Lucario's recovery......too good?

[MM720]

Heya there. I'm not a Lucario main myself (in SSB4 at least), but I've played him alot and played against several pro Lucarios.

One thing I've noticed besides the increased Kill Power (dying to f-smash at 60% isn't cool) is his absurdly broken recovery. That guy is IMPOSSIBLE to edgeguard/gimp and you're basically forced to get Star/Screen KOs (or knock him so much that he can't recovery in any way).

For some characters, they rely on edgeguarding and small combo attacks more, but Lucario is a nightmare. It's not really fun when you're forced to play heavyw

Sweetspot dair spike/meteor that would kill anyone else? NOPE! Lucario comes back

Knocking him so far off the screen boundaries (but not KOing him) that most other characters wouldn't even manage to get back on-screen? NOPE! Lucario comes back (doesn't even need to grab the Ledge....)


I knew his recovery was buffed, but this is...too much. It's fast, reliable, controllable, unpredictable AND it can even kill you if you hit them at the end. Getting really early gimps seem to be the only way to somehow counter it, but those aren't very effective and unless you spike/meteor, Lucario can probably recover anyway.

Of all the matches I've played against and with Lucario, I've NEVER seen someone die because they failed to recover back on-stage. Sure there are other great recoveries like Pit's, Kirby's, Villager's and so, but they are much slower and/or predictable....

Soo what do you skilled Lucario mains think? Do you admit that it is indeed overpowered or do you consider it balanced? Not blaming you guys or anything

 

[Neverbound]

People complain bout balance when this is the most balanced smash game

 

[SyncNatsyu]

I don't think Luc's recovery is too good. It definitely is good but punishable. I treat it as an attack like say, fox's side-b. As such its better to wait it out and punish it as it starts using it's start-up to position yourself. If they think they can go through you and past you, time a SH aerial. If they go for center stage and you're there, sheild it and punish the landing lag. If they go up they are in freefall. You got hit by it? at low percents its not much and at higher percents you get launched but can still recover before they get to you.

Off-stage is riskier since you can end up being the one recovering while luc gets the ledge freely but it is much more predictable ecspecially if they are below and off-stage.

I play jiggs and pika if you need some reference.

 

[Pitbuller26]

In my opinion since the opening post rubbed me the wrong way so badly: Get over it and play better. Here's a hint, nearly all characters can recover better in Smash 4. Learn matchups and stop *****ing about Lucario.

 

[|RK|]

Just from my experiences (and I'm not really good, so take this with some salt), Lucario does have an incredible recovery, but it can be intercepted/predicted. I've gotten pretty good with understanding exactly the range I need in order to hit with it, but that can often cause some landing lag that has put me directly in the firing line of a grab or something else. Other good players have been able to intercept my flight with a smash attack and kill me immediately. I dunno. What I'm saying is that there are way around it, but I'm not quite sure if it's too much or not.

 

[Tyril132]

I'm not a "pro lucario", but I have made a few observations that you might find helpful.

Sweetspot dair spike/meteor that would kill anyone else? NOPE! Lucario comes back [...] I knew his recovery was buffed, but this is...too much. It's fast, reliable, controllable, unpredictable AND it can even kill you if you hit them at the end.

It's true that if you just throw or knock him off the stage, he's going to recover. Extreme Speed has excellent range that scales with his %... but it's also not as safe of an option as you suggest. A good Lucario player can curve to hit a ledge from off-camera, but doing so usually means taking a predictable trajectory to do it. Pulling a "U-curve" to hit a narrow target when you don't have a visual reference point is extremely difficult, but if your opponent is very experienced they might be able to do it consistently. Also, the hitbox for the attack on Extreme Speed occurs only at the end. These are things that you can use to your advantage...

Lucario does have an incredible recovery, but it can be intercepted/predicted. [...] good players have been able to intercept my flight with a smash attack and kill me immediately.

...By doing this. When Lucario's knocked far enough off the stage for it to matter, he usually has to take a fairly predictable route to get back to the platform or ledge. He's very vulnerable to being gimped or intercepted if you successfully read it. A well-timed spike, meteor or U-Smash will ruin his day, and some characters can also catch him as he's reaching for the ledge.

There are two other things I'd say to watch out for, though. A good Lucario might read that you're going to try and intercept him and curve around the attack. Usually, if he does this, he's going to aim for the platform rather than the edge; if you can bait this out, you can punish him for it. The other thing is to watch out for stages with flat pillars (like omega Tamadachi Life, Garudo Valley, etc.) Lucario's wall-cling gives him a lot of extra offensive options for recovery and you need to watch for him trying to stick to the side of the stage and then approach with an aerial.

 

[Steam]

throw out any lingering hitbox. it will beat out extremespeed.

 

[Jaxas]

throw out any lingering hitbox. it will beat out extremespeed.

Can I be the first to say that I hate Rosalina's Nair while I'm trying to recover?
Almost as much as I hate that technique where you desync Luma to where she's right in front of the ledge and spamming Dtilt (keeps Luma in place, Luma's Dtilt spikes).

Anyways, if you can keep Lucario from going to the ledge then ES has some pretty long recovery when you land, so you can punish that as well.

 

[Steam]

Can I be the first to say that I hate Rosalina's Nair while I'm trying to recover?
Almost as much as I hate that technique where you desync Luma to where she's right in front of the ledge and spamming Dtilt (keeps Luma in place, Luma's Dtilt spikes).

Anyways, if you can keep Lucario from going to the ledge then ES has some pretty long recovery when you land, so you can punish that as well.

Rosalina's nair with luma beats lucario's entire moveset and it's almost impossible for him to punish.

 

[ReRaze]

This is why my first priority when fighting Rosalina is to kill luma. Also because its so bloody fun to kill that little thing xD

 

[SyncNatsyu]

This is why my first priority when fighting Rosalina is to kill luma. Also because its so bloody fun to kill that little thing xD

Though going too far out of your way to get luma will give rosa time to recover or launch you.

 

[RT]

Well now that his UpB1 has hilarious amounts of cooldown after landing from freefall, people can stop complaining.

 

[Masonomace]

Well now that his UpB1 has hilarious amounts of cooldown after landing from freefall, people can stop complaining.

I can still see people complaining if Lucario players smoothen their UpB's landing with some circle pad / control stick guiding just before landing on the ground to avoid the 5 days worth of cooldown.