Bread-Butterer
Smash Ace
I've replaced my initial post because it was emotionally charged, and was thus garnering responses of a similar nature.
I'm copying one of my later posts now that I think got to the point more succinctly and clearly.
In response to one of Vanguard's posts:
I think that Lucario is unbalanced by no fault of your own, but because he is very un-smash. When I say this, I mean he doesn't play by the previously established rules that other characters in smash games have followed. I know that he was designed with this in mind, so that's not an opinion. Based on the fact that he has his own unique set of rules that set him apart from every other character, it can be hard to tune him appropriately. There are simply a lot of variables that are hard to predict when considering the way his unorthodox playstyle will operate under different circumstances.
Having said this, I don't think he's far from being balanced. My friend Daniel is admittedly a strong player, and has taken to Lucario very well. It's incredibly overwhelming to play against him. When he gets in the flow of things once he's warmed up, his attack can be nearly unstoppable. This is where my concern comes into play that Lucario has such an intimidating pressure game that he doesn't need to focus much on his defensive game. I would compare his pressure, at times, to Falco's. I know, he can only cancel moves if he makes contact... but it's important for everyone here to note that characters make contact in this game quite regularly. The difference is that Falco has definite defensive weaknesses that can be exploited that go a ways towards balancing him. Lucario's recovery allows him to make it back from nearly anywhere. On top of this, his recovery is covered in hitboxes, and he can actually cancel out it. He can also recover a great distance while neutral-airing, which I find to be overboard. I realize that a concession has been made in that he can't wall cling anymore.
Before the 3.0 update, I told Daniel that I think if Lucario received 1 major nerf, or two minor nerfs, he would be a solid, balanced character who still has lots of upside.
My friends and I (who all agree he needed a nerf, including Daniel), decided that this nerf could be 1 or 2 of the following (indicated by numbers next to nerf suggested: (1/2)means that another nerf with the same number value needed for it to be adequate, (1) being the only nerf needed for it to be adequate):
- A recovery that doesn't deal damage (1/2)
- A recovery that he can't attack out of immediately (1/2)
-A shortened recovery (1)
- Alterations to his projectiles: Aura Sphere has less knockback, and Super Auro Sphere can also damage Lucario or lasts 1 second less (1)
- Making it substantially more difficult to fill his super meter (1)
- Removing forcepalm pyhysical damage if it is not sweet-spotted into a grab (1/2)
- Reducing range of his forward smash (1/2)
- Removing the ability to frame cancel his dash attack (1)
That's what comes to mind right now.
I was (obviously) distressed by the fact that he received 1 decent nerf that was accompanied by 3 major buffs after the 3.0 update. Daniel was equally baffled by this decision.
I think I've said all that I can on the matter. I hope you consider this. I strongly believe that in his current state, Lucario will climb his way to the top of the tier list as the metagame develops.
I'm copying one of my later posts now that I think got to the point more succinctly and clearly.
In response to one of Vanguard's posts:
I think that Lucario is unbalanced by no fault of your own, but because he is very un-smash. When I say this, I mean he doesn't play by the previously established rules that other characters in smash games have followed. I know that he was designed with this in mind, so that's not an opinion. Based on the fact that he has his own unique set of rules that set him apart from every other character, it can be hard to tune him appropriately. There are simply a lot of variables that are hard to predict when considering the way his unorthodox playstyle will operate under different circumstances.
Having said this, I don't think he's far from being balanced. My friend Daniel is admittedly a strong player, and has taken to Lucario very well. It's incredibly overwhelming to play against him. When he gets in the flow of things once he's warmed up, his attack can be nearly unstoppable. This is where my concern comes into play that Lucario has such an intimidating pressure game that he doesn't need to focus much on his defensive game. I would compare his pressure, at times, to Falco's. I know, he can only cancel moves if he makes contact... but it's important for everyone here to note that characters make contact in this game quite regularly. The difference is that Falco has definite defensive weaknesses that can be exploited that go a ways towards balancing him. Lucario's recovery allows him to make it back from nearly anywhere. On top of this, his recovery is covered in hitboxes, and he can actually cancel out it. He can also recover a great distance while neutral-airing, which I find to be overboard. I realize that a concession has been made in that he can't wall cling anymore.
Before the 3.0 update, I told Daniel that I think if Lucario received 1 major nerf, or two minor nerfs, he would be a solid, balanced character who still has lots of upside.
My friends and I (who all agree he needed a nerf, including Daniel), decided that this nerf could be 1 or 2 of the following (indicated by numbers next to nerf suggested: (1/2)means that another nerf with the same number value needed for it to be adequate, (1) being the only nerf needed for it to be adequate):
- A recovery that doesn't deal damage (1/2)
- A recovery that he can't attack out of immediately (1/2)
-A shortened recovery (1)
- Alterations to his projectiles: Aura Sphere has less knockback, and Super Auro Sphere can also damage Lucario or lasts 1 second less (1)
- Making it substantially more difficult to fill his super meter (1)
- Removing forcepalm pyhysical damage if it is not sweet-spotted into a grab (1/2)
- Reducing range of his forward smash (1/2)
- Removing the ability to frame cancel his dash attack (1)
That's what comes to mind right now.
I was (obviously) distressed by the fact that he received 1 decent nerf that was accompanied by 3 major buffs after the 3.0 update. Daniel was equally baffled by this decision.
I think I've said all that I can on the matter. I hope you consider this. I strongly believe that in his current state, Lucario will climb his way to the top of the tier list as the metagame develops.