Lucario's Traps and Brickwalls

[NESSBOUNDER]

Marth's D-tilt trap >>>>>>>> all Lucario's traps and brickwalls.

A hard dose of reality before NESSBOUNDER goes off into his land of happiness where Lucario is better then Marth.

Seriously every post you make about Lucario and Marth reeks of your opinion that Lucario is superior.

It's full of much lulz.

I like Timbers. He is logical.

Logic = win.

You're being way too defensive here EL. I'm not threatening at Marth at all. In fact, I specifically stated in my post that Marth's basic traps are more effective, didn't I?

Even so, Lucario has more of them, and is definitely better at brickwalling due to a combination of having an irritating projectile, lingering hitboxes and less lag on most of his attacks.

In fact I've never stated that Lucario > Marth like...ever. I've always considered Marth a rather broken character before I started looking into his unsafe attacks and short hitboxes. Now I simply consider him a great character.

I still personally believe that Lucario and Marth have similar traits and can compete with each other on a more or less equal plane. You might not like to think so, but much of Marth's spacing and zoning game can also be applied in a similar way to Lucario.

Lucario is safer all around to use, and you don't have to be so precise when playing him compared to Marth. Longer hit boxes mean more to work with when it comes to luring opponents into traps. He has a much faster roll and the ability to put a weak hitbox between him and the opponent with ease on a horizontal plane.

But I am always prepared to acknowledge that Marth can just walk up to someone at any time and go "PFFPTH" and kill him dead with a tippered Fsmash. This is something Lucario can't do so easily. Lucario has to work harder for his KOs.

So yeah, I've never said that Lucario is better than Marth. I think he's equal or only slightly behind. Don't be so touchy.

And the lag at the end of Marth's Dtilt is about the same as the lag at the end of Lucario's Ftilt, if not just a few frames faster. Ftilt hits twice, preventing powershielding and has a higher hitbox, doesn't start as fast, not as much range, yadda yadda yadda. Marth's is better, but not by >>>>>> much.

And at least when I have an opinion about something I actually go and test it thoroughly or back it up with frame data and such so that I'm not just swiping at thin air. Honestly, I've tested Marth's Dtilt trap too, you know. This is why I'm even bothering to compare it with Lucario's ftilt trap. It's a model and Lucario gets quite close to said model.

 

[Timbers]

And Timbers: have you tried using Aurasphere, Fsmash, Ftilt and Utilt in quick succession? More often than not, this combination of moves will have your opponent rolling all over the place and into your lingering hitboxes. Lucario's moves can support him just as well as Marth's can. Marth can't even use Ftilt because it's horribly unsafe on block.

And Ftilt can often combo into a force palm grab just so you know. Or a running attack. Both these are pretty good.

Marth may be able to swing his sword around to protect himself, but the key problem with Marth's brickwalling game is that each of his hitboxes only stay out for a very short amount of time. Lucario's hitboxes linger, actually diminishing the amount of lag he has in between attacks. Blow for blow, Lucario's attacks are actually much safer on block and when used in combination, are a lot harder to get through.

Lucario's Ftilt is much better than you're giving it credit for. You used Mr. Game and Watch as an example right? Lucario's Ftilt can trade hits with his fishbowl if you angle it upwards slightly. This move has hardly any ending lag, making it very hard to punish, ESPECIALLY since it double-hits and pushes back quite far, which is excellent on block and prevents powershielding.

And also, the hitbox is huge.

Lucario also has an excellent jab to work with. Marth uses his dancing blade in place of a jab, but said attack is unsafe on block, whereas Lucario has plenty of grab mixups that he can do from a jab cancel.

-I have, but I always considered this to be part of aurasphere's or fsmash's brickwall/trap attributes, not ftilt. I guess everyone can look at it differently. You can seriously do anything with aurasphere or fsmash, save for utilt, usmash, dsmash, jabs. I never felt that ftilt alone could set this up, whereas fsmash and aurasphere are fully capable. It's just how I see it, I'm not saying you're wrong in any way.

-Lucario's brickwalls and/or traps are vastly different in how they're executed than Marth's. That's why I don't see the potential in using a much inferior version to Marth's dtilt trap, when we have our own superior ones with, say, aurasphere.

Marth's D-tilt trap >>>>>>>> all Lucario's traps and brickwalls.

A hard dose of reality before NESSBOUNDER goes off into his land of happiness where Lucario is better then Marth.

Seriously every post you make about Lucario and Marth reeks of your opinion that Lucario is superior.

It's full of much lulz.

I like Timbers. He is logical.

Logic = win.

>>; lol

It'd be hard to compare the two, really. Lucario's setup is very different than Marth's. Now if we're comparing melee setups, then clearly Marth is in a favorable position. By a pretty large margin. Aurasphere is just necessary for Lucario to make use of brickwalls.

And I do agree with what you said earlier, Lucario is much more set on brickwalls than he is traps. He has not the speed or general makeup to be able to successfully punish a character that Marth or MK would.

Which is fine. He's a naturally defensive character, no matter what anyone says.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Even so, while the traps that Lucario shares with Marth don't work as well as Marth's versions, they still WORK. And we can't just rely on Aurasphere because a character who has a disjointed jab can just stop them dead unless they're running, which is why the ftilt and fsmash traps really are so important.

Another great one while I'm at it: shorthopped Fair to Dtilt. If the initial attack is blocked, Dtilt takes a chunk off their shield, then Lucario either uses Nair to land ssfely, or double jumps away from danger.

I'm also looking into a ledge grab trap involving a running up smash. Omnomnom.

 

[Browny]

Even so, while the traps that Lucario shares with Marth don't work as well as Marth's versions, they still WORK. And we can't just rely on Aurasphere because a character who has a disjointed jab can just stop them dead unless they're running, which is why the ftilt and fsmash traps really are so important.

Another great one while I'm at it: shorthopped Fair to Dtilt. If the initial attack is blocked, Dtilt takes a chunk off their shield, then Lucario either uses Nair to land ssfely, or double jumps away from danger.

I'm also looking into a ledge grab trap involving a running up smash. Omnomnom.

thats the best trick ever, i use it all the time. considering everyone can spotdodge-fsmash ledge get up attacks, so often people i play will jump instead, and theres no dodging the upsmash. or you can simply fsmash them as they jump/attack up and still be a safe range away lol. lucarios fsmash is too good

 

[Emblem Lord]

Less traps more walls plz.

Also...rofl. Starting drama is fun.

Silly Lucario boards.

I'm fuxing with you guys.

Why so serious?

*eats popcorn

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Why ARE we so serious? We're the freakin' LUCARIO boards!

*eats bacon :D

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

You Guys Need To Chill The **** Out

 

[Zero_Gamer]

You Guys Need To Chill The **** Out

But... my bacon...
10chars

 

[Trela]

Nice thread NESS! Im goin' to make up my own little traps to use =P

*eats frozen waffle*

 

[Timbers]

Even so, while the traps that Lucario shares with Marth don't work as well as Marth's versions, they still WORK. And we can't just rely on Aurasphere because a character who has a disjointed jab can just stop them dead unless they're running, which is why the ftilt and fsmash traps really are so important.

Another great one while I'm at it: shorthopped Fair to Dtilt. If the initial attack is blocked, Dtilt takes a chunk off their shield, then Lucario either uses Nair to land ssfely, or double jumps away from danger.

I'm also looking into a ledge grab trap involving a running up smash. Omnomnom.

Well, I mentioned aurasphere and fsmash already lol. Ftilt I already accepted your opinion on it, as it does on it's own I suppose.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Oh you! >_<

*in Terry Bogart voice* GET SIRRIOUS!

Anyway, I'll start on the walls after I've played around more.

 

[Peregrinus Falconidae]

Interesting, I'll have to test this now.

 

[Lethe]

wow, yeah. brickwalling IS lucario, so this thread is really important.

i tend to use the hitbox on fsmash as a sort of shield against basic approaches. ftilt is my trap, i like to walk up and chase people around the stage with it. throw in some a combos and AS, pay attention to how the other guy reacts, and you can rack up so much damage.

dtilt i actually find useful. it stops rolls in my experience, its fast and gets them away from you, in the direction im facing... so its good if i feel close range pressure coming on, and want to stand my ground... sort of the point of brickwalling, yes?

i will say this, i think AS is the cornerstone of lucario's brickwall/trap game. i get like half my kills with AS. it's so good at limiting the other guy's options, particularly when charged... like, i recall some guy in the good habits thread mentioned throwing a full AS whenever the opponent rolls backward. i sort of wish there was a thread just for AS tips, lol.