Lumpy's peach (critique)

[LumpyCPU...]

i've been wanting to post vids for a while to get some advice.
too bad the peach boards are dead as balls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIyZYdQG-4Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmQG8w4WcYY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0t1gsRVGbE

park is better than me, just so you know

 

[Sh0ckwave]

Up B oos works well on pillar spamming falcos. You should implement it into your game.

Learning to power shield can help neutralize his laser spamming game. (I'm not so great with this one myself, but every good Peach is supposed to have this down)

Dash attacks work well after downsmash if he doesn't tech, and launches him into the perfect position for a grab.

You don't use turnips much. Turnips do 7 - 36% each and are good for lead-ins, camping, and edgeguarding when Peach can't make it in time.

Grabs are Falco's worst nightmare against Peach. Dash dance mindgames can help you get in a grab or two that could easily cost him a stock.

Work on Float canceling more quickly. One hit on Falco can lead to devastating combos, but you gotta be quick enough to get those hits in. Don't let up with the pressuring or Falco will take advantage since he's the faster character.

Overall, you appear to have a good grasp of the character. imo, speed, followups, and turnip usage are what you should work on most.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

yeah i use turnips a lot more when i'm not fighting spacies due the the pressure i feel to keep moving.
park's falco has amazing shield pressure and an overwhelmingly aggressive style for me.
in most of our matches i'm in panic mode, making poor mistakes.
i usually feel like falco is my best match up, (or close to it) but this specific falco won't get off my nuts long enough for me to think lol

so upB oos will help with his shield pressure (more so than my usual missed shield grab)
and if i don't have time to float above the lasers, power shielding will help to slow his approach.

so thanks a lot for the tips. they're hard to come by when the boards are so dead.

 

[Pink Shinobi]

So Lumpy...hi I miss you.

Anyways...I'll try to give tips, but I'm not good myself so sorry. ^_^

You really should utilize OOS Up+B when any character is shield pressuring you (and when they're in range). Learning when to do it depends on the character you're fighting (just experiment the timing). Peach shouldn't be shield pressured so often, except by marth cuz of his long sword. But don't be predictable with it (obviously >_>

Also, practice other OOS options. Its not as good as other chars, but it's the only way you can punish well spaced smash attacks cuz her grab range and WD aren't that good (ie, via FC OOS).

Another thing, practice your using FC aerials quickly. Use FC whenever you can, because without them, Peach can't compete with the top chars. You can follow up with more "things" then just d-smash after FC'd aerials, the typical peach attack string that most opponents are expecting. Experiment about what you do can after a FC'd aerial and mix up your game a little bit. Remember to keep mixing up your attack patterns throughout every match.

Hmmm I dunno, there aren't much things I know...I dunno, THE BEST ADVICE IS TO UNPLUG THEIR CONTROLLER! Or like Brandon use to say, threaten their life.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

haha yeah, it's been a while.
we should do double peach again one day, really. lmao!
i still remember playing against double foxes (juzz and jmic) on corneria.
two peach walls are better than one!

and good tips btw
(stop being modest about being a great peach player)
yeah. i usually approach with fc'd bair to dsmash. but i think i should jab before the dsmash so it'll be more likely to get through their shield. i started upBing oos, along with full jump nairs and fc'd bairs.
i'm also figuring out how to get more grabs utilizing DDing.

i'll post another match or 2 soon (i think) and you BETTER watch those ones too lol

 

[Pink Shinobi]

Its mostly the fighting games mindset, like when I play SF III or Tekken 6, you just "gotta know" when to do somethin. I dunno...

 

[LumpyCPU...]

well i seriously am bad at those games.
i have to play a game for a long time before i can efficiently improvise away from basic strategy.
(as you've seen with melee. lol)

 

[FYASKO]

Grabs are Falco's worst nightmare against Peach. Dash dance mindgames can help you get in a grab or two that could easily cost him a stock.

peach cant do much out of a grab unless you can combo with her.
she cant cg falco if he di's hard behind peach
so the most you're probably going to get is a grab>follow up move.

grabs arent bad obviously, theyre definitely good, but grabs arent falco's worst nightmare if they're decent

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peach can't cg Falco?

 

[kirbstir]

peach cant do much out of a grab unless you can combo with her.
she cant cg falco if he di's hard behind peach
so the most you're probably going to get is a grab>follow up move.

grabs arent bad obviously, theyre definitely good, but grabs arent falco's worst nightmare if they're decent

None of this is true information

 

[FYASKO]

if you say so =D

 

[JFox]

Peach's best weapon vs falco is grab. At 0, you can grab uthrow dsmash no matter how they grab, putting them at 35% from one grab. After 30%, you can chaingrab them to 108ish if ur good at CGs, no matter how well they DI. Then you can nair edgegaurd. It isn't uncommon to see pro players (vidjo) get on grab at 0 and take a stock from fox or falco. uthrow, dsmash tech chase, regrab chaingrab, nair edgegaurd.

Even on no fd stages, you can combo really well out of grabs. Its def her best weapon on spacies.

 

[FYASKO]

situation a)
if they di onto a platform, that wont work. (or they could tech the first hit of the dsmash.)

b) find me a vid of a peach cg'ing a falco, when he di's properly.

 

[kirbstir]

If they DI onto a platform, chase them

Everybody else seems to know the %s Peach can cg falco, why don't we just get m2k in here to answer

 

[Pink Shinobi]

Peach is good. Just that her grab range is ****ty.

 

[JFox]

I've done extensive research on chaingrabbing fox and falco, and most of my percents are confirmed with m2k. Also note that all of these percents are before the actual throw does any damage.

Technically, you can start the chaingrab as low as like 18% on fox, and falco would be around 23% cuz he falls a bit faster. This means that if fox fully DI's to either side of you, you can still regrab him once he hits 18%. However, this is playing frame perfect and probably can't be done without AR. Most people can't do a successful chaingrab til after 30%.

The chaingrab is than impossible to escape, no matter how they DI. If they stop DI'ing, and jump out as soon as the "hitstun" of the grab wears off, they can jump out at about 108% (fox) or ~114% (falco). However, this is only if you are grabbing them perfectly so that you are grabbing them as soon as they enter your grab range. Due to human error, most people end up being able to jump out a bit sooner.

I personally stop chaingrabbing Fox if he is over ~104%, and I stop chaingrabbing falco if he is over 108%. Remember that people don't jump out frame perfect, so even if your not perfect, they won't always jump out properly.

If Fox and Falco do not stop DI'ing fully left or right, you can keep regrabbing them 145%+ percent. I believe it even goes well over 150% if you are frame perfect, but I always stop at 140 cuz I just nair after that. Note that if they only slight DI, they will be able to jump out sooner, depending on how slight the DI is. Not that you can really be sure, but as a general rule, I would say that slight DI will allow them to jump out between 118%-130%ish depending on how slight that DI is.

(Note- The following information about falcon is less based on research, and more based on experience through gameplay, so the percents may be plus or minus 5%.)

With Falcon you can do the same thing as fox and Falco, only the chaingrab starts sooner, and ends sooner. Falcon cg starts at 0%, and goes til ~74% if they stop DI'ing. I would stop cg'ing them after 70. If they keep full DI'ing left and right, they can't jump out til 94~.

 

[Bailey]

More Down Smashes

 

[XIF]

I rarely cg Falco, it doesn't seem to work as well, and besides, u throw to d smash is fine at low percent, then u throw to dash attack or f tilt or nair to get them off the stage. I find it better to start edgeguarding Falco ASAP, and try to build more damage with Fox.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

I rarely cg Falco, it doesn't seem to work as well, and besides, u throw to d smash is fine at low percent, then u throw to dash attack or f tilt or nair to get them off the stage. I find it better to start edgeguarding Falco ASAP, and try to build more damage with Fox.

yeah. i don't even go for chaingrabs on falco. i just try get them off the edge right away.

peach's best option is gimping/edgeguarding against falco, imo.

 

[FYASKO]

lol until i see proof it will work (wich it doesnt)
falco cant be cg;d by peach if the falco di's 8D

and yes the best thing peach has in general against spacies is edgegaurding.
her grab game isnt very good. against anyone.
its got kill potential, and u can cg fox/falcon.
peach doesnt have stupid raep combos.
so shes forced to be gay.

peach cant cg falco.
well, no.
she can if the falco doesnt di properly, or is just bad. (or is a cpu)

 

[LumpyCPU...]

she does have good/great combos on falcon and falco.
i don't play gay... but i've noticed peaches that do, go farther than me.
which sucks. lol
i feel like i'm being a little on the innovative side (like dair to uiar kills and stuff like that)

idk. i'm realizing where i need to improve. i space horribly. lol

p.s. FYASKO is a sick *** name. lol

 

[JFox]

lol until i see proof it will work (wich it doesnt)
falco cant be cg;d by peach if the falco di's 8D

and yes the best thing peach has in general against spacies is edgegaurding.
her grab game isnt very good. against anyone.
its got kill potential, and u can cg fox/falcon.
peach doesnt have stupid raep combos.
so shes forced to be gay.

peach cant cg falco.
well, no.
she can if the falco doesnt di properly, or is just bad. (or is a cpu)

Tell me, what is the super DI you speak of? What DI can she not grab Falco with? Say Falco is at 50%, how should he DI the uthrow so that she can't regrab?

 

[Samochan]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2933012&postcount=2

Blargh

Go debate the false cg info someplace else fyasko before this turns into fiasco. <_<

 

[Rain(ame)]

Fyasko...if ANYBODY knows about Chain grabbing a Falco, it's JFox..and he Chain grabs them ever so sexily, too. It IS possible to Chain grab a Falco. I think we've mostly established this. However, there are those who choose not to, Like XIF. *shrugs* I kinda think it'd be pointless for you to debate that even further, mah dood. I've seen it against good Falcos, also by the people you're talking too, also some that post in this forum. Also, by myself. *shrugs*

 

[FYASKO]

lol k i wont debate it any further ^_^
but vids or it didnt happen, ;3

p.s
ty lumpy <3

 

[RaynEX]

uh...

fyasko the CG is inescapable. Full d.i. in front/behind yields the exact same distance. You can't SDI her uthrow, only her fthrow. Jfox knows what he's talking about.

 

[kirbstir]

Give us vids of this amazing DI or it didn't happen fyasko. Same logic works both ways, doesn't make it a valid argument.

 

[Samochan]

lol k i wont debate it any further ^_^
but vids or it didnt happen, ;3

p.s
ty lumpy <3

You know the results magus posted (the link I gave ya) were done on AR right?

It's not even tricky to cg falco, he's almost the same as fox and the difference between chaingrabbing fox versus falco is negligible. Every peach that can cg has done it. There are 10x times more difficult things on melee than timing a simple chaingrab with peach and many have been able to do those tough things consistently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E1I0Q3ZIlw

First example, falco's second stock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr70TDmsB-w

Here's another example on the end.