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Make Your Move 27: Jamcon 2 Comments Ahoy! Kefka and Wriothesley crash Jamcon

BridgesWithTurtles

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Thanks for the commentary, Kat. Very thorough and much appreciated. It's the middle of the night and I can't sleep, so I can take this time to engage with some of your feedback.

I was half-expecting the Quantum Masks from Crash 4 to be somewhere on Crash’s Specials to give him a big chunk of moveset potential
I considered the idea briefly, but felt that they might overcomplicate the more basic playstyle I had in mind from the start. I always wanted the focus to be on the weird hitbox and frame data quirks as the core basis for the set, and I felt like the crates (and Crash's annoying to fight attributes) offered enough zaniness on their own without having to throw in even more on top of that. A set that makes use of the Crash 4 masks has a ton of cool potential, but what they offer is simply beyond the scope of what I wanted this set to be. I'm not one to regret keeping everything old-school, either!

I didn’t expect this move to have such short active frames, as Crash’s spin lingers for a decent moment when you use it in his games, but it makes sense to give it short active frames to balance out its speed.
I went back on forth on how to translate the spin into a fighting game move. Making the hitbox more active was tempting, if to stay true to the source material more than anything, but ultimately, I found it more reasonable to restrict its active window in order to allow for the move's other characteristic traits to be retained. I knew it had to do a lot of knockback, and it also had to come out extremely fast. Together, those are both pretty annoying traits when shared by the same move, so making the move harder to connect with was a way to reign that in a bit. I feel like in the end, it still comes off as a snappy, kinetic attack, which is close enough to capturing the core essence.

design-wise you could be justified with making Crash’s Spin his Side Special. While Spin is his signature move, which is normally where Neutral Specials go, putting it on his Side Special would allow players to maintain their momentum when they go to input the move, which would match how Crash can spin while he’s moving around in his games
Certainly could have done this and I think it would've worked just as well. However, I ultimately decided to put it on Neutral Special because I actually wanted to put a little bit of restriction on how much momentum he could retain when initiating a spin. I wanted the player to have to stop for a moment in order to throw out a Spin, both as a way to sort of replicate the twitchy action of the source material as well as to place a slight restraint on how spammable the Spin is.

Extremely minor nitpick: I wonder if Wumpa Fruit should have their healing cut down from 10% to something like 4%.
Not really sure what the best value would be, to be honest. I originally had it at 5%, but figured that Crash is prone to doing so much self-damage that 10% seemed fair (he'd probably earn it right back anyway). Especially since Wumpa fruit only have a 30% spawn chance from a single type of crate anyway. But maybe it'd be better to increase their spawn rate but have them heal less?

I think that aerial crates should disappear over a set time like other third party Smash recoveries that leave constructs, especially with the aerial iron crate as fighters can bonk their head on it. Might be annoying if a Crash player accidentally sets an Up Special crate somewhere where it’s difficult to dispose of or they have to go through the trouble of whipping out the ! crate.
The intention was that bounce crates would be replaced when using the move again, but I might have failed to mention that or worded it poorly. I do agree in retrospect that it could be problematic in certain cases, though. Crash could just drop an iron crate at the stage's ledge to essentially cut off access for example, which I didn't account for until after posting the set. I will definitely address this particular issue when I make some edits.

I’m a big fan of the attack names in this set. They sound exactly like level names from the games (like Crash and Burn, Droid Void, etc.), and I have little doubt that’s the approach you were going for.
You caught me red-handed. I couldn't resist getting playful with those attack names! It would have been a disservice to the source material not to.

Didn’t know he had that flip kick follow-up as a thing in his games - I’m guessing it’s from the Skylanders games?
The flip kick is from Skylanders, yeah. I'm not a fan of those games, but I do think the way Crash was implemented in that series was pretty faithful to the character (much better than what they did with poor Spyro). I wanted the set to be mostly rooted in the original trilogy, but I'm definitely willing to take inspiration from other appearances of the character if I feel like it fits the playstyle I'm going for, and Skylanders does give Crash a little extra material to work with that slotted into my blueprint quite nicely.

I wonder if the TNT and Nitro Crates should deal less damage to Crash? Sure, it makes sense for them to deal him their full damage, but you could justify it as Crash taking less damage due to not being close to the blast compared to his opponents?
I believe I did specify that Crash takes half the amount of damage from these crates when using Fsmash. I could be misremembering, though.

D-Smash has a fun/funny attack name and animation.
I am admittedly proud of the name on this one.

“By the way, do yo-yos spin the opposite direction in Australia?” I don’t know - I don’t play with yo-yos, and don’t have any on-hand to test this (I also don’t know which direction yo-yos are typically supposed to spin in).
Don't think too hard about it. The question was just meant to be a joke.

I could see Crash’s Down Air body slam being a good “tech chase” from F-throw if you choose to jump and end it early, as that leaves opponents prone beneath you.
A good observation. Part of me wants to add this as a footnote in the set now.

I don’t need to tell you that this moveset perfectly captures Crash’s gameplay and character, just as you have done with all your sets recently.
Mission accomplished then. Thank you!
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
129
CRASH BANDICOOT (Turtles)

As someone who grew up watching Crash gameplay videos, I’m quite familiar with the series overall, and this manages to get across the general vibe of the character very well. While my personal plans for him are more slower-paced to get across the slower pace his games are played at, making him super mobile is also a valid choice that gets across the “cartoon character” feel. Crash has all the moves you’d expect him to have - his spin, slide, and body slam, plus a crate attack and the Wumpa Bazooka. All are put to fairly good use, with the spin being a move that deals very high knockback and comes out frame 2, but has super short active frames and range that means that Crash has to put in effort to use it and not get punished on whiff. The crates are the most interesting part of the set, being constructs that can be thrown out that serve as traps for the foe and methods of making his moves last longer through hitbox extension; the TNT and Nitro crates in particular are very powerful traps, but ones that Crash himself can fall victim too, very fitting for the character. My only real issue is that the bazooka’s projectiles have too short of a gap between firing for what is meant to be a somewhat telegraphed projectile, but the fact it's gated behind a stance may make it work as intended.

The rest of Crash’s kit is fairly simple, but the character doesn’t really lend himself to a complex moveset so it works out. It keeps a fairly consistent theme of him having moves that come out much faster than they should - DSmash is frame 5, for one - but having narrow hitboxes and little reward besides damage on hit, a fun way of getting across the character and his series’ penchant for twitch platforming. Of Crash’s moves, FAir stands out, a flying kick that works well with his established mechanics and can be canceled into DTilt if landed at just the right time - though I am worried that his recovery is a bit too good with it, since it moves him forward 3 whole Units with no mention of distance reduction on repeated uses. The grab game was a personal highlight, with the pummel serving as a built-in DI mixup and the side throws being nice homages to Twinsanity that also serve as methods of forcing the opponent into crates. It all adds up to Crash feeling suitably manic to play as and against with his multitude of ways to take the foe with him; the only real issue is that there is no mention of him saying “WOAH” when he loses a stock.

While the set is at its core simpler than the maker’s other sets, Crash is still a set I highly approve of that makes the most of the character and his series’ associated setpieces.

Link to full comment repository here!
 

Slavic

Ask not the sparrow how the eagle soars
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taco bell, probablyn't
You Call This Archeology??
Indiana Jones by Rychu Rychu is quite an enjoyable set for what it is, and I have to give credit to Ry here as this is the first moveset that's really managed to break me out of my MYM paralysis I've had as of late. Indy's by no means complex and ambitious and instead plays heavily with the characterization of Dr. Jones, some classic adventure-action influence. I adore controlled or reactive RNG mechanics in sets, and I love how Indy handles these artifacts. It gives some mysticism to them even from a gameplay perspective, tension building for all parties to see what insane find the archaeologist uncovers. The moveset really nails the energy Harrison Ford brings to the character, simultaneously cool and bumbling throughout the inputs, with the animations often correlating well to the game state Indy's likely to be in. Junior here feels a lot like a Belmont given better mobility and that's far from a bad pitch for a character.

While Indy's gameplay is "simple", focused primarily on Jones' positioning with his plethora of mobility tools, the simplicity lends itself to creating a solid picture of this moveset. Indy treats many of the problems he encounters like a Gordian knot, cutting (or shooting) directly through otherwise complex situations. While part of me longs to see an inclusion of iconic Indy traps throughout the main moveset, I respect the vision for the set as is. Likewise, Indy's charm is a big part of his character, and while I think some variety of a summon or bonus character on his set would be fitting for how he tends to adventure, it would also add some conceptual clutter to what Jones is at his core. As such, I'm left with some feelings at war with themselves in terms of how I feel about the set direction, but not because of the actual set direction itself. Perhaps an alternate charming move, a throw where he dips the foe like he's about to kiss them out of the whip but instead delivering a punch would be my own suggestion for a Jones set.

Side Special is a big highlight move for me, having immediate and obvious synergy with his need to dig. The blanket projectile immunity is something you don't see often in moves, and it's an incredibly funny and fitting effect for the move it's attached to. Gives me strong Stunt Spectacular vibes which is a big plus. The ability to shoot out of Dash Attack is both fun and evocative, and in general a lot of these attacks have a lot of character to them. Item Z-Drop for Down Air is so funny to me, I love it, but also wonder if it's a little silly as an item spawning option? Also, and the biggest complaint I have by far, is the snubbing of the Crystal Skull. Absolutely unforgivable.

Jokes aside, I'm kind of on the edge about the balance of the artifacts Indy can use, especially the Staff of Ra and the Grail. Ra's not the most egregious, I just think 30% and a shield break are a really powerful combo, and maybe the damage should be dropped a bit. Chalice is a bit trickier as its effect is exactly what it should be. I think it dips from a really cool move to an annoying one when combined with the fact that Indy also possesses not one but two solid recovery tools at his disposal on a harder-than-average to kill character. If Indy was some way easier to kill the Chalice would feel better for the set I think, making it a real lifeline for him instead of where he is now where it's basically just an extra stock when played reasonably well.

That said, I really enjoyed Indiana Jones, a set that held my focus surprisingly well! I can tell both the love and the understanding you've got for the character and that always leads to an enjoyable read. The set doesn't go in directions that end up exciting me entirely, and I wish it'd be a little goofier at times on top of where that balance currently lies in the set. Thank you for the set, it really does Indy justice regardless of my nags. Good work!
 

GolisoPower

Smash Master
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Sep 17, 2017
Messages
4,337
The Abyss Stared Right Back And Smiled
Knull by n88 n88

From two-time MYM champion n88 comes Knull, comes the big bad king of the Symbiotes in the Marvel multiverse. And man it was insane reading through this set. Basically, he's a character who covers the stage in Void that he can use to his advantage by upgrading his attacks, something that strangely enough reminds me of Eldlich from 25...and FrozenRoy's Artorias set from MYM18. Not to mention I'm pretty sure he counters Eldlich as well thanks to his ability to full-on steal minions by hitting foes with his Smash attacks with that same Symbiotic void. The playstyle in question seems to be all about being as oppressive as possible, and the first tool in this is the Side Special, a Symbiote whip that can be charged until a sweet spot that follows generally the same rules as Ike's Eruption in that you can throw it out just before the final stage for an extra powerful attack. Speaking of Ike's Eruption, NSpec is pretty much this without the charging aspect, so it makes for an interesting combination of anti-air and priming your surroundings with void. On top of that, we've got the eight-way flying attack that is Up Special. It's genuinely kind of scary when you combine Wings of Rebellion with Fox Fire like this, but considering this dude's the top brass of the entire Symbiote race that makes sense. And last but certainly not least, Down Special is arguably up there with the best command grabs I've ever read. It basically creates a giant Master Hand Symbiote that attempts to grab the foe and make a monster burst of damage. Honestly, the best part of the set, and that alone is making me consider voting for this set in this JamCon!

Now I love some of the other normals in this set, such as how disrespectful and haphazard Knull's F-tilt is in terms of animation and how just generally eldritch and powerful he is overall. He has a whole army of Symbiotes at his beck and call that he can expand by stealing other minions, he is no slouch by himself, and he just does not want to take his insignificant little insect of a foe seriously. Overall, he's just insane in every sense of the word, and I just absolutely love it all. US's set has some big shoes to fill here, but you're really in the lead for me so far.

"Can A Ghost Get A Stand" Or "How The Supernatural Was Involved With Inheritance Fraud"
Phantom Shadow by U UserShadow7989

Capping off the JamCon with a banger we have one of the OG Scooby-Doo villains: the Phantom Shadow, a duo that brings with them the tricks and traps of their original appearance in a set that has a lot of potential to be big-brained in all the right ways. Their main mechanic lies in there being two of them at the same time, the copy being summoned to attack in your place or the copy being primed with NSpec to perform a certain string of combos that you can work with independently. The overall execution of this almost reminds me of a Stand from HttF or a Persona from P4AU in a sense, and I'd love to exploit that in some manner if they were modded into the game. I never would've guessed to use the manacle as a command grab either, that's actually kind of creative in how it takes advantage of the immediate design of the character with that Side Special. It really punishes hasty burst movement and gives Phantom Shadow a means to stop foes from escaping, especially if they're taking a beating from a body double. Down Special I especially love, having an effective C4 that uses the input you used prior to planting it. It certainly helps with combo extension from the other side of the stage and even disrupts any momentum by having them detonate. And then we've got the free flight Up Special, albeit wire-powered, for some insane air combo potential and edgeguarding insanity that'd make Steve **** bricks, the big bad cherry to top off this massive, haunted sundae.

His animations really have that sort of old-timey Classic Era charm, emulating classic Scooby-Doo villain maneuvers like kidnapping Daphne, using hidden trap doors, and taking advantage of the stage to scare people into submission. I especially like the chandelier Up Smash and the swooping Down Aerial that shows off their absolute deviousness in it all. I really loved this from beginning to end as someone who watched a bit of classic Scooby-Doo as a kid, and applaud the effort you gave to emulate those simpler times. Nice work there, US, you got away with it even with us meddling setmakers!

And with that, just after Phantom Shadow and Tamatoa, my vote goes to...Knull! Congrats n88, you are killing it!
 
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WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
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Jun 10, 2014
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Somewhere Out There
You know what they say, Time is Money, so it’s high time to close up this JamCon!

Overall, we got as many voters as we got sets, which is just wonderful participation all-round. However, not all what glitters is gold, as only one of these money-grubbing movesets can go home with the prize! Let’s tally the votes shall we?

At a shared third place, we have Buzz Buzzard by BrazilianGuy BrazilianGuy and Drifblim by Arctic Tern Arctic Tern , both receiving one vote and netting their own voter bonus for voting in the JamCon!

In second came Phantom Shadow by U UserShadow7989 netting two votes and a voter bonus!

Finally, going home with the
gold is n88 n88 and his set Knull with a whopping four votes plus a voter bonus!

Well, that’s it for now. Get back to work and I’ll cash you all later!
 
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WeirdChillFever

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Jun 10, 2014
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Somewhere Out There
CA550CBC-09A0-4B9E-A0B7-D94B50BA4DF8.jpeg
“Regina George is flawless…”

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”I heard Regina George’s set has two writers and 20k words”

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“I heard Regina’s Up Air deals 19.7% damage.”

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”I heard Regina‘s Up Special comes from a fighting game….from Japan”

“One time, she will punch me in the face…

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“It is awesome”

Thanks to Arctic Tern Arctic Tern for a flawless collab on this joint set
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,257
Location
Australia
This might be the most wild character choice we’ve gotten this contest - I love it. This character choice just feels so out of Tern’s wheelhouse, and most of MYM in general. Love the Smashboards post write-up for this set, which I mentioned in the chat but will put here as well for posterity’s sake. Also, I didn’t realize until reading this set that most of the “rumours” about Regina on the Smashboards post are false, like the fact that she has an Up Special based on a Japanese fighting game.

  • I’m guessing the yellow text is WCF’s writing, and the white is Tern’s?
  • Don’t think Down Special explicitly mentions what determines whether Karen or Gretchen is summoned, but the Shield Special input implies that tapping B summons Gretchen and holding B summons Karen. Summoning and controlling other people is just the type of boost that low potential regular humans need in MYM, and it makes sense on a manipulative queen bee character like Regina George. I’m fond of the quotes that accompany each of the commands Regina can give to her cronies.
  • Self-banning moves that Karen and Gretchen can use kind of reminds me of Kristoph Gavin’s Up Special, only it’s imposed on minions. Here it serves to let players get more specific with the minions’ actions, at the cost of requiring a lot of time and thought to ban a good chunk of their moves for the most optimal outcome. The mechanic gets particularly spicy when banning a move “prevents” Regina from using it too many times, or else she’ll lose access to her minions and her popularity, which naturally makes her a lot less effective. It’s very in-character for a character who is obsessed with their social image to have to juggle with this kind of thing.
  • I like it when sets reference crowd cheering. It’s such an easy thing to forget when writing movesets.

Neutral Special is an interesting move - logging in stale attacks from an enemy to deal them high amounts of chip damage when they use it, effectively “banning” them from using it in a way that’s not straight-up obnoxious. It helps that Regina has minions who can act as punching bags to stale enemy attacks. Regina can then spend her False Rumor on what is effectively a powerful z-dropping tool. I kind of love the goofy aesthetic behind opponents taking damage from rumours, and the fact that Regina can drop magical exploding fire books in Smash.

While not a real complaint, Gretchen’s ability to make moves that hit her stale twice gave me the impression that Regina’s Neutral Special would be more effective if a move you logged in was more staled, and part of me wishes that it was. I’m also a bit unsure of how starting a Bad Rumor works mechanically - it sounds like you have to log in 3 moves from an opponent that they have staled, then you can use the move a fourth time to start a Bad Rumor and make them take chip damage from one of those 3 moves you logged in. Logging in multiple moves gives you more picks between which move you want to turn into a Bad Rumor, whereas logging in the same move gives you less choice but makes World Burn more powerful.

  • “she paid good money for her sick ride, she ain’t gonna waste it running over some fat plumbers.” This is a funny line.
  • I like the mental image and gameplay aspect of Regina being able to pick up her goons with her car and casually drop them off.
  • Regina’s friend-less Side Special is just plain funny, and interesting for being a ridiculously powerful high-risk self-damaging move that can be used as a secondary recovery or to regain your popularity. Frame 8 might be scarily fast for a move this powerful, though.
  • Forward Smash definitely has a lot of Tern presence. It helps to sell the potency behind the Plastics and how strong they can be if you’re willing to sit through and ban most of their moves to make them use your potentially powerful F-Smash.
  • D-Smash is fun for its direct use of the Plastics, and ability to combo into itself or other Smashes thanks to its semi-spiking angle and ability to delay when the Plastics use it by making them go through a move with high end lag. Easily my favourite move in the set so far.

  • F-tilt is a fun bullying tool, with a surprising amount of depth for such a simple spammable move when shields and DI follow-ups are taken into account. It’s a fun little unorthodox F-tilt that’s not some form of ranged attack. It synergizes surprisingly well with the Plastics - it’s one of the most used but least useful attacks on the Plastics, as they don’t spam it, but the fact that it’s optimal for Regina to spam means that banning the Plastics from using it also prevents her from spamming it! And this means she can’t use it as an easy set-up into Plastic attacks. This is some very good design and use of the set’s mechanics here.
  • Is Regina’s purse filled with rocks? That Dash Attack hits surprisingly hard.
  • I love how a move that uses one fendi pursue is immediately followed up by a move that uses two fendi purses.
  • B-air’s auto-cancel with the Plastics is surprisingly cool, especially when it makes a ton of sense for your friends to catch your fall flavour-wise. Sensible and meaningful hard interactions with minions is a big plus.
  • U-air’s writing rocks (nice work, WCF), and it’s funny to see a randomly powerful hair flip move (read: not a flip kick unlike most U-airs!).
  • D-air is a pretty neat move, thanks to its sweetspot and sourspot on the final hit making it a versatile option.
  • Regina’s grab and pummel animation are savage.
  • “Normally, in this scenario, Regina would try to talk things out with her foe, try to coerce them to her side, maybe make them one of the Plastics. But that’s how conflicts are resolved in Girl World. Smash is Animal World.” This line is incredible. Might be one of my favourite lines ever featured in a set written by Tern.
  • I like the characterization behind unpopular F-throw where Regina tries to take her opponent down with her as a spiteful suicide option. It’s also fun to see WCF add on a funny quip right at the end of the move.
  • I approve of summoning random props to humiliate the opponent. As well as B-throw’s ability to instantly start a Rumor for her Neutral Special.

  • Regina’s Side Taunt is great. It would be fun to see what she has to say about sets from you two.

All and all, Regina is a set that I found surprisingly compelling once she got going, which is impressive for a tricky character choice that could have been done as a joke. The two of you proved to be a good team, where WCF’s concepts (handling most of the Specials) were backed by Tern’s strong melee sense. Both of you had some fun writing here, to the point where I would have found it hard to distinguish between the two of you if your words weren’t color-coded. While he probably had stronger concepts and more potential, Regina felt more “clean” and realizing of her potential than Archeon in some senses, which led to me preferring her. She also sits up there as one of Tern’s solid entries this contest, which there are honestly a lot of at this point. I also quite enjoyed this set’s aesthetics: its move headers, the attack names and move animations and descriptions all did a great job of selling Regina George as a character.
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
129
SAIKA TOTSUKA (Kat)

Saika is a set based around tennis, which ends up surprisingly interesting as a basis. His NSpec is the obligatory tennis ball toss that both he and the foe can redirect with their attacks, but he also gets a bonus to the amount of damage it can deal if it passes the blast zone (since the goal of tennis is to get the ball past the opponent). On the flip side, the opponent can increase the amount of time it takes Saika to summon the ball by scoring against him based on the same mechanics, essentially turning the match into a literal tennis match. Adding to the tension is the fact that Saika’s moves have much faster endlag if they hit a ball (or the foe) then if they miss, encouraging him to use the ball as a “cancel” of sorts on approach. Lastly, he can summon his clubmates in order to help serve balls in other directions to help throw off dodge timing on the otherwise tiny projectile.

The rest of the set gets fairly good mileage out of that core concept, and gets a bit in-depth with mechanics most sets don’t even consider. Saika has high dash and air speed, but a low initial dash and low air acceleration that means he struggles to approach without space to build momentum, which his endlag mechanic encourages the foe to build. While most of his attacks are fairly basic, they still do interesting things with the various angles he can send the tennis ball at, like Dash Attack having a hitbox that hits away from him and DAir having a radial hitbox. And there are still some standout attacks in there, with USmash being a leaping serve that deals more damage the higher up Saika is, that can also have him leap forwards for a strong burst option. The only thing that stood out to me is the fact that Jab’s long active frames - which have a sourspot at the end that enables combos - aren’t mentioned as a means of punishing spot dodges, despite those being mentioned as a general way to deal with his offense and the fact that the overall lack of active frames are an explicit weakness of his.

While this isn’t the most groundbreaking set by Kat this contest, Saika is still a worthy read, one I particularly liked for getting a lot out of a set basis that doesn’t seem like it’d make for an interesting set.

CAPTAIN GUTT (tunz)

Gutt is a surprisingly ambitious set, with the primary gimmick of being able to summon his crew to aid him. These don’t act like standard minions, but rather serve as buffs to certain attacks of his, though ones with a finite HP pool; it reminds be a bit of Venom Strange in how the minions are tied to specific inputs. I actually like the way they work with Gutt’s regular moves, like increasing the range of FTilt, specializing the fairly versatile UTilt, or Dash Attack becoming a pseudo-projectile. DSpec is also fairly interesting, being a move that allows him to change his air momentum on a whim, which works well with his poor ability to actually control his air movement.

Gutt’s playstyle is centered around aggression, which is very in-line with what’s in the intro section. I always like aggressive playstyles, and I particularly enjoy the mixup game he has going on - in particular, the DTilt, which has a surprising amount of mindgames built in and has detailed follow ups depending on whether the opponent techs or not. The highlights are generally the interactions with Gutt’s crew, which generally add a good bit to the moves they apply to without feeling too similar to each other for the most part. I do feel you could have more diverse applications of crewmates, however, like using them as walls to approach (which would probably be in-character if done in the right way); the mixup potential from the fact only certain moves of his change also isn’t explored. Lastly, and this is admittedly a minor nitpick, Gutt’s name comes from the fact that he guts his enemies with his claws but he doesn’t actually do that at any point in the set; he does seem to be more of a swordfighter from what I know but a throw animation involving the claws would suffice.

While Gutt’s concepts certainly aren’t explored to the best of their ability, they are nonetheless solid, and what is there is enough to elevate this into easily my favorite set of yours yet.

Link to full comment repository here!
 
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Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,291
Location
Hippo Island
Indiana Jones by Rychu
On a fundamental level, I got no notes. Indy's whip is well utilized as CR-ACKing smashes, tying up and disabling foes, and a tether recovery. His other attacks are just as flavorful; I love how FTilt is like cutting through foliage, and his punches really emphasize that larger-than-life aspect to his persona. The gun also helps with that action hero vibe, it reminds me of holding the strafe button in something like Contra or Ratchet&Clank.

It's kinda funny how unique Side Special is without really doing that much. Just the simple fact that it's a projectile-immune dash you use to run AWAY from the aggressor is pretty clever.

Digging up the movie relics is a fun reference and also a nifty way to actually get his archeology involved. I like how they're crazy OP single-use items, but I think the Grail actually goes too far. Assuming he waits till a semi-high percent to use it, this is effectively an entire extra stock each time he finds it, and it's waaaayyyy easier to perform the activation animation than the Bonus Flag item.

Tying into the above point, I think he could use an across-the-board damage buff. Especially since he has very little combos by design, that means each individual attack needs to deal something respectable so he doesn't take forever to get a single KO. Otherwise he'll quickly become a 1-trick pony of fishing for the Staff and the Lance, with a slow grind to KOs when they're used up. Combine that with the Grail, and I can see his 1v1 matches quickly turning into a slog.

Regardless of my critiques, I had a really good time with this one, great job! It even inspired me to finally watch The Last Crusade, which in turn reminded me of why Indy is such an icon to begin with.

Snakeman.EXE by UserShadow7989
Megaman and green snakes, two things my original MYM run are known for. And yes, I did intentionally read this right after Indiana Jones to post their comments together.

This too was a great moveset with a lot of flavor. It's fun how the obligatory lunging snake bite is on FTilt, with an even crazier FSmash. BN chips are a good fit to spice up his smashes, and he even uses that basic sword chip for FAir. I swear I've seen that sword animation on every BN sprite sheet ever.

His gameplay does indeed feel like a mix of Battle Network "specific area denial" and a defensive snake. I like the subtly distinct trait of both his grounded up inputs being arcing projectiles. His core gimmick of only being vulnerable during attacks reminds me of how Ridley would often be balanced in MYM, by having his tail be invulnerable outside of attacks, but with the pot, Snakeman goes from a Ridley DTaunt hurtbox to Olimar. I actually wonder if he's a bit too optimized; he feels a like a power-crept Simon, who can already be frustrating to fight for characters vulnerable to zoning. Primarily, it's the fact that he can create multiple holes that last longer than Holy Water while also generating their own projectiles.

Despite having played BN2, I don't remember fighting this guy whatsoever. It's possible I never reached him, I quit when the game expected me to navigate 20 screens of Undernet without a map.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,257
Location
Australia
I was genuinely looking forward to this set, not just for the character choice but also for being your potential heavy-hitter this contest due to having a much bigger wordcount than your other sets.

Neutral Special, AKA the crewmate-summoning move, is a surprisingly well-designed input and moveset hook I’ve wanted from your sets. Rather than act as a traditional minion-summoning move, it primes one of 6 of Gutt’s crewmates to appear when he uses one of the 4 attacks in his set that are designated to that crewmate, giving that attack a boost. Most of the crewmates have a small amount of HP and are put on a 9 second cooldown when they’re defeated, but they only appear when Gutt performs one of the 4 attacks that involves them, and their HP is reset if they aren’t used for 4 seconds. The crewmate also has super armour, so they can beat out attacks that fail to one-shot them and act as pseudo-counters, but their HP isn’t so high that it’s obnoxious for opponents to get around (curiously, the only crewmate with HP in the double-digits is assigned to the set’s more committal inputs…). Increasing the crewmates’ HP in FFA matches is also a nice touch that further sells the amount of thought that was put into this move. Gutt can only have one crewmate out at a time: players have to consider what inputs each of the crewmates affect, and can choose to be conservative with their crewmate or go nuts at the risk of exposing and endangering them. The size of each crewmate isn’t noted in comparison to Gutt, but the image at the end of Neutral Special does give readers an idea. They do say a picture is worth a thousand words.

Also, I like how each of the crewmates are color-coded throughout this moveset.

  • Gutt’s Side Special is a bit simplistic compared to the strong start of his Neutral Special. It feels more like F-tilt or F-Smash material, but its use and applications as a melee tool are well-defined (mix-up between going for hit 2 or not to catch out shielding opponents). I like the whole approach of “this move is less versatile than X move in Smash, but it’s stronger to compensate,” rather than being the other way around.
  • Down Special is a simple enough move that gives Gutt some solid aerial mobility in spite of his poor air speed. I think it’s fine enough as a Special, and something that Gutt would really appreciate to escape from disadvantage (land and avoid being juggled) given his big body.

The first and second hit of Gutt’s Jab and Side Special do feel rather similar. It’s good that the set does acknowledge this and makes points for different use cases between them (at least the second hits), but it does make Side Special feel obsolete nonetheless. You could replace Side Special with something different and potentially make Gutt a much stronger set. Maybe it works like Neutral Special, but it sends them charging forward as a pseudo-projectile? Lets the set play into its crewmate mechanics in further and more interesting ways given their HP and cooldowns, where letting them loose runs the risk of them getting hit and forced into cooldown (could tie into well into Gutt’s manipulation of his crew). Each of the crewmates could have their own properties as pseudo-projectiles - one might move super fast and be good at pestering opponents quickly, another might move slowly and be good at covering Gutt’s approach. Dash Attack also mentions that Gutt likes to toss his crewmates around.

  • I’m not sure if the Ice Age movies have blood in them since they’re kids’ movies, but as a rule of thumb I personally wouldn’t include bleeding status effects on fighters if blood is not depicted in their source material, even if it would make sense for them to draw blood from enemies from a characterization perspective. That aside, DoT from a dagger is a fine enough status effect, even if it does have a little overlap with Squint’s boon of trading KO power for damage. To be fair, you’ve got a number of attack variations to work with, and you’re still in the process of learning the ins and outs of Smash’s game mechanics.
  • Dash Attack’s crewmate attack is actually pretty fun, as it directly plays off of Gutt’s own attack for some big damage.
  • Down Tilt is a nice, solid melee attack with noted tech-chase applications that I like to see in a moveset. This makes me want to see Side Special reworked into a projectile attack even more. Would it also be worth mentioning that D-tilt could possibly shield-poke enemies?
  • The Squint-boosted D-tilt is a fun little move, as it offers varying outcomes depending on whether Gutt’s kick left its enemy airborne or whether they teched or not on the ground. He can pop airborne enemies upwards, or extend the hitstun of enemies who fail to tech so Gutt can get bigger follow-ups on them. Squint can also deny opponents from getting up in place if they tech, which is a fun take on tech-chasing.

  • It might be worth mentioning that attacks that use Flynn can serve as pseudo-counters against weaker attacks, since he has the highest HP of all your crewmates. In this sense, I like how his F-Smash is weaker than Gutt’s to balance this out, not to mention it comes out faster and feels more usable if you’re wanting an attack that’s threatening in neutral. Does seem strange that Dobson’s F-Smash comes out faster and KOs earlier than Flynn’s, though.
  • Gutt’s Up Smash has a fun animation. Part of me wishes that Gutt’s creativity and mastery over primitive weaponry was on a Special move, like maybe he could produce a battering item and use the move again to split the battering item to change its properties and get two uses of it as a throwing item. Might be too complex to include though, and redundant given he already has a bunch of extra inputs and variations on his attacks thanks to his Neutral Special.
  • Gupta Down Smash has a really cool animation. I think the “hit on both sides of you simultaneously bit” feels a bit too same-y as Gutt’s regular Down Smash, which is a bit of a trap that 2-in-1 sets can fall into. As the Gupta D-Smash KOs later than Gutt’s, perhaps it should have less end lag and be safer against shields? The attack hits twice instead of once, so it would leave Gutt and Gupta open to attack if it misses anyway.

  • “REJOICE, FOR I DO NOT HAVE TO WRITE THREE MOVES PER MOVE FOR THIS SECTIO-” Goliso feels your pain with Wolf Witch Veronica.

The Aerial moves are refreshing since they don’t involve Gutt’s crewmates. I think this section is a bit weaker than the others before it, though I can’t exactly pinpoint why. There’s an appeal in N-air, F-air and B-air being straightforward strong moves, the former being a simple OoS option, but they feel somewhat isolated from the rest of the set. Perhaps you could talk about their safety against shields, landing lag or use-cases in neutral? For instance, B-air could be used as a RAR (reverse aerial rush - dash, turn around and short-hop so you can quickly execute B-air near the ground, could be useful with Gutt’s ranged B-air as a way of spacing and playing neutral against shielding opponents). There is also a missed opportunity to talk about how Gutt’s Up Special and Down Special can play into his Aerials, especially the latter given it offers him a nice boost forward that could let him burst into his powerful sideward aerials. My favourite of Gutt’s Aerials is his D-air for how unique it is as a one-two punch (didn’t really know that Duck Hunt’s D-air worked like that, that’s actually cool) and 50/50 applications. As the first hit of Gutt’s D-air doesn’t deal knockback, I could see players landing before the second hit comes out so they can use it to combo into his grounded moves, something Gutt can’t do with his other Aerials. A bit like Marth and Lucina’s Neutral Air, but easier to time here due to the wider window between the first and second hit.

  • Dobson being used for both the Forward Throw and Back Throw, which are both good at KO’ing, makes me wonder if DI mix-ups could be involved.

All and all, I can safely say that Captain Gutt is by far and away your best set, as he has a very good Neutral Special and some pretty solid melee that’s conscious about how it works together. He’s high enough for me that I could see myself voting for him if this contest doesn’t get too insanely competitive. I think there could be more to Gutt through his Side Special and perhaps Down Special, but if you were to change the former it would prop up the set further.
 

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,530
Welcome, one and all, to Jamcon 27-2!

If you're not up on jamcons, here's everything you need to know. We all try and write movesets quick-like (y'all have til the end of Tuesday). Then for a couple weeks after that, anyone who's commented all the sets can vote for their favorite. When our two weeks are up, votes are tallied, a winner is declared, and they get to pick the next jamcon theme. Simple as that!

But if you want things broken down more thoroughly, well, here ya go:

  • MYM’s rules and Smashboards’ rules (including those ever-so-important Terms of Service) still apply to the jamcon and sets submitted to the jamcon. Behave!
  • No submitting movesets you had laying around! Having a stray note is fine, but the stats and mechanics and moves all have to be written during the con in order to achieve 100% jam.
  • In order to vote, a reader must read and comment EVERY set submitted to the jamcon. Except their own, if they submitted one. Find a private space to give yourself feedback.
  • Anyone who submits and votes gets an extra 0.5 votes for their set, as a reward for going the extra mile.
  • A tied win is a tie. No breaking it, everyone is a winner. Fight to the death to pick the next jamcon theme. Or just agree on one.
  • You can submit joint sets or submit multiple sets to the jamcon! Writing multiple sets in a jamcon is… ambitious! Please make sure you're staying hydrated and getting plenty of sleep.
  • Jamcon submissions can be silly but shouldn’t be straight jokesets. Don’t get me wrong, if something possesses you to write a jokeset this weekend, godspeed.
  • Sets can be freely edited during the submission period. Once the deadline hits and we’re into the reading period, major edits are no longer allowed. Minor edits (proofreading, number fixes, presentation, extras) are totally fine. But if you want to replace a move or something, that’s gonna have to wait until after the reading and voting happens. Feel free to edit to your heart’s content once reading period is past!
  • Oh, and this is a real simple one, but do let us know if a set is a jamcon submission. Just label it in the post (or in the set itself, if the set’s in a google doc, as it probably is). If for some reason you can’t put the information there, you could also let me know by simply wandering the Boston metro area and screaming real loud.

Hopefully you were real excited for that in-depth review because this jamcon's theme is...

DEEP

If you're in search of ideas on what to do with that...
  • That could mean your character hails from the ocean depths, or from deep space.
  • Perhaps they've got some real deep lore.
  • Heck, could be they've just got a lot of depth of character.
  • On a more mechanical note, maybe they can go deep off-stage!
  • It might just be that they're a particularly deep cut.
    • There are actually no examples of this in MYM history to link :(
But I've come to expect that y'all probably have ideas of your own, so feel free to interpret the theme any way you like!
 
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SaltySuicune

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 22, 2021
Messages
23
Several drones fly at high speeds through the rather steampunk looking interior of the bilding. You see a flame appearing on someone's hand before your pov is directed to one of those drones been blasted by a fireball.

The hustle and bustle of the prison cafeteria is suddenly broken by the sounds of many steps and the voices of a group of guards.

A purple shillouette jumps over one of the dinner tables with relative ease.

"Get him." shout the guards as the fugitive breezes through the place.

The floorboards clank under everyone's feet. Another flame bursts from his palm and is shot into his pursuers' direction.

He jumps into an elevator just as the doors close. As the elevator stops in the inferior floor bellow that, he sprints, stepping on a puddle and getting both feet wet, only to find himself cornered by a second group of drones and guards, almost as if they were waiting for him.

A blast of blueish freezing air messes up the man's hair, and when he looks down his feetare encasted in a layer of ice. A tall, black-haired man walks in, the guards move out of the way as he approaches the purple clothed individual, twirling some rather spiky handcuffs on his index finger. "Not bad, not bad at all. I gotta say, you've given us some trouble." He says in a nonchallant tone "Almost too much trouble."

He handcuffs the other man and takes his little leather pouch, the shorter male tries to manifest a flame but it is inmediately put out by a gust of the same freezing wind as before. "Lets see what it is that this whole ordeal is all about." When he inserts his hand in the bag all he can pull out is a weird shiny sphere with a rather... unfamiliar symbol engraved on it, and a golden aura enveloping the ball itself.

"What the..."



Edit: This is not a jamcon entry by the way. I've seen people getting confused about it.​
 
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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,257
Location
Australia
Here is an additional Genshin Impact set from Salty. It’s hard not to respect how openly-passionate you are for this character!

  • Neutral Special is a simple enough buff that bolsters your damage but makes you take DoT. Minor typo where “Using your side special will activate Icefang Rush” mistakenly says the move is a Side Special. I think Wrio should have a way to turn off the buff, as one minute is quite a long time (you’ll suffer 150% in self-damage over that time, assuming you aren’t KO’ed first). That, or you should just shorten the buff’s timer to something like 10 seconds, so Wrio is forced to commit to a certain level of self-damage. Either way, I’m guessing the inability to turn it off is meant to emulate how the effect works in Genshin Impact.
  • Side Special references applying the freeze element referenced in the mechanics. Does this mean it literally freezes opponents it hits? Or does landing a Side Special bolster the power of the next Side Special? The freeze and elemental infusion mechanic states that it multiplies the damage of the move that inflicted it by 1.75x.
  • I could see Grounded Up Special being a good out-of-shield option thanks to its super armour, in spite of its high starting lag.
  • Up Special and Down Special certainly channel Ryu, though I get that the latter is more power-based than a crumpler.

Jab is surprisingly detailed for a non-Special move from you. In fact, it’s a pretty darn cool move! You have the adrenaline rush of punching your opponent so many times, fitting for a boxer, and then finishing with a satisfying animation that deals good damage. While the move says it’s weak against shields, I think the fact that Wrio can punch so many times means that he could, in practice, mix up between punching 1-5 times and drop the attack before the final hit to catch out opponents with another option. His Up Special and Down Specials would certainly benefit from it.

The Jab gets even more unique when you factor in the final hit, which deals diagonal downwards knockback similar to Ryu’s Down Air. I probably wouldn’t give the jump the ability to cancel into aerials though, as I think Wrio should have to commit to the final hit of Jab and eat its potential shield unsafety given how strong it is. The attack’s edgeguarding uses have been mentioned in the set, but I could also see it as a nifty little aerial combo starter if you manage to knock an opponent into ground and bounce them back up, similar to Ryu or Terry’s Down Airs. And while it’s not directly mentioned in the set, Wrio is shown to move forward as performs his punches in the provided GIF - this should be something he can do in the set too, as being able to carry foes across the stage would help bring them closer to the ledge for him to dunk with the Jab’s final hit. Finally, I like Jab’s ability to hold the input for any of its hits to transition into an uppercut, giving Wrio a vertical launcher and a way to be more flexible with how he follows up out of the move.

  • You know, it’s weirdly hard to tell whether “his grace” is something that Wriothesley is called in-universe, likely because he’s respected by people, or whether it’s just something you call him. I assume it’s the former case, in which case it’s a nice source of characterization.
  • Forward Smash does stick out for being a bit same-y as Down Special, which is already a power-based punch. The way it’s described as a fast cross implies that it’s more of a “comes out fast” type of Forward Smash, in which case I imagine it would be riddled with end lag and be unsafe on block. Not really having details or move applications sticks out more after Jab, which supplied them to a satisfying level.
  • Up Smash also seems a bit similar to Jab’s optional launcher, though I could see the former being used as an out-of-shield option. To be fair, it does seem like Wrio is limited for different types of attacks given he’s a boxer-type character.
  • I like how Down Air neatly justifies Wrio having a suicide stall-then-fall from a character-based perspective.
  • I get where you’re coming from with the characterization and mechanical aspect of Forward Throw, but the whole animation of Wrio drinking tea, accidentally dropping his teacup and scaling foes with it feels… off. It just doesn’t seem like something that Wrio would actually do in a situation where he’s apprehending an opponent/criminal, and it feels like a very forced way to apply pyro. I also, not to come across as too harsh, think that the Elemental Infusion mechanic is not as compelling as it could be when combining two elements just gives you a simple damage multiplier on your attacks more often than not. Personally, I’d change the throw to something with a more casual animation, since you’re trying to convey Wrio’s nonchalant demeanor. The tea-sipping animation would not be lost since it’s on his second victory screen - you could even include the teacup-dropping animation in that victory screen, assuming that it’s an in-character thing for Wrio (which would imply that he's clumsy to some extent).

Overall, a simple little Jamcon entry, but one of my personal favourite sets from you. Golden Queen edges out for having a more interesting and arguably well-developed set of moves, but Wrio’s Jab is handily the best move I’ve ever seen from one of your sets. It’s just that the rest of his moveset feels lighter by comparison, but there is certainly room for growth if you wanted to add more to it.
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
129
"The kingdom fell into despair."

"The king and queen had lost two children in one night."

"The humans had once again taken everything from us."

"The king decided it was time to end our suffering."

"Every human who falls down here must die."

"With enough souls, we can shatter the barrier forever."

"It's not long now."

"King ASGORE will let us go."

"King ASGORE will give us hope."

"King ASGORE will save us all."

"You should be smiling, too."

"Aren't you excited?"

"Aren't you happy?"

"You're going to be free."

(Jamcon 2 entry)​
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,257
Location
Australia
  • Very fitting Jamcon choice, and surprisingly refreshing to see this character when the last set he got was a considerably short entry.
  • I’m fond of the homing fireball projectile: it’s a powerful presence that greatly aids Asgore’s neutral, but the fact that you can get rid of it by launching or grabbing Asgore, as well as the fact that it goes on cooldown afterwards, means that it’s easy for foes to deal with. I also like that the way the fireball gets “stronger” the more times Asgore uses the move has nothing to do with its actual damage output, preventing it from snowballing in an obnoxious way. The way Asgore’s fire attacks get a buff the more they’re used is a pretty neat way to implement the “boss gets stronger as the battle goes on” trope.
  • I never thought about it because I forgot about Undertale’s battle mechanics, but the way blue and orange attacks work and their built-on 50/50 is intriguing, and I am very glad to see that being exploited through this set in its Side Special. I could also see the orange attack being usable as a whiff punish, as a good deal of lag experienced in Smash is done from a standstill.
  • I like Down Special and the inwards nature of its knockback. The way multiple traps can be set and how they can be triggered with a Smash input reminds me of Friedrich.
  • Up Smash’s buff is the scariest of Asgore’s fire-based attacks yet, but it is a pretty fair one when he has to use a slow move multiple times, and the buff does nothing to reduce the move’s end lag.
  • F-air is a pretty darn cool move: its light downwards knockback for casually forcing tech situations is good enough, but I’m more sold on the optional hit’s ability to create a descending Game and Watch-like hitbox that can threaten foes swatted down.
  • U-throw might be one of the shortest moves I’ve seen from you. It’s not a complaint so much as refreshing in a way.

While I prefer Driblim and most of your other sets this contest, due to their more intriguing concepts compared to Asgore’s more simplistic gameplan, the Understale boss is still a solid package. It’s just a testament to how great your many sets have been this contest that he is one of your “weaker” entries.
 

BrazilianGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
41
Comments am I right?

Well Dae, congratulations, you made me care about a character I only viewed as an alt color, quite impressive, I love seeing when people take characters with not a bunch and manage to make an entertaining moveset. That's the word I'd use to describe BF, he is hella entertaining, sure he is long but he was fun. I was frankly baffled with all the sorts of bull **** you gave him like the great OOS Up Smash, the shield ignoring F Smash, Down Special and Side Special in general. But despite these and other attacks sounding ridiculous he does end up feeling balanced, not fair, he definitely feels hella strong but only in the hands of a pro. I love the vibe you manage to give him, again you made me care for a character I flat-out didn't know anything about, I enjoy that. The K.Rool philosophy of him having some moves that reference and are better than the Cap's is also amusing. Like "OH Douglas needs a Special to throw out a kick? Pathetic! I can do that with my Tilt!" feels in character. Also love how despite all of his Smashes having big cons, Down Tilt is still his worst Smash Attack. As for how you structure the doc, I liked the use of Description, Stats, Pros Cons and Meta, Meta in particular were my favorites to read, I like seeing what goes behind the mind of someone when they are making a moveset, great stuff. Maybe just dont put them all on the side bar? Thats just a me thing tho. All in all I really enjoyed Blood Falcon, he is long but enjoyable, he gets a Dinosaur Boost/10

I like Mauga, I didn't got to play him during that period when he was incredibly broken so I never had his worst, plus Im just glad we got him after so many years. This moveset is kind of impressive for how fast you managed to do it, like Mauga was just released and you already had the moveset, really cool. But I do think he is a bit undercooked funnily enough. One of the things I liked the most about your Toblegeorge moveset was how you expanded the character, Mauga feels really basic in contrast. Nothing wrong with that obviously, but still. I think Down Special in particular is really lacking, I sadly play Overwatch so I know that there is a cooldown, but you don't really mention it, can he just keep using it? Can the overdrive stack? And in general maybe explore how the life steal and the damage reduction can be useful with examples on a match. The rest of the moves are fine, nothing too groundbreaking, although getting to his Classic Mode and reading that Mauga would love Link the Twink made me laugh out loud. I also always enjoy the extras you put with the Overwatch characters like specific voice lines and the kill feed. But outside of that I think Mauga is just ok, I think Trob was significantly better, a SE'I KOE IKIIKI/10

Starting the Jamcon strong with a kid who's deep into space. I know nothing about Fate but I liked learning Voy's story, his irl inspiration, his Little Prince inspired looks, how he subverts the usual roles in the series, neat stuff! Everything is layed out in a very enjoyable way in the doc, I liked how you start with aerials since they are such an important part of his kit. Also very impressive how you did him so quickly, with Jamcon time to spare and yet gave him 2 sets of Specials and 2 sets of Smash Attacks, thats dedication. He has very fun moves, the highlight of the set for me was the Planet, such a fun and strong tool that fits like a glove in his game plan, allowing him to use his Grounded Specials in new creative ways with good positioning, love how it interacts with the Beam, the Car, and his Dash Attack. He does have a lot of stuff, unique aerial movement, 2 unique mechanics, Smashes in the air, most of his moves also have deeper complexity, again, really impressive for such short time. I just think it could have had extras and a conclusion, like it feels that its gonna end on a Final Smash but there's only a name and a gif, a bit weird. But despite that, Voyager has fun moves and a nice vibe, a Little Prince kid who contols stars, rockets and planets is a hella cool concept. He gets a Starman/10

Also Voyager will stay in the Jamcon box until I cast my vote 👍
Any questions bout the current tiers (they are not ordered) just @ me on the server

Screenshot_20240401-220526-1.jpg
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,257
Location
Australia
Joining the Tunz Overwatch crew is a character who ventures into sensitive territory. It’s pretty impressive that you made a set for this character so ridiculously early into their release in Overwatch.

  • Neutral Special is simple but detailed in its applications as a lingering melee hitbox. If Venture can cancel the move’s end lag into other moves, they should only be able to do so when the move directly connects (not against shields), just so they can’t casually invalidate the move’s end lag.
  • Side Special is interesting in midair as a unique stall-then-fall mix-ups of landing normally vs carrying out the projectile attack, giving Venture good pressure against grounded opponents even while they are airborne. That is surprisingly fitting given they travel underground! That might not have been your intention, but it’s actually a really cool way to implement drilling and “going deep” in Smash without literally going underground or going offstage.
  • Up Special is nice as an out-of-shield option and combo extender at lower percents.
  • Down Special is good, with a tap vs hold mix-up where Venture can choose to use the emerging hitbox as a combo starter or launcher/KO option. I don’t believe the move mentions how long Venture can stay underground, but that would be easy to add in. I’m also unsure whether moving around is optional, or whether Venture can move back and forth or is locked into moving in one direction while they’re burrowing. If they can choose to move or move back and forth, then I think it should take them a good while to turn around, more so if they performed the faster dash, to ensure they cannot easily chase opponents that they overshoot.

  • I wonder if Jab would benefit more as being a simple one-hit drill poke to open up opponents? Would give Venture a less committal melee option compared to Clobber, and a way to segue into their other melee attacks since they’re a combo character.
  • U-air is a nice move for its ability to drag opponents down into grounded combos.
  • D-air being a downwards-aimed Up Special is respectable enough, especially for a Jamcon entry. It might be obsolete when you could just allow Venture to aim their Up Special downwards in the first place. Personally, I could see Venture having a Down Air that works well with the fact that their Side and Down Specials let them dive into the ground quickly - perhaps a smack of diagonal downwards knockback that can set up into both of those hitboxes?
  • It goes without saying that the U-throw and D-throw DI mix-up between launcher vs combo starter is good. Little things like this show that your Smash knowledge is growing.

  • I”m a fan of the detail you’ve gone into with describing Dhelmise’s physique and how it works in Smash, as it has a rather unique body type.
  • Steelworker is a very unique mechanic that takes good advantage of Dhelmise’s unique body shape. I don’t think we’ve ever seen knockback delay as a (negative) mechanic, especially as a means to make a character easier to combo and KO.
  • I can safely say that Anchor Shot’s pros offset the drawbacks that come with having your anchor extended, but even then you can choose to grab a struck foe and reel in your anchor in the place of dealing them chunky knockback. We don’t get many Specials that transition into your regular grab, especially with damage added on, but unlike some of those old MYM attacks this one doesn’t feel like a cop-out whatsoever.
  • Whirlpool is neat as a little ranged positioning tool for Anchor Shot. It’s also pretty in-character for Dhelmise to want to pull targets in, or drag them to the depths. Likewise, Phantom Force gives you a way to reconnect with your anchor while threatening opponents close to it, and Poltergeist compliments the move very well with the ability to temporarily shift your hurtbox to your anchor, even during Phantom Force.

  • F-Smash is certainly a meaty blow, and I’m glad to see that the laws of physics can be exploited at the ledge to smack opponents hanging below the ledge. U-Smash is also satisfying as a potentially big vertical hitbox that can knock em’ up and yank em’ back down for a deadly offstage spike or follow-up. Both of these moves are technically simple, but they are elevated by Dhelmise’s intriguing Steelworker mechanic. I get how you might see D-Smash as one of the less creative moves, but it still has its place in the set.
  • I definitely appreciate Dhelmise having a few melee attacks that don’t utilize its anchor.
  • D-tilt’s two hitboxes are fun, with a semi-spiking anchor and the chain that can pop foes up and has great reach when the anchor is extended far. This is also a move that has some neat non-anchor neutral appeal, thanks to its shield pressure and ability to set up into Anchor Shot or F-Smash.
  • While it’s not the centrepiece of F-air, the idea of a part of your hurtbox triggering landing lag while you’re still airborne is really interesting.
  • D-air is a neat edgeguarding tool that makes great use of Dhelmise’s floatier aerial stats while the anchor is out.
  • B-throw is very cool with how it interacts with Anchor Shot and Phantom Force, and how it’s potentially possible for the move to loop into itself if you repeatedly catch an opponent.
  • D-throw being weight-dependent like how Grass Knot is in-game is a tad situational and overly match-up dependent for my tastes, but it’s nice that Anchor Shot adjusts which version is used.
  • U-throw is simple enough, but the brine jump boost is welcome, and especially another option to help Dhelmise do grab loops.

With a moveset that’s pretty consistently fun, Dhelmise actually edges out as my favourite set of yours this contest, as it appealed to me notably more than Nomad two contests ago. The Pokemon was a more wild pick that had less constraints than a Smash rep pick, not dissimilar to Tulin.
 
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Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
129
WRIOTHESLEY (Salty)

Wriothesley is a fairly basic brawler set, but he’s still got some interesting stuff to him. His NSpec grants him a buff to his knockback at the expense of passive self-damage, which appeals to my liking of self-damage as a concept, though there isn’t any mention of how it affects his combos (and on a similar note, the exact strength of the knockback of Up and Down Throw aren’t specified). Jab and Side Tilt are also notable, the former for being notably detailed for a Jab with interesting applications and the latter for applying a status effect that can give Wrio more damage by freezing the foe in place, though I should note that the doc explaining this mechanic doesn’t state a time limit for this effect except “until they’re hit again”. USpec is also a pretty unconventional defensive option that makes up for its poor startlag with superarmor, and FAir having superarmor is something that would be fairly interesting from an approaching standpoint. Overall, while definitely held back by the lack of detail behind the more mechanically interesting parts of his kit, Wrio still has enough meat to him that I still approve of this set for him.

Link to full comment repository here!
 

FrozenRoy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,261
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Switch FC
SW-1325-2408-7513

Dodongo dislikes smoke!

An enemy, and at times boss, from the Legend of Zelda series, Dodongo is depicted as either a dinosaur or reptilian style enemy, with the more saurian designs being four legged and the reptilian types being more like a two legged gecko. This moveset will be using the orange, classic dinosaur design for the Dodongo, but an alternate version with retextured skin (but not model) of the gecko green coloration is available as well. Dodongos are most well known for their super tough hides, rendering them impervious to traditional damage, but they bite things indiscriminately and are weak to eating bombs. This thus leads to the famous advice of "Dodongo dislikes smoke", which has a second meaning: A Dodongo hit by the explosion but not eating the bomb becomes stunned and can be killed with Link's sword, dropping bombs to kill Dodongos! This is harder, but more rewarding. These boss Dodongos are usually found deep inside of a dungeon.

As you can see, Dodongos are NOT a deep character, and in fact if you look into Make Your Move's deep lore they are known for being mechanically shallow: The opposite of deep. Are those reasons deep enough for him to qualify?


Dodongo Dislikes Stats

Dodongo is a heavyweight, and unsurprisingly is slow. Dodongo is a large bodied character with a more horizontal than vertical orientation due to having same number of legs as horse, in the vein of Ivysaur or dashing Brawl Bowser. His jumps are poor and he falls quickly, Dodongo bad against combos. Dodongo crawl but no wall jump or cling. Dodongo slow in the air like he is on ground. Dodongo good traction.

Dodongo Dislikes Specials

Neutral Special: Bite

Dodongo lean forward to bite opponent, chew on them like Wario if hitting the foe. Deals multiple hits of small damage, heals Dodongo very small amounts of damage. Command grab, good against defense: Hold down to suck in opponents from Battlefield Platform of distance like pink puff ball, leads into chew. Good against rolls, stop shield. Dodongo DISLIKES defense, what you expect? If swallow explosive, larger self damage and stun than other suction moves. Make funny face like game when happen. Faster than Dodongo opponent expect.

Side Special: Headbutt

Dodongo charge forward with horn ready to strike. When close to opponent, thrusts upwards for good damage, kill at modest percentages. Does particularly large damage to shield thanks to piercing horn. Dodongo body heavily armored while charging, but not from front: Dodongo leave mouth open and exposed like idiot. Dodongo can change direction during startup: Start move up to armor through attack, then turn around to hit opponent after armor through. Dodongo clever. Also good at catching roll. Dodongo also slow, though armor fast. Dodongo unable to armor grab. How foe wrestle Dodongo? Deep question for ages. Dodongo eat grass and contemplate.

Down Special: Fire

Dodongo open mouth and suck in air, drawing in opponent with windbox. If opponent touches Dodongo mouth, get sucked into Dodongo mouth with very very small damage and stuck until attack come out or someone hit. After long time, Dodongo breathe out fire with strong range. Multihit that explodes into bigger fiery inferno at end of move. Unlike mean Koopa reptile, cannot be held: More normal multihit. Attack have modest damage and knockback normally, but buffed to be strong if foe, projectile or item eaten by a move recently. Good kill move if so. Startup count! Good at ledge due to long hitbox, good range, mix up with aerials. Long duration in air scary: Easy to die. Maybe Dodongocide? Not likely.

Up Special: Leap

Dodongo roll into ball and leap into air, go high like King of Penguins. Slightly less vertical range, slightly more horizontal range. Armored after startup while leaping, but vulnerable during long startup. Light damage and push opponents away when up, big spike on the way down which make opponents scare. Pitfall grounded opponents, earthshake very briefly when landing. Bad lag when landing on ground, Dodongo uncurl in awkward manner and dazed. Dodongo ouchies. Cannot grab ledge on way down, what you expect when a ball? Cancel like Dedede if need be.

Dodongo Dislikes Standards

Jab: Claw

Dodongo perform quick swipe with front claw. One hit jab with modest speed: Little end lag, good shield push. Dodongo happy to be safe against shield. Damage okay, knockback late kill option, lead to very little early. Decent to poke scary foe, good to defend Dodongo from squishy front. Dodongo like safety.

Forward Tilt: Horn

Dodongo lean head down and then thrust head upwards, striking opponent with scary horn. Laggy like Ike Forward Tilt at start, do stronger damage and knockback but not as good range. Do good shield damage like Side Special, push foe back into safe range. Dodongo faster than Ike to move again, Dodongo also take bonus damage if hit from front during move or startup. Dodongo make funny face when hit like this. Dodongo only here for amusement? :< Dodongo not only hear for amusement: Attack Good for finishing off foe. Sometimes combo finisher! Very slight anti-air potential.

Down Tilt: Tail

Dodongo perform quick tail swipe in front of Dodongo. Dodongo action fast, thick tail good range at base but become thinner near end. Pop opponent up with small damage, allow Dodongo chance to go into Jab, Up Tilt or Aerial. Tip of tail trip opponents at high rate, chance to frighten opponent with Specials. Dodongo fast out of move, give Dodongo more safety. Not safe against jump-in: Opponent easily jump over tail and make Dodongo sad. Why life not leave Dodongo alone? Maybe because Dodongo not leave life alone. Dodongo contemplate.

Up Tilt: Swipe

Dodongo swipe upwards with claw, surprisingly like human uppercut but very Dinosaur. Come out fast, but Dodongo slow to move again afterwards: Dodongo simply not built for human-esque movement. Solid damage and knockback, serve as weaker but more reliable option to kill Dodongo opponent. Dodongo able to kill confirm opponent with tail late. Swipe go decently high but in front of Dodongo: Anti-air good against jump-ins, bad against high foe. Not safe against opponent shield.

Dash Attack: Strike

Dodongo jump forward while swiping with front foot, give good horizontal burst while striking at opponent. Attack more setup style move: Starting lag longer, ending lag short in surprise to Dodongo, send opponent at angle where they try tech for long time or be punished. Dodongo have many good options to chase down opponent, wary of bomb if opponent puts it down first. Damage surprisingly low. Very bad against shield. Tech chase foe with another Dash Attack for funny plays. Leap maybe catch opponent who jump late?

Dodongo Dislikes Aerials

Neutral Aerial: Spin

Dodongo tuck in legs and tail, use technique of most ancient ancestors and spin. Venerated technique. Multiple hits of small damage, but Dodongo get very free combo if he land with good timing. Potentially Forward Tilt opponent for very silly early kill! Range very small for this type of move: Easy to miss opponent and spin self silly instead. Also take kinda longer than average, although ending lag good. Primarily combo tool or just to spin opponent off Dodongo: Drag down offstage very scare for fast falling Dodongo, awkward from below with platform, no kill potential. Cross-up opponent for safety.

Forward Aerial: Punch

Dodongo rear back one of front legs, then smash it forward like dinosaur punch. Extend arm as far as can be for great range, but it make attack slow. Difficult to use in neutral, but not possible! Dodongo use attack immediately or attack not come out fast enough. Attack safe on shield if properly spaced. Strong in advantage due to punch dealing big damage and knockback for kill. Mix up with Up Aerial at high percent from Down Tilt? As Dodongo expect. Dodongo potentially use it as powerful anti-air if predict well.

Back Aerial: Slap

Dodongo lift up tail, then Dodongo smack opponent with tail and a strong motion! Tail lift exaggerated, very laggy, but attack rare back aerial spike. Spike very strong for most of tail, but tip more modest spike to account for strong range. If opponent recover high to avoid Special, Dodongo slap them to bottom blast zone with this! Dodongo too slow for reliable spike combos. Dodongo back aerial have specific use, but specific use strong.

Up Aerial: Chomp

Dodongo look upwards and Dodongo bite, Dodongo attack only slightly laggier than average and ending lag good. Attack deal high damage and knockback on at very start of bite, deal low damage and knockback otherwise. Sweetspot strong for kill, sourspot often unsafe early on: Take care when using then. Dodongo potentially shark platforms like true shark, despite being dinosaur. Hitbox directly above Dodongo good for anti-air Up Tilt cannot.

Down Aerial: Panic

Dodongo not comfortable in air! Dodongo panic, Dodongo flail all four legs in rapid method that reminds opponent of two legged dinosaur who makes eggs. Dodongo deal high damage quickly over multiple hits, but foe potentially escape hit with good directional influence faster. Damage output also note as good as two legged dinosaur. Many hits make good for hitting shields, cover ledge options long time. High damage combo option with good speed. If Dodongo use with upward momentum like after jump, Dodongo stall very briefly. Dodongo dislike this, Dodongo prefer the ground!

Dodongo Dislikes Smashes

Forward Smash: Fireball

Suction from Dodongo mouth as it open, before Dodongo shoot out fireball that travel modest distance. Attack have similar windbox to Down Special that perhaps trick opponent like clever Dodongo planned. Fireball explode when hit opponent or max distance, deal damage and knockback that make opponent think of Mega Man Forward Smash but stronger. Attack slow on both end: Dodongo not particularly able to counter annoying projectile character with this reliable. If Dodongo eat projectile or item from suction (including earlier moves) within long time, Dodongo have optional second hit to shoot out item or projectile. Projectile have same speed it had before, item be launched like smash thrown. Frightening option if opponent in prone or missed tech. Safe option against ledge. Generally not the best when used close range.

Up Smash: Fliptail

Dodongo bring innovative new technique to flipkick! Dodongo jump into air and frontflip, attack opponent with tail instead of foot. Dodongo know you amazed, no need to praise. Dodongo tail strong range and attack very good anti-air, surprisingly short starting lag. Range compare to Ridley Up Smash! It also solid kill move, stronger if hit opponent with base of tail at closer range. Tail slap in front of Dodongo at end of move, giving Dodongo surprisingly good front coverage. Ending lag very bad because Dodongo not used to such acrobatic feats. Dodongo combo this out of Down Tilt until middle percents, but Dodongo no get kill confirm: Opponent launch out of range before then. Dodongo get read on air dodge? If Dodongo clever.

Down Smash: Stomp

Dodongo jump into air on fall fours, then Dodongo stomp on opponent with ruthless intent. Strongest Dodongo kill move in normal set! Move deal high damage as well, but move overall only strong directly under Dodongo body. Outside of that, attack deal low damage and knockback for a Smash Attack. Ground quake around Dodongo for the added range, and last a bit longer than rest of attack. Dodongo dodge low hitting attack with jump, punish many getup and ledge attacks. Move very laggy: Dodongo not safe when attack whiff or hit the sourspot at low foe percents. Move have little use outside of killing. What you expect

Dodongo Dislikes Throws

Grab: Grab

Dodongo reach forward with arm, grab opponent with foot grip. Dodongo have defined toes in some game, Dodongo very able to grab! Dodongo grab slow, Dodongo grab range modest.

Pummel: Pummel

Dodongo headbutt foe. What you expect?

Down Throw: Pound

Dodongo lift opponent into air with two feet, then Dodongo slam opponent into ground and bounce them off floor. Dodongo combo throw on full display, Dodongo combo into many move from attack! Dodongo even combo Up Smash at low percent. Dodongo not have kill confirm out of Down Throw at most percents, but Dodongo able to get read based kill. Forward Aerial usually best combo option past early percent. Actual Dodongo throw deal modest damage, slightly higher than expect for combo throw.

Forward Throw: Toss

Dodongo take opponent and Dodongo toss them away like trash. Prehistoric trash. Dodongo toss very fast and have almost no ending lag: Unlikely opponent will DI correctly, Dodongo get to be aggressive quickly. Dodongo throw deal only okay damage and not actually combo, though. If Dodongo want reset to neutral, this is throw Dodongo want to use. Dodongo also fine it good all purpose throw. Dodongo force tech situations at early percent, but why Dodongo not Down Throw? Dodongo perhaps get higher reward.

Back Throw: Grindset

Dodongo grind opponent against ground while turning around, toss foe behind him far distance. Dodongo not trying to be mean, Dodongo simply find it very hard to turn around without all legs! Dodongo deal lots of damage and pretty good kill throw, but Dodongo throw have no utility. Use throw, kill foe. Kill foe, be happy. What you expect?

Up Throw: Skewer

Dodongo toss opponent into air, then Dodongo smack opponent further into air with tail. Dodongo throw do damage like Back Throw, but set opponent high in air: Dodongo chase landing like prehistoric puppy? Do much more damage than Down Throw or Forward Throw, if Dodongo want damage after Down Throw no longer combo then this Dodongo's best option. Dodongo make good use of Up Aerial here, Dodongo Up Smash if foe start air dodging on reaction to being thrown. Dodongo attack very straightforward. Dodongo happy to return to sleep. Dodongo return to happy life.

Final Smash: Dodongo LIKES Smoke?! Dodongo Dislikes YOU!

Dodongo have power of Smash Ball! Dodongo show opponent what it like to be Dodongo against man with bomb.
 
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n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,530
... and that's a wrap on submissions for Jamcon 27-2: Deep! Big thanks to all entrants for giving us such a strong turnout! Our entrants this time around are:
  1. High-speed young deep space explorer, Voyager!
  2. Ruler of an underground kingdom, Asgore Dreemurr!
  3. Archaeologist and tunneler extraordinaire, Venture!
  4. The Pokemon that lurks on the sea floor, Dhelmise!
  5. Underworld ruler and oil-driller, Hades!
  6. Vampire-slaying legend of surprising depth, Antonio Belpaese!
  7. Deep cut, deep sea, bone-breaking boss Murasa.EXE!
  8. ⠞⠓⠑⠲⠲⠲⠀⠕⠞⠓⠑⠗⠀⠙⠑⠑⠏⠀⠎⠑⠁⠀⠏⠕⠅⠑⠍⠕⠝⠂⠀⠗⠑⠇⠊⠉⠁⠝⠞⠓
  9. Master of advice every bit as deep as it is spiritual, Xavier!
  10. Dodongo (finish this later?)

Big crop of sets, but y'all were well-behaved and we don't have a bunch of big boy movesets, so let's shoot for... just over two weeks for reading/voting, and call it on 4/20.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,257
Location
Australia
Hype character choice! We had an old Spadefox Kefka set back in MYM4, but I always thought it was too low-key with his powerset and was probably meant to represent pre-god Kefka. lIt’s high-time we got a legitimately long and ambitious moveset for a Final Fantasy villain, and this one does not disappoint. Neutral Special is a strong set and a move that’s appealing for numerous reasons: it gradually grows in power and has the potential to turn into a god-like attack if left for long enough, very fitting for a final boss. The attack has various uses between different phases, and it’s even useful when you have no orbs! I also have to give props behind the characterization of this move: the orb versions display Kefka’s power, while the no-orb version encapsulates his twisted comedic nature as a funny hitbox that’s more threatening that it looks and -sounds-, just like Kefka himself. Only losing one orb per stock makes the higher variants more feasible to land too.

Trine is more of a simple stage control tool that forces periods of movement from opponents to get around its grab. I also remember this attack way back when my brother had Dissidia 15 or so years ago. It’s a fine move, but I think the triangle should take a page from your recent Asgore set and disappear if Kefka is hit - it doesn’t seem particularly difficult to set up, and I think it could lead to some annoying camping on platforms where Kefka sits on the platform the triangle was made as it passes and covers him frequently. It would be conducive with how foes are pressured to go after Kefka given his Neutral Special charge.

Down Special is a little treat for FF fans, as Heartless Angel was not included in Sephiroth’s Ultimate moveset despite being one of his most iconic attacks. As someone who doesn’t have encyclopedic knowledge of the FF series, I was genuinely surprised to hear that Heartless Angel originated in FF6 with Kefka and superbosses rather than Sephiroth, so its inclusion here is more than justified. In any case, the move’s “reduce the foe’s HP to 1” effect is understandably incorporated in the same way as Shadow Naoto’s debuffs. That’s cool, as identical concepts can be executed in very different ways between sets. In Kefka’s case, it basically gives him a “super tech chase” since the command grab leaves grounded opponents prone!

  • F-Smash is another move that combines comedy and deceptive power in one package. In fact, U-Smash does this too, using the classic anime washbin trope. It feels like these animations were invented for Smash as they weren’t in Dissidia, in which case I’m impressed. In any case, U-Smash is a big move that offers the option of attacking from your previous location on use, with 3 stages to the attack that get progressively stronger. I like the way the progression works where the next attack is stronger but slower than the last one, as it prevents the meteor from easily comboing out of the burying statue that comes before it.
  • “That’ll teach that Sephiroth fellow what a real meteor is!” I love this line.
  • D-Smash is a neat move, thanks to its potential ground-chasing properties and versatile nature depending on how long it’s charged.
  • I like unique Jabs, and this one has built-in applications as either a safe or semi-risky pseudo-counter if Jab 2 is inputted.
  • Dash Attack is another fun move that looks bad until you realize you can jump and turn it into a versatile combo starter or brief pseudo-projectile as you approach from the air. This move has a train of fun individual moves that I like to see in movesets.
  • Having tap/held versions of Tilts and Directional Aerials reminds me a lot of Primordial Darkness, and explains a lot of this set’s length. Also, I love the attack names of Kefka’s B-air, U-air and D-air.
  • Tapped B-air alone is a neat melee tool for how it works with Kefka’s kit: a semi-spike to tech chase into his stronger moves, or landing against shields for quick pressure to go into Heartless Angel (but can be hard to achieve due to Kefka’s low fall speed). The held version’s ability to be charged to make it stronger actually reminds me a lot of a Kupa Aerial, specifically Hades’s N-air. It’s a very big and satisfying move, nonetheless, especially with the RAR shield mix-up between the tap and held versions.
  • D-throw is a fun little “tech chase” move. It does make sense to not be an orthodox tech chase when Down Special already does that. Part of me wishes that the move did benefit from Heartless Angel’s knockback boost, as I think Kefka would earn the knockback boost if he manages to land his Down Special and correctly guess the foe’s get-up with his D-throw.

I do have a few points I’m iffy on. Kefka has a lot of ranged options and attacks in general thanks to having two moves in one with his Tilts and Aerials. This is fine, but I did wonder whether his U-air and D-air went a little overboard with this, more so the latter. One is a vertical Din’s Fire, while tapped D-air drops icicles that stay out for 10 seconds as traps or until they are triggered, and Kefka can have up to 2 of them out and use them for stage control in addition to stuff like his U-Smash and Trine. I also think F-throw’s delayed hits are pretty darn overpowered: grounded foes are crumpled while aerial ones are straight-up spiked, and it doesn’t seem too hard for Kefka to get them off when he has projectiles and his F-throw even has the potential to get tech chases in.

All and all, Kelfa was a great set and one of your best this contest. He is a unique case where he lacked Specials or central mechanics that were particularly innovative or mind-blowing compared to some sets of his length, but many of his individual inputs were all so fun and interesting that they carried the set, improving my opinion of it as I read. The set’s length, gameplay and characterization absolutely did Kefka justice!

I also have to give this set props for its boss mode - I was jokingly thinking that Kefka could have a boss mode but doesn’t need one because his set is boss-like, only to be surprised to see one actually be implemented at the bottom of the set. Thanks to crediting my Maple set in this! I’m very glad to see that was an influence, and that you took the Squad Strike route instead of the old “you fight 3 characters at the same time” gimmick old MYM did. It’s also cool to see you expand upon the idea with Kefka, and reference Unlimited characters in Blazblue (we really do need a Blazblue moveset from you).

You’ve been killing it with your recent character choices. Never heard of this character or the play he comes from, but making a set for a different incarnation of Hades naturally has MYM appeal given we got a 3rd Disney Hades just last contest. This has the hallmarks of a typical WCF set, juggling multiple fighters and mechanics in an elaborate tag-team/Hugo-style set with various resources to keep an eye on, but with the twist of Hades and Persephone parting with each other every 20 seconds for 20 seconds, similar to the legends. Oh, and you can call in Persephone early if you want her blindspot coverage, but if she lands 3 hits from this she’ll be replaced with the Fates for the rest of the stock. The idea of replacing an extra character that covers the blindspots of your attacks with a different character that doubles down on your narrow-covering attacks is actually quite cool! Oh, and I guess Hades is now a part of the MYMethverse along with Walter, Saul and Regina George (Irene Landry is not, because she doesn’t drive a car for her Side Special).

  • “Hades (and Persephone, or The Fates for a funny visual where all three Fates are riding in the back seat, pestering Hades to give into his darkest desire and order dinner at McDonald’s)” This is funny. Is it also weird that the wording “Koopa Kids” used a moment later makes me think of McDonalds mascots rather than the actual Koopalings?
  • Fuel serves as a secondary resource that Hades needs to juggle for his Neutral Special, as well as be wary of how much he uses if he wants to keep Persephone out. I did not expect Hades to have an actual mechanic similar to Kupa Hades’s soul separation, but here he can just attack an enemy’s shadow while they’re in his spotlights to deal them extra damage and weirdly steal fuel from them, as a way to get around incurring the Fates for extracting fuel from the ground. Which is funny when he needs to spend fuel to keep the spotlights up. It’s also pretty darn unique that Hades can “soul steal” from opponents who turn around while they’re spotlighted, or at least use their soul to extract fuel.
  • (It is technically possible for fighters to turn around in midair by B-reversing their Neutral Special or inputting Side Special the other way, and some fighters have auto-turning Back Airs or multiple midair jumps, but your point still stands about it being hard to turn around in midair)

The ground moves are generally pretty simple and have a lot of Kazuya inspiration. Dash Attack is oddly appealing as a straightforward power move, and F-tilt is a surprisingly neat move: the fist is a powerful hitbox that can lead to tech chases, while the arm can groundbounce opponents and go into aerial follow-ups. It comes out pretty early, but I’d say it’s fair because the move has pretty limited reach and coverage.

Persephone’s hitboxes on the grounded moves are largely there for the sake of it, but I’m glad to see that this was intentional and is mentioned as much in the aerials. I like the way the set is presented - making Persephone not seem like that big of a deal at first, but then come the aerial moves and it turns out that keeping her around gives Hades some really good Aerials that he can combine with his Up Special. In fact, losing Persephone puts Hades at a horrible disadvantage in the air when he gets Mac-like air moves, especially when his recovery becomes fuel-reliant. The Aerials do lose steam quickly come the F-air when they get shorter, but that’s only fair given the Jamcon constraints and the ambitious ideas on display here, which could do with some extra cooking. It feels like there could be a lot more to the Aerials in the melee department, especially with Up Special, rather than their boon largely being “this Aerial has a lot of disjoint”. Stuff like shield safety and being really good at comboing. On a different note, I think the set’s walls are a little underutilized, but again, time constraints.

It’s a little hard to tell how feasible Hades would be in a match compared to a lot of other sets, as he has to juggle Persephone + his fuel and is highly-vulnerable to being cheesed when Persephone isn’t around. While there’s room for development, I think Hades ultimately proved to be more interesting and less messy than your previous Jamcon entries like Elimine and Irene, so I’d say it was a decently successful set for the conditions it was made in.

As someone who grew up with Pokemon Sapphire, the braille on the fake doc that leads to the real set was a treat to see. I legitimately thought the Relicanth set was fake and that it was going to be a set for one of the Regis, due to the whole “Relicanth first, Wailord last,” thing with the doc and that being the puzzle required to catch the Regis in Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald. It’s also nice to actually see a moveset for a fish-like Water-type Pokemon, as they have been surprisingly (or unsurprisingly) uncommon throughout MYM’s history.

  • I love how short the Sturdy mechanic is while also being surprisingly unique, even if it is a bit niche.
  • I’m surprised to see the Active | FAF frame data presentation I adopted for my more recent sets here.
  • Would Ancient Power’s specific stat boosts be edited in post-Jamcon?
  • Was humorously expecting Head Smash to deal self-damage since Ancient Power was true to its in-game effect, even if does make sense for Relicanth to not take damage because of Rock Head. HS’s reach isn’t mentioned, but being so short on detail gives the set an old MYM charm to it. It feels a bit like reading one of n88’s shorter sets and kind of makes me want to make one.
  • Dive being the last Special and serving as a stance for your other Specials gives this set something neat to go off of.
  • “I stopped here because Gen 8’s fossils confuse me.” That makes sense. I haven’t played Sword and Shield myself.

F-Smash is quite a chunky move, thanks to all those little item effects. The idea of getting a little buff from holding a throwing item is neat - I’d love to see this kind of thing fully-realized in a moveset. Claw Fossil says it gives you 1.5x grab strength, but I assume you’d have to throw away the fossil first since you can’t grab while holding items (unless you have a command grab). Reminds me of MYM12 Von Karma’s grab where he could trade items with his opponent, despite the fact that he wouldn’t actually be able to give his opponent his held item. Being able to summon a memory of your held fossil to perform a unique attack is also unique, though I admittedly skimmed these attacks as I don’t think the set would go into detail on their applications due to time constraints and the general randomness of producing a fossil with F-Smash (or getting Ancient Power’s buff).

  • Dash Attack is naturally an interesting move that sticks out for how much longer it is by comparison. D-tilt is also a very gimmicky unorthodox “attack” with old MYM vibes.
  • I kind of like U-throw putting you into dive if you hold the input. Yawn is also a fun idea, specifically how it puts both fighters to sleep rather than just being a typical delayed hitbox deal. Also has the funny potential to drown your opponent if they’re underwater with you, though that is a very niche set-up with U-throw.

All and all, Relicanth is a very short set that is held back a lot by under-detail, but some fun ideas with its writing and presentation made it a surprisingly enjoyable and vibrant read.

This set’s character design and their attack names give me serious deja vu vibes with Dhelmise - you’ll understand if you do Jamcon reading and read that set. Anyway, this character has vibes not unlike HockeyMan or Bunny, but she’s more of a petty villain of the sorts that I like. Here she has a more simple gameplan: involving a slow multi-hitting projectile that can be redirected once, and a boomerang anchor that can be used to cancel your lag on return, not dissimilar to Quilby from MYM22. Add on a falling anchor with Down Special, and you have a trio of projectiles that can potentially work together in little satisfying ways. I also appreciate Up Special’s nod to Side Special’s lag-cancel in how Murasa can potentially cheat and recover multiple times, but it’s time-consuming and can only work so much given her high fall speed.

It can all be capped off with the classic US “slow-but-strong” projectile Forward Smash. I like D-Smash’s ability to mix up which direction you launch your opponent for DI mix-ups, and it makes sense given the move’s whirlpool animation. Also have to give props to the U-Smash’s surprisingly cool and vivid animation: will have to keep it in mind when writing any big exaggerated overhead swing moves in the future. Reminds me of the praise Froy had for Marin 0.1’s animations back in MYM14. The move’s damaging properties are equally as detailed, too - it’s fun just for having a pre-charge hitbox that can potentially link into the big main attack if you can catch out opponents. The rest of the moveset does its part, with some fun like B-air/U-Smash mix-ups and F-air having its lag canceled by Side Special, as well as U-air being a two-part move with the option to fire off a tall-but-risky vertical hitbox. Lastly, I enjoyed B-throw as being a potential aerial bury that ticks down faster if opponents are airborne - meaning you have to leave them on the ground to fully exploit its follow-up potential, but it can set up for an edgeguard if you send them offstage. My favourite move in the set.

While Murasa might not have the strongest concepts of your Jamcon sets, her attacks still come together to form a legitimately solid set like most of your entries, one that I found more compelling than SnakeMan.EXE for comparison.

This might be the most unhinged character choice we’ve gotten this contest. The character reminds me a lot of Rin from last contest, in that they come from what appear to be obscure and abstract 3D media. I was actually looking forward to this set after you asked around for wild/silly in-game effects, and because I have enjoyed all of your Jamcon character choices so far. Neutral Special is the highlight here, which warps the very fabric of Smash with silly effects while still tame since the effects cannot stack… unless there are multiple Xaviers in a match. Neutral Special is definitely a move you’d use just for fun or to troll your opponents - I could see the randomness effect making it a fun move in practice, not dissimilar to rolling for a Pokeball Pokemon or an Assist Trophy. I’ll go over each of these effects:

  • 1.5x is a reasonable damage multiplier, very powerful (stronger than the one on the Super Mushroom) and worth NSpec’s drawbacks without being obnoxiously overtuned. If anything, I think the effect should last for longer than 4 seconds! I’d say 10-12 seconds, just so all the fighters get a good chunk of time to play around with it around the level of Victini or Xerneas’s Pokeball effects. Could also lead to some fun scenarios where one fighter uses the effect to get an early kill, then the fighter who died uses the effect to try and get a revenge kill on the fighter who KO’ed them.
  • Stage-splitting is a veeeery old MYM effect. Now, this kind of effect would realistically be difficult to program in Smash, but who cares? I don’t personally have anything against stage-splitting, especially when Xaviver doesn’t have any control over where the stage splits or whether the effect even happens. The space between the split stage is small enough that most fighters should be able to cross it, and it’s fun to see the applications of stage-splitting like using the split-stage’s makeshift walls for comboing or bringing the stage closer to the blast zone for earlier kills. Also, a way to make the move more unhinged: make it so fighters who are between the stage’s gaps when it reforms are crushed and die instantly, just like in the Midgar stage. Or they simply suffer a lot of damage and get buried for a good while.
  • Effect 3’s hurtbox-shifting feels less satisfying than the others from a gameplay perspective, as it’s only visual-based.
  • Effect 4 is the most random of the lot, as there are many Assist Trophies in the game. It reminds me of Junahu’s Fiend extras, and the idea of summoning an entity that attacks everyone is fun nonetheless.

Moving onto the next move, Xavier just might have the most trippy method of recovering of any moveset ever made. The clone effect is fun, as is its application to match whichever RNG results Xaviver got from his attacks - another fun idea to think about for Hakos Baelz. Part of me wishes the clone could use Neutral Special as well, but it’s fair if it can’t. You can also hit the clone to knock it around and apply effects, which become relevant with Side Special - dangerous if you make it giant, but the note and status effect applied mean that this is far from guaranteed. Also thankful that the control-reversing effect doesn’t last for long, as they tend to be a bit unfun in gameplay. Lastly, Down Special applies a bit of a voodoo effect on opponents, and the crumple effect is surprisingly not obnoxious when foes are unlikely to be punished after launching Xavier far - unless there was a clone around to punish them. But what happens if this occurs against an airborne opponent? The input and its effects probably don’t synergize with Xavier’s other Specials as much, but I can’t complain when their effects are unique.

  • F-Smash gets weird points for producing what might be MYM’s first explosion hitbox with actual HP. In fact, all of Xavier’s Smashes have really weird animations.
  • “This puffing portion of the attack is a rapid jab that deals 1.5% fire damage per hit, presumably because Xavier’s impressive philosophical knowledge is burning the foe’s worldview before their eyes. ” This makes sense. Also, the quotes and GIFs scattered throughout this set make it considerably more enjoyable to go through.
  • I didn’t realize Xaviver had a snake for his left arm until I read his D-tilt (and looked back at Jab’s GIF to confirm such).
  • I could see N-air as being a way to drag opponents between the gaps of a split stage and bounce them off their sides for a combo.
  • F-air’s attack name is very apt.
  • Grab game has Hades grab vibes, but comparing it to Snake’s Side Special makes it very easy to understand. I have to give this move props for how concisely it is written.
  • F-throw has some sweet appeal and is a kind of throw I like: plays off of established mechanics in the set to some potentially big pay-off. Part of me thinks “Xavier should have more status effects in his set”, but then I remembered his Side Special can inflict 5 of them on its own. I think that Xavier should get a bigger frame advantage from his knockdown the more damage it deals: very hard to follow up with no status effects, but when maxed out he can confirm into his strongest attacks like Down Smash, which would be well-deserved given he has to land status effects within a set amount of time and then grab.

While the set has a lot of randomness and unrealized potential, Xavier was nonetheless an enjoyable and memorable Jamcon set. I also enjoyed the set’s extras, as I like dialogue and they all show off Xavier’s uncanny character. His win poses are especially trippy, as they have the freedom to display the more abstract nature of his series (particularly win 2, but they are all insane).

I was given a little preview of this set when its Specials, Jab, Dash Attack and Back Throw were complete. The bat symbol next to your Username made me think you were making a set for Camazotz from F/GO LB7, but I highly doubted that was the case.

Antonio is a simple upgrade-based set where you can level up attacks for every 30% you deal, which boosts the last attack you used to level up and gives you access to one of many items that you can have up to 3 of. These are more quality-of-life upgrades rather than major stuff, but specific items can evolve specific inputs, and Held Down Special can be used to access a powerful attack that’s put on significant cooldown after use. I have to give this set props for talking about all the items where relevant, rather than just being a set-and-forget deal given this is a Jamcon set.

Some notes:

  • Side Special stuck out as being the coolest Special, thanks to its rare screen-bouncing effect.
  • I imagine that Peachone’s projectiles wouldn’t be effective for locking foes for an aerial, but they would be good for denying airspace so you can hit opponents if they try to approach you from a different angle.
  • Dash Attack feels like it could benefit from having its range (and lag to a degree) described. Also, the fact that its Evolved form needs an item that gives you an extra midair jump could be something worth mentioning in the Dash Attack’s application.
  • D-Smash’s Evolution is an interesting little move that can be looped multiple times, allowing you to artificially extend its hitbox duration.
  • It’s good that the potency of Skull-O’-Maniac’s knockback reduction is noted in B-throw.
  • I like that B-air’s boomerang properties, hinted at by being comparable to Simon’s Side Special, are locked behind its evolved counterpart.

My main criticism for this set isn’t necessarily to do with its concepts or execution, but rather how it’s presented. The set might be short, but it could be surprisingly hard to follow: you have leveling up, move levels and have to remember which Down Special items upgrade what moves, as well as what combination of items can do what for Antonio. More than that, I think the set leans too hard into talking about moves that haven’t been brought up yet. That’s fine to do in sets, and I get you want to place an emphasis on convincing readers that the moves work together, but doing it too much did leave me feeling alienated at times. For instance, Side Special brought up U-Smash and Lightning Ring (which I scrolled down and it’s the D-air), and U-tilt confirming into grab. And while I did say I liked the set’s approach to not displaying lag in the full-detail Smash Wiki style when I was previewing it, there were a few times when lag doesn’t seem to be brought up, like in Dash Attack.

While Antonio was made to be more simple due to the criticisms at Gabriel and Hoarding Bug, I think he ironically ended up being more complex than those two sets, especially when you could say he’s effectively a two-in-one set. I admittedly thought your Jamcon set was going to be very different conceptually, like something real simple along the lines of your MYM24 sets for instance. I don’t want to layer too much criticism on you, since you are consciously making efforts to improve, but I did find myself preferring Gabriel and Hoarding Bug notably more - writing aside, I think those two sets just had more interesting concepts altogether.

At last, the legend returns in the flesh, this time as a 2 hour set that is a mere 2.3k. The set is understandably very constrained with such a short length and skipping out on damage and KO percents, but it does a surprisingly decent job at being engaging and attempting to be a serious set. Dash Attack and F-Smash felt like standout moves here, even when taking the simple Specials into consideration, while the grab game oddly feels like the most developed of the input sections and could almost pass on a 5k to 10k set.

Nonination for this Jamcon goes to Dhelmise by BridgesWithTurtles, though Asgore and Murasa.EXE were runners-up. Good job here!
 
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BrazilianGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
41
Gonna be placing the Deep Jamcon comments here

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Guys I have a confession, I've never played Undertale, and my knowledge on it comes mostly from the internet, I do know me my Deltarune, love the 2 chapters, and Asgore is funny in it, I feel like that isn't much of the case in Undertale but yeah. This set does a good job at letting you know who this goat-man monster king is and I appreciate that. I also think the moveset does a great job at representing how he doesn't really want to fight you but he will do what he must, the fire attack mechanics where they gain buffs the more they successfully land is a fun translation of that which also helps him maintain an advantage, and whole moves that also show this characterization. A really small line in Forward Air that stuck with me as far as representing that is "While the animation is very forceful, the effect on hit is oddly understated" I could be reading too much on this but it fits in with the way you portray the character so perfectly. Moves like Up Special being a pretty decent recovery for a heavy, and Side Special being a fun way to use Undertale mechanics, maybe he could have a move that burries to really take advantage of that? But perhaps it wouldn't fit his character, can't see him pull such a dirty tactic. I really value character representation in a moveset, and I'd say for what I know of the character you did Asgore justice, I mean he has a goat kick called Asgore Kick for his back aerial, that's awesome. The extras are also nice and give him some more bit of character. I enjoyed Asgore, he has really fun moves and is a nice take on a heavy that represents his character in really fun ways, a goat dad/10


Lil rock eater moveset, I said this on the Mauga comment, but seriously, this was fast work, Venture isn't even out in their own game but they already got a moveset, impressive. I didn't got to play the Venture test so my only frame of reference are some videos and the Set itself. First of all I didn't expect them to be so tall, in my head they were a smoll little goblin. I like the way you translated their gun with the Forward Tilt and Forward Aerial, and Burrow is also quite fun, being able to cancel certain moves also helps the sort of combo playstyle they seem to have in Overwatch. Also did not expect to see Down Aerial be a Down version of Up Special, don't think I've ever seen that be done which is quite fun. And yeah I think Venture is quite simple, possibly a symptom from how recent they are in the game, but they still manage to maintain a fun playstyle, I did miss the usual quotes for each move your Overwatch sets have. And while I like the victory animations you came up with Im sad none of them include rock eating. But for real, nice take on Venture, solid like a boulder. Boulder/10


Dodongo trully amazing set, funne, made Brazil Man laugh. Dodongo has fun Down Special that interacts in nice way to Forward Smash. Dodongo gets praise for what Dodongo is. Brazil Man don't understand joke about Dodongo in MYM, but Brazil Man enjoy regardless. Dodongo Up Smash amazed me, I praise Dodongo. Dodongo is big candidate to win the tournament. I root Dodongo. Smoke/10


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Hades from Hadestown is such an interesting pick for me, there's probably been plenty already, but this is the first Musical character I'm seeing, that's neat, even if I don't watch that many musicals, I do like the ones I see a lot, should watch Hadestown. I'll get my biggest gripe with Hades out of the way first, I think Persephone and the fates should have been explained in their own section, it made Side Special a bit confusing to me with all that was put there, but still I find the mechanic very fun and I like how the "Doubt comes IN!" are done. Also Side Special and the Car visual of them all going to get McDonalds is amazing and made me laugh. In general I like how he gets represented as an oil baron type, with some interesting meter management, workers, and stuff to build around the stage, taking a page out of Heavenly Light also feels very ironic considering who he is but I like it. I also like how you translated his relationship with Persephone! Having to wait for her to be ready otherwise, you'll be forcing her and making her weaker, as well as the way all the aerials have them work well together as they dance, love the reasoning you gave for that and in general I like when certain moves follow certain themes. I will say the moves get noticeably shorter as the set goes on, and also there are no extras, but I understand that such is Jamcon. Overall Hades is a cool character, I really liked some of his attacks like the car and the wall, but yeah thats kind of it, I liked him. Gets a DoubtComesIN!/10


Dhelmise is one of those Pokémon I only recall exist when I look at it. That being said, I'll be frank and admit I loved this set. Taking a Pokémon you wouldn't expect much and making such a unique moveset with it is really awesome. I really enjoyed the opening page, gives a cool vibe that follows in the moveset, I believe this is the first moveset I'm reading of yours (i need to get to read more) but it gave a fantastic first impression, love your writing style and jokes like the "Dead Weight" at the end or how you describe Dash Attack as it spitting on the foe, you also weirdly gave this bunch of sea objects with ghost powers a lot more personality than I anticipated. The Steelworker mechanic is really fun and as I mentioned earlier leads to a moveset that no other character could really replicate. Forward Smash is my favorite attack of the set, the simple "HUGE BONK" and how you can alter it and abuse it with the range from Neutral Special is awesome to me, Down Special is also worth mentioning as it caught me completely by surprise, but it's such a fun move, I love the unique directions you took with Pokémon attacks and how you translated them. Also, I appreciate there being alts, I know Jamcon timing and all that is probably he doesn't have taunts and stuff but it gets a pass. I genuinely loved the creativity you had with Dhelmise, again, you took a (for me) nothing Mon and made it super cool, I may start associating it with the moveset now. Also, we love someone who credits the artist. Dhelmise gets an Anchor/10


All my knowledge on Vampire Survivors comes from a good friend who really likes the game, I will get it someday... But Antonio is a fun pick! It feels hard to translate a character from a bullet hell game, and so does translating one from a roguelike, so I can only imagine how hard it was to even try and do Antonio. From what I know of the game you did one helluva good job translating a ton of the items into Smash, and the EXP system as well as how you get to level up is super neat, the main attraction obviously being Down Special, I like how it's random but also gives you chances to make your own build. I love how it allows player expression! I personally believe I'd go with Candalabrador, Spinach, and the Wing. The snowball potential he has is insane, and the way you describe how certain treasure chest items would buff certain moves is very fun, true to the spirit of the Jamcon, Antonio is deep with all the evolutions and perfect item combos. If I had any complaining to do, I don't like the font, but that's such a personal nitpick and has nothing to do with the quality of the set. I do like how you implement the art from the game, that's hella cool! I also enjoyed the extras, you did quite a lot for a Jamcon. Antonio was a great set! Liked him more than I anticipated, Belmonte/10
 
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n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,530
Murasa.EXE by U UserShadow7989
A pretty simple, clean set with fun Specials at its core. The anchor catch cancel mechanic is exactly the kind of thing I'm a sucker for (and also a weird synchronicity with New Jersey which I'm not sure if you've read? Definitely a "two nickels" mechanic if not). The whole thing does feel very decentralized compared to how you usually structure your sets - it's not a high-concept affair and while all the Specials are neat, none of them ever threatens to rise to the level of being a centerpiece. It's cool to see a different approach here, even if that was something you happened into versus a direction you deliberately chose for the set.

Random small nitpick, but for DSpec I'd probably frame the orb toss as a disjoint and the anchor drop as a projectile that just isn't reflectable/absorbable - smash already has toggles on projectiles to keep certain ones from being subject to that stuff. I think it might set expectations about what's going on in that move a little better, I at least got slightly mixed up reading it momentarily. (Could just be a me problem, though, I read most of it on the train while keeping an ear out for my stop, heh)

I did feel at times like the set maybe could have foregrounded her overall playstyle a bit better? Some inputs (I was particularly feeling it during DSmash and FTilt) are cool by themselves but felt maybe a bit "general" in application. Like she feels pretty well-rounded in a lot of ways that maybe erode the feel of her having particular weaknesses? Idk, I could be shorting the set here, but I didn't always have the strongest sense of how individual inputs were meant to build up the big picture.

There're a lot of fun attacks here though, and your usual strength in animation design is very present. Murasa.EXE might not have a ton of established character in the source material but you draw a lot of personality out of her and she maintains a strong energy throughout the set.
 
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