phi1ny3
Not the Mama
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Someone!
RJ's convo w/ FlameWaveK about the Marth MU:
RJ Rawrr (2:50:24 PM): yo
FlameWaveK (2:52:31 PM): oh
FlameWaveK (2:52:34 PM): Hello
FlameWaveK (2:52:46 PM): Is this RJ from Smashboards RJ? :o
RJ Rawrr (2:52:53 PM): Who else
RJ Rawrr (2:52:53 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (2:53:00 PM): I'm not sure really
FlameWaveK (2:53:05 PM): I know someone named Rawr.
FlameWaveK (2:53:06 PM): so
RJ Rawrr (2:53:09 PM): mm
RJ Rawrr (2:53:12 PM): Anyway
RJ Rawrr (2:53:18 PM): what seems to be giving you an issue?
FlameWaveK (2:53:23 PM): Marth,
FlameWaveK (2:53:34 PM): Not the bad marths either
FlameWaveK (2:53:40 PM): The one that can actually space and read
FlameWaveK (2:53:42 PM): the bad ones
FlameWaveK (2:53:46 PM): just get ***** by fsmash
FlameWaveK (2:54:00 PM): Mike and Bardull make me so frustrated
FlameWaveK (2:54:20 PM): I get edgeguarded heavilly offstage and generally
FlameWaveK (2:54:29 PM): The difference in % is ussually drastic
RJ Rawrr (2:54:36 PM): lol
RJ Rawrr (2:54:40 PM): Takes time to get use too
RJ Rawrr (2:54:48 PM): Getting back on stage against marth isn't that hard
FlameWaveK (2:54:53 PM): really?
FlameWaveK (2:54:56 PM): it seems like quite the chore
RJ Rawrr (2:55:01 PM): People are just afraid to get to the edge
RJ Rawrr (2:55:14 PM): I can prob tell you what happens
RJ Rawrr (2:55:18 PM): Lets see here
RJ Rawrr (2:55:26 PM): The marth knocks you off stage
FlameWaveK (2:55:38 PM): mmhmm
RJ Rawrr (2:55:40 PM): then he prob jumps and just waits for your move
RJ Rawrr (2:55:44 PM): or
RJ Rawrr (2:55:47 PM): he waits on stage
RJ Rawrr (2:55:53 PM): and waits for you to come back
FlameWaveK (2:55:57 PM): onstage..
FlameWaveK (2:56:06 PM): well
FlameWaveK (2:56:14 PM): I kinda figured that airdodging into marth
FlameWaveK (2:56:16 PM): wasn't the best idea
FlameWaveK (2:56:52 PM): because I was getting forward smashed on landing and faired if I'm still airborne
RJ Rawrr (2:56:56 PM): You wouldnt happen to have any videos of you playing against them, would you?
FlameWaveK (2:57:01 PM): I wish
FlameWaveK (2:57:10 PM): Mike and Bardull don't like to recorded that much
RJ Rawrr (2:57:17 PM): Yea, I know that
FlameWaveK (2:57:25 PM): I might be able to sneak a replay on my TV next time
FlameWaveK (2:57:27 PM): bardull for sure
RJ Rawrr (2:57:27 PM): Even then, it's by your wishing as well
FlameWaveK (2:57:38 PM): he loves my wii only because it has music
FlameWaveK (2:57:48 PM): [and infinate replays]
RJ Rawrr (2:57:51 PM): Lets do this from my videos then
RJ Rawrr (2:58:01 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (2:58:05 PM): Okie
RJ Rawrr (2:58:06 PM): if you happen to save one to your wii
FlameWaveK (2:58:10 PM): I can record
RJ Rawrr (2:58:11 PM): you can prob send it to me
RJ Rawrr (2:58:14 PM): ahh
FlameWaveK (2:58:15 PM): I just put some matches up last night
FlameWaveK (2:58:17 PM): they're terrible
FlameWaveK (2:58:30 PM): I got ***** by peach and I forgot to save the rest
FlameWaveK (2:58:32 PM): but said peach
FlameWaveK (2:58:38 PM): haid so much lucario practice that day
FlameWaveK (2:58:40 PM): *had
FlameWaveK (2:58:45 PM): it wasn't even funny
FlameWaveK (2:59:02 PM): Stauffy in brackets twice + teams
FlameWaveK (2:59:27 PM): and plenty of friendlies VS inspire [the kid I brought over for his 1st tourney and placed the same as stauffy and beat a ranked player <3 so proud]
FlameWaveK (2:59:40 PM): but enough of getting off topic, you said we were gonna work off your videos>
FlameWaveK (2:59:40 PM): ?
RJ Rawrr (2:59:50 PM): Yepp
RJ Rawrr (2:59:51 PM): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7Z77v7GQc
RJ Rawrr (3:00:00 PM): before you start watching
RJ Rawrr (3:00:07 PM): I want you to keep this in mind
RJ Rawrr (3:00:11 PM): every time you play against marth
RJ Rawrr (3:00:16 PM): Marth's recovery is bad.
FlameWaveK (3:00:36 PM): hm
RJ Rawrr (3:00:42 PM): First off
FlameWaveK (3:00:45 PM): I know its absolutely terrible
FlameWaveK (3:00:48 PM): without the DJ
RJ Rawrr (3:00:57 PM): even then
RJ Rawrr (3:01:02 PM): I want you to
RJ Rawrr (3:01:03 PM): remember
RJ Rawrr (3:01:06 PM): how marth gets on stage
RJ Rawrr (3:01:10 PM): when you play against them
FlameWaveK (3:01:13 PM): recovers from below
FlameWaveK (3:01:17 PM): at least
RJ Rawrr (3:01:21 PM): Now
RJ Rawrr (3:01:24 PM): Keep this in mind
RJ Rawrr (3:01:29 PM): marth's ledge options
RJ Rawrr (3:01:33 PM): are 100% the wrose
RJ Rawrr (3:01:40 PM): To tell you the truth
RJ Rawrr (3:01:50 PM): You can harrass marth recovering
RJ Rawrr (3:01:53 PM): better then he can do it to you
FlameWaveK (3:02:11 PM): that makes a bit a sense to me..
FlameWaveK (3:02:42 PM): I'm was scared of chasing marth offstage since I Mike stagespiked me out of me trying to gimp him once that day.
FlameWaveK (3:02:46 PM): Inspire didn't give a ****
FlameWaveK (3:02:51 PM): and he aggro'd them whenever
RJ Rawrr (3:02:52 PM): Naa, don't chase him
RJ Rawrr (3:03:04 PM): all you really need to di is stage on stage
FlameWaveK (3:03:05 PM): He only got one stocked and I got 2 stocked :<
RJ Rawrr (3:03:08 PM): and never spam anything
RJ Rawrr (3:03:19 PM): Just wait for him to do something
FlameWaveK (3:03:21 PM): Don't be readable and just DI well?
RJ Rawrr (3:03:22 PM): From this point
RJ Rawrr (3:03:35 PM): I want you to look how marth uses his options from the ledge
RJ Rawrr (3:03:43 PM): Each one of his options
RJ Rawrr (3:03:51 PM): has a different animation
RJ Rawrr (3:04:02 PM): You can litterly tell what he is going to do
RJ Rawrr (3:04:04 PM): and react to it
FlameWaveK (3:04:41 PM): backdrop... fair... DJ fair.... drop + ff UpB, DJ uair...
RJ Rawrr (3:04:55 PM): Also
FlameWaveK (3:04:56 PM): Stand-up, ledge attacks, ledgejump..
RJ Rawrr (3:05:00 PM): Stay in Fsmash range
RJ Rawrr (3:05:03 PM): thats key
FlameWaveK (3:05:06 PM): really?
RJ Rawrr (3:05:08 PM): Yes
RJ Rawrr (3:05:27 PM): Lucario's fsmash range is the perfect distance for the Mu when you are harassing him
FlameWaveK (3:05:28 PM): I found myself just having it getting fullhopped over
FlameWaveK (3:05:36 PM): wait
RJ Rawrr (3:05:41 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:05:42 PM): You mean only staying in the tipper range
RJ Rawrr (3:05:47 PM): Yepp =]
FlameWaveK (3:05:57 PM): starting to make sense..
FlameWaveK (3:06:05 PM): but doesn't our fair get beat out
FlameWaveK (3:06:09 PM): like almost every single time
FlameWaveK (3:06:09 PM): ?
RJ Rawrr (3:06:12 PM): Don't fair
RJ Rawrr (3:06:13 PM): Bair.
RJ Rawrr (3:06:22 PM): You will be amazed
RJ Rawrr (3:06:35 PM): how reactable marths ledge jump is
RJ Rawrr (3:06:51 PM): I actually have some more vids that i might upload later
RJ Rawrr (3:07:06 PM): and the most recent ones are me exploiting Pierces marth when he is recovering
RJ Rawrr (3:07:32 PM): Takes practice
RJ Rawrr (3:07:36 PM): but completely doable
RJ Rawrr (3:07:44 PM): Its learning how to train your eye to see how marth moves
RJ Rawrr (3:07:53 PM): marth has the advantage for sure
RJ Rawrr (3:08:02 PM): but marth is a character that if you look at closely
RJ Rawrr (3:08:06 PM): you can see what he is going to do
RJ Rawrr (3:08:29 PM): Dancing blade can be D'ed out of
RJ Rawrr (3:08:35 PM): as well
FlameWaveK (3:08:38 PM): Up and towards?
RJ Rawrr (3:08:41 PM): both
FlameWaveK (3:08:57 PM): I've seen champ get out of DB with sheik nair once.
RJ Rawrr (3:09:10 PM): Thats because they put pauses inbetween
RJ Rawrr (3:09:15 PM): its nto fast enough
RJ Rawrr (3:09:25 PM): if you get hit by Dblade
FlameWaveK (3:09:26 PM): So at perfect speed
RJ Rawrr (3:09:27 PM): its a combo
RJ Rawrr (3:09:31 PM): but
RJ Rawrr (3:09:36 PM): it can be Died out of
FlameWaveK (3:09:55 PM): So, Up and towards is the way?
RJ Rawrr (3:10:03 PM): Up and away form where he is facing you
RJ Rawrr (3:10:19 PM): so move out of the move
RJ Rawrr (3:10:30 PM): while holding diag. up
RJ Rawrr (3:10:43 PM): i show it in the video i showed you as well
FlameWaveK (3:14:29 PM): how does one deal with the fullhops? and when applied defensively instead of on the offensive? Bardull completely walled me out when he had the lead.
RJ Rawrr (3:14:46 PM): Ahh
FlameWaveK (3:14:58 PM): where mike just ***** me flat
RJ Rawrr (3:14:58 PM): for one AS on the rising swings works well
RJ Rawrr (3:15:04 PM): even if marths Fair beats it out
RJ Rawrr (3:15:11 PM): Also
RJ Rawrr (3:15:13 PM): Ftilt
FlameWaveK (3:15:23 PM): angled up I assume?
RJ Rawrr (3:15:27 PM): Yepp
RJ Rawrr (3:15:33 PM): It is the most important tool in this MU
FlameWaveK (3:15:39 PM): well
RJ Rawrr (3:15:45 PM): It is by far your safest move for close range in this MU
FlameWaveK (3:15:45 PM): THAT explains why I got beat so badly
RJ Rawrr (3:15:59 PM): Since it is safe on block
FlameWaveK (3:16:07 PM): ftilt is one of moves I was really reluctant to use in this match-up
RJ Rawrr (3:16:07 PM): You need to react to what marth is doing
RJ Rawrr (3:16:19 PM): yea
RJ Rawrr (3:16:28 PM): Ftilt is lucarios best move in my opinion
FlameWaveK (3:16:37 PM): Its really safe
RJ Rawrr (3:16:42 PM): Yepp
FlameWaveK (3:16:57 PM): really an underused move <<
FlameWaveK (3:17:04 PM): I use it VS heavies
RJ Rawrr (3:17:11 PM): I use it vs everyone
RJ Rawrr (3:17:13 PM): =D
FlameWaveK (3:17:24 PM): I should start too learn too I guess
RJ Rawrr (3:17:24 PM): I can't ignore the fact that I have a safe on hit move
RJ Rawrr (3:17:26 PM): and not use it
RJ Rawrr (3:17:41 PM): since Lucario's whole moveset isnt safe on hit
FlameWaveK (3:18:03 PM): yep
FlameWaveK (3:18:04 PM): but
FlameWaveK (3:18:18 PM): people still get ***** by strings every few times
RJ Rawrr (3:18:26 PM): Its going to happen
RJ Rawrr (3:18:33 PM): When Timbers said Bair was a bad move
FlameWaveK (3:18:34 PM): You're only human
RJ Rawrr (3:18:36 PM): he lied
RJ Rawrr (3:18:40 PM): here is why
RJ Rawrr (3:18:47 PM): Have you ever got hit by D3's Fsmash?
FlameWaveK (3:19:10 PM): Only when my shield got broke
RJ Rawrr (3:19:21 PM): Never when it wasn't?
FlameWaveK (3:19:25 PM): well
RJ Rawrr (3:19:29 PM): you can be honest
RJ Rawrr (3:19:30 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:19:37 PM): I wasn't lucario
RJ Rawrr (3:19:41 PM): Woudlnt matter
FlameWaveK (3:19:41 PM): but yes
FlameWaveK (3:19:44 PM): I've been hit by it
RJ Rawrr (3:19:45 PM): you have been hit by it
RJ Rawrr (3:19:53 PM): Do you kow what frame that comes out on?
FlameWaveK (3:20:03 PM): nope
RJ Rawrr (3:20:09 PM): its about frame 40
FlameWaveK (3:20:09 PM): if it makes a difference
RJ Rawrr (3:20:19 PM): If people can get hit by that
FlameWaveK (3:20:21 PM): I get hit by the shockwave more then the actual hammer
FlameWaveK (3:20:29 PM): thats over half a second.
RJ Rawrr (3:20:31 PM): still have been hit
RJ Rawrr (3:20:31 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:20:31 PM): isn't it?
RJ Rawrr (3:20:38 PM): pretty much
RJ Rawrr (3:20:54 PM): Standard fps is 29.97
RJ Rawrr (3:21:01 PM): in america anyway
FlameWaveK (3:21:11 PM): Nothings gonna be perfect.
RJ Rawrr (3:21:18 PM): BUt here is my claim
RJ Rawrr (3:21:25 PM): our bair comes out about frame what? 14 i think
FlameWaveK (3:21:33 PM): some where over 10
RJ Rawrr (3:21:34 PM): i havent looked since me and phil redid the list
RJ Rawrr (3:21:45 PM): if you can get hit by d3's fsmash
RJ Rawrr (3:21:50 PM): anyone can get hit by bair
FlameWaveK (3:21:52 PM): you can get hit by bair
RJ Rawrr (3:21:55 PM): Exactly
RJ Rawrr (3:22:05 PM): and its fast enough to use it on reaction
RJ Rawrr (3:22:09 PM): Bair is an amazing move
RJ Rawrr (3:22:14 PM): if people get hit by our own Fsmash
RJ Rawrr (3:22:20 PM): people can get hit by bair
FlameWaveK (3:22:25 PM): theres no reason they can't get hit by bair
RJ Rawrr (3:22:30 PM): Good
RJ Rawrr (3:22:46 PM): Now against marth, you want to hold down center stage
RJ Rawrr (3:23:02 PM): Move when you know he is going to swing at you
RJ Rawrr (3:23:06 PM): if he is zoning you
RJ Rawrr (3:23:08 PM): let him zone
FlameWaveK (3:23:24 PM): just be patient?
RJ Rawrr (3:23:29 PM): show **** at him if he want to do that
FlameWaveK (3:23:30 PM): and look for an opening
RJ Rawrr (3:23:30 PM): yepp
RJ Rawrr (3:23:36 PM): this match is all about patience
RJ Rawrr (3:23:39 PM): =]
FlameWaveK (3:23:41 PM): in the event
FlameWaveK (3:23:46 PM): that I don't have the lead
RJ Rawrr (3:23:55 PM): be patient anyway
FlameWaveK (3:24:07 PM): I'd see that work agaisnt mike
RJ Rawrr (3:24:19 PM): it doesn't mean camp him however
FlameWaveK (3:24:22 PM): bardull though... he would just stand there for 8 minutes
RJ Rawrr (3:24:22 PM): camping never works
RJ Rawrr (3:24:30 PM): oh no
RJ Rawrr (3:24:35 PM): like
RJ Rawrr (3:24:37 PM): if he standing there
RJ Rawrr (3:24:39 PM): thats an opening
FlameWaveK (3:24:53 PM): whenever theres no hitbox active
RJ Rawrr (3:24:54 PM): you can litterly walk to him and "make him" do something
FlameWaveK (3:25:11 PM): you have a safe opening... wow this is making more sense then I thought it would
RJ Rawrr (3:25:15 PM): I guess what i am trying to say here is
RJ Rawrr (3:25:19 PM): don't try to swing first
RJ Rawrr (3:25:31 PM): but rather react to you opponant swinging first
FlameWaveK (3:26:02 PM): Pretend its like a normal fighter and hit him on counterhit?
FlameWaveK (3:26:07 PM): in a sense at least
RJ Rawrr (3:26:10 PM): yepp
FlameWaveK (3:26:24 PM): in the event his fair connects with my shield
FlameWaveK (3:26:26 PM): Landed
FlameWaveK (3:26:30 PM): out of my fair range
FlameWaveK (3:26:31 PM): er
FlameWaveK (3:26:32 PM): grab
FlameWaveK (3:26:38 PM): stubby little arms <<
RJ Rawrr (3:26:39 PM): you have time to grab him before he can UpB
FlameWaveK (3:26:45 PM): what?
FlameWaveK (3:26:52 PM): Really?
RJ Rawrr (3:27:04 PM): Landing has 2 frames of lag
FlameWaveK (3:27:12 PM): that one time Ally got "lol denied" by Mike was just a fluke?
RJ Rawrr (3:27:21 PM): and swinging the sword while hitting your shield woudl mean he needs to be in teh air at first
RJ Rawrr (3:27:27 PM): between him going to the floor and landing
RJ Rawrr (3:27:29 PM): you have time
RJ Rawrr (3:27:31 PM): its small
RJ Rawrr (3:27:33 PM): but you have it
FlameWaveK (3:27:39 PM): just gotta learn I guess
FlameWaveK (3:27:41 PM): like you said
FlameWaveK (3:27:50 PM): its requires practice
RJ Rawrr (3:27:56 PM): Yepp
FlameWaveK (3:28:04 PM): oh yeah... last thing about marth
FlameWaveK (3:28:18 PM): So I don't feel like an idiot anymore when I get uaired out of my dair and airdodges
FlameWaveK (3:28:29 PM): how do I deal with being on top of marth :[
FlameWaveK (3:28:36 PM): its never been a problem
RJ Rawrr (3:28:37 PM): Lol
RJ Rawrr (3:28:40 PM): I like this question
FlameWaveK (3:28:49 PM): until mike and bardull were seeded agaisnt me more often
RJ Rawrr (3:28:52 PM): I want you to think for a second
RJ Rawrr (3:29:00 PM): When marth hits your with Uair
RJ Rawrr (3:29:04 PM): how did it happen
FlameWaveK (3:29:14 PM): because I daired and was in the landing lag
FlameWaveK (3:29:16 PM): or
FlameWaveK (3:29:21 PM): I airdodged while he did nothing
FlameWaveK (3:29:26 PM): and he just waited and uairs
RJ Rawrr (3:29:32 PM): You know what that is called
RJ Rawrr (3:29:44 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:29:44 PM): not sure
RJ Rawrr (3:29:48 PM): he is baiting you.
FlameWaveK (3:29:49 PM): of the termonlog
FlameWaveK (3:29:52 PM): -
FlameWaveK (3:29:52 PM): oh
FlameWaveK (3:29:58 PM): baiting...
RJ Rawrr (3:30:02 PM): What I am telling you to do to marth right now
RJ Rawrr (3:30:08 PM): is what they have been doing to you all along
RJ Rawrr (3:30:19 PM): being patient
RJ Rawrr (3:30:22 PM): reacting to what they do
RJ Rawrr (3:30:26 PM): all of it is called baiting
RJ Rawrr (3:30:31 PM): Baiting is:
RJ Rawrr (3:30:58 PM): Forcing your opponent to do one thing, and because of that react to it with something that you opponant can't stop
RJ Rawrr (3:31:03 PM): If you throw a move
RJ Rawrr (3:31:05 PM): your not safe
RJ Rawrr (3:31:10 PM): He is
RJ Rawrr (3:31:12 PM): baiting you
RJ Rawrr (3:31:15 PM): to throw that move
RJ Rawrr (3:31:17 PM): Meaning
RJ Rawrr (3:31:20 PM): your making it to obvious
RJ Rawrr (3:31:22 PM): what you are doing
RJ Rawrr (3:31:28 PM): and he sees it
RJ Rawrr (3:31:33 PM): so he is waiting for you to do it
RJ Rawrr (3:31:37 PM): block or make it miss
RJ Rawrr (3:31:39 PM): and then hit you fori t
FlameWaveK (3:32:30 PM): it all sounds like playing overly defensive, but its possible to do this while applying pressure, no?
FlameWaveK (3:32:40 PM): Its the only reason I can play olimar now.
RJ Rawrr (3:32:44 PM): They key is how to do it
RJ Rawrr (3:32:47 PM): while applying pressure
RJ Rawrr (3:33:22 PM): he intimidated you to throw something that 1) he can stop and 2) he can punish
RJ Rawrr (3:33:43 PM): If he is standing their waiting you for to come down
RJ Rawrr (3:33:46 PM): move away from him.
FlameWaveK (3:33:47 PM): intimidation... yeah...
RJ Rawrr (3:33:59 PM): if he comes up after you
FlameWaveK (3:34:02 PM): Its pretty intimidating when I've been faired to 86% offstage
RJ Rawrr (3:34:03 PM): then try hitting him
FlameWaveK (3:34:09 PM): and then daired out of my airdodge
FlameWaveK (3:34:11 PM): ;_:
FlameWaveK (3:34:32 PM): it happened, and I literally died a little on the inside
FlameWaveK (3:34:43 PM): haha, but I guess I just gotta practice.
FlameWaveK (3:34:47 PM): Thank You
FlameWaveK (3:34:51 PM): You've helped a lot
FlameWaveK (3:34:56 PM): made plenty of things make sense.
RJ Rawrr (3:35:07 PM): Np.
RJ Rawrr (3:35:12 PM): I will be uploading more vids later
RJ Rawrr (3:35:22 PM): so you can see what im talking about also in the future
FlameWaveK (3:35:32 PM): oh *pop*
FlameWaveK (3:35:35 PM): Thats right...
FlameWaveK (3:35:37 PM): Videos
RJ Rawrr (3:35:39 PM): Also, I will be making videos Titled: how to handel stopid moves
FlameWaveK (3:35:46 PM): I have like a few
RJ Rawrr (3:35:53 PM): stupid*
FlameWaveK (3:35:58 PM): please tell me you're doing turnips
FlameWaveK (3:36:00 PM): please.
RJ Rawrr (3:36:06 PM): lol?
RJ Rawrr (3:36:08 PM): Grab them
RJ Rawrr (3:36:08 PM): XD
RJ Rawrr (3:36:16 PM): Fair beats them out as well I believe
RJ Rawrr (3:36:29 PM): but that i don't remember by heart
RJ Rawrr (3:36:35 PM): and would have to retest it
FlameWaveK (3:36:52 PM): You'll... see what I mean
FlameWaveK (3:36:54 PM): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p8ZFMJktFg&feature=channel
FlameWaveK (3:37:15 PM): this was very recent and the only set I could record
FlameWaveK (3:37:31 PM): I have little to no peach practice
FlameWaveK (3:37:34 PM): only other time
FlameWaveK (3:37:43 PM): was when praxis utterly destroyed me in a friendly
RJ Rawrr (3:37:52 PM): lol
RJ Rawrr (3:38:36 PM): Did you seriously get baired 3 times...?
RJ Rawrr (3:38:38 PM): LOL
FlameWaveK (3:38:46 PM): </3
FlameWaveK (3:38:50 PM): Yeah
FlameWaveK (3:38:59 PM): WC lucario, we're hella bad.
RJ Rawrr (3:39:55 PM): fishing for grab
RJ Rawrr (3:39:58 PM): tsk tsk tsk
RJ Rawrr (3:40:07 PM): didn't know lucario had a fishing pole
RJ Rawrr (3:40:16 PM): <3
FlameWaveK (3:40:27 PM): VS Snake and Olimar he does </3
FlameWaveK (3:40:34 PM): thats how I win them at least
FlameWaveK (3:40:40 PM): especially VS Olimar
RJ Rawrr (3:40:53 PM): well its one thing to grab them
RJ Rawrr (3:41:06 PM): its another thing to whif a grab 4 times in one spot
RJ Rawrr (3:41:07 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:41:13 PM): yeah pretty much
FlameWaveK (3:41:21 PM): this was a bad vid of me but
RJ Rawrr (3:41:23 PM): whaty ou did was
RJ Rawrr (3:41:26 PM): sit in one spot
FlameWaveK (3:41:29 PM): vids are the only way to see your mistakes
RJ Rawrr (3:41:29 PM): turh back and forth
RJ Rawrr (3:41:32 PM): and threw grab
RJ Rawrr (3:41:35 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:41:51 PM): It works when they're in the air and they have no jumps left serious :x
FlameWaveK (3:42:05 PM): its the problem I have with multijumpers... and floaters
FlameWaveK (3:42:37 PM): oh
FlameWaveK (3:42:42 PM): and if you have time
FlameWaveK (3:42:47 PM): do take a gander at Inspires vids
FlameWaveK (3:42:55 PM): those are the 1st matches he played offline
FlameWaveK (3:43:01 PM): and I'm planning to take him to more
FlameWaveK (3:43:14 PM): he has potential imo
RJ Rawrr (3:43:31 PM): ill try when i can
FlameWaveK (3:43:35 PM): well
RJ Rawrr (3:43:46 PM): I am about to head out soon
FlameWaveK (3:43:50 PM): haha wow
FlameWaveK (3:43:52 PM): what good timing
FlameWaveK (3:43:57 PM): same here
RJ Rawrr (3:44:00 PM): lol
RJ Rawrr (3:44:09 PM): Keep practicing xP
FlameWaveK (3:44:20 PM): nice talking to you, EC definetely is more technical.
FlameWaveK (3:44:30 PM): when talking to bardull
FlameWaveK (3:44:35 PM): this was his advice after the MM
FlameWaveK (3:45:03 PM): "uh.... you seem to have a problem after you get killed 1st, because your like "how am I going to kill him?" and um.. go for more grabs?"
FlameWaveK (3:45:13 PM): ,-, its worse when he teaches marth
RJ Rawrr (3:45:20 PM): ya, your fishing
RJ Rawrr (3:45:20 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:45:37 PM): fishing is a respected sport in world y'know </3
RJ Rawrr (3:45:50 PM): Not to mention that Lucario's grab isnt a good kill move
RJ Rawrr (3:45:51 PM): Ll
RJ Rawrr (3:45:52 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:46:15 PM): bair kills snake faster then our whole moveset when we did
FlameWaveK (3:46:16 PM): *die
FlameWaveK (3:46:19 PM): *bthrow
FlameWaveK (3:46:28 PM): did I just switch bair with bthrow
FlameWaveK (3:46:29 PM): ._.
RJ Rawrr (3:46:38 PM): Bthrow doesnt kill
RJ Rawrr (3:46:46 PM): Not if DI'ed properly
RJ Rawrr (3:46:56 PM): Fthrow kills, but only if late
RJ Rawrr (3:47:06 PM): since it is DI dependant also
FlameWaveK (3:47:06 PM): hm
FlameWaveK (3:47:12 PM): but its really fast
FlameWaveK (3:47:19 PM): so that helps
RJ Rawrr (3:47:23 PM): Yea, but it still doesnt kill early
RJ Rawrr (3:47:26 PM): LOL
FlameWaveK (3:47:32 PM): it does on castle
RJ Rawrr (3:47:34 PM): Idk, its just an EC thing i guess
RJ Rawrr (3:47:37 PM): I know what I would do
RJ Rawrr (3:47:40 PM): If i see you throw a grab
FlameWaveK (3:47:41 PM): I got HugS with it once <3
RJ Rawrr (3:47:43 PM): im holding up
FlameWaveK (3:47:44 PM): so funny
FlameWaveK (3:47:53 PM): well
FlameWaveK (3:47:56 PM): if you're holding up
FlameWaveK (3:47:57 PM): cool
FlameWaveK (3:48:08 PM): uthrow -> read the AD -> Uair
RJ Rawrr (3:48:18 PM): Uthrow has animation
RJ Rawrr (3:48:27 PM): you can stop holding the direction
RJ Rawrr (3:48:32 PM): before it actually comeso ut
RJ Rawrr (3:48:32 PM): LOL
FlameWaveK (3:48:40 PM): What I learned Today:
FlameWaveK (3:48:44 PM): Marth Match-up
FlameWaveK (3:48:49 PM): EC can react hella fast
RJ Rawrr (3:48:57 PM): Lol, you have to
FlameWaveK (3:49:05 PM): haha
FlameWaveK (3:49:06 PM): well later
FlameWaveK (3:49:13 PM): I'm getting yelled at ><
FlameWaveK (3:49:17 PM): to leave
RJ Rawrr (3:49:17 PM): lol iight
RJ Rawrr (3:49:19 PM): peace
FlameWaveK (3:49:36 PM): we gotta talk more, you're pretty chill and technical <3
FlameWaveK (2:52:31 PM): oh
FlameWaveK (2:52:34 PM): Hello
FlameWaveK (2:52:46 PM): Is this RJ from Smashboards RJ? :o
RJ Rawrr (2:52:53 PM): Who else
RJ Rawrr (2:52:53 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (2:53:00 PM): I'm not sure really
FlameWaveK (2:53:05 PM): I know someone named Rawr.
FlameWaveK (2:53:06 PM): so
RJ Rawrr (2:53:09 PM): mm
RJ Rawrr (2:53:12 PM): Anyway
RJ Rawrr (2:53:18 PM): what seems to be giving you an issue?
FlameWaveK (2:53:23 PM): Marth,
FlameWaveK (2:53:34 PM): Not the bad marths either
FlameWaveK (2:53:40 PM): The one that can actually space and read
FlameWaveK (2:53:42 PM): the bad ones
FlameWaveK (2:53:46 PM): just get ***** by fsmash
FlameWaveK (2:54:00 PM): Mike and Bardull make me so frustrated
FlameWaveK (2:54:20 PM): I get edgeguarded heavilly offstage and generally
FlameWaveK (2:54:29 PM): The difference in % is ussually drastic
RJ Rawrr (2:54:36 PM): lol
RJ Rawrr (2:54:40 PM): Takes time to get use too
RJ Rawrr (2:54:48 PM): Getting back on stage against marth isn't that hard
FlameWaveK (2:54:53 PM): really?
FlameWaveK (2:54:56 PM): it seems like quite the chore
RJ Rawrr (2:55:01 PM): People are just afraid to get to the edge
RJ Rawrr (2:55:14 PM): I can prob tell you what happens
RJ Rawrr (2:55:18 PM): Lets see here
RJ Rawrr (2:55:26 PM): The marth knocks you off stage
FlameWaveK (2:55:38 PM): mmhmm
RJ Rawrr (2:55:40 PM): then he prob jumps and just waits for your move
RJ Rawrr (2:55:44 PM): or
RJ Rawrr (2:55:47 PM): he waits on stage
RJ Rawrr (2:55:53 PM): and waits for you to come back
FlameWaveK (2:55:57 PM): onstage..
FlameWaveK (2:56:06 PM): well
FlameWaveK (2:56:14 PM): I kinda figured that airdodging into marth
FlameWaveK (2:56:16 PM): wasn't the best idea
FlameWaveK (2:56:52 PM): because I was getting forward smashed on landing and faired if I'm still airborne
RJ Rawrr (2:56:56 PM): You wouldnt happen to have any videos of you playing against them, would you?
FlameWaveK (2:57:01 PM): I wish
FlameWaveK (2:57:10 PM): Mike and Bardull don't like to recorded that much
RJ Rawrr (2:57:17 PM): Yea, I know that
FlameWaveK (2:57:25 PM): I might be able to sneak a replay on my TV next time
FlameWaveK (2:57:27 PM): bardull for sure
RJ Rawrr (2:57:27 PM): Even then, it's by your wishing as well
FlameWaveK (2:57:38 PM): he loves my wii only because it has music
FlameWaveK (2:57:48 PM): [and infinate replays]
RJ Rawrr (2:57:51 PM): Lets do this from my videos then
RJ Rawrr (2:58:01 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (2:58:05 PM): Okie
RJ Rawrr (2:58:06 PM): if you happen to save one to your wii
FlameWaveK (2:58:10 PM): I can record
RJ Rawrr (2:58:11 PM): you can prob send it to me
RJ Rawrr (2:58:14 PM): ahh
FlameWaveK (2:58:15 PM): I just put some matches up last night
FlameWaveK (2:58:17 PM): they're terrible
FlameWaveK (2:58:30 PM): I got ***** by peach and I forgot to save the rest
FlameWaveK (2:58:32 PM): but said peach
FlameWaveK (2:58:38 PM): haid so much lucario practice that day
FlameWaveK (2:58:40 PM): *had
FlameWaveK (2:58:45 PM): it wasn't even funny
FlameWaveK (2:59:02 PM): Stauffy in brackets twice + teams
FlameWaveK (2:59:27 PM): and plenty of friendlies VS inspire [the kid I brought over for his 1st tourney and placed the same as stauffy and beat a ranked player <3 so proud]
FlameWaveK (2:59:40 PM): but enough of getting off topic, you said we were gonna work off your videos>
FlameWaveK (2:59:40 PM): ?
RJ Rawrr (2:59:50 PM): Yepp
RJ Rawrr (2:59:51 PM): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7Z77v7GQc
RJ Rawrr (3:00:00 PM): before you start watching
RJ Rawrr (3:00:07 PM): I want you to keep this in mind
RJ Rawrr (3:00:11 PM): every time you play against marth
RJ Rawrr (3:00:16 PM): Marth's recovery is bad.
FlameWaveK (3:00:36 PM): hm
RJ Rawrr (3:00:42 PM): First off
FlameWaveK (3:00:45 PM): I know its absolutely terrible
FlameWaveK (3:00:48 PM): without the DJ
RJ Rawrr (3:00:57 PM): even then
RJ Rawrr (3:01:02 PM): I want you to
RJ Rawrr (3:01:03 PM): remember
RJ Rawrr (3:01:06 PM): how marth gets on stage
RJ Rawrr (3:01:10 PM): when you play against them
FlameWaveK (3:01:13 PM): recovers from below
FlameWaveK (3:01:17 PM): at least
RJ Rawrr (3:01:21 PM): Now
RJ Rawrr (3:01:24 PM): Keep this in mind
RJ Rawrr (3:01:29 PM): marth's ledge options
RJ Rawrr (3:01:33 PM): are 100% the wrose
RJ Rawrr (3:01:40 PM): To tell you the truth
RJ Rawrr (3:01:50 PM): You can harrass marth recovering
RJ Rawrr (3:01:53 PM): better then he can do it to you
FlameWaveK (3:02:11 PM): that makes a bit a sense to me..
FlameWaveK (3:02:42 PM): I'm was scared of chasing marth offstage since I Mike stagespiked me out of me trying to gimp him once that day.
FlameWaveK (3:02:46 PM): Inspire didn't give a ****
FlameWaveK (3:02:51 PM): and he aggro'd them whenever
RJ Rawrr (3:02:52 PM): Naa, don't chase him
RJ Rawrr (3:03:04 PM): all you really need to di is stage on stage
FlameWaveK (3:03:05 PM): He only got one stocked and I got 2 stocked :<
RJ Rawrr (3:03:08 PM): and never spam anything
RJ Rawrr (3:03:19 PM): Just wait for him to do something
FlameWaveK (3:03:21 PM): Don't be readable and just DI well?
RJ Rawrr (3:03:22 PM): From this point
RJ Rawrr (3:03:35 PM): I want you to look how marth uses his options from the ledge
RJ Rawrr (3:03:43 PM): Each one of his options
RJ Rawrr (3:03:51 PM): has a different animation
RJ Rawrr (3:04:02 PM): You can litterly tell what he is going to do
RJ Rawrr (3:04:04 PM): and react to it
FlameWaveK (3:04:41 PM): backdrop... fair... DJ fair.... drop + ff UpB, DJ uair...
RJ Rawrr (3:04:55 PM): Also
FlameWaveK (3:04:56 PM): Stand-up, ledge attacks, ledgejump..
RJ Rawrr (3:05:00 PM): Stay in Fsmash range
RJ Rawrr (3:05:03 PM): thats key
FlameWaveK (3:05:06 PM): really?
RJ Rawrr (3:05:08 PM): Yes
RJ Rawrr (3:05:27 PM): Lucario's fsmash range is the perfect distance for the Mu when you are harassing him
FlameWaveK (3:05:28 PM): I found myself just having it getting fullhopped over
FlameWaveK (3:05:36 PM): wait
RJ Rawrr (3:05:41 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:05:42 PM): You mean only staying in the tipper range
RJ Rawrr (3:05:47 PM): Yepp =]
FlameWaveK (3:05:57 PM): starting to make sense..
FlameWaveK (3:06:05 PM): but doesn't our fair get beat out
FlameWaveK (3:06:09 PM): like almost every single time
FlameWaveK (3:06:09 PM): ?
RJ Rawrr (3:06:12 PM): Don't fair
RJ Rawrr (3:06:13 PM): Bair.
RJ Rawrr (3:06:22 PM): You will be amazed
RJ Rawrr (3:06:35 PM): how reactable marths ledge jump is
RJ Rawrr (3:06:51 PM): I actually have some more vids that i might upload later
RJ Rawrr (3:07:06 PM): and the most recent ones are me exploiting Pierces marth when he is recovering
RJ Rawrr (3:07:32 PM): Takes practice
RJ Rawrr (3:07:36 PM): but completely doable
RJ Rawrr (3:07:44 PM): Its learning how to train your eye to see how marth moves
RJ Rawrr (3:07:53 PM): marth has the advantage for sure
RJ Rawrr (3:08:02 PM): but marth is a character that if you look at closely
RJ Rawrr (3:08:06 PM): you can see what he is going to do
RJ Rawrr (3:08:29 PM): Dancing blade can be D'ed out of
RJ Rawrr (3:08:35 PM): as well
FlameWaveK (3:08:38 PM): Up and towards?
RJ Rawrr (3:08:41 PM): both
FlameWaveK (3:08:57 PM): I've seen champ get out of DB with sheik nair once.
RJ Rawrr (3:09:10 PM): Thats because they put pauses inbetween
RJ Rawrr (3:09:15 PM): its nto fast enough
RJ Rawrr (3:09:25 PM): if you get hit by Dblade
FlameWaveK (3:09:26 PM): So at perfect speed
RJ Rawrr (3:09:27 PM): its a combo
RJ Rawrr (3:09:31 PM): but
RJ Rawrr (3:09:36 PM): it can be Died out of
FlameWaveK (3:09:55 PM): So, Up and towards is the way?
RJ Rawrr (3:10:03 PM): Up and away form where he is facing you
RJ Rawrr (3:10:19 PM): so move out of the move
RJ Rawrr (3:10:30 PM): while holding diag. up
RJ Rawrr (3:10:43 PM): i show it in the video i showed you as well
FlameWaveK (3:14:29 PM): how does one deal with the fullhops? and when applied defensively instead of on the offensive? Bardull completely walled me out when he had the lead.
RJ Rawrr (3:14:46 PM): Ahh
FlameWaveK (3:14:58 PM): where mike just ***** me flat
RJ Rawrr (3:14:58 PM): for one AS on the rising swings works well
RJ Rawrr (3:15:04 PM): even if marths Fair beats it out
RJ Rawrr (3:15:11 PM): Also
RJ Rawrr (3:15:13 PM): Ftilt
FlameWaveK (3:15:23 PM): angled up I assume?
RJ Rawrr (3:15:27 PM): Yepp
RJ Rawrr (3:15:33 PM): It is the most important tool in this MU
FlameWaveK (3:15:39 PM): well
RJ Rawrr (3:15:45 PM): It is by far your safest move for close range in this MU
FlameWaveK (3:15:45 PM): THAT explains why I got beat so badly
RJ Rawrr (3:15:59 PM): Since it is safe on block
FlameWaveK (3:16:07 PM): ftilt is one of moves I was really reluctant to use in this match-up
RJ Rawrr (3:16:07 PM): You need to react to what marth is doing
RJ Rawrr (3:16:19 PM): yea
RJ Rawrr (3:16:28 PM): Ftilt is lucarios best move in my opinion
FlameWaveK (3:16:37 PM): Its really safe
RJ Rawrr (3:16:42 PM): Yepp
FlameWaveK (3:16:57 PM): really an underused move <<
FlameWaveK (3:17:04 PM): I use it VS heavies
RJ Rawrr (3:17:11 PM): I use it vs everyone
RJ Rawrr (3:17:13 PM): =D
FlameWaveK (3:17:24 PM): I should start too learn too I guess
RJ Rawrr (3:17:24 PM): I can't ignore the fact that I have a safe on hit move
RJ Rawrr (3:17:26 PM): and not use it
RJ Rawrr (3:17:41 PM): since Lucario's whole moveset isnt safe on hit
FlameWaveK (3:18:03 PM): yep
FlameWaveK (3:18:04 PM): but
FlameWaveK (3:18:18 PM): people still get ***** by strings every few times
RJ Rawrr (3:18:26 PM): Its going to happen
RJ Rawrr (3:18:33 PM): When Timbers said Bair was a bad move
FlameWaveK (3:18:34 PM): You're only human
RJ Rawrr (3:18:36 PM): he lied
RJ Rawrr (3:18:40 PM): here is why
RJ Rawrr (3:18:47 PM): Have you ever got hit by D3's Fsmash?
FlameWaveK (3:19:10 PM): Only when my shield got broke
RJ Rawrr (3:19:21 PM): Never when it wasn't?
FlameWaveK (3:19:25 PM): well
RJ Rawrr (3:19:29 PM): you can be honest
RJ Rawrr (3:19:30 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:19:37 PM): I wasn't lucario
RJ Rawrr (3:19:41 PM): Woudlnt matter
FlameWaveK (3:19:41 PM): but yes
FlameWaveK (3:19:44 PM): I've been hit by it
RJ Rawrr (3:19:45 PM): you have been hit by it
RJ Rawrr (3:19:53 PM): Do you kow what frame that comes out on?
FlameWaveK (3:20:03 PM): nope
RJ Rawrr (3:20:09 PM): its about frame 40
FlameWaveK (3:20:09 PM): if it makes a difference
RJ Rawrr (3:20:19 PM): If people can get hit by that
FlameWaveK (3:20:21 PM): I get hit by the shockwave more then the actual hammer
FlameWaveK (3:20:29 PM): thats over half a second.
RJ Rawrr (3:20:31 PM): still have been hit
RJ Rawrr (3:20:31 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:20:31 PM): isn't it?
RJ Rawrr (3:20:38 PM): pretty much
RJ Rawrr (3:20:54 PM): Standard fps is 29.97
RJ Rawrr (3:21:01 PM): in america anyway
FlameWaveK (3:21:11 PM): Nothings gonna be perfect.
RJ Rawrr (3:21:18 PM): BUt here is my claim
RJ Rawrr (3:21:25 PM): our bair comes out about frame what? 14 i think
FlameWaveK (3:21:33 PM): some where over 10
RJ Rawrr (3:21:34 PM): i havent looked since me and phil redid the list
RJ Rawrr (3:21:45 PM): if you can get hit by d3's fsmash
RJ Rawrr (3:21:50 PM): anyone can get hit by bair
FlameWaveK (3:21:52 PM): you can get hit by bair
RJ Rawrr (3:21:55 PM): Exactly
RJ Rawrr (3:22:05 PM): and its fast enough to use it on reaction
RJ Rawrr (3:22:09 PM): Bair is an amazing move
RJ Rawrr (3:22:14 PM): if people get hit by our own Fsmash
RJ Rawrr (3:22:20 PM): people can get hit by bair
FlameWaveK (3:22:25 PM): theres no reason they can't get hit by bair
RJ Rawrr (3:22:30 PM): Good
RJ Rawrr (3:22:46 PM): Now against marth, you want to hold down center stage
RJ Rawrr (3:23:02 PM): Move when you know he is going to swing at you
RJ Rawrr (3:23:06 PM): if he is zoning you
RJ Rawrr (3:23:08 PM): let him zone
FlameWaveK (3:23:24 PM): just be patient?
RJ Rawrr (3:23:29 PM): show **** at him if he want to do that
FlameWaveK (3:23:30 PM): and look for an opening
RJ Rawrr (3:23:30 PM): yepp
RJ Rawrr (3:23:36 PM): this match is all about patience
RJ Rawrr (3:23:39 PM): =]
FlameWaveK (3:23:41 PM): in the event
FlameWaveK (3:23:46 PM): that I don't have the lead
RJ Rawrr (3:23:55 PM): be patient anyway
FlameWaveK (3:24:07 PM): I'd see that work agaisnt mike
RJ Rawrr (3:24:19 PM): it doesn't mean camp him however
FlameWaveK (3:24:22 PM): bardull though... he would just stand there for 8 minutes
RJ Rawrr (3:24:22 PM): camping never works
RJ Rawrr (3:24:30 PM): oh no
RJ Rawrr (3:24:35 PM): like
RJ Rawrr (3:24:37 PM): if he standing there
RJ Rawrr (3:24:39 PM): thats an opening
FlameWaveK (3:24:53 PM): whenever theres no hitbox active
RJ Rawrr (3:24:54 PM): you can litterly walk to him and "make him" do something
FlameWaveK (3:25:11 PM): you have a safe opening... wow this is making more sense then I thought it would
RJ Rawrr (3:25:15 PM): I guess what i am trying to say here is
RJ Rawrr (3:25:19 PM): don't try to swing first
RJ Rawrr (3:25:31 PM): but rather react to you opponant swinging first
FlameWaveK (3:26:02 PM): Pretend its like a normal fighter and hit him on counterhit?
FlameWaveK (3:26:07 PM): in a sense at least
RJ Rawrr (3:26:10 PM): yepp
FlameWaveK (3:26:24 PM): in the event his fair connects with my shield
FlameWaveK (3:26:26 PM): Landed
FlameWaveK (3:26:30 PM): out of my fair range
FlameWaveK (3:26:31 PM): er
FlameWaveK (3:26:32 PM): grab
FlameWaveK (3:26:38 PM): stubby little arms <<
RJ Rawrr (3:26:39 PM): you have time to grab him before he can UpB
FlameWaveK (3:26:45 PM): what?
FlameWaveK (3:26:52 PM): Really?
RJ Rawrr (3:27:04 PM): Landing has 2 frames of lag
FlameWaveK (3:27:12 PM): that one time Ally got "lol denied" by Mike was just a fluke?
RJ Rawrr (3:27:21 PM): and swinging the sword while hitting your shield woudl mean he needs to be in teh air at first
RJ Rawrr (3:27:27 PM): between him going to the floor and landing
RJ Rawrr (3:27:29 PM): you have time
RJ Rawrr (3:27:31 PM): its small
RJ Rawrr (3:27:33 PM): but you have it
FlameWaveK (3:27:39 PM): just gotta learn I guess
FlameWaveK (3:27:41 PM): like you said
FlameWaveK (3:27:50 PM): its requires practice
RJ Rawrr (3:27:56 PM): Yepp
FlameWaveK (3:28:04 PM): oh yeah... last thing about marth
FlameWaveK (3:28:18 PM): So I don't feel like an idiot anymore when I get uaired out of my dair and airdodges
FlameWaveK (3:28:29 PM): how do I deal with being on top of marth :[
FlameWaveK (3:28:36 PM): its never been a problem
RJ Rawrr (3:28:37 PM): Lol
RJ Rawrr (3:28:40 PM): I like this question
FlameWaveK (3:28:49 PM): until mike and bardull were seeded agaisnt me more often
RJ Rawrr (3:28:52 PM): I want you to think for a second
RJ Rawrr (3:29:00 PM): When marth hits your with Uair
RJ Rawrr (3:29:04 PM): how did it happen
FlameWaveK (3:29:14 PM): because I daired and was in the landing lag
FlameWaveK (3:29:16 PM): or
FlameWaveK (3:29:21 PM): I airdodged while he did nothing
FlameWaveK (3:29:26 PM): and he just waited and uairs
RJ Rawrr (3:29:32 PM): You know what that is called
RJ Rawrr (3:29:44 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:29:44 PM): not sure
RJ Rawrr (3:29:48 PM): he is baiting you.
FlameWaveK (3:29:49 PM): of the termonlog
FlameWaveK (3:29:52 PM): -
FlameWaveK (3:29:52 PM): oh
FlameWaveK (3:29:58 PM): baiting...
RJ Rawrr (3:30:02 PM): What I am telling you to do to marth right now
RJ Rawrr (3:30:08 PM): is what they have been doing to you all along
RJ Rawrr (3:30:19 PM): being patient
RJ Rawrr (3:30:22 PM): reacting to what they do
RJ Rawrr (3:30:26 PM): all of it is called baiting
RJ Rawrr (3:30:31 PM): Baiting is:
RJ Rawrr (3:30:58 PM): Forcing your opponent to do one thing, and because of that react to it with something that you opponant can't stop
RJ Rawrr (3:31:03 PM): If you throw a move
RJ Rawrr (3:31:05 PM): your not safe
RJ Rawrr (3:31:10 PM): He is
RJ Rawrr (3:31:12 PM): baiting you
RJ Rawrr (3:31:15 PM): to throw that move
RJ Rawrr (3:31:17 PM): Meaning
RJ Rawrr (3:31:20 PM): your making it to obvious
RJ Rawrr (3:31:22 PM): what you are doing
RJ Rawrr (3:31:28 PM): and he sees it
RJ Rawrr (3:31:33 PM): so he is waiting for you to do it
RJ Rawrr (3:31:37 PM): block or make it miss
RJ Rawrr (3:31:39 PM): and then hit you fori t
FlameWaveK (3:32:30 PM): it all sounds like playing overly defensive, but its possible to do this while applying pressure, no?
FlameWaveK (3:32:40 PM): Its the only reason I can play olimar now.
RJ Rawrr (3:32:44 PM): They key is how to do it
RJ Rawrr (3:32:47 PM): while applying pressure
RJ Rawrr (3:33:22 PM): he intimidated you to throw something that 1) he can stop and 2) he can punish
RJ Rawrr (3:33:43 PM): If he is standing their waiting you for to come down
RJ Rawrr (3:33:46 PM): move away from him.
FlameWaveK (3:33:47 PM): intimidation... yeah...
RJ Rawrr (3:33:59 PM): if he comes up after you
FlameWaveK (3:34:02 PM): Its pretty intimidating when I've been faired to 86% offstage
RJ Rawrr (3:34:03 PM): then try hitting him
FlameWaveK (3:34:09 PM): and then daired out of my airdodge
FlameWaveK (3:34:11 PM): ;_:
FlameWaveK (3:34:32 PM): it happened, and I literally died a little on the inside
FlameWaveK (3:34:43 PM): haha, but I guess I just gotta practice.
FlameWaveK (3:34:47 PM): Thank You
FlameWaveK (3:34:51 PM): You've helped a lot
FlameWaveK (3:34:56 PM): made plenty of things make sense.
RJ Rawrr (3:35:07 PM): Np.
RJ Rawrr (3:35:12 PM): I will be uploading more vids later
RJ Rawrr (3:35:22 PM): so you can see what im talking about also in the future
FlameWaveK (3:35:32 PM): oh *pop*
FlameWaveK (3:35:35 PM): Thats right...
FlameWaveK (3:35:37 PM): Videos
RJ Rawrr (3:35:39 PM): Also, I will be making videos Titled: how to handel stopid moves
FlameWaveK (3:35:46 PM): I have like a few
RJ Rawrr (3:35:53 PM): stupid*
FlameWaveK (3:35:58 PM): please tell me you're doing turnips
FlameWaveK (3:36:00 PM): please.
RJ Rawrr (3:36:06 PM): lol?
RJ Rawrr (3:36:08 PM): Grab them
RJ Rawrr (3:36:08 PM): XD
RJ Rawrr (3:36:16 PM): Fair beats them out as well I believe
RJ Rawrr (3:36:29 PM): but that i don't remember by heart
RJ Rawrr (3:36:35 PM): and would have to retest it
FlameWaveK (3:36:52 PM): You'll... see what I mean
FlameWaveK (3:36:54 PM): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p8ZFMJktFg&feature=channel
FlameWaveK (3:37:15 PM): this was very recent and the only set I could record
FlameWaveK (3:37:31 PM): I have little to no peach practice
FlameWaveK (3:37:34 PM): only other time
FlameWaveK (3:37:43 PM): was when praxis utterly destroyed me in a friendly
RJ Rawrr (3:37:52 PM): lol
RJ Rawrr (3:38:36 PM): Did you seriously get baired 3 times...?
RJ Rawrr (3:38:38 PM): LOL
FlameWaveK (3:38:46 PM): </3
FlameWaveK (3:38:50 PM): Yeah
FlameWaveK (3:38:59 PM): WC lucario, we're hella bad.
RJ Rawrr (3:39:55 PM): fishing for grab
RJ Rawrr (3:39:58 PM): tsk tsk tsk
RJ Rawrr (3:40:07 PM): didn't know lucario had a fishing pole
RJ Rawrr (3:40:16 PM): <3
FlameWaveK (3:40:27 PM): VS Snake and Olimar he does </3
FlameWaveK (3:40:34 PM): thats how I win them at least
FlameWaveK (3:40:40 PM): especially VS Olimar
RJ Rawrr (3:40:53 PM): well its one thing to grab them
RJ Rawrr (3:41:06 PM): its another thing to whif a grab 4 times in one spot
RJ Rawrr (3:41:07 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:41:13 PM): yeah pretty much
FlameWaveK (3:41:21 PM): this was a bad vid of me but
RJ Rawrr (3:41:23 PM): whaty ou did was
RJ Rawrr (3:41:26 PM): sit in one spot
FlameWaveK (3:41:29 PM): vids are the only way to see your mistakes
RJ Rawrr (3:41:29 PM): turh back and forth
RJ Rawrr (3:41:32 PM): and threw grab
RJ Rawrr (3:41:35 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:41:51 PM): It works when they're in the air and they have no jumps left serious :x
FlameWaveK (3:42:05 PM): its the problem I have with multijumpers... and floaters
FlameWaveK (3:42:37 PM): oh
FlameWaveK (3:42:42 PM): and if you have time
FlameWaveK (3:42:47 PM): do take a gander at Inspires vids
FlameWaveK (3:42:55 PM): those are the 1st matches he played offline
FlameWaveK (3:43:01 PM): and I'm planning to take him to more
FlameWaveK (3:43:14 PM): he has potential imo
RJ Rawrr (3:43:31 PM): ill try when i can
FlameWaveK (3:43:35 PM): well
RJ Rawrr (3:43:46 PM): I am about to head out soon
FlameWaveK (3:43:50 PM): haha wow
FlameWaveK (3:43:52 PM): what good timing
FlameWaveK (3:43:57 PM): same here
RJ Rawrr (3:44:00 PM): lol
RJ Rawrr (3:44:09 PM): Keep practicing xP
FlameWaveK (3:44:20 PM): nice talking to you, EC definetely is more technical.
FlameWaveK (3:44:30 PM): when talking to bardull
FlameWaveK (3:44:35 PM): this was his advice after the MM
FlameWaveK (3:45:03 PM): "uh.... you seem to have a problem after you get killed 1st, because your like "how am I going to kill him?" and um.. go for more grabs?"
FlameWaveK (3:45:13 PM): ,-, its worse when he teaches marth
RJ Rawrr (3:45:20 PM): ya, your fishing
RJ Rawrr (3:45:20 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:45:37 PM): fishing is a respected sport in world y'know </3
RJ Rawrr (3:45:50 PM): Not to mention that Lucario's grab isnt a good kill move
RJ Rawrr (3:45:51 PM): Ll
RJ Rawrr (3:45:52 PM): lol
FlameWaveK (3:46:15 PM): bair kills snake faster then our whole moveset when we did
FlameWaveK (3:46:16 PM): *die
FlameWaveK (3:46:19 PM): *bthrow
FlameWaveK (3:46:28 PM): did I just switch bair with bthrow
FlameWaveK (3:46:29 PM): ._.
RJ Rawrr (3:46:38 PM): Bthrow doesnt kill
RJ Rawrr (3:46:46 PM): Not if DI'ed properly
RJ Rawrr (3:46:56 PM): Fthrow kills, but only if late
RJ Rawrr (3:47:06 PM): since it is DI dependant also
FlameWaveK (3:47:06 PM): hm
FlameWaveK (3:47:12 PM): but its really fast
FlameWaveK (3:47:19 PM): so that helps
RJ Rawrr (3:47:23 PM): Yea, but it still doesnt kill early
RJ Rawrr (3:47:26 PM): LOL
FlameWaveK (3:47:32 PM): it does on castle
RJ Rawrr (3:47:34 PM): Idk, its just an EC thing i guess
RJ Rawrr (3:47:37 PM): I know what I would do
RJ Rawrr (3:47:40 PM): If i see you throw a grab
FlameWaveK (3:47:41 PM): I got HugS with it once <3
RJ Rawrr (3:47:43 PM): im holding up
FlameWaveK (3:47:44 PM): so funny
FlameWaveK (3:47:53 PM): well
FlameWaveK (3:47:56 PM): if you're holding up
FlameWaveK (3:47:57 PM): cool
FlameWaveK (3:48:08 PM): uthrow -> read the AD -> Uair
RJ Rawrr (3:48:18 PM): Uthrow has animation
RJ Rawrr (3:48:27 PM): you can stop holding the direction
RJ Rawrr (3:48:32 PM): before it actually comeso ut
RJ Rawrr (3:48:32 PM): LOL
FlameWaveK (3:48:40 PM): What I learned Today:
FlameWaveK (3:48:44 PM): Marth Match-up
FlameWaveK (3:48:49 PM): EC can react hella fast
RJ Rawrr (3:48:57 PM): Lol, you have to
FlameWaveK (3:49:05 PM): haha
FlameWaveK (3:49:06 PM): well later
FlameWaveK (3:49:13 PM): I'm getting yelled at ><
FlameWaveK (3:49:17 PM): to leave
RJ Rawrr (3:49:17 PM): lol iight
RJ Rawrr (3:49:19 PM): peace
FlameWaveK (3:49:36 PM): we gotta talk more, you're pretty chill and technical <3