Lv. 9 Computer: Does it Help?

[reborn394]

As hard as the Lv. 9 computer is in Brawl, it doesn't help against good human players. Don't know if it's just me but that's what I see during my battles with people. What are your opinions concerning the Lv. 9 computer's difficulty in Brawl?

 

[ellelaby]

I think fighting lvl 9 CPU's is good to a certain extent. You can practive all your moves and techniques and all that and they move fast and fight agressively (at times).

I've only fought one human player, my brother, and I find fighting the lvl 9 cpu's does help. Especially 4-player free-for-all or 2v2 matches.

 

[Lied]

After a while, playing lvl 9 computer actually hurts my performance against human players. I get used to the computer's attack patterns so when I play real people, I keep doing the same strategy. The person picks up on my habits pretty quickly and he/she starts punishing me badly.

Also, computers have superhuman reflexes. If I play computers too much, it discourages me from using attacks that the computer can block but humans can't.

So basically, computers are nice time-killers but I don't really like to play them much.

 

[Iron Jawbone]

As far as I'm concerned, level 9 computers help if you are JUST starting a character. The computer will give you an idea on how the character moves, what kind of timing, and when they apply certain moves. Once you get a feel for that character and can consistently beat on that level 9, it's time to move to live opponents, and see how they do with that character.

 

[Negative Zero]

AIs help with some things, but hurt with others. If you play them too much, they'll teach you bad habits. Like, AIs powershielded Falco's short hop lasers in Melee. If you played them too much, you'd learn that SHL will just get you hurt so you should never do it.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

Level 8's act more human so I tend to practice against those.

 

[LarkOhiya]

9 CPU just don't fight like humans do. they also will spot dodge and air dodge when no human player would (or should) so playing them is really going to train you to fight poorly. If you do fight CPUs to get better fight a lvl 7 or sometimes 8. these wont have super human reflexes. A 7 will let you work on your juggles and or basic timing without being too good to constantly have to worry about being CPU predicted. Fight people when you can. Fight 7's when you want to work on your movement and timing, but not for reactionary attacking.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG-q-APvFKY

This is my opinion on lv. 9's.

 

[ellelaby]

Level 8's act more human so I tend to practice against those.

I think I'll start doing that. I've also noticed that when I have a few intense fights vs my brother and even though they are close I still lose, then we practive against cpu lvl 7 and then I fight him again, I noticed how my skill improves in various ways. When I play lvl 9s, I own them pretty badly, only problem is, almost half my attacks are somehow canceled out by the cpu's attacks. They always seem to get their attacks in before I do, even when I'm sure that I should have won that contest easily. And this really frustrates me because they still get the attack in, when a real person wouldn't have.

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

I think I'll start doing that. I've also noticed that when I have a few intense fights vs my brother and even though they are close I still lose, then we practive against cpu lvl 7 and then I fight him again, I noticed how my skill improves in various ways. When I play lvl 9s, I own them pretty badly, only problem is, almost half my attacks are somehow canceled out by the cpu's attacks. They always seem to get their attacks in before I do, even when I'm sure that I should have won that contest easily. And this really frustrates me because they still get the attack in, when a real person wouldn't have.

The CPU has the ability to see your command before the animation begins so I'm under the impression that Lvl 9's automatically (if they can) use an attack with higher priority. This also applies to their insane dodging and grabbing.

 

[Blackadder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG-q-APvFKY

This is my opinion on lv. 9's.

Mmmmyep.
Looks about right to me.

I want that music.

 

[reborn394]

9 CPU just don't fight like humans do. they also will spot dodge and air dodge when no human player would (or should) so playing them is really going to train you to fight poorly. If you do fight CPUs to get better fight a lvl 7 or sometimes 8. these wont have super human reflexes. A 7 will let you work on your juggles and or basic timing without being too good to constantly have to worry about being CPU predicted. Fight people when you can. Fight 7's when you want to work on your movement and timing, but not for reactionary attacking.

Yes, the bad habits are existent when I battle human players. I think I'll just battle Lv. 7 or 8 for now until I enter a tournament in NYC (Wi-Fi is just too laggy for me). I guess I'll wait until my brother wakes up so we can have a match .

 

[LarkOhiya]

I have to agree. lvl 9's react almost perfectly to your button presses. Try timing a jump or other movement altering move at the exact time you do an A attack. this will make it so the A attack does not go out but you DO jump. watch as the cpu reacts ever so slightly (Before it corrects itself) as if you DID use that A attack...stupid cheating computers.

 

[Blackadder]

...stupid cheating computers.

Peh, what did you expect?

 

[ICANTCOUNT123456]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG-q-APvFKY

This is my opinion on lv. 9's.

Well thats just because there computers, if you fight them like human, they are practice.

 

[ThaDirtyG]

I personally like fighting computers. It gives you a good opportunity to focus on combos and tech. A great training exercise is to switch to team and fight 3 lvl 9s at once. It forces you to concentrate really hard on the defensive mechanisms at your disposal (which are amazing...). I got this little "drill" from dmbrandon - he suggests that you should aim to take at least 2-3 stocks before dieing.

I found that by putting in a solid hour of this, switching back to a single lvl 9 was much easier, and I played significantly better against my usual human opponents later.

I would argue that lvl 9 computers are great for what they are, but they will never replace a human. Treat them as a training partner for mastering your tech, but not your metagame.

 

[tehbeef]

Lvl 9s are fantastic for one purpose - practicing your side-step and air-dodges. If you play time matches with no items and focus only on dodging everything the computer throws at you (try and finish a 4 min match on FD with no deaths and minimal damage, for example) and don't fight at all unless you're spacing, you will be amazed at how quickly you will be able to consistently air/side dodge against humans (because you learn the timing for a large range of characters very well, especially if you set the computers to random). I've done this, and going into human matches I've found it very easy to just avoid being hit at all.

 

[Browny]

despite the CPU's ability to help you practice dodging etc, theres nothing i can do to practice against pikmin spam

 

[reborn394]

Wow! Alot of interesting opinions and ideas here. I really appreciate all the suggestions from you guys; and remember, the more the better. This is what a community is all about anyway-To help each other and share ideas

 

[cwjalex]

most good smashers agree that playing level 9's will make you worse against humans

 

[swim2007]

If you only play against level 9s, all you will be doing is adjusting to patterns. Eventually you will figure out what the cpu will do in certain situations and be able master them by hitting their weakness. This is good and all in 1 player modes, but against a real human that is not pattern oriented, this tactic will fail.

 

[Wolfang]

I think CPU's are good for making someone a more aggressive fighter, but yeah what ends up happening is that you learn patterns and it eventually becomes simple. I remember when fighting 3 lvl 9 Fox's on a team became cake because they would follow me to the edge, jump, and I could spike as many times as needed to ruin them. CPU's don't teach you anything about camping opponents, but I think if you do 2 different characters on 1, you can still learn something.

 

[LoyalSoldier]

A good computer can only do so much. The thing you have to remember is that computers can never get better while humans can. What computers can do is give you resistance while trying new techniques, but you have to keep in mind that the computer can only do so much.

 

[Unusual_Rex]

I think to some degree lvl. 9 CPUs help. They are quick and attack often. I think when you have no one to play they can be of help. You can learn to pull of moves quicker and get some practice in. Onlt downfall is no one actually plays like a computer player.

 

[Ørion]

I think 9s can help with your reflexes, but thats about it. One other thing though is that you can watch two 9s fight and set one of them to your main, and see some of the combos they do. These might be good, might be bad but you can try them out later.

 

[M.K]

I work on Level 6-7 and they give me a good challenge!

 

[Greenpoe]

Level 9's can occasionally teach us a thing or two...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXrnF7Dq0Rg

 

[templar rage]

I agree with everyone that says Lvl 9s help your skills (dodge, tech, whatever). I also agree with the pattern thing screwing you up vs a human player. I fight lvl 7s because they aren't as far off a human player as lvl 9s. IMO, if you graphed the usefulness of all computer players, it would a parabola (upside down U-shape) with lvl 7 being the peak. If you can't grasp the picture, find a graphing calculator and graph X squared

 

[really_calm]

Level 9's can occasionally teach us a thing or two...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXrnF7Dq0Rg

I'm impressed!

I feel a lvl 9 cpu is good for teaching so basic things about spacing, air dodging, punishing predictability, and executing more unpredictable moves yourself.

definitely don't over do it though; play more people

 

[Corimon]

[deleted.]

 

[andysoard]

lvl 9 kinda help

Playing against lvl 9 can be good to practice your moves, and they seem to go after you if your playing free-for-all, but like everyone has been saying they can only train you so far, the best way to practice is to get others to play.

 

[ldxazamb]

well i think lv.9 cpu are good to train on but dont get the K.O s on them on something you know they will fall for in other wards dont edge gaurd against them so you can practice your combos more efficently

 

[Z O S O]

I'm pretty sure fighting a lv 9 computer can do more good than harm, if you keep enough distance from your computer fighting strategies and your human fighting stragtegies there should be no problem. It's still good practice.

 

[Armus]

Computers don't react and adapt their strategy like a human would. Lv. 9s also like to cheat and read your button presses before the animation begins. I do like the Lv. 7 idea though. That's what I'm gonna start doing.

 

[BlankShot]

imo, the only thing computers are good for are showing you what the enemy's moves are, and give you an insight as to how they can be used against you. Anti-computer strategies will not always translate into Anti-human strategies.

 

[HiIH]

I have a question.

When did Level 9's in brawl become hard?

 

[Ereki]

When I can't get a match with my friends on WiFi, I use a level 9 computer, and set it as 1 on 1. If anything, you could use it as practice, but I wouldn't count on it completely, as the AI is somewhat limited, or, likes to cheat. As for example, all the Level 9 CPU of Marth spams the Side-B of two hits on both sides, and hunts you down with a D-Air if you try and air-combo early.

 

[reborn394]

I think to some degree lvl. 9 CPUs help. They are quick and attack often. I think when you have no one to play they can be of help. You can learn to pull of moves quicker and get some practice in. Onlt downfall is no one actually plays like a computer player.

Interesting post. Remember to edit the Onit part

 

[orintemple]

They are better than in Melee for practice, but that isn't saying much. You can technical skills like powershielding and stuff on them but otherwise there is no point.

 

[cwjalex]

They do way more harm than good. Play a level 1 computer if you are going to play computers. Training with Level 1 > Level 9 any day of the week. If you play consistently against a level 9 you will develop such bad habits that will be impossible to break after a while (like rolling all the time)