtilt nice walls... IASA, low % Fmash, High % Chase -> Fair or DB

Or...

SH DB (first) Fair... Not completely safe, but space DB to either to knockback, force them to shield, or graze it, and let the fair tip on the way down...

If you play walking Marth, it sets him up to do amazing things...

When Fair has medium knockback, Shieldbreaker is a good follow up

I dunno, about rolling anymore... I guess its useful to evade some attacks, but Air Dodge DI, and Side Stepping seems a lot more useful...

AND

Lastly, I wanna keep promoting on stage, facing inward, Dair... Let the back side do all the work...
The only flaw I see in it is Air Dodging it and then quickly get punished... Because anything else, Marth's lag will compare fairly equally

Iono...

Am I wrong to say, Countering off stage is better than Air Dodging off stage? (to negate edge guards, I mean)

 

[Mazaloth]

Shield->UpB
This is a good tactic that does better then a grab.
It is quick enough to end a combo, or to disorient your opponment.
I also like

Shield->Dtilt->1st SideB->Ftilt->Fair.

This one is difficult to preform, and agileness is the key, but if you can pull it off it is a good damage racker, and can get people off of you.

 

[DarkRunner00]

Shield->UpB
This is a good tactic that does better then a grab.
It is quick enough to end a combo, or to disorient your opponment.
I also like

Shield->Dtilt->1st SideB->Ftilt->Fair.

This one is difficult to preform, and agileness is the key, but if you can pull it off it is a good damage racker, and can get people off of you.

Shield -> Dolphin Slash... isn't that safe... it's actually not safe at all... I mean if it connects... more so sweetspots it basically kills, and It's one of the coolest kills...

But say... you miss, knockback sucked, or they perfect shielded that mother...

While grabbing... can still be punishable... Grabs lead to lots of fun combos... and chases and spikes...

I'm gonna try that combo... of yours it's interesting...

 

[Pierce7d]

Eh, stand still. Safest thing ever. I own people with this. Better get up that perfect shielding skill though.

 

[OmegaXF]

Marths moveset gives him a variety of options after a d-tilt or his aerials. D-tilt if it connects makes your opponent slide and if your close enough you can either connect with another one or grab or >B, I mean you have options. And Marth can poke through shield which akes him godly

 

[HADOOKEN]

Hey, thanks for all the tips, i havent been on for a few days, but ive been practicing Emblem Lords "Brickwall" technique, and although i dont like moving back after Dtilt, it is very very "safe".
I had been playing a Kirby player for the last month, so i got good and fastfalling my Nair. now i'm back in home and playing alot of snakes, so i have to get used to spamming more Fairs.
I'm intrested in trying Mazaloth's combo, and if i find anything useful I'll post it, the only thing cool i've been doing for the last few days is Usmash by the edge then jumping up and Dairing my opponent just by the ledge, reminds me of Melee

 

[Mighty_mo76]

Yeah, the dtilt > walk back > forward b is very nice indeed.

 

[~Dogma~]

i like dash at my opponent then DI back and keep doing empty Shs and FF fair or side b b b db and i also like to walk away from my oppopent then f smash tipper

 

[HADOOKEN]

I've been reading in other threads and i've been seeing alot of Uair into ____ or foward B into Fair.

I'm ganna go screw around with these later today, but i was just wondering if anyone already has some good set ups or knows how to get these to "chain"

 

[Pierce7d]

Fthrow -> Fair -> Uair -> Utilt/Usmash is good at low percentages.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Honestly Marth's safest moves are tipper fair and tipper d-tilt. After that it's a matter of controlling your movements and not putting yourself in risky situations that makes you safe.

It's generally harder to create effective brickwalls in Smash other then Falco's SHL in Melee.

 

[Cloudstealth]

I like to SH Fair, or Double Fair, or Nair and then fastfall in back. This is just hitting empty space in front of my opponent's shield.

Which leads to....

If my opponent rolls at me I can DB, rolls away I can chase with Fair or just pressure them to the ledge, or if they try to come in and Sidestep, I get another free DB, Fsmash, Dtilt, Fair, anything really. The best wall I can suggest is to keep fastfalling Nairs, if your doing it right, it will hit your opponent while your rising or falling. Depends on how you time it, but i've gotten it to scoop and punish someone who rushes in.

Eh, stand still. Safest thing ever. I own people with this. Better get up that perfect shielding skill though.

Yes, Prowling is fun.

My personal brick wall is d-tilt to dash back forward B. Good for reseting my spacing and just being more safe and defensive., But the d-tilt's true power is that it allows Marth to be reactive.

Poke with it and then wait a moment and react to what your opponent does. If they stat shielding then approach them. If they roll chase them down. If they spotdodge your d-tilt then dash in to claim your free hit.

It takes practice, but in time you will get it down.

There are other brick walls I like and use, but D-tilt to dash is my fave. You could also D-tilt to walk if you want more control.

Thanks for this Emblem Lord, I was looking for a safe way to Dtilt and space on the ground.

 

[Cril]

i wanted to make a thread for Marth "brick wall" strategies, but i suppose this is essentially the same thing. my favorite brick wall is sh fair to dtilt's , just barely keeping my opponent at tip range. Simple but effective. With solid DI this technique is as safe as it gets while also being very offensive. it is excellent for pressuring the opponent and it can often result in broken shields.

Another strategy i've been dabbling with is sh side b's and then neutral A air while i fall back down. it allows the neutral A air to come out closer to the ground thus hitting the shorter characters and improving overall safety, plus you can do anything out of this so its pretty useful.

 

[marthbrawlin]

this may be in the wrong thread but umm i dont see how snakes own marths i mean a snakes cypher is like a big Neo sign saying "please spike me" and i can beat snakes ._. or probably i haven't played any good snakes.

 

[Steel]

this may be in the wrong thread but umm i dont see how snakes own marths i mean a snakes cypher is like a big Neo sign saying "please spike me" and i can beat snakes ._. or probably i haven't played any good snakes.

You haven't played any good snakes.

 

[marthbrawlin]

wanna give a link to a vid showing a good snake in a match?

 

[HADOOKEN]

Snakes seem hard to play to me because you have to try to get in while their spamming gernades, then they Dash atk into Usmashes,... then they tilt u and u die....

but yeah, if they do upB to low or close to the ledge, they do get spiked. trade off

 

[BacklashMarth]

Ok this is for sure, snake + marth = one annoying match. I cant stand snake honestly mainly because....oh wait, there are threads already about how broken snake is. I digress. I just wanna pose a question about fastfalling though. I have noticed that i dont fastfall nearly as much as other ppl i know and have fought and i manage to get along fine. They way i figure is ppl expect u to short hop and fast fall all day and i dont like when my opponent knows what im going to do. For this reason, i make an effort sometimes to make marth float in the air with the 1st dancing blade poke instead of fast falling. If ur spacing is good, this is relatively safe (at least from my experience) and it can draw out ur opponent or make them react defensively. For example, snake is spamming greanades and u wanna approach, u can hop in closer and use dancing blade to stall in the air. One of 2 things will happen, 1) snake will attack *and probably miss cuz ur outside of his range or 2) snake will go defensive and shield or dodge. Either of these scenarios should leave ur opponent open in some way to a grab or an attack. The way i figure "air stalling" can be just as effective as "fast falling" if alternated whithin ur strategy correctly. If u disagree and think that fast falling is absolutely neccessary or superior to air stalling feel free to comment.

 

[DarkRunner00]

Ok this is for sure, snake + marth = one annoying match. I cant stand snake honestly mainly because....oh wait, there are threads already about how broken snake is. I digress. I just wanna pose a question about fastfalling though. I have noticed that i dont fastfall nearly as much as other ppl i know and have fought and i manage to get along fine. They way i figure is ppl expect u to short hop and fast fall all day and i dont like when my opponent knows what im going to do. For this reason, i make an effort sometimes to make marth float in the air with the 1st dancing blade poke instead of fast falling. If ur spacing is good, this is relatively safe (at least from my experience) and it can draw out ur opponent or make them react defensively. For example, snake is spamming greanades and u wanna approach, u can hop in closer and use dancing blade to stall in the air. One of 2 things will happen, 1) snake will attack *and probably miss cuz ur outside of his range or 2) snake will go defensive and shield or dodge. Either of these scenarios should leave ur opponent open in some way to a grab or an attack. The way i figure "air stalling" can be just as effective as "fast falling" if alternated whithin ur strategy correctly. If u disagree and think that fast falling is absolutely neccessary or superior to air stalling feel free to comment.

Snake isn't broken, and we're not turning this thread to something like that... He's good, but he has lots of flaws...

In the case of Mortar slide... practice shielding and the spacing with it... So, you walk just enough that it misses, and you punish (also assuming Snake went through your shield, this will allow you to forget the mortar cannon; in the case of perfectly spacing (so that snake is next to you -> dolphin slash + DI away from mortar shot)

Nade spamming... Air Dodge, catch and throw -> i think you can also use it as a "nade counter" and turn it on snake...

There can only be 2 nades at a time... so you'll have one and he'll have one (at most)

and... you don't even need to spike vs. snake -> grab their cypher = instant death... (this glitch won't allow snake to redo Cypher)

There's a snake match up thread... Good Luck...

Dtilt -> (dash or idle depending on opponents reaction) DB is a great thing... great thing...

And...

use, use DB to float, poke -> fair or continue DB is good if you've made your opponent think they go your style...

 

[BacklashMarth]

Thx for the advice against snake (cypher grab ftw!) i will use that. I was actually just trying to state my opinon about the neccesity of fast falling actually.

 

[HADOOKEN]

Snake isn't broken, and we're not turning this thread to something like that... He's good, but he has lots of flaws...

In the case of Mortar slide... practice shielding and the spacing with it... So, you walk just enough that it misses, and you punish (also assuming Snake went through your shield, this will allow you to forget the mortar cannon; in the case of perfectly spacing (so that snake is next to you -> dolphin slash + DI away from mortar shot)

Nade spamming... Air Dodge, catch and throw -> i think you can also use it as a "nade counter" and turn it on snake...

There can only be 2 nades at a time... so you'll have one and he'll have one (at most)

and... you don't even need to spike vs. snake -> grab their cypher = instant death... (this glitch won't allow snake to redo Cypher)

There's a snake match up thread... Good Luck...

Dtilt -> (dash or idle depending on opponents reaction) DB is a great thing... great thing...

And...

use, use DB to float, poke -> fair or continue DB is good if you've made your opponent think they go your style...

u mean to say you can just snag his cyph? NICE
thanks for the tips!