Lucas General Discussion

[D e l t a]

I like default. Sometimes with X to footstool. For djc pkf I just do Y-Y-SideB.
Oh and I use Down taunt because with the OU charge the sparkles linger for a bit when Taunt canceling

I think they appear larger / brighter too. I could be mistaken tho. OU is my favorite, unique aspect about Lucas

How do you guys best deal with Luigi? I have someone I play against at my locals who plays Ike, Jigglypuff, and Luigi. I can beat all his other characters except Luigi. Any tips would be great!

Re-directing you to the MU discussion thread which is stickied in the forums. I'll try to give you tips tomorrow if I find time

 

[zen-bz-]

Here's mine that I find particularly useful.

= attack
= special
= shield
= attack
= taunt/footstool
= jump
= grab

I like R for attack cause I rarely use it and it's useful for DACUS'ing with Snake.

 

[zen-bz-]

Also, what do you guys think of nair? I personally like it quite a bit cause it seems similar to Wolf's and can even have used with magnet, but I'd like your opinions as well.
I use nair too much which is a very bad habit lol

 

[prem]

nair is amazing and should be spammed a lot anyway. deals with cc bettter than any other aerial and kills at those high percents when lucas cannot confirm as well off of dair. also leads into grab at lower percents

 

[Kipcom]

Dair is much better at dealing with CC than nair. It also beats out projectiles (depending on your placement) since it's not transcendent like nair.

 

[prem]

Well i more meant its better than fair and uair. also its harder to approach with dair cause no hitbox in front of you so I usually spam nair in neutral with fair and then use dair in combos.

 

[D e l t a]

Nair is amazing on shield and shield stabs easily with the grounded hotbox as well. It destroys shields super fast

Leads into combos and grabs at low %. At high % (above 90% or so), the final hit sends opponents at a nasty angle off-stage

Easy to cross-up opponents and has a long lasting hitbox. In the sense that you can go behind an opponent and bait out their CC move, it's better than Dair. Also has low end lag which is amazing. On cross-ups I go for turnaround magnet or Ftilt/Fsmash which is very safe many times.

If you watch any vids of me, you'll see me use Nair a lot since Fair feels so inadequate and often times the 5 frame lasting hitbox isn't enough.

 

[Kipcom]

Sometimes I wonder how amazing it'd be if Lucas' nair wasn't transcendent and could hit projectiles ala Mewtwo.

It'd probably be my favorite move if that actually came true. But yeah, can't argue with nair being better for crossups, especially when I do it a lot too.

 

[D e l t a]

Oh my god. A Mewtwo-esque Nair.... #KREY

 

[D e l t a]

Btw, Lucas doing a Dtilt crouches just underneath Sheik's Ftilt.

 

[LupinX]

I've been practising Lucas for a week and man is this character hard to use. You can have be so precise with strings and combos, but I'm starting to learn new things to innovate my Lucas.

1. How do you turnaround B without B reversing it? The momentum change kind of screws up my DJC spike.
2. How do you practice shield pressure in solo play?
3. What stages are very bad vs Lucas? Like the worst ones.

 

[prem]

I've been practising Lucas for a week and man is this character hard to use. You can have be so precise with strings and combos, but I'm starting to learn new things to innovate my Lucas.

1. How do you turnaround B without B reversing it? The momentum change kind of screws up my DJC spike.
2. How do you practice shield pressure in solo play?
3. What stages are very bad vs Lucas? Like the worst ones.

cant help with the bturn around thign cause i struggle with that too (well with falco never have had that problem with lucas). basically you just have to remember to press the opposite direction after you press down b, not before

uhh go to luigi's mansion, turn on debug mode, hit the bottom pillars with spaced mag fairs, double mags and all that until you can spam basically any variation you can think of.

I think stages that arent that long horizontally are his worst stages. so WW is awful, and so is fod. Ghz is kind of debatable but its my favorite stage in general so I cant say its awful. and then Dreamland and Delfinos are particualrly bad stages its just sometimes it gets super obnoxious to kill on those stages for me cause I'm not good at edge guarding with lucas so yeah

 

[LupinX]

cant help with the bturn around thign cause i struggle with that too (well with falco never have had that problem with lucas). basically you just have to remember to press the opposite direction after you press down b, not before

uhh go to luigi's mansion, turn on debug mode, hit the bottom pillars with spaced mag fairs, double mags and all that until you can spam basically any variation you can think of.

I think stages that arent that long horizontally are his worst stages. so WW is awful, and so is fod. Ghz is kind of debatable but its my favorite stage in general so I cant say its awful. and then Dreamland and Delfinos are particualrly bad stages its just sometimes it gets super obnoxious to kill on those stages for me cause I'm not good at edge guarding with lucas so yeah

It's funny because WW is one of my favourite stages. I can shark my opponents on platforms with u-smash and with a charge plus low ceiling, I get my kills muuuch faster. Ya I'll try the Luigi mansion practice thanks a lot

 

[prem]

I liek trying to go for unnecessarily flashy lucas combos which require lots of space so yeah WW sucks

 

[LupinX]

How do you go through disjoints (besides PKFr)? Cause it feels really risky and I get punished off that. Though the characters with disjoints are pretty comboable lol

 

[prem]

use lucas's obviously superior movement to bait and punish

 

[D e l t a]

Um.... yeah Lucas is hard AF to do well with. His inputs have to be precise and his playstyle is that of a perfectionist if I say so myself. Yeah you can get away with certain PKF and a few tech mistakes, but overall the character takes a lot of work. He's very rewarding however, as one punish can lead to very high %, ledge guards, and even stock kills.

I've been practicing him on and off since February 2014, don't feel bad if you aren't consistent or the best at him yet. The more I progress, the more I share with you guys to make it easier to get better in a faster, efficient manner.

==

1. B reverse / wavebounce / B turnaround

https://youtube.com/watch?v=R3UbHAq4Tk0#t=44m12s

This video describes the tech at the end really well. I time stamped the part that directly helps answer your question.

It's where I found out a lot of stuff that drastically improved my gameplay and further advances my knowledge of PM. Check out the full video if you want to, it's definitely worth 50mins of your time (and I don't say that lightly).

==

I wrote a post about shield pressure somewhere, but can't recall exactly where. Essentially there are a few methods and all of these are the best to practice with in my highly educated opinion.

The fastest to setup would be the starman method I list at the bottom, the one that allows you to continuously practice uninterrupted would be the first method, using a Bowser dummy. You barely have to reset the situation until Bowser is over 300% as opposed to constantly refreshing walls, shields, or items.

• With a 2nd controller:

This may include wiimotes (haven't tested yet), nunchucks, GameCube controllers, and whatever other variation you can think of that has an analog input for Smash.

Standard versus mode
1. Select Lucas (or any character you want to practice) and set the CPU to Bowser
2. Turn damage ratio to 0.5x and game mode to Timer. Feel free to set the timer to whatever you want here. Timer mode allows you to kill off Bowser and not have to reset the game due to running out of stocks / time.
3. Plug in the controller holding Up on the analog stick
4. Select the stage. There are two options: have your random stage select only on the stage(s) you want, or hold up on the 2nd controller then select stage with the 1st controller.
* I personally like Final Destination to practice on. You can move Bowser around freely with throws and platforms won't interfere at all.
5. Have fun practicing!

* Variation w/ 2nd controller:

Training mode:
Do the same process only now you select training mode with a crouching Bowser / Yoshi.

Have some way to press shield on the 2nd controller. Whether it be a friend, your feet, or a device.

You can't change damage ratio, but pausing resets damage to 0 and you can change game speed to 2x in order to refresh the shield.

Yoshi's shield never gets shield stabbed which is perfect to practice on. If the shield breaks, simply jab him and their shield will begin replenishing.

• Without a 2nd controller

Training mode:

Easiest to setup: Shadow Moses Island.
Practice on the walls and use the 2x to make them regenerate if they break.

Still practical: FD + standing still CPU character
Use the Mario Bros. Star powerup item under the pause menu. Hit lag works the same. The CPU will never mode anywhere and it's easy to repeat. Best for practicing on any character size.

 

[D e l t a]

Check the other thread in the boards regarding his good / bad stages. I'll make a post there

 

[prem]

But why wouldnt you use luigi's mansion because the lower level pillars will physically never break as long as the respective higher level pillar isn't broken

 

[D e l t a]

But why wouldnt you use luigi's mansion because the lower level pillars will physically never break as long as the respective higher level pillar isn't broken

#TheMoreYouKnow

Honestly, I never used any other method than Bowser dummy / Star items lol. Good to know for the future, thanks!

 

[LupinX]

Do you guys have a Skype group discussing Lucas meta? If so I would like to join :D

 

[D e l t a]

There was some talks of it. That's as far as I know other than everyone posting their skype names lol.

I've offered to help people but only one person has ever skyped me....The offer still stands to anybody.Message me on here and we can discuss anything about Lucas or general smash stuff

 

[ilysm]

But why wouldnt you use luigi's mansion because the lower level pillars will physically never break as long as the respective higher level pillar isn't broken

Now this is the kind of innovation I like to SEE from this community! ^_^

 

[prem]

Id honestly still would rather see infinite shield because it lets all characters practice late aerial to something and its really annoying when you have 2 people testing it and when you mess up you have to wait like 10 seconds for shield to regen, which is more obnoxious than youd think because its every time.

still its better than nothing and lets you practice all variations of shield pressure and with debug mode you can see exactly how far you can space your fair and stuff for the hitboxes to happen

 

[D e l t a]

I'm glad we at least have access to debug mode. I'd be so behind on developing his meta if it weren't for that (ie. Frame perfect shield pressure & ledge options).

 

[LupinX]

Do you guys know the ROB matchup? I have trouble getting in on ROB when I play him. Those boosters though

 

[D e l t a]

Kip was giving me some ideas in the stickied MU thread. Check those out and let me know what you think after that

 

[Kipcom]

Did I do gud guys

 

[zen-bz-]

Did I do gud guys

You did k

 

[Kipcom]

ayy



(filler content to bypass the 10 character post limit)

 

[zen-bz-]

>be me
>fighting a friend on Netplay
>I'm Lucas, he's Ganon
>both have 1 stock
>he's at ~100%
>we have a staredown on Smashville
>he's center stage, I'm near the ledge
>I charge my PKOU
>he taunts
>I taunt back and wait for him to taunt
>he takes the bait
>nowsmychance.png
>I don't taunt
>instead I DACUS and kill him
>friend's salt rises to unhealthy levels

I love this game

 

[D e l t a]

Any DACUS / OU Upsmash kill is scientifically proven to raise NaCL levels by at least 30%. In some cases, players have been reported as reaching over an 80% increase in saltiness!!

 

[Kipcom]

I got to play IPK's Fox and Lucario this weekend.

I lost one game to his Fox the entire weekend and won like the other 2-3.

That man's Lucario is a legend, though. Every game (save for like 2 of them) out of like at least 10 matches were just insane neutral and then one of us getting the hit and going to town on the other. There was so much neutral game and poking that in most of our games, a stock wasn't taken on either side until like 2-3 minutes had passed. I think I love this MU (when it's played right, and both players are great at their character, at least).

Got to take a few games off of him while all the others (again, except for like 2 of them where I got 2 and 3 stocked lol) were basically a matter of who would get the next strong hit to get the kill. It became hard to kill each other because we both got to the point where we were too high of a percent to get actual followups.

Oh how I wish we played friendlies on the stream setup. I'm sure you guys would have lost your s*** lol.

He also said that I'm much better than Neon, both in general as a Lucas player and because of my performance of playing against his Lucario. Warms my heart tbh I love this game

 

[D e l t a]

I love that the top 5 of us or so (you, me, hyper, etc) all have creative punished and unique movement. I don't think any Lucas player has a similar playstyle despite our metagame being advanced based on similar ideas we discuss with each other

 

[D e l t a]

Also, it kills me inside when Lucas players (looking at you @HyperFlame) fall with Dair on shield, instead of Nair

 

[Kipcom]

It's a pretty good crossup tbh

But yeah doing it in front of shield is pretty bad. RIP

 

[D e l t a]

I was crying when I saw him do it against Ripple. I thought for sure he was gonna get punished, but Ripple was giving him so much respect that set

 

[zen-bz-]

I wish I could head to tournies more but I'm limited to Netplay only, which is pretty bad ;_;
I wanna actually try my Lucas against good people...

 

[zen-bz-]

Out of curiosity, is it possible to combo a DJC or SH PKF into DACUS (OU DACUS namely)? I think the startup of DACUS combined with the shorter range of PKF make it impossible but IDK for sure.

 

[prem]

sh pkf actually confirms into dacus like almost always if you know for sure freeze will hit but you have to start the dacus before the freeze hits so you have to react by watching what they are doing right before the freeze hits them.

and yes you can djc uair or djc fair into dacus on people. just depends on percents and weights