Lucas General Discussion

[NeonApophis]

A Brawl player developing a good Lucas would be super interesting.

 

[Banjodorf]

So! As an up-and-coming Lucas main, I was wondering if anyone could give me the pro's and con's of his dtilt. Unlike the other two, I just can't seem to find a use for it anywhere, because it isn't spammable and just doesn't do a whole lot of anything.

Or have I been missing something here?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Dtilt is kinda weird. To be honest, while not entirely bad, it just won't get used a lot. DTilt's best feature is setting up kills (Grab, Smash attacks) and starting combos at mid-high percents. Before that IT SHOULDN'T GET USED.

Yeah, I don't think I've really incorporated it into my game, but sometimes I just use it, it's something that has a niche purpose in battle that'll become more apparent (like second nature) the more you play Lucas.

 

[Yashichi]

I sometimes like to throw a DTilt out at low-mid percents against characters with slower aerials. Very sparingly, of course. Just rarely enough to where they never see it coming. It's risky though, and I'm sure I could be using better moves to do the same job. Dash Attack and FAir pretty much cover everything in terms of setting up combos.

 

[Burnsy]

Dtilt is a very fast move, and its good for comboing and setups. The percentage your opponent is at should determine how you use it, if that makes sense.

 

[Yashichi]

Occasionally I get the situation where my jab combo knocks them off the stage at low percents. The DTilt will pop them up just enough to beat them up some more. It seems useful, but I definitely prefer to space my attacks by shooting some PK Ices and FAiring and NAiring everything. I'm still new to Lucas, so maybe there are some secret techniques I have yet to learn.

By the way, all of my friends keep calling alt costume Lucas "Nazi Lucas." It's very disheartening.

 

[NeonApophis]

Dtilt is good from about 50% to 70% because it keeps your opponent in grounded hitstun long enough to do another dtilt, but it doesn't cause knockback until higher percents, so you get a pretty free combo. I'm pretty sure it's possible to sdi during grounded hitstun, but it seems kind of hard to get out of this.

 

[Veishi336]

Dtilt has another good use. Anyone magnets after hitting an opponent with dtilt at a low percent.? It is kinda like an unexpected poke

 

[Yashichi]

I never thought about that. The only times I ever used magnet was when my approaches were becoming predictable and I had to throw them off somehow. It never occurred to me that it could be used like that. That's clever.

 

[Veishi336]

yepyep lol i do that or i just slam a Ftilt in their face after the Dtilt. That Ftilt's speed is sweet

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Magnet's important for shield pressure and mixing up combos as well as giving you mobility in tandem with an attacking option. It's real important you use it.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

I'll be the best in a month >_<

 

[Burnsy]

Haha

10multimagnetfairshieldbreaks

 

[jtm94]

I've been using Lucas and his magnet is amazing. I never realized how mobile he is during it and how fast/useful it is. Since you can b reverse it that in itself opens up movement and approach options. I like how it shoots out behind him so I can run and reverse it to send them off the edge where I can get a dair.

 

[MeekSpeedy]

I'll be the best in a month >_<

u suk gotem

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

oof hella got me

 

[otter]

So I'm trying to figure out how to DJC, and it seems like you jump with x/y, then tap double jump with the control stick, which gives your right thumb time to aerial with the c stick. Is that the right idea?

 

[Burnsy]

Yes, that's the easiest way to do it quickly and accurately enough for most people.

 

[Lukingordex]

I don't like Tap Jump and I just press b quickly with my Classic Pro to DJC,it works well with me,but I think it's a harder way to do this.

 

[Burnsy]

Agreed, do-able but more difficult. One of the reasons I like the tap DJ method is that it makes perfectly low fairs easy.

 

[otter]

My thumb definately can't do that lol. I don't like tap jump either but the alternating 3 step method seems doable. It's pretty silly though coming from arcade stick games where you have a finger for each button.

 

[Burnsy]

I come from the same background, I thought it didn't take me long to adjust.

 

[HammerTime]

kinda annoying how lucas is the only character where the tap jumping for DJC is almost mandatory. With other DJC capable characters its a lot easier to do the jump with X/Y and then do the aerial with the c stick or A button. I play Ness sometimes and with him i usually to the double jump cancelling with X or Y

 

[Kally Wally]

[collapse=My method for DJCing]

[/collapse]

 

[Yashichi]

disgusting

 

[Eisen]

So I'm super happy with how Lucas flows in 3.0

Wavedashing feels like running on oily tile now, it's so smooth. And dealing with shields is a lot easier just from a minor fix. I do feel a bit like they toned magnet down a little too much. I can hardly get near-shield-breaks anymore, though I guess it's not really necessary to do what Lucas does best. I guess I don't know for sure if it's right or not, but Lucas is still really good either way.

 

[EIiitti]

I personally do basic SHUFFL stuff with B-jump. DJC Fairs I do with Double-Y -jump to A-attack + direction. DJC Uairs I do with Double-B -jump to A-attack + direction. Yea, I'm weird like that.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

So I'm super happy with how Lucas flows in 3.0

Wavedashing feels like running on oily tile now, it's so smooth. And dealing with shields is a lot easier just from a minor fix. I do feel a bit like they toned magnet down a little too much. I can hardly get near-shield-breaks anymore, though I guess it's not really necessary to do what Lucas does best. I guess I don't know for sure if it's right or not, but Lucas is still really good either way.

I experienced just how less shield damage it did on its own the other night. We as Lucas players have to develop a strong shield pressure game that involves more than just holding magnet on determined players.

Also, OU USmash on shields is hilarious if you haven't hit any yet.

EDIT: C'mon guys, I use Y for all my DJCs, get faster fingers pls

 

[Burnsy]

We as Lucas players have to develop a strong shield pressure game that involves more than just holding magnet on determined players.

EDIT: C'mon guys, I use Y for all my DJCs, get faster fingers pls

This is basically how I feel about the magnet "Nerf". It was more like removing a unnecessary but silly part of his game. It just forces players to learn real shield pressure with Lucas.

Post a video of you consistently doing perfectly low approaching/retreating djc fairs and multimagnet>djc fairs using that method, I dair you.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I can do approaching and Multimagnet just fine, I don't ever really do retreating Fairs

Also, even if I did, I'm pretty sure no one here that uses a different method can do any of that consistently AND post a video of it, haha

 

[Burnsy]

I just question how low people who claim to use double tapping the same jump button are able to go consistently. I think a lot of people don't realize how big a difference being 4 or 5 frames late on a perfect djc fair can make for whether the pressure is successful or leads to Lucas getting punished big time. An exception would be alternate methods involving claw or well-designed button layouts.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Yeah I getcha. I only can do stuff fast because I mash for speedrun **** and need it for double jump lands as Peach/Yoshi.

The faster fingers part was just me being silly, but I'm fairly confident in my DJCs and I hate tap jump, so I've just gotten used to Y, Y, A, L

 

[Naughty Pixel]

Yeah I double tap x to djc and I'm pretty sure it's very low to the ground.

I had a pretty decent time at a tournament this weekend. I kept it pretty close in a set tope, a skilled melee veteran. Came in 7th, hopefully next time I can put up even better results

 

[Burnsy]

Oh I forgot to mention, I took 1st in teams and 3rd out of 13 competitors in singles at our most recent bi-weekly. I went mostly Squirtle in teams, but had to switch to Lucas to be able to handle Metaknight/Wario in grand finals. Singles I went mostly Lucas, but used Squirtle to facilitate the Falco MU.

 

[Sizzlorr217]

The struggle of performing the DJC PKF so fast that Lucas just DJC without any ice fired and without any lag upon landing on the ground.
Kinda like Double Jumping with Peach really fast.

 

[Burnsy]

Yea, only aerials can be done that low since they start faster. DJC pkf you just need muscle memory for the timing, due to the forced delay and semi-strict timing with hitting B. Just make sure you include it in all of your techskill warm-up/practice (many Fox/Falco mains do this as well)

 

[Dron]

so here's a question, I know they nerfed the shield damage of magnet's repeating hits, but is the initial hit's shield damage still the same? i.e. are multimagnets still a viable method of shield pressure?

 

[HammerTime]

I sort of suspected that the repeating hitbox was going to get nerfed. In 2.6 I almost never used the repeating hitbox of down B and I was still able to break several shields at my monthlies with normal DJC pressuring, so it is possible. It's tought as hell to do but I'm sure we'll all learn the tricks to doing proper DJC shield pressure over time.

 

[NeonApophis]

Yeah, I'm not sure I ever broke a shield just from holding the magnet. Most people realize that their shield is about to break and will drop it or try to roll before it actually breaks. The main use was just as a mixup, since you could hold it instead of releasing immediately in order to prevent people from reading your pressure and thereby make it more difficult for them to escape. Grounded multi-magnet is better than holding it anyways, so I'm just going to start doing that more.

I talked to Calabrel about the exact changes, and here is my understanding of what he told me. Shield damage is normally calculated based on the move's damage. In 2.6b the shields could take 50% of damage before breaking, and 3.0 apparently changed that to 70% if Calabrel remembers correctly (obviously shields also decay at some constant rate while they are out, so in practice shields will break earlier than they would just based on damage). Aside from the decreased refresh rate of the repeating hitbox, the only change was to the shield damage of the repeating hitbox. In 2.6b the repeating hitbox had an extra 5% shield damage in addition to the 2% it normally does. The change in 3.0 was just to remove the extra shield damage from the repeating hitbox, so it now does 2% shield damage per hit instead of 7%. The release hitbox still does 6% shield damage as it did in 2.6b, so releasing the magnet as soon as possible now does 8% shield damage (2+6) rather than 13% (7+6).

I'm pretty sure all of this is accurate, but if anyone has additional information or corrections those would be very helpful.

 

[Dron]

so would that mean that straight-up multimagnets are still worth implementing (as a mix-up at the very least) over things like magnet -> DJC'd fairs? I've been stepping up my on-shield multimagnet game considerably recently but I don't want to keep it up if there are more efficient options out there