Luigi's Match-Up Chart thread

[Bamesy]

Does anyone want to actually argue some matchups? Some reason there's a bunch of posts here but it's mostly about unimportant stuff ~_~

Let's start on Falco because apparently Falco is so easy right

So, what are Luigi's answers / responses to ...

A. Spaced lasers
B. Dair in place in reaction to wavedashes forward
C. Low Dair on shield -> shine -> fading Nair
D. Getting shined

I don't really know what Luigi can feasibly do if Falco threatens out of immediate striking range but inside the range where Luigi can wavesmash. If you try to wavedash in you get a Dair, if you try to jump and attack Falco and just laser you.

I'd love to play some more Luigis with my janky Falco, I'll be at Pound 5 so hopefully I'll see some of you there

Yeah not much 'discussing' about match ups really.

A. Spaced lasers means what? Far/close or in comboing or something? It's all different/the same applies to every character. What's Falco planning? "Imma lazer and he'll have to shield it! Or he'll get hit, but probably not, or he'll PS it instead. Pretty good options."
He forgot Luigi moves by WAVEDASHING which you can do OUT OF YOUR SHIELD.
Lasers are the same for every character, completely avoidable.
As Armada says, lasers are Falcos most overrated trick. As Mango doesn't do, laser.
They suck, really.

B. If you get hit with a Dair in place when you WD in, then bait it rather than go in. It's a hurdle, but it's like if Falco jumps in to approach Luigi and Luigi ftilts or Fairs him on reaction/prediction. Same thing, it's as easy to avoid as "Don't commit to something when Falco has enough room and time to Dair you before you hit him/shield/move.

C. Light Shield/WD OOS into a neutral position/behind him/etc. Same deal against every character, it's a Falco trick, like a Luigi Dair/Nair/jab>Grab or dsmash or whatever mix up.

D. Less is done to Luigi off a shine than any other character in the game.
Falco Question Parrallel (even worse for him actually) : Getting grabbed?

Kirby vs Luigi go

Kirby vs Luigi - Unwinnable : (100 - Unwinnable)

Dayum...that sucks!

Worst
Sheik/Fox

Probably Badish
Falcon/Peach

Possibly Better Or Worse, At Least Evenish
Marth/Ganon/Falco/Doc/Jiggs/ICs/Samus

Probably Goodish
Mario/Pikachu

Best
The Rest

That's mine

QFT??? Maybe???

Bamesy if you want to be taken seriously about Falco/Luigi being even you should argue your case a bit better.

Aightz

it seems u dont really have it bamesy. im not saying u dont have to improvise with any other character of the roster.. but there are centain hits, taht goes right after another with some characters with no mistake. wiith luigi u have to play like i say in spanish, al filo de la navaja. ''with the edge of the knife'' u may know what that means. be more open minded bro, and start thinking the possibilities the other peple is giving u. no offense dude. dont get angry. kiss* haha

well gustav, for me it is like this:

worst:
sheik

pretty bad:
fox
falcon

kiknda bad:
falco
ganon
marth
peach

maybe marth is above ganon for me beacuse i know how to space it better.. i dont really know. but i know they are one above other. but not for much

Yeah I take what others say, open to other possibilities etc. haha
Luigi has a lot of things that lead into one another, aerial killing moves that can be lead into through grabs etc at killing % being one of the bigger ones.

Edge of the knife. Is that like a 'glass canon' or something? I think I understand, he can be amazing but it means taking risks. Reminds me of Falcon going for a techchase knee instead of easy regrabs, since he has to take that risk to do the best he can. ;p

I'm gonna copy you hahaha <3
"Be more open minded, start thinking of the possibilities."

Everyone is saying Falco gives Luigi a hard time, but how many people have actually been able to reach near his best against Falco? It's the one match up that I've had more practice in at a top level than any other, and against people that know how to play AGAINST Luigi too. I'm not the only one who found a way around Falco, Ka did too at one time (but around a lot more than me). Axe was the first to find ways around Pika's tough match ups, because there was simply nobody to do it before him. He won't be the last, that's for sure.

Luigi has ways, everyone is good or bad at some part or match up, if it could all be combined into 1, we'd get our 'Ka' back, or 'Axe' of Luigi. A modern 'Great Luigi' that's been missing for a long time. Hopefully more than one.

Your list is pretty much the core characters as far as what concerns Luigi.

The edgegame that Marth and Ganon have is what really hurts me. Spikes, long range and great airgame off stage that can be lead to from on stage things. Ganon can get Luigi offstage easier at any % and that's why I'd say he's a little worse. Marth can't have people inside, and Luigi can get there. Ganon is safer, he's boring and basic, exactly what Luigi's speed and 'improvising' (as you mentioned haha) isn't going to effect much.
PS: I think Marth sucks like Falco against Luigi. lol

In all Seriousness I'll give u that. If you know what to do vs Luigi as a Sheik it changes alot. if you try to Dsmash luigi's Dsmash you'll get *****. however Luigi's with lots of Sheik experience may lose but the matches are always close losses. I think Luigi's game overall is underrated/underdeveloped. He's like Pikachu Pre-Axe Effect.

Matchups are only based off the match up, not if players suck more than the one they're playing. lol
Luigi is ridiculously underdeveloped.

 

[Winston]

I agree that Luigi is extremely underdeveloped, and that we lack a really high level "modern" Luigi.

I think that's like the only thing we can agree on ><

(besides that Marth sucks against Luigi)

 

[Blea Gelo]

Yeah not much 'discussing' about match ups really.

A. Spaced lasers means what? Far/close or in comboing or something? It's all different/the same applies to every character. What's Falco planning? "Imma lazer and he'll have to shield it! Or he'll get hit, but probably not, or he'll PS it instead. Pretty good options."
He forgot Luigi moves by WAVEDASHING which you can do OUT OF YOUR SHIELD.
Lasers are the same for every character, completely avoidable.
As Armada says, lasers are Falcos most overrated trick. As Mango doesn't do, laser.
They suck, really.

B. If you get hit with a Dair in place when you WD in, then bait it rather than go in. It's a hurdle, but it's like if Falco jumps in to approach Luigi and Luigi ftilts or Fairs him on reaction/prediction. Same thing, it's as easy to avoid as "Don't commit to something when Falco has enough room and time to Dair you before you hit him/shield/move.

C. Light Shield/WD OOS into a neutral position/behind him/etc. Same deal against every character, it's a Falco trick, like a Luigi Dair/Nair/jab>Grab or dsmash or whatever mix up.

D. Less is done to Luigi off a shine than any other character in the game.
Falco Question Parrallel (even worse for him actually) : Getting grabbed?




Dayum...that sucks!


Best
The Rest

That's mine


QFT??? Maybe???


Aightz



Yeah I take what others say, open to other possibilities etc. haha
Luigi has a lot of things that lead into one another, aerial killing moves that can be lead into through grabs etc at killing % being one of the bigger ones.

Edge of the knife. Is that like a 'glass canon' or something? I think I understand, he can be amazing but it means taking risks. Reminds me of Falcon going for a techchase knee instead of easy regrabs, since he has to take that risk to do the best he can. ;p

I'm gonna copy you hahaha <3
"Be more open minded, start thinking of the possibilities."

Everyone is saying Falco gives Luigi a hard time, but how many people have actually been able to reach near his best against Falco? It's the one match up that I've had more practice in at a top level than any other, and against people that know how to play AGAINST Luigi too. I'm not the only one who found a way around Falco, Ka did too at one time (but around a lot more than me). Axe was the first to find ways around Pika's tough match ups, because there was simply nobody to do it before him. He won't be the last, that's for sure.

Luigi has ways, everyone is good or bad at some part or match up, if it could all be combined into 1, we'd get our 'Ka' back, or 'Axe' of Luigi. A modern 'Great Luigi' that's been missing for a long time. Hopefully more than one.

Your list is pretty much the core characters as far as what concerns Luigi.

The edgegame that Marth and Ganon have is what really hurts me. Spikes, long range and great airgame off stage that can be lead to from on stage things. Ganon can get Luigi offstage easier at any % and that's why I'd say he's a little worse. Marth can't have people inside, and Luigi can get there. Ganon is safer, he's boring and basic, exactly what Luigi's speed and 'improvising' (as you mentioned haha) isn't going to effect much.
PS: I think Marth sucks like Falco against Luigi. lol



Matchups are only based off the match up, not if players suck more than the one they're playing. lol
Luigi is ridiculously underdeveloped.

?


i see your points, and every time i read, im seeing more infinite points. this game is to big, and ull never get to a point. i understand everything you'r saying bro, i do.

dont compare experiencies, u dont know the experiences i have, neither i do yours. so shh with that. u dont know more than anyone here, you just have another point of view.

i never said falco was one of the hardest match ups. like i wrote, falco is lower in my match up list, i think the same way u do.

i play with linguini, so i know the match up pretty well. my english does not let me explain it well because my english sucks XD. i gotta use the translate to understand, and write everything i do here ^^. marth and falco does not suck against luigi tho.. the match up its close enoth, the balance its a litlle more to falco, and i played with m2k, i only beated him like 3 of 10 matches.. i know how he plays, also played with ib. and thats what i think about that match up bro.

i dont want to discuss more with u bro:S. this is turning aggressive, and thats not the idea. so nice talking to u. i think a lot about what people say, dont give me that advise, u should take it and start thinking and comparing ideas. its a pleasure

 

[Bamesy]

?Aggressive? I've never been aggressive in discussion in my life. lol
It's nice discussion we're having/had, that's all. hahah
It's a good thing.

I said we all have different experiences and if we combine ALL of everyone's best matchups and experience in all the matchups, then we'd see the match ups differently because we'd all understand. With my posts so far I'm just trying to see if anyone else sees Flaco the way I do/understands the match up at a certain level.
Quote: You don't know what you don't know.
I don't know crap about Shiek other than it hurts. If somebody comes here and lays out a plan on how they think they've figured something out about beating the best Shieks, I'd listen to them and vice versa. For me, I know Falco enough to say it's not that bad. I'd like to share that and hopefully it helps someone, because I really have reached a level where I know that Falco won't hurt me anymore than it can hurt Ka, or any other amazing Luigi that comes along. That's all.
You're repeating a lot of what I said, so we're on the same page really. It's a good thing. lol

As you said, we're here to compare ideas + discuss our different experiences + see what others think + talk about how infinite this game is.
Keep going, it's friendly discussion, sorry if it sounded not friendly.

PS: Marth and Falco suck. lol

 

[Winston]

Bamesy, you're not helping those of us who don't understand the Falco matchup "at your level" though. All you've said really is that Luigi can wavedash out of shield. We all know this.

 

[Bamesy]

I'll try and explain later.
Maybe I'll just add the long-overdue Falco section to the LLL thread. :/
Sowy for being lazy/undescriptive/not really helping. lol
Any ideas on how I can explain my reasoning better? Like specific details or something?
I have an idea, but if there's anything in particular, let me know.
Lasers don count. ;P

 

[Wenbobular]

You should come to Pound 5 so we can play because I don't think some of your points are very accurate

Spaced lasers - laser so you won't get hit by something out of shield ... I don't think most Falcos know when to stop because the distance you're safe to laser is much farther than basically any other character of because of Luigi's long wavedash

You don't have to start he Dair until you see Luigi start his wavedash toward you, so if you don't move forward Falco doesn't bother Dairing leaving you with nothing to bait

Nevermind about fading Nair

I'm pretty sure Falco can put you through all sorts of junk if you get shined. Luigi doesn't really have a good move to save him from being hit from below - Dair is slow enough to be baited or just doesn't come out in time, Nair doesn't have a good enough hitbox to hit a spaced Uair

As for getting grabbed ...

A) You shouldn't be getting grabbed that much in the first place
B) DI behind and teching everything makes every techchase a 50/50 guess for the most part assuming you can cover tech in place / no tech on reaction, neutral DI at highish % and away DI at medium % gets you out of combos

 

[Winston]

Spaced lasers - laser so you won't get hit by something out of shield ... I don't think most Falcos know when to stop because the distance you're safe to laser is much farther than basically any other character of because of Luigi's long wavedash

I don't think it's really knowing when to stop, because if just stand in place and laser it stops him from moving towards you quickly (he can only advance a little bit between each laser since the laser stops his his waveshield momentum). It's more about being ready for Luigi's options whenever you DECIDE to stop lasering.

I mean lasering isn't autowin obviously but I think barring really really good powershielding Falco has way better control of the ground options and is an advantageous position if he is smart about it using lasers. Luigi can get hits on falco if he gets reads but his reads are riskier to commit to.

Falco can CC/tech everything until like 40+ percent also, even if he's doing an aerial or something -_-

I'm pretty sure Falco can put you through all sorts of junk if you get shined. Luigi doesn't really have a good move to save him from being hit from below - Dair is slow enough to be baited or just doesn't come out in time, Nair doesn't have a good enough hitbox to hit a spaced Uair

Agreed; I'm pretty sure Falco can just straight up combo Luigi like he combos everybody else when Luigi gets shined.

He can also abuse Luigi's difficulty in getting down safely just like everyone else. Bair > everything, and lasers -> stuff is also troublesome. Stuff like dair/nair to reverse utilt is also really effective.

 

[Bamesy]

Good Falcos know how to use Lasers good. Falcos who know how to use Lasers against Luigi use them good even more. lol

If Falco does a fading Dair and misses, you can grab him. 1 example of when getting grabbed happens. It can happen just as much as getting shined. It's the thing Falco has to watch out for, just like Luigi has to watch out for Dairs. :/

For baiting a Dair and Falco DOESN'T Dair, then he didn't fall for the bait. If you WD in and he Dairs you, you'll fell for his bait.
It's all a baiting game there, no difference for either character. You just have to be the one to make the first move. Risk factor, like Falcon going for a grab, he has to at some point since that's his game.

Being in the air is tough, with any character, but especially Luigi. This doesn't mean it's impossible to get grounded again. You mention baiting game, but patience and precision can actually make you REALLY tough to catch in the air with anything significant without getting hit. Good Falcos against Luigi that know they're playing a good Luigi will eventually simply laser you for extra % when a combo ends, because they know it's not worth the They'll eventually just end comboing you sooner though, which is beneficial and annoying. lol

I had an MM recorded against one of the Falcos you might know but it was on a VHS and can't be uploaded lol. I'll see if something can be done on Thanksgiving, maybe seeing what I mean in action would help better than explaining (it really is impossible to explain this type of thing in words lol)

I'll be going to RoM if you want to play. I won't be using Luigi aside from doubles a bit so if you're looking for me just yell Bamesy and the guy playing Falcon or something might be me. lol

PS: Falcos shine comboing Luigi isn't what's tough or gamebreaking about this matchup, just like most other characters. His lasers aren't the game enders either. It's the other stuff like Dairs, Bairs, Utilts and Nairs to keep Luigi out that cause problems.

PPS: Be aggressive against Falco. That's a key thing. If Marth camped Falco from far, he wouldn't do any damage. He stays on Falco to hit him and make Falco take the risks of attacking or backing away. Luigi can do the same/needs to do the same. Be in Falcos face and Fair the air, if he jumps he gets hit, if he tries to attack back, you have more aerials, spacing and a good WD.

DD more, against everyone.
(quick random post-thoughts)

 

[Winston]

Jumping out of shield with an aerial is a guess though. If falco doesn't approach when you do it you'll get hit by two lasers and an aerial into whatever.

You might call this just a baiting game that's even for both sides, but it's a baiting game that's skewed in falco's favor. Falco doesn't risk anything by not committing and continuing to laser, but you do risk something (although small) by continuing to wait. You get put into a shield pressure situation that results in either a shine, a grab, or a reset of the situation with you losing a little bit of stage position.

 

[Archangel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_63Hs5fIWw

I got *****

 

[Winston]

Thanks for the input spam_arrows

 

[Wenbobular]

¬.¬

DI back more when you get grabbed, don't illusion stupidly onto the stage, ledgehop drill when they airdodge, Uair when you get a shine off, do later aerials so you don't get shieldgrabbed, don't randomly dash attack into shield, stop sidestepping so much, don't overcommit to combos that don't work on Luigi

My critiques

Toning down on the haterade because Winston thinks I'm drinking it

 

[Archangel]

¬.¬

DI back more when you get grabbed, don't illusion stupidly onto the stage, ledgehop drill when they airdodge, Uair when you get a shine off, do later aerials so you don't get shieldgrabbed, don't randomly dash attack into shield, stop sidestepping so much, don't overcommit to combos that don't work on Luigi

My critiques

Toning down on the haterade because Winston thinks I'm drinking it

These were sets from months ago. Friendlies at that. I didn't know how to play falco/play vs luigi.

Same player lost to Blunted Object at Apex....but it's Blunted Object.

 

[Wenbobular]

What was the point of posting it then <_< showing Luigi can combo a Falco who runs into moves and DI's / techs suboptimally? That's not exactly news ...

 

[Archangel]

What was the point of posting it then <_< showing Luigi can combo a Falco who runs into moves and DI's / techs suboptimally? That's not exactly news ...

nah smart guy. The reason I posted it is as obvious as your David spade 1993 sarcasm. I even typed it out.

 

[Bamesy]

Jumping out of shield with an aerial is a guess though. If falco doesn't approach when you do it you'll get hit by two lasers and an aerial into whatever.

You might call this just a baiting game that's even for both sides, but it's a baiting game that's skewed in falco's favor. Falco doesn't risk anything by not committing and continuing to laser, but you do risk something (although small) by continuing to wait. You get put into a shield pressure situation that results in either a shine, a grab, or a reset of the situation with you losing a little bit of stage position.

Sounds like Falcon vs Falco in terms of committing to things. :D lol

I don't like jumping OOS when under shield pressure unless absolutely garaunteed.
Anyone Nair OOS like a Shiek much? I don't watch many vids so I don't know what the deal is with what people do now. It's just something I sometimes do against Falcos (from playing Shiek before probs) and Ka commented on me doing that saying he should more too. That was about a year ago though.
Pretty much if I approach with Shield or something and they're SH lasering or Dairing or Shield themselves, a SH Nair/FJ Nair/Fading Nair is a great combo starter/bait tool. Kind of like a Falcon SH kneeing backwards in anticipation of a roll etc, or shielding, then SH kneeing a spot dodge/shine or something.
Bait in pressure is sexy.

These were sets from months ago. Friendlies at that. I didn't know how to play falco/play vs luigi.

Same player lost to Blunted Object at Apex....but it's Blunted Object.

I'll see if I can get a set vs him recorded on Thanksgiving (Canadian Thanksgiving) and post+analyse my own match. See if that helps me describe what I think about Falco vs Luigi. Last time we played was a high % last stock set type of thing, so hopefully that stays relatively ok. That was months ago and I've been maining Falcon since, but it shouldn't be hard to get back. :D
I'll do the same with the other couple Falcos if they show up. Only the good ones though.

nah smart guy. The reason I posted it is as obvious as your David spade 1993 sarcasm. I even typed it out.

Very detailed sarcasm description. I likey.

 

[Lib3r4t3]

Baaammesy poo always beats the local sheik.

 

[Bamesy]

Cuz it don ftilt n afraidz uv nethang :D
When it lurns tilts tho Iz be scurred D:

 

[Winston]

I don't think ftilt ***** Luigi that bad, Luigi can just cc downsmash and if Sheik wants Sheik can cc that into something and it can turn into a dumb CC war which Luigi will win eventually.

Smart use of aerials, platforms, and grabbing is pretty hard to deal with though =(

 

[ChivalRuse]

Because it's funny how he has sheik is luigi's worst match-up. You can combo the hell out of sheik.

Clearly Luigi's worse Match is by Far Mario.

His Second worst is Zelda. You can't stop the power of the Fair/Bair.

This post is disappointing. I guess not everybody takes this game seriously.

 

[Blea Gelo]

This post is disappointing. I guess not everybody takes this game seriously.

he said this post wasjking dude >.<

 

[Wenbobular]

Fooled me pretty good
~_~

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'm more disappointed by the fact that Spam_Arrows is trying to tell Luigi mains stuff about their character.

 

[wowremy]

<ground up luigi

 

[Bamesy]

^good stuff man

< got another
Though I've skipped around a bit lately, the roots are still there.



Shieks tilts hurt at higher % and easy to get him out of the general area or catch him when he is.
The 'local shiek not using tilts' thing is just referencing that EVERY is good against my Luigi, but I can abuse those 'tilt' areas too much for my own good.

Hence when I fight a Shiek who does the 'tilt' part, even missing other parts, I don't know how I'll fare against it.
I'll be getting some quality good practice for a while with a GREAT Shiek soon though. I'm excited.

 

[Vist]

Fox:
40-60 / 45-55

Noteworthy Luigi experiences:

Ka-master- I haven't seen this guy lose a set to any fox other than Silent Wolf. Here's a list of sets he had within the past few years outside of Washington tournaments:

Pound 4 R1 Pools (1/16/10)- Tag 2-0, Taki 2-0
Pound 4 R2 Pools (1/16/10)- Zgetto 2-1
Pound 4 R3 Pools (1/16/10)- Jwolf ? 2-0
Pound 4 Singles Bracket (1/16/10)- SwiftBass 2-0
UCLA V (3/3/08)- Lucky 2-1​

Eddy Mexico- I don't know much about him, but I have heard of and seen some of his biggest tournament matches.

Genesis 2009 Bracket (7/12/09)- Colbol 2-1
UCSD Triweekly XXVII Bracket (~2/14/10)- Connor 0-2
Nice Shot Hugo Pools (3/27/10)- Lovage 2-0
Nice Shot Hugo Bracket (3/27/10)- Lucky 2-1
Grev8 Bracket (~5/31/10)- Alex19 2-1
GrevVII Bracket (8/28/10)- Alex19 2-0, Lucky 1-3
​

Vist - I'm pretty good at 'close but no cigar' sets with foxes lol. Too lazy to remember / figure out my fox experiences in between P4 and Apex but I have my fair share of wins/losses to local ppl.

Apex 2010 R1 Pools (8/6/10)- P.C. Chris 0-2
Apex 2010 R2 Pools (8/6/10)- Cactuar 0-2, Mofo 2-1, dashdancedan 2-0
Apex 2010 Bracket (8/6/10)- Tec0 1-2 (Tec0 went sheik 1st match), Lucky 1-2
Pound 4 R2 Pools (1/16/10)- Unknown522 0-2 (Unknown went Falco 2nd match), Apollo? 2-0
Pound 4 R3 Pools (1/16/10)- Cactuar 0-2
​

Pakman / Blea Gelo / Winston / Vudujin etc- I'm sure you guys probably know your own tournament results and stuff better than anyone else so I'll leave this part to you..

My 2 cents: I think Luigi has a somewhat difficult learning curve to get a hold of this matchup, but I believe it's relatively even when comparing two highly skilled players with familiarity in the matchup. Usually this isn't the case and the foxes tend to have less experience in the matchup than the luigis. Also, I mean 'relatively even' as in I don't believe it should go more than 40-60 in either direction when you're only considering people who know what they're doing.

I can't really agree with anyone saying fox ***** luigi when I think about how well Ka master plays this match-up. He may not be flawless, but I think his successes in the matchup show that Luigi can and should be able to keep up with Fox at the height of his metagame and that Luigi's metagame has not progressed beyond or even matched what Ka has been with respect to this matchup.



I'll post more later in regards to other matchups

 

[Winston]

Ka-master

Pound 4 R2 Pools (1/16/10)- Zgetto 2-1

Wow, I had no idea that happened. That's really amazing

UCLA V (3/3/10)- Lucky 2-1

didn't this happen in 08?

 

[Vist]

didn't this happen in 08?

yeah it did, typo madnessssss

 

[Bamesy]

He may not be flawless, but I think his successes in the matchup show that Luigi can and should be able to keep up with Fox at the height of his metagame and that Luigi's metagame has not progressed beyond or even matched what Ka has been with respect to this matchup.

Even Ka never came close to the potential of this match up (any match up). He was stuck at the top of Luigi metagame so long that he knew he couldn't go further until someone else took over, or even came around his ability in another area. Because he only had one point of view, he had nothing to learn off of but his own experiences, experiments and mind was all there was at the best of his (Luigis too) ability. (from an intimate convo we had the first time we met :/)

Just as Mango needed to stop taking melee seriously, he can't take this game further until others bring it passed him, maybe he can't at all as that's as far as he could take it. He opened MILLIONS of doors to how to play this game, OTHERS have to go through them to find the new doors. Ka was like this with Luigi. (still is)

Luigi could push the bottom of top tier, easily, if enough people got to a certain point and could collectively work together to get there. For Jiggs, Hbox worked off Mango, Mango worked off King, the line goes back. Hugs as the only Samus to make it as far as he did, Chu the only ICs, so on and so forth.

Nobody has really matched them since. With Samus, it probably won't happen as Hugs left and came back with a 'different' view, as he put it, but there really isn't enough to work with in Samus lol. For other untapped charaters, as Wobbles says these days, "if I could give what I know to another person, they could bring it further than me" (he just said this in the peach boards AGAIN actually lol) and yet he's the top ICs right NOW.


Point of this post ::
- There hasn't been anyone else to get that next 'mind' into Luigi, so it's stuck. We NEED that to move foward. Helping each other through things like match ups etc is needed.
A Match up chart isn't something that should be made for "People to read so they know what the match up is like"
It should be a developping chart that grows as we grow as players in the Match ups, that will make us collectively better.
- Garaunteed, NO character '*****' Luigi. Not even close. Not even Shiek, and she's the worst. lol
He has a difficult learning curve, rather, it's not like ANY character in this game. He's ridiculously stupid. (no angular movement, wack recovery, moves mainly by WD and slides from anything with lots of hard hitting priorityfull moves)
Naturally it would make sense that it would take long for him to develop, naturally not many players that already great with OTHER characters will gravitate to him, cause he's that silly.
- It's up to us.
We ****ing got this.

 

[Wenbobular]

Bottom of top tier? Sorry but that's stupidly optimistic.

You could maybe make an argument for Luigi being in mid tier, but I don't think you can make much of an argument for him being better than anyone currently in it.

 

[Pakman]

Yeah Bamsey, you used a lot of words in that post, but there wasn't a whole lot of content. The reason the Luigi metagame is slow has little to do with KA. It is slow because anyone who legitimately wants a chance to compete at highest level of this game is not going to pick Luigi. The pool of people playing Luigi is small and will always be small. The best new players are not going to play characters that are bad and expect to win. Luigi is Bad.

The Luigi mains are a special kind of people. As much as we want to win, we realize the challenges associated with our character, but we stick with him because he is hilarious, fun to play and not utterly useless.

 

[Bamesy]

Yeah Bamsey, you used a lot of words in that post, but there wasn't a whole lot of content.

The reason the Luigi metagame is slow has little to do with KA. It is slow because anyone who legitimately wants a chance to compete at highest level of this game is not going to pick Luigi. The pool of people playing Luigi is small and will always be small. The best new players are not going to play characters that are bad and expect to win. Luigi is Bad.

The Luigi mains are a special kind of people. As much as we want to win, we realize the challenges associated with our character, but we stick with him because he is hilarious, fun to play and not utterly useless.

Yeah I meantioned that lol
Who would pick a character with no metagame? (Mango picking Mario when he finally gets bored?)
Ka has nothing to do with it anymore, but it was a start before absense.
It'll be small always yes, just as we all have said, but I'm positive it's because he's bizarre, not bad.
If people "who legitimately wants a chance to compete at highest level of this game" did pick Luigi, it would be a different story.
He's soooo fun. <3
I will never believe Luigi is worse than Samus, Ganon, Doc, Pika or Mario, maybe not even ICs.
That's top of high tier/bottom of top. My 'optimism' will remain as t know it's not far from reality.



Tiz why I see it that way.
So how do you beat a good Peach? lol

 

[Blea Gelo]

peach sucks

 

[Bamesy]

So true.
I can't think of a way to get her when she's floating without completely committing to something.
I haven't played a good Peach in a long time personally, but I don't know what to do when that time comes.
Anyone know secrets?

 

[Winston]

I played Armada and got destroyed, besides that I haven't played good Peaches either.

To me it seems like Turnips are the main issue though. If she's floating without a turnip I feel like Luigi has the advantage in spacing.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Hit Peach when she tries to pull a turnip.

 

[Winston]

Right, that's the goal. She will find opportunities to pull turnips sometimes though.

 

[Blea Gelo]

i played armada, in two matches, i took him 3 stocks and 100 percent or more in both matches.
the match up it's not that hard. only that armada is good. nair in the match up is escential. more than what u think. also d/uthrows it's something that must be done. both of em are the first two principal things for me. it's hard for me to write in english, so ill think what im gonna say and write it down later on. lol

 

[Archangel]

I've seen good luigi's WD Ftilt Peach and get away with it over and over again. Even vs Armada!

someone wanna explain this?