Lucario and Friends discuss a tactical approach to: Snake

[phi1ny3]

Please read the rules if you aren't familiar with them yet by clicking here.
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[phi1ny3]

So yeah, I decided to go along with this anyways, because you gotta choose to move on sometimes. We should start by saying who we'd want to interview first, then possibly draft some thoughtful questions about the MU.

 

[XavantTheEnigma]

Huh? Your photobucket account has been inactive for 90 days =_=
Its been awhile, all i can say is up-tilt or w/e is dangerous for lucario @ 100...?

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh, it's not mine. I guess I'll have to upload the pictures to my own account next time.

 

[Trela]

Dang. I've yet to seen a good Lucario take down a good or pretty good Snake yet.

I wanna see who gets interviewed!

 

[phi1ny3]

^There was a video of Lee vs. Ally, but it got taken down, probably because of how old it was.

 

[Inspire]

I've er... Played Hall, JONT and DSF couple weeks ago.

 

[The_Bear735]

If the Snake isn't using nades well, play off it and out camp him. The only real counter Snake has in regards to AS camp and spamming is stopping it with well-timed nades.


but useless info aside, I prefer approaching with Fair > Nair. Getting a FP on a Snake at low percents is just deathly for the Snake, and SHDair is your best friend. The main problem with Snake is that playing a close combat game with Snake requires great OOS reflexes. His Ftilt and Utilt are easy to punish OOS once you learn the timing, but otherwise they will eat you alive.



inb4loluralive?

 

[phi1ny3]

So, who to interview, and what questions?

 

[RT]

Dang. I've yet to seen a good Lucario take down a good or pretty good Snake yet.

I wanna see who gets interviewed!

^This.

10char

 

[hichez50]

Is it possible to play snake offensivly while playing safe?

I find that many of my games vs. snake players last atleat 5:00min+ it just gets annoying.

 

[The_Bear735]

The nature of vs. Snake is out chess-mastering your opponent.


If you lose, just shout "I BOUGHT YOUR BOOK YOU MAGNIFICENT *******".

 

[Blood_Hawk]

Getting a FP on a Snake at low percents is just deathly for the Snake.

Wrong, Lucario's force palm at low percents is ineffective. Snake, can mash out of it as if it were a grab at low percents so you aren't going to get that off. When Snake is in FP chain grab damage range, he can break out quite easily. Don't try it.

His Ftilt and Utilt are easy to punish OOS once you learn the timing, but otherwise they will eat you alive.

Not quite. A well timed jab out of either of these tilts from Snake will beat out anything Lucario can throw out since those tilts both have like almost zero lag. You'll just get jabbed and f-tilted for the full damage. Better off getting away and resetting yourself. You NEVER want to be in close to Snake unless you are postive you can get a grab off, which is generally not a good idea unless he is landing or you think you can spare 20% of damage given to you for trying. Since Lucario's grab range is so small, better off leaving that be.


To beat a Snake you have to camp, camp, and never get in close. Mid range is optimal cause it's harder for Snake to set up grenades that way. Only juggle him when he's in the air. Making any grounded approach against a grounded Snake is suicide. It can be pretty even, but Lucario has the disadvantage in this match up due to Snakes redonkulous KO potential being able to nullify aura power quite easily if you aren't careful.

I find it the easiest to mess up his grenade cooking timing with BaS, then juggle him when one of those grenades happens to go boom in his face and pops him up. Other than that be very weary of C4 placement and random bairs while Snake descends. Don't hover above him when he's grounded either cause you'll get tilted. I know dair is tempting and cool but safety first. Other than that do what Lucario does best, but stay relatively campy at higher percents. Lower ones you can be more daring just don't get too crazy.

Recovering is going to be a pain, but Lucario players should be used to that by now.

Some things to note. Remember Snake's Nair can be DIed and punished with a dair. You can Fair his mortars, so don't be afraid to recover high. Don't be predictable and do the same recovery option repeatedly.

Good luck, you'll need it, this fight is a *****.

 

[The_Bear735]

Wrong, Lucario's force palm at low percents is ineffective. Snake, can mash out of it as if it were a grab at low percents so you aren't going to get that off. When Snake is in FP chain grab damage range, he can break out quite easily. Don't try it.

This is just off of personal experience. I've played a few local Snakes before, as well as many online Snakes, and FP has just proved beneficial for me. Even if they mash out, you can just followup SH Fair to Fair, which is the most common FP followup anyway. Snake's just worth noting on FP because he's so susceptible to it. Even mashing out can be difficult at early percents because of how heavy/slow + bulky he is. Getting him in the air is usually the best option with Snake, imo. I'm not saying that you can expect getting a chain on him (or a chain on anyone in general), but FP does have good followup options that Snake would be hard pressed to get away from at early <50 percents. Uthrow to nair is also nice as well, but it can be DI'd out of easier iirc.


wow this post has really bad organization.

 

[Blood_Hawk]

It was quite a challenge to read, but not too bad.

As for the force palm thing, I'm not saying it can't work, with Snake it's just better off not trying it too much due to being in close against Snake generally not being a smart investment. Whiffing a Force Palm or having it spot dodged just isn't worth the 20% IMO just to have it fail if the Snake knows Lucario can't get away with it. I was more speaking in terms of high level play, which is what everyone should be shooting for anyway when discussing match ups.

If it works for you casually, by all means keep using it. I just want the players that are aiming for higher to know that Force Palm, while it can have big pay off if you are lucky or facing an opponent who doesn't know it's attributes, can also lead to a big punish if they are in know. I myself actually use it more as a surprise KO move because players generally don't expect you to use it when they are at high percent and it does have surprisingly good KO potential when you are at a big enough percent.

 

[phi1ny3]

Okay, since I haven't been able to find possible interviewees that play v. Snake at a really high level (except maybe Lee or possibly June/Zucco if they have like Anti or Candy there, I completely forget where those guys are in that region), this could be a good tactical discussion among members on how to deal with snake, especially tricks that those who might not know Lucario could be used, or ones that they might use because it's easier than truly learning the MU and playing for options.

So some for example use spotdodging a lot, but Lucario imo is one of the worst characters to spotdodge against. Why? Well obviously for one lingering hitboxes, but the other reason is that Lucario has enough time to pull out a jab1 or utilt and use an ftilt or fsmash after a whiff sometimes to catch snake, which would normally not work if he was shielding your attack. That being said, spotdodge if read properly could be your saving grace if there isn't a grenade that he dropped.