Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

[Detective Mao]

It's fine, English isn't my first language either. I really don't think it was something you couldn't answer with a few sentences, so I'm curious as to why you're immediately making a wallpost to defend yourself.

 

[ExLight]

While I'm at it we can chat a bit though.
You said you had less than a year of experience with Mafia, right Mao? How many months/games you have under your belt?

It's fine, English isn't my first language either. I really don't think it was something you couldn't answer with a few sentences, so I'm curious as to why you're immediately making a wallpost to defend yourself.

Where are you from?
I'm trying to prompt out a readslist with some explaining because I agree my last few posts were lacking and this is the best kind of content one can push umu

 

[Detective Mao]

That's right. I'm still a newbie when compared to the others here, it seems~ I don't think I have played more than ~15 games or so.

Where are you from?

Does that really matter?
Well, I'm from Europe^^

 

[ExLight]

Does that really matter?

No, not really, just curious. Lmao.

That's right. I'm still a newbie when compared to the others here, it seems~ I don't think I have played more than ~15 games or so.

That's a pretty good amount for less than a year tbh.

 

[Detective Mao]

You think so? I haven't counted the exact number of my games, I just know that it's under 15. It could also be less than 10, or 7, but I've probably played at least more than 5 games.

 

[ExLight]

You think so? I haven't counted the exact number of my games, I just know that it's under 15. It could also be less than 10, or 7, but I've probably played at least more than 5 games.

Well, at least where I usually play the signup+games usually last roughly a month, so that's a bit more than joining every game throughout the year to me.
15 to 7 is quite the gap though

 

[Detective Mao]

Let me act like an experienced player ):< It's technically the truth

Also, I have to go. See you later o/

 

[ExLight]

Let me act like an experienced player ):< It's technically the truth

Also, I have to go. See you later o/

lol cya
I promise I'll have made a more decent post by the time you're back lmao

 

[ExLight]

Damn you did a better job then me.
Also I’m using the term “Execute”.

Considering you hadn't done anything and that you ignored all public requests so far I'd say that's not too hard maybe.
You even pinged the wrong players in the OP, sigh.

ExLight's wallpost didn't really have any hard takes.

Erh I kinda agree tbh, twas more me catching up rather than putting out some content thoughts. It was more like giving my first thoughts on stuff I stumbled across while reading rather than reflecting on them, so I’m not sure what you expected me to say lmao. I took a position on the Swiss x Rhand discussion, prodded Eido, and showed interest in the Chaco x SR exchange.


I can make a list with my leans though and some brief explanations, and I guess that's better than just a bunch of butchered quotes skimmed.

I'm really agreeing with almost everything FF has been saying and he feels different from the only other game I played with him to which he was scum and a lot more composed x him being all sassy and more natural overall.

Eido I can see them being inexperienced town, and while I don't agree with how they're interpreting the game I feel like there's some logic to their approach. Him not telling the age makes me think maybe mid-late teens so I think I know what to kinda expect from him and it seems fitting so far.

Gorf feels like town sheeping. I don't like it but it's townie until they do something ****ty like try to shift the blame into the original pursuer but if he does that I'll come hounding him hard

I do like your (Mao's) criticism on stuff, although I'm not really getting town noob vibes from you like Swiss says and it kinda bothers me? While you do seem to be trying to find a discussion topic you've been a bit safe on the ongoing ones? You do make your reads loud and clear and I feel like they kinda match mine so that's cool.

I feel like Chaco comes off better in the Chaco x Scarlet Rage but it's mostly because of eloquence. SR feels a bit all over the place and voting Chaco feels like a weird tunnel. I have no idea how to interpret SR's behavior without meta, but the way they kinda just dismiss the ongoing discussions as town vs town without really seeming to give much look into it makes me feel like a very slight scumlean? I don't know, at the same time Chaco doesn't feel very genuine while SR does, I have a pretty strong gut feeling one of the two is scum. I'm placing Chaco as the townie one and SR as the scummy one but I can see it being the other way around.

Rhand could go both ways, it's NAI. I feel like so far it's the best information lynch since there was a bit of discussion around him, but I do not think his behavior is inherently scummy in any way shape or form.

Gellnick is... fine? I share some opinions with him, not getting a natural townie vibe though.

Swiss is hysterical and people putting helping inflate his ego makes him annoying to me. Again, no idea on what to think without his meta to work with but that approach comes off as scummy if he's experienced because I feel like he's been really inaccurate on the way he's reading people. Scumlean.

I'm not sure what to think about Wiisp because this attitude is a bit too "I'm a bad kid bro I skate and smoke while 17" vibes and I don't remember seeing them acting like this in other games. I really dislike the WIFOM post. Might just be trying to get the spotlight, but still, Scumlean.

Wam just popped to drop some "x player sus" and vanished without really contributing much other than saying some nonsense, feels like scum going "hey I contributed at least a BIT don't call me inactive". Scumlean.

Whysper disappeared before I had a solid opinion on them and 3DSNinja seems to be as inactive as he was in the other game I played with him which is a bit frustrating.

ExLight
FF/Eido
Mao/Gorf/Chaco
Rhand/Gellnick/Whysper/3DSNinja
Swiss/Wiisp/Wam

I think this is everyone for now?

As of 326 I get instinctual noobtown vibes from exlight, but 1) he’s not that much of a noob and 2) I feel like he’s focusing on strange things that a noob wouldn’t focus on.

boy depending on who you ask they'll say I’m an eternal noob at mafia, I tell ya

 

[ExLight]

I think this is everyone for now?

Forgot SR in the rainbow list
he comes before Swiss in the orangey part maybe

 

[ExLight]

and people putting helping inflate his ego

*people putting him on an altar and helping

I'll reread D1 later but I'm actually more interested about people's thoughts on the setup and how they think town should approach than the discussions that happened so far.

 

[Swiss]

It’s more of a shrine than an altar.

Normally with trinkets and little gifts - a few gold coins etc

 

[Swiss]

Shower, coffee, banana, hot takes

In that order

 

[ExLight]

It’s more of a shrine than an altar.

Normally with trinkets and little gifts - a few gold coins etc

what's the difference

 

[Swiss]

An Altar implies I am a god which is not true.

A shrine implies I am god like - above human and the great unwashed - but not necessarily immortal.

 

[ExLight]

An Altar implies I am a god which is not true.

A shrine implies I am god like - above human and the great unwashed - but not necessarily immortal.

but let’s be honest you’re probably just scum

 

[Wam]

Right, I'm going to move away from the game play discussion with wiisp as I dont think it will get us anywhere.

However, I do want an answer to the below

Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

Wiisp, no one's forcing you to push yourself. We're all trying our best here, but continuously defending someone isn't going to lead us anywhere. That's why I told people to drop the topic. If you're town, I'd love to discuss our reads – maybe it's better if you take a break and come back when...

smashboards.com

Basically Wiisp I want more details on your frozen read.

https://smashboards.com/threads/mafia-and-werewolves-gamethread.511493/post-24261352[/URL]

Above post from mao puts them firmly in the town camp for me.

Current view - not ordered within groups.
Town
Detective Mao
Gorf
Eido

Town lean
ExLight
Swiss
Frozen Flame
Chaco

Null
3DSNinja
gellnick
Whysper

Leaning scum
Scarlet Rage

Scum
Rhand
Wiisp

 

[Wam]

With fixed quote tags.

Right, I'm going to move away from the game play discussion with wiisp as I dont think it will get us anywhere.

However, I do want an answer to the below

Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

Wiisp, no one's forcing you to push yourself. We're all trying our best here, but continuously defending someone isn't going to lead us anywhere. That's why I told people to drop the topic. If you're town, I'd love to discuss our reads – maybe it's better if you take a break and come back when...

smashboards.com

Basically Wiisp I want more details on your frozen read.

yep, rhand and wisp very clearly are used to being the tone/pace setters in their games and are kneejerk OMGUSing slots that don't just roll over and capitulate to them

This makes a lot of sense to me.

@gellcan you explain your rhand town read more?

Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

ok first off lemme Unvote now let's go Yeah, he took an i from my name! I had to replace it with a y instead. :) oh boy Wiisp and Whysper I'll try to not confuse you two So let's all claim now was that serious because I kinda hate this suggestion Eido - anyone with a join date later...

smashboards.com

Above post from mao puts them firmly in the town camp for me.

Current view - not ordered within groups.
Town
Detective Mao
Gorf
Eido

Town lean
ExLight
Swiss
Frozen Flame
Chaco

Null
3DSNinja
gellnick
Whysper

Leaning scum
Scarlet Rage

Scum
Rhand
Wiisp

 

[Wam]

Theres a broke gellnick in the above! Need more caffeine clearly this morning.

 

[Swiss]

old
3DSNinja afk
ExLight --
gellnick -
Scarlet Rage null
Wam afk
Swiss werewolf
Wiisp indy/scum
Rhand -
FrozenFlame +
Chaco -
Whysper afk
Eido - not vanilla town +
Gorf null
Detective Mao - town ++

#262 Don't believe that was a jokey tone. Rhand still dislike

#263 to gorfs earlier. Whysper is good push, + gorf for saying it page 1, why didnt i see that, Rhand was in my way.

#266 gorf nulltown

Really dislike the way Wiisp tried to get people onside.

#276 crumbs power role - dislike wiisp
#277 ate

#287 - 315 waste of space

#316 clear reads like eido

#321 implying my lets all claim was serious. Very dumb or sinister. good push on eido. weird obsession with mao, very buddy buddy. roundbout push on rhand
"Do you know their meta? Care to share what are these "things" exactly? "
never played with them before

#327 " Could be persuaded FF, due to entrance, " more on this please chaco.
Who's your push? Don't sit back on me now

#331 he's null now, thought i already said that.
ff going too hard character assassination on wiisp.
I still want the Wiisp lynch but this feels personal. dislike ff

" swiss ignoring my questions directed at him about why he felt the setup was stacked and why we should massclaim is also grimey "
ff you really should know better. I know you know better. So what's up with that? You thought that was a dead serious suggest to mass claim but you just breezed over it mentioning it once? More on you tomorrow - stay with me on the wiisp lynch though.

#333 gorf dont flip flop. But offering to parrot me after being accused of pocketing is town.

#334 gorf full reads pls?

#338 attacking back the same way he was attacked, dislike

#342 There’s some brutal inactivity here that’s crunching my ability to do much tbh . dislike chaco
talks a lot says nothing.
But like the reads

#347 Why is Rhand town
" Why did you vote Chaco when wiisp is the top of your kill list? This is a real red flag to me. " - if you can't grasp the concept of stacking votes to create pressure you won't get very far.
" Your certainty that Exlight will join makes me think you know something the rest of us don't, werewolf or Mafia? "
Gellick dumbtown, if he can justify with a semblance of what he seems to think is reasoning, the Rhand town read.

#349 all my games are on this forum as stated before. They're all <2011.
Anyway back to ignoring him.

#352 hello

#353 more on chaco please, re-read #342 for me

monologizing good word

#355 disagree on chaco take there.

Mao reminds me of Cello's sister. Tan? Forget the name. Similar style.

#369 open sheeping isn't sheeping, gorf townlean
Mao town, definitely not noobtown.
For a guy that just acknowleged no hard stances, all your stances are weak.
if scumlean on me why no vote?
why wait for someone else to push me before you feel safe to do so?

#378 explain scarlet scum read?
baffling

new
3DSNinja afk
ExLight -- lynchable
gellnick dumbtown/null
Scarlet Rage null baffling sus
Wam no idea
Swiss werewolf
Wiisp indy/scum <lynch
Rhand -
FrozenFlame no idea
Chaco null flop
Whysper afk probs scum
Eido - not vanilla town +
Gorf null/+
Detective Mao - town +



I'll take a lynch on any of: Wiisp, ExLight, Whysper.



.38

 

[Swiss]

I cannot get my head around this wave of people sussing Scarlet.

 

[Rhand]

VOTE COUNT 1

Rhand - FrozenFlame, Detective Mao, Swiss
Wam - Scarlett Rage
Wiisp - Rhand
Whysper - Eido
ExLight - Chaco
Detective Mao - ExLight

Are there vote formatting rules? Or should we unvote before revoting?
I should be voting Swiss in this count and Scarlet Rage was voting Chaco.

 

[Wam]

I cannot get my head around this wave of people sussing Scarlet.

Threw a post with just a vote at me then disappeared. Cant speak for others but I'm waiting for an explanation before deciding further.

 

[Rhand]

I did a full reread. Notes in the spoiler because it would make a massive wall otherwise.

Spoiler: notes

3DSNinja
Knows the game is afoot and is not participating.

ExLight
Asks me “are you really panicking already”. It’s a rethorical question that won’t help him figure me out at all. Bad entrance.
Early contributions are at bare minimum.
In #108 the game is in full swing and he makes a particularly useless post.
Calls Wiisp scum in #116 without reasoning.
First votecount: still on his Mao RVS vote. After calling someone scum, that’s bad.
He keeps active lurking.
Takes him until page 9 to actually join the game, where his wall is kind of weak.
#369 makes me not want to lynch him. Most reads are well thought through and make sense. I don’t like the mention of an “information lynch”. I hope that’s not part of the site’s culture. You lynch people because they’re scum, not because they yield info. Not having Scarlet in the final list while having this “there’s scum in Chaco and Scarlet” thought is weird.
But overall good post and he comes to quite some conclusions that match my own worldview.

Gellnick
#133 nothing to say but says he’s watching. Purposeful lurking? I don’t like that.
#347 Is a total mindmeld. I think he’s town.

Scarlet Rage
I like her entrance. Minor mindmelds and at that point Chaco was indeed shady.
Needs to talk more and about other things.

Wam
Should be toDay’s lynch. His catch up is weaksauce, his reads go with the flow and he backpedaled on his “At least one of rhand and swiss are scum.” statement.
I’m allergic to readslists that don’t have any words to back them up. And his list ends up in putting all MTGS’ers on the bottom.

Swiss
I’m trying to approach him with fresh eyes, ignoring the too strong early read on me and accepting it as culture clash.
Still not a fan of him not interacting with my arguments against him.
Giving Eido a scumlean for random voting after RVS is good.
He says in #73 that he wants Wiisp and Scarlet to weigh in with their insight, which is the correct play here. However, when Wiisp does come with meta, he ignores it, first by calling Wiisp “Indy” and later actually ignoring Wiisp. And he holds on to his scumread of me, for example saying “knowing we have Rhand pinned” in #88. Swiss doesn’t seem interested in my meta at all.
I hate how he asks for doc protection in #90. Either he is way too full of himself for someone that said that his last game was in 2011 or it’s mediocre scum play 101 – trying to get the doc to protect scum to have free reign at Night in the killing department (with in this game the added bonus that the other team can’t kill you). Both are viable, so NAI.
The lack of game mechanics knowledge while having game mechanics knowledge is weird. How can you know that the cop and seer see the traitor but not that the traitor knows who all the scum are? It’s both in the sign ups. Is this town derping or scum faking? It can be both I guess. NAI.
Posts like #204 where he gives a sum up of bad / good post numbers and a list are pretty useless. He says “dislike Chaco” multiple times and votes Chaco, but we can only go guessing why he dislikes him.
He sort of drops the scum read on me but only on the premise that Wiisp is scum. But then he wants Exlight dead more yet votes Chaco. Very weird progress there.
#380 has more words than #204, that’s good. Surprisingly I find myself mindmelding quite a bit here.

Wiisp
Correctly sees that Swiss’s “Eido not VT” read seems to have no base to it.
I have big doubts that Wiisp ever would try to pocket me as mafia. I think he really wants me to be town because we’re both getting a lot of flak.
He clearly is experiencing the same culture clash as I am, and his suspicions / votes follow that logically.
I do not understand why Wiisp is being attacked for defending me because he wasn’t. All he was doing is saying that the specific things I got attacked for are NAI for me and that’s true. Wiisp has not town cleared me, so that whole reasoning of allowing Swiss to keep going while defending me being scummy is wrong. I’m sure Wiisp won’t mind if I get run up if it’s for reasons that aren’t NAI.

Frozen Flame
Reads my posts in exactly the same way Gorf / Swiss do. The culture clash is real.
One read of his that I don’t understand is calling Chaco obvtown in #181. All he gave is the quote where Chaco tells me to go meta Swiss and calls him town.
I hate how he attacks the player (Wiisp) instead of the play in #331.

Chaco
Offers unprompted Swiss meta, calling him legend scum player. Can be town warning us for Swiss’ strength but is a bad look if Swiss flips town.
Him telling me to go meta Swiss is something I’m not a fan of. It would make more sense if he would offer Swiss meta because he clearly has some and believes it contradicts my scumread instead of expecting me to go look for it. And he made a point earlier that we have to be wary of Swiss because he’s a legend scum player. He’s using meta both ways.
The Scarlet scum read developed as OMGUS, but it looks like Chaco doesn’t realize that’s what it is.
Chaco’s reasons for his play all make a lot of sense. If he’s mafia, he’s extremely good at explaining away his motives. Town is much more likely.

Whysper
Not a fan of the entrance. Feels a bit forced.
Nothing else. Feels like frozen scum.

Eido
Asking if Swiss and I know each other is good.
Votes Whysper, calls it random later but Whysper already did get a scumread (Gorf) so it’s not that random. Nagl
Wanting to meta swiss is NAI. I’ve done that as both alignments in the past.
His view on Swiss vs me is good in #124

Gorf
Same as Swiss: I’ll ignore the strength of his early convictions.
Has me and Whysper as early scum reads. I do agree on Whysper.
I also agree on the reasoning he gives later for scumleaning Whysper. And apparently “can die too” means “not enough for me to wanna put a vote” in his language. I’m going to have a hard time reading this slot.
He also assumes that way of play is the only / most normal way of play. Our clashing mafia view makes this game hard mode. It is the reason he thinks I look bad out of my interaction with Swiss because Swiss plays like him and I don’t. I think I’m talking myself into townreading Gorf. At the very least he seems to believe in his scum read on me.
His whole problem with Wiisp is all based on the culture clash we have in this game. Wiisp’s meta on me is correct, but he refuses to accept that and scumreads Wiisp for it.

Detective Mao
The mediator of the thread. It’s good to have one, I hope she’s town.
I like her more recent reads a lot.

Town
Gellnick
Detective Mao

Lean town
Scarlet Rage
Wiisp
Chaco
Gorf

Null
ExLight
Eido

Lean scum
3DSNinja
Swiss
Frozen Flame

Scum
Whysper
Wam

 

[Rhand]

Are there vote formatting rules? Or should we unvote before revoting?
I should be voting Swiss in this count and Scarlet Rage was voting Chaco.

I saw there are corrected votecounts in the spoilers of count 3.
Can we have them corrected in the original posts as well please?

 

[Rhand]

Threw a post with just a vote at me then disappeared. Cant speak for others but I'm waiting for an explanation before deciding further.

Dude that was the very post of the game. You really want her to explain a vote that was cast in RVS before anyone else even posted?

 

[Wam]

Rhand having read your notes why do you give town points for agreeing with you?

 

[Wam]

Dude that was the very post of the game. You really want her to explain a vote that was cast in RVS before anyone else even posted?

Not that one this one

Vote: Wam

 

[Rhand]

Rhand having read your notes why do you give town points for agreeing with you?

I don’t. I give town points for people posting my thoughts before I had them / wrote them down. It means they are looking at the game the same way I am.

 

[ExLight]

I'll take a lynch on any of: Wiisp, ExLight, Whysper.

so after all swiss x rhand you’re not even going to consider lynching him? lol

.38

dont think I’m not seeing that

 

[Wam]

Rhand do you know scarlet?

 

[Detective Mao]

Rhand having read your notes why do you give town points for agreeing with you?

Do you find this wolfy?

 

[Rhand]

Not that one this one

Oh right. My bad.

 

[Detective Mao]

I'll respond to ExLight's post when I have time to have a proper discussion, by the way

 

[Rhand]

Rhand do you know scarlet?

Yes, but not very well.

 

[Wam]

Do you find this wolfy?

I find it odd. As if everyone is in agreement we have normally missed something.

Yes, but not very well.

Thanks, to explain why I asked there was some hints of more understanding in your notes than I thought you could have got from the thread.

 

[Detective Mao]

I find it odd. As if everyone is in agreement we have normally missed something.

That's an interesting take. Now that we're talking, I'd like to know more about your thought process.

What's your read on Swiss?

 

[Detective Mao]

I messed up the quoting, hold on.

 

[Detective Mao]

There we go!

 

[Rhand]

I find it odd. As if everyone is in agreement we have normally missed something.



Thanks, to explain why I asked there was some hints of more understanding in your notes than I thought you could have got from the thread.

Are you talking about my notes on Scarlet now?