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[Ridley_Prime]

Vitriolic opponents of a character they don’t like will always see only what they want to see when it comes to mods and such (even though Bagan’s Ridley isn’t OP), but that’s nothing new. The best Rid mods have been a critical success though with many fans everywhere, casual and hardcore alike, and that’s what matters IMO.

 

[majorasmaskfan]

After researching old Ridley mods, I really hate his other m design, Samus returns all the way the smaller wings help. But i think Ridley should walk on all 4s. Like ivysaur

 

[Drclaw411]

The argument of the Too Bigots should have died when Melee’s intro showed an appropriately sized Ridley designed specifically for Smash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hey...

Just to cover our butts and not be labeled as "THOSE guys."

Can we not use the term "Too Bigots?"

Does nothing but divide us.

 

[SmashKeks]

Hey...

Just to cover our butts and not be labeled as "THOSE guys."

Can we not use the term "Too Bigots?"

Does nothing but divide us.

I feel bad for not speaking up because I thought it was admittedly clever wordplay, but yeah I got the vibes too that it seemed like an unnecessarily divisive term.

 

[Deleted member]

The argument of the Too Bigots should have died when Melee’s intro showed an appropriately sized Ridley designed specifically for Smash.

-sigh-

No it didn't.

Camera perspective.
Look at the Baby Metroid's container compared to Samus.


People need to stop using the Melee opening as a valid argument against detractors. It isn't one.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

No not again don't start this Ridley is too big for smash stuff we know Ridley can be resized

Besides the real golden ticket to prove he can be shrunken to bowser size is captain olimar

They had to make him grow immensely to be playable in smash

Olimar real hight is about 1.9 centimeters tall that's about three quarters of an inch

And in smash he's about 2/3 of marios height and Mario is about 5 foot 1 inch which is about 61 inches give or take

So doing the math

Marios height in inches minus 33% (1/3) = olimar approximate height in smash is 40.87 inches give or take

Minus his real height 0.75 (3/4 of an inch) = 40.12 then this divided by 0.75 after that multiply times 100

that's approximately increase of 5349% in olimar's height

And Ridley needs a way less amount decrease than that to be just slightly taller than bowser/DK/Rosalina

 

[Drclaw411]

-sigh-

No it didn't.

Camera perspective.
Look at the Baby Metroid's container compared to Samus.


People need to stop using the Melee opening as a valid argument against detractors. It isn't one.

Yes it did. And it’s not like there was just one camera angle, there were multiple in that scene. That was a perfect resizing.

 

[Morbi]

Vitriolic opponents of a character they don’t like will always see only what they want to see when it comes to mods and such (even though Bagan’s Ridley isn’t OP), but that’s nothing new. The best Rid mods have been a critical success though with many fans everywhere, casual and hardcore alike, and that’s what matters IMO.

To be completely fair, they could literally say the same. "Supporters of a character they unconditionally love will always see only what they want to see when it comes to mods and such (even though Blah Blah's Ridley is extremely OP), but that's nothing new.

In the end, I do not feel as though the discussion should even be drawn to mods as they are irrelevant to whether or not Sakurai will make it happen.

 

[Deleted member]

Besides the real golden ticket to prove he can be shrunken to bowser size is captain olimar

They had to make him grow immensely to be playable in smash

Olimar real hight is about 1.9 centimeters tall that's about three quarters of an inch

And in smash he's about 2/3 of marios height and Mario is about 5 foot 1 inch which is about 61 inches give or take

So doing the math

Marios height in inches minus 33% (1/3) = olimar approximate height in smash is 40.87 inches give or take

Minus his real height 0.75 (3/4 of an inch) = 40.12 then this divided by 0.75 after that multiply times 100

that's approximately increase of 5349% in olimar's height

And you know what else got increased in size?

Literally everything else about the Pikmin franchise ALONG with Olimar.

So no, Melee opening isn't a valid argument, neither is Olimar.

Yes it did. And it’s not like there was just one camera angle, there were multiple in that scene. That was a perfect resizing.

No it did not.
You are only seeing what you want to see out of it.
And I'm speaking as someone who used to use it as an argument before I realized it's invalid.
He's pretty much the same size as in Brawl. In gameplay, not in the cinematic for SSE.

Look, I'm not trying to be a detractor. I want to see how Ridley would be handled as a playable fighter.

I'm trying to get people to stop using certain arguments that detractors will not take seriously due to their glaring flaws.
Find alternative points to bring up. Focus less on the idea of comparing Ridley to other characters and more of what can be done to help alleviate some of the issues Sakurai had stated before other than just "he can be scaled down".

 

[Morbi]

Look, I'm not trying to be a detractor. I want to see how Ridley would be handled as a playable fighter.

I'm trying to get people to stop using certain arguments that detractors will not take seriously due to their glaring flaws.

Honestly, that was one of the inherent problems last time that gave everyone a terrible impression of Ridley supporters. People would gang up on people that were unconvinced, they would just tell the detractors to read the TOME original post rather than actually engaging with them, and yes, the same tired arguments over and over again.

All that does is make people NOT want to see a character that they would otherwise, very likely, be thrilled for. Ridley is the biggest Nintendo character not yet in the game, and I am definitely not talking about his size.

 

[Staarih]

I dunno, I just took a look at the Melee opening and even if it is just the camera angle, the way it looks to the viewer does seem like an appropriately good size for Ridley (if pertained as what we "see" - the model itself is probably actually bigger there, sure). And a modernized version of that design of Ridley would be welcome.

Funny how I just got around to actually take a closer look at Ridley in the opening even if it's been talked about many many times

 

[Morbi]

I dunno, I just took a look at the Melee opening and even if it is just the camera angle, the way it looks to the viewer does seem like an appropriately good size for Ridley (if pertained as what we "see" - the model itself is probably actually bigger there, sure). And a modernized version of that design of Ridley would be welcome.

Funny how I just got around to actually take a closer look at Ridley in the opening even if it's been talked about many many times

I agree with that sentiment, I believe the Melee opening is worth discussing merely to give a demonstration of what Ridley would hypothetically look like relative to Samus. It does not matter that he is actually bigger because it enables people who genuinely believe that he is unscalable... an example of a scale. Mods CAN do that, but it is better to use something official.

 

[IronTed]

I dunno, I just took a look at the Melee opening and even if it is just the camera angle, the way it looks to the viewer does seem like an appropriately good size for Ridley (if pertained as what we "see" - the model itself is probably actually bigger there, sure). And a modernized version of that design of Ridley would be welcome.

Funny how I just got around to actually take a closer look at Ridley in the opening even if it's been talked about many many times

It's all a matter of perspective. How big Ridley is doesn't matter to people, it's how big he looks. The Melee trailer displayed Ridley in a way that actually convinced people he was a workable size despite him actually being his normal size.

Obviously this wouldn't apply to Smash in this way, you can't keep his current size and pass him off as much smaller, the perspective can't be worked like that.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Honestly, that was one of the inherent problems last time that gave everyone a terrible impression of Ridley supporters. People would gang up on people that were unconvinced, they would just tell the detractors to read the TOME original post rather than actually engaging with them, and yes, the same tired arguments over and over again.

All that does is make people NOT want to see a character that they would otherwise, very likely, be thrilled for. Ridley is the biggest Nintendo character not yet in the game, and I am definitely not talking about his size.

I mean, let's not talk as if every detractor wanted to be convinced, some people went into the Ridley thread with the one intention of making a mess. The way the detractors approach us has a lot to say, there were a few people who came in with the actual intention of discussing the subject at hand, but most just went with the classic "too big lol, give up guys", in which case they deserve a stupid answer to a stupid comment. If there's one thing I've learned by spending so much time on the internet it's that most people don't make counterarguments while being open to the possiblity of having their mind changed, but rather to try and convince everybody else that they're wrong, which doesn't fly at all when you go into a thread where everybody has the opposite opinion, it's like stirring a hornet's nest.

I agree with your comment in general though, a lot of Ridley supporters didn't cover themselves in glory, which is why it often turned into a hot boiling mess, stupidity vs stupidity creates even more stupidity. Ridley has become such a divisive character because his support has gone on for so long, so pretty much everyone involved in the Smash community has gotten an opinion on him one way or the other based on their interactions with his fanbase. Thankfully we haven't seen nearly as many arguments in this thread so far, which is probably a result of very few actually believing he has a chance at making it this time, it's more like a social thread.

 

[IronTed]

Given that most people dislike his Other M design (myself included), what are people's thoughts on Proteus Ridley's design? Would you approve of it being the base of a hypothetical playable Ridley?

 

[MrRoidley]

Given that most people dislike his Other M design (myself included), what are people's thoughts on Proteus Ridley's design? Would you approve of it being the base of a hypothetical playable Ridley?

Proteus is basically what I want to see from Ridley in Smash ever since I battled him in Samus Returns! From design to some of the moveset even

 

[FunAtParties]

I mean, let's not talk as if every detractor wanted to be convinced, some people went into the Ridley thread with the one intention of making a mess. The way the detractors approach us has a lot to say, there were a few people who came in with the actual intention of discussing the subject at hand, but most just went with the classic "too big lol, give up guys", in which case they deserve a stupid answer to a stupid comment. If there's one thing I've learned by spending so much time on the internet it's that most people don't make counterarguments while being open to the possiblity of having their mind changed, but rather to try and convince everybody else that they're wrong, which doesn't fly at all when you go into a thread where everybody has the opposite opinion, it's like stirring a hornet's nest.

I agree with your comment in general though, a lot of Ridley supporters didn't cover themselves in glory, which is why it often turned into a hot boiling mess, stupidity vs stupidity creates even more stupidity. Ridley has become such a divisive character because his support has gone on for so long, so pretty much everyone involved in the Smash community has gotten an opinion on him one way or the other based on their interactions with his fanbase. Thankfully we haven't seen nearly as many arguments in this thread so far, which is probably a result of very few actually believing he has a chance at making it this time, it's more like a social thread.

I'll be honest, you're 100% right, and I use to do this a lot. Hated Snake, constantly **** talked the character, his fit, blah blah blah. I wasn't making good points, just wanted people to see things through my eyes. They didn't, and why would they? I wasn't saying anything factual even though I tried to pass it off that way. I stopped doing that because I grew up, but the reality is some people still straight up feel like there is a correct way of thinking, and don't wanna hear otherwise, because it's the other people that just don't understand.

Because of Sakurai somewhat reaffirming their opinion, Ridley deals with this more than any other character, because people treat his opinion as bible. Mods aren't going to change their mind, any proof of concept won't change their mind, they're going to feel the way they choose until something clicks and makes them reevaluate their way of thinking.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

And you know what else got increased in size?

Literally everything else about the Pikmin franchise ALONG with Olimar.

So no, Melee opening isn't a valid argument, neither is Olimar.

No it did not.
You are only seeing what you want to see out of it.
And I'm speaking as someone who used to use it as an argument before I realized it's invalid.
He's pretty much the same size as in Brawl. In gameplay, not in the cinematic for SSE.
.

all im looking at is another ridley is too bigot person obviously

but im not expecting ridley like last time im only hopeful

i mean one grain of hope is that tease leak from the dude from earlier
(and aware that can mean anything about ridley)

i can't believe i have to argue with these ridley's too big for smash people again

 

[FunAtParties]

all im looking at is another ridley is too bigot person obviously

but im not expecting ridley like last time im only hopeful

i mean one grain of hope is that tease leak from the dude from earlier
(and aware that can mean anything about ridley)

i can't believe i have to argue with these ridley's too big for smash people again

He's not saying Ridley is too big, he's saying the Melee intro isn't a good example of him not being too big.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Dammit, stop saying toobigot. It might’ve been fashionable to use at one point, but it’s long overstayed its welcome.

To be completely fair, they could literally say the same. "Supporters of a character they unconditionally love will always see only what they want to see when it comes to mods and such (even though Blah Blah's Ridley is extremely OP), but that's nothing new.

In the end, I do not feel as though the discussion should even be drawn to mods as they are irrelevant to whether or not Sakurai will make it happen.

Meh. Fair enough.

Honestly, that was one of the inherent problems last time that gave everyone a terrible impression of Ridley supporters. People would gang up on people that were unconvinced, they would just tell the detractors to read the TOME original post rather than actually engaging with them, and yes, the same tired arguments over and over again.

All that does is make people NOT want to see a character that they would otherwise, very likely, be thrilled for. Ridley is the biggest Nintendo character not yet in the game, and I am definitely not talking about his size.

I was definitely not proud of some supporters using some of the same tired outdated arguments. The Melee intro was one thing, but constantly pointing to NES Ridley which was retconned by the Zero Mission remake? Come on now.

Wariofan1 (still seems weird to call him MasterofKnees or whatever) pretty much covered the rest of what I would’ve said. I’m all for engaging with any open-minded people that just might need some convincing first to be thrilled for the idea of seeing Ridley playable, but plenty back then just came to the thread to cause trouble, tell us all to give up, demoralize us, etc. There was even one user or two that some of us did engage with fairly but in the end just went “I didn’t read your replies because nothing you lot say will convince me Ridley could work”, which was the equivalent of talking with a brick wall, so I can’t entirely blame some supporters for being the way they were at times, even if I wasn’t proud of it.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

He's not saying Ridley is too big, he's saying the Melee intro isn't a good example of him not being too big.

oh really

im not defending that

theres no way to tell how big ridley is in that

its one of these

a forced prespective

if we had samus close to ridley while she was jump then we can get a good size

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

I never thought people used the melee intro as “proof” Ridley has been that size before. I always thought it was used to demonstrate that he wouldn’t look terrible if his size was comparable to that forced perspective shot.

 

[A Distant Demon]

all im looking at is another ridley is too bigot person obviously

but im not expecting ridley like last time im only hopeful

i mean one grain of hope is that tease leak from the dude from earlier
(and aware that can mean anything about ridley)

i can't believe i have to argue with these ridley's too big for smash people again

1. we should have dropped that term ages ago because it's stupid as hell and builds on the "us vs them" mentality
2. you're calling a Ridley supporter a "too bigot"
3. he's right

 

[FunAtParties]

I never thought people used the melee intro as “proof” Ridley has been that size before. I always thought it was used to demonstrate that he wouldn’t look terrible if his size was comparable to that forced perspective shot.

I used to use it as proof tbh. The distance between them doesn't seem that far, and Ridley looks small here. I get baby metroid is supposed to be bigger, but I mean, they could've been resized too lol. Either way, it just felt like a good example of how Sakurai has resized Ridley in the past, though it's not entirely accurate.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Given that most people dislike his Other M design (myself included), what are people's thoughts on Proteus Ridley's design? Would you approve of it being the base of a hypothetical playable Ridley?

I like it a lot, but for Smash I'd probably remove the metal plating just to have a design that better represents Ridley's general design. I also think there still are a few proportion issues, his arms, legs and tail would need to be shorter, and while his wingspan is fine on the concept art it's too wide on the ingame model. I don't think any of those changes would be massive undertakings though, it's probably the Ridley design that's easiest for them to alter into a proper fighter, but I still think that if he does make it they'll give him a brand new custom design.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I would be happy if Ridley is in Smash, but I am NOT buying anymore "leak" that just happens to mention Ridley.

They could be trolls at best who wants to feed on Ridley fans' disappointment.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

1. we should have dropped that term ages ago because it's stupid as hell and builds on the "us vs them" mentality
2. you're calling a Ridley supporter a "too bigot"
3. he's right

I know he is

I didn't realize he was talking about melee intro Ridley

It's definitely impossible to tell his true size in that.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

There was also the detractor culture and such that referred to us as Ridtards, so if we're gonna fairly call it out, the name calling got bad on both sides, but yeah, toobigot needs to stop being used now. Already its use has only divided us.

Yeah, Proteus Ridley without the remaining half of its cybernetics would look good even for a remake of the classic Super design. The wingspan is perfectly reasonable IMO, and so is the neck which at least isn't that silly looking pencil neck but more that of a vulture. The arms and legs could be shorter though, yeah, but if he's more hunched over in a fighting stance or moves on all 4's, then it's whatever, and that would just leave his tail, which if made shorter or not, could prolly just be curled around his backside accordingly as opposed to sticking all the way out.

 

[FunAtParties]

So let me ask something. I know Ridley can be scaled down, but what if he makes it without be scaled down. Like, he just became the first giant character in Smash, and the game was designed in a way that made this more manageable. Bigger stages with slightly higher platforms, all characters saw slight speed and jump height buffs to compensate, etc.. How would any of you feel?

 

[Zeox]

Ok but what if this was the Ridley that were made playable

(Ridley robot from Nintendo Land)

 

[Aetheri]

So let me ask something. I know Ridley can be scaled down, but what if he makes it without be scaled down. Like, he just became the first giant character in Smash, and the game was designed in a way that made this more manageable. Bigger stages with slightly higher platforms, all characters saw slight speed and jump height buffs to compensate, etc.. How would any of you feel?

Seems a bit too much of an extreme measure just to put one character into the game...having rebalance all the stages and characters around Ridley rather than the other way around...

Also something I feel the devs would never do...

 

[FunAtParties]

Seems a bit too much of an extreme measure just to put one character into the game...having rebalance all the stages and characters around Ridley rather than the other way around...

Also something I feel the devs would never do...

Extreme measure for one character sure, but he wouldn't have to be the only giant character.

I wouldn't want it personally, but I thought it was worth asking anyway.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Realistically I don't see it happening, yeah, though would be cool if it made Ridley and even some others more workable.

Ok but what if this was the Ridley that were made playable

(Ridley robot from Nintendo Land)

My reaction would be "Shoulda been Ice Ridley".

Admit it, with the current shortage of ice characters (though I'm sure Ice Climbers will be back), the aforementioned Ridley with an ice moveset would be a welcome addition.

 

[Deleted member]

Given that most people dislike his Other M design (myself included), what are people's thoughts on Proteus Ridley's design? Would you approve of it being the base of a hypothetical playable Ridley?

Oh **** yes.
But that's because I'm biased for the cyborg aspect of Proteus/Meta/Omega/etc. Ridley.

A cyborg dragon/dinosaur is just inherently awesome, as this moment proved for me back when I was but a kid.

 

[TheWozny]

So let me ask something. I know Ridley can be scaled down, but what if he makes it without be scaled down. Like, he just became the first giant character in Smash, and the game was designed in a way that made this more manageable. Bigger stages with slightly higher platforms, all characters saw slight speed and jump height buffs to compensate, etc.. How would any of you feel?

I doubt the developers have to "change the stages" for the characters, unless it's some incredibly huge, drastic change. The only way he would be playable is if he was scaled down, as I very much doubt the idea of giant characters ever appearing.

-----------------------------

I never understood why the "Olimar argument" wasn't valid (in terms of resizing), especially given things Sakurai has said about Smash 4's development (both in terms of Ridley himself, and the characters presented).

The Ridley one: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11/19/why-ridley-isnt-playable-in-smash-bros

I couldn't tell you the reference for the other statement: "Making characters as close to their main series as possible"

I understand the topic of Sakurai "flip-flopping" has been discussed before (i.e. Ryu, Villager, Pac, Mii's), but I feel that he only uses that excuse for certain games. In the Ridley article I linked, his description of what makes Ridley, well, Ridley, is in my honest opinion bs. Especially given that the very same series Ridley comes from, we have my least favorite interpretation of Samus:

Smash Zero Suit Samus:
- No denying the sexual innuendos and things she says during taunts
- Has a whip
- Jet Boots

I find it ironic that in an attempt to preserve Ridley's character, the devs very blatantly ignored that Samus herself was represented poorly (even Power Suit Samus is represented not the best, in my opinion). Instead of ZSS being a stoic, silent character that has to rely on a simple weapon and her bare-hands, you have an overtly sexual character that uses many weapons she never even had. If it was Palutena, I wouldn't be mad; her character is sexual all the time, but doing it with Samus...

I understand Smash isn't canon, but if I was the developer, I would seek to preserve the identity of characters to the best of my abilities. That is too say, Smash should be canon when it comes to an identity (i.e. the behavior of the character and what weapons they use), but not in terms of secondary factors.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Ok but what if this was the Ridley that were made playable

(Ridley robot from Nintendo Land)

I'd legit love it as a boss of some sort, imagine the chaos if it's revealed before anything regarding the actual Ridley is.

 

[Bravetriforcer]

I'd legit love it as a boss of some sort, imagine the chaos if it's revealed before anything regarding the actual Ridley is.

I would legitimately have no idea how I would take that.

 

[IronTed]

I'd legit love it as a boss of some sort, imagine the chaos if it's revealed before anything regarding the actual Ridley is.

I think that would really mess with a lot people, myself included. I wouldn't really know what to make of it.

But if it actually made it into the game, it should be Ice Ridley.

 

[Lolo Lolo]

Hi there fellow Space Pirates ^^
Sorry if I swoop in here like this but I don't have so much time lately (since the 5mash reveal trailer this is my first time posting in here) and I don't know how much you will see me here, but I wanted to say that Ridley is and will always be my n°1 character request!
So if you are doing one of those supporters lists I see in the other threads, count me in ^^
I'll try to stop here sometimes, but I cannot guarantee to be here as much as I used to during the ssb4 speculation times.

About our favourite purple dragon, I think something along the lines of that PM mod with a bit of Proteus Ridley (organic parts) in there could be the perfect recipe for his model.
Also I see him as the opposite of Little Mac, with some kind of gimmick that allows him to stay a lot in the air and to have a great range of trick to use like an original air grab (even tho I think you all think this already since this idea is as old as the "ridley's shadow" era... those were really dark times for us, no pun intended).
One last thing, but this is more of a personal one, I'd love to have him show more of his personality and intelligence. He already showed them in his own franchise (the Manga, Zero Mission, Other M, Samus Returns and so on) so some facial expression of pure sadism or anger could be very cool in my opinion ^^