Lucario's Frame Data [Deleted]

[Nysyr]

Sorry you don't trust raw game data then.

It must be a hard life being that ignorant.

Considering that we don't have hitbox or AC window data from the game files decoded yet, I'll trust my doubt until said files are decoded and video evidence showing otherwise is presented. If we do, why are they not yet publicly posted (no, the mastercore dumps do not contain these).

Thanks.

Edit: Basically what I'm saying is that although the routine is referred to in the frame data files, the actual hitboxes themselves may be bugged and not created. I have never seen a sour spotted UAir or BAir.

 

[BJN39]

Considering that we don't have hitbox or AC window data from the game files decoded yet, I'll trust my doubt until said files are decoded and video evidence showing otherwise is presented. If we do, why are they not yet publicly posted (no, the mastercore dumps do not contain these).

Thanks.

Edit: Basically what I'm saying is that although the routine is referred to in the frame data files, the actual hitboxes themselves may be bugged and not created. I have never seen a sour spotted UAir or BAir.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php?char=lucario&mode=view104

We've had his AC and hit-box data for months now.

Nothing besides jab iirc changed between 1.0.4 and 1.0.8. At least not the AC and hitbox data for his aerials.

I'm sorry you don't seem appreciate someone actually compiled this data into a readable format AND did the frame data for your character.

 

[Nysyr]

Cool, they we're updated without my knowledge, but from what I just looked at my point stil stands

From his site:

Attacks <snip> Autocancel

Bair <snip> 1-3, 40>

From the MC you linked:

06F - BairLanding[/SIZE]
#0xb28799a2
def game_6F():
pass

def gfx_6F():
InitExternalSubroutine_14E(0xBB31D589, )
End_196()

def sound_6F():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=2.000000, )
unk_180(0x45, 0x23, )
End_196()

def expression_6F():
unk_1D3(0x1, 0x4, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=17.000000, )
unk_1D3(0x6, 0x6, )
End_196()

Care to explain how these match up? There is also no mention of a 9 damage hitbox anywhere for Bair, while his site lists one.

 

[BJN39]

Cool, they we're updated without my knowledge, but from what I just looked at my point stil stands

From his site

From the MC you linked:

Care to explain how these match up? There is also no mention of a 9 damage hitbox anywhere for Bair, while his site lists one.

"BAirLanding" is actually irrelevant to BAir's AC data, oddly enough. The AC data for aerials is actually in the hit-box datas

def game_6A():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=4.000000, )
unk_170(0xD, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=16.000000, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=15.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x64, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x1E, Size=5.200000, Z=0.000000, Y=11.000000, X=-14.000000, 0x15, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x2, 0x16, 0x3, 0x1, 0x4, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x4, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, )
Hitbox_02D(ID=0x1, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=15.000000, Angle=0x169, KBG=0x64, WKB=0x0, BKB=0x1E, Size=3.000000, Z=0.000000, Y=11.000000, X=-9.000000, 0x15, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x2, 0x16, 0x3, 0x1, 0x4, 0x3F, 0x0, 0xF, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x4, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 11.000000, -6.000000, )
SynchronousTimer_20B(Frame=2.000000, )
Remove Hitbox_013(Id=0x0, )
unk_01E(0x0, 9.000000, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=20.000000, )
RemoveAllHitboxes_014()
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=40.000000, )
unk_16F(0xD, 0x2100, )
End_196()

The bold are the on-frame timings for the AC stop/start.

I've also highlighted one spot in green which is significant as the late hit-box initiator. They used a unique design which uses identical hit-boxes as previously used, (2 frames later) but switches the damage. So it has identical data to the early hitbox aside the damage.

 

[Nysyr]

So I went into training mode slowed down, and I still can't find the listed 9 damage hitbox (testing at 70%). The move does 9 damage at 0% so that may be how it slipped in there.

I did however find that BAir can be "frame cancelled." So that probably why I figured there was a different AC window.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Perhaps a late hit for bair doesn't exist? That would be interesting, perhaps I'll go have a look.

There's definitely a late hitbox for fsmash, I know that much.

Edit: Late uair also exists.

 

[BJN39]

Well the hitbox data claims the 9% hit appears 2 frames after the 15% hit. It also seems to remove only like...one of the two hitboxes, so maybe it's more of a. "Gray" sweet-spot system? It looks like it's more of that the outer strong hit gets replaced by the 9% hit, but the inner one stays powerful.

So like:

Frame 16-17
Inner : 15%
Outer : 15%

Frame 18-19
Inner : 15%
Outer : 9%

 

[Nysyr]

Posting this here as a reference.

06A - Bair
#0x6f900dbb
def game_6A():
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=4.000000, )
unk_170(0xD, 0x2100, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=16.000000, )
Hitbox_02B(ID=0x0, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=15.000000, ---
Hitbox_02D(ID=0x1, GID=0x0, Bone=0x0, Damage=15.000000, ---
SynchronousTimer_20B(Frame=2.000000, )
Remove Hitbox_013(Id=0x0, )
unk_01E(0x0, 9.000000, )
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=20.000000, )
RemoveAllHitboxes_014()
AsynchronousTimer_0D0(Frame=40.000000, )
unk_16F(0xD, 0x2100, )
End_196()

I see what appears to be the 9 damage value, but it doesn't look like it's a hitbox. This value is also present on Lucario's upsmash, with the same value.

Interestingly, Link has the same unk_01E present in 2 of his moves, however there is no remove hitbox or remove all hitboxes that exist in Lucario's moves.

They may have reference the wrong hitbox ID if this is supposed to actually change the damage value of a hitbox lol.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

LOL

THE GAME REMOVES THE HITBOX THAT IT CHANGES TO 9%

 

[BJN39]

So, SURPRISE! It was a case of development oversite?

Edit : Wouldn't that also mean that after 2F his BAir has far crappier range?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I guess? The first hex value is what I assume is the bone ID. But it removes that same ID on the same frame.

That explains why I was getting 15% hits only on frame 18.

The game doesn't remove the late hit from usmash though, so late usmash is still a thing. Late f-smash is still a thing. Late uair and the auto cancel frames are also still a thing.

Edit : Wouldn't that also mean that after 2F his BAir has far crappier range?

Yes, it does.

 

[Nysyr]

So I guess I'll admit my faults as lack of testing and dumb luck.

I find it curious how BAir was implemented, I assume they were treating it like Falco's Bair where it has strong hits at the start and then a late sour hit.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Link to Lucario's Complete Frame Data: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Lucario​

Would you happen to know if the autocancel landing lag is 0 or does it vary from move to move? If it is 0, then we can potentially cancel a few frames of hard landing lag with an autocanceled aerial since some autocancel on the first frame. Might be able to sneak a grab in then before the opponent could react...?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Auto-cancelling gives you whatever the hard landing lag value is.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

This guide has been removed and is no longer available.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

This guide has been removed and is no longer available.