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Predatoria

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I'm glad he's not a braindead character too. The entire reason I'm even trying to learn to be a better Smash and be a less nooby player is just because I really want to be a stronger Ridley player, which means learning a lot more.

He seems to be a relatively rare spectacle to see in online matches, at least so far in my experience.

I honestly do think a lot of people are really under-estimating Ridley as a character. I've seen some strong players do amazing things with him. He's definitely a challenging character to play.

On the topic of under-estimation, do you all put much faith in this tier list?

https://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssbu/

I don't think Ridley deserves to be #61. I surely find him much scarier than many of the other characters above him.
 
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Constantini

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Bon giorno pirates, first post.

To the above; no, Ridley's not brain-dead and requires some good spacing and patience to be good with but I also don't think he's a galaxy brain character. He probably sits right dead in the middle of character use difficulty.

As for the tier list....it's pretty irrelevant isn't it? Save for the top 10 and little mac, I find everyone else in the middle to be very even(of course, except the few specific bad matchups). The game is pretty superbly balanced. I think our space dragon could be rank 30 or 61 and it wouldn't matter

As for why he's so absent online is likely because sub 3 million gsp he can dominate hard by just short hopping and nairing all day long, past that you can't just autopilot and start getting juggled and stomped by swordies, Inklings, wolf, pichu etc. etc. I remember seeing a bunch during my climb, now that I've been sitting around 3.6 mil + I haven't seen a SINGLE one. It's mostly top tiers and for some odd reason, of all characters, there's loads of Samus players here *shrug*
 

Ridley_Prime

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Ya know seeing characters like Mewtwo or Rosalina whose playerbases got demoralized or diminished after the nerfs (even though they still got some buffs which is healthy), makes me more thankful Ridley got added when he did in Ultimate. I hate picturing an alternate timeline where Ridley had been added in SSB4, whether in the base game or as DLC, and had been seen as “too good” then and thusly nerfed or unfavably changed a good bit by Ultimate like a number of the verterans from then... Just unfortunate to see some characters’ candles burn dimly now with Everyone is Here, but can be glad at least Ridley is fresh and strong under the circumstances. More confident now too at least he won’t be particularly nerfed in the future after the recent patch, though anything could change.
 
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I'm glad he's not a braindead character too. The entire reason I'm even trying to learn to be a better Smash and be a less nooby player is just because I really want to be a stronger Ridley player, which means learning a lot more.

He seems to be a relatively rare spectacle to see in online matches, at least so far in my experience.

I honestly do think a lot of people are really under-estimating Ridley as a character. I've seen some strong players do amazing things with him. He's definitely a challenging character to play.

On the topic of under-estimation, do you all put much faith in this tier list?

https://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssbu/

I don't think Ridley deserves to be #61. I surely find him much scarier than many of the other characters above him.
Community voted tier lists are generally bad, there's so much bias involved, and for the most part it just takes Online play into consideration, as that's where most players get their experiences from. Ridley is far from the only bad placement on here, the worst one is Wario at #41, like how does that even happen?
 
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Predatoria

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let him be labled as bad, makes it more fun when you come up from the shadows

also here is some of my gameplay, don't remember what is on them since some is when I just started playing. looking for some tips

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj1D-KLCl9D6iXrLGmTn-bQ/
I went ahead and watched all the videos you have up on your YouTube account. I did notice a few things I think could help you out and hopefully this will be helpful.

First, I notice you open yourself up a lot. You do a lot of side smashes, in particular, and skewers or down aerial landings which grant your opponent an opening to come in and hit you. You’re also relying on side smash a lot to kill, and may be getting walled by players at higher GSP levels who are better at avoiding these. I typically try not to side smash unless there is an opening left by my opponent, such as after they’ve landed on the stage or done an attack themselves that I dodged. I don’t usually skewer unless they’re in a situation where I can punish a move, such as skewering a dedede up B landing.

You’re also not utilizing some of Ridleys strongest moves that really make up most his safe gameplay. Short hopping into neutral air is amazing, and has become my go to move when I’m not sure what else to do. Forward air is also incredible. Try watching some tournament Ridley play and you’ll see them throwing out neutral air almost every other attack. It’s wonderful. Down tilt is also a great follow up after your opponent attacks into your shield or does a move you can quickly punish that you don’t have time for a smash after.

You’re making great use of your forward tilt. I struggle with doing these, and you’re really landing a lot of them. Definitely keep that up.

You have a tendency to walk instead of sprint. Make sure you’re always running to get where you need to place yourself.

You often get punished standing too close to ledges while using plasma breath. Try backing off towards the center of the platform when they’re going to be climbing up. It’s harder for them to get to you and hit you back. Try to learn the fireball bounce so you can yourself so they bounce just past the platform edge to hit hanging players too.
 
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soviet prince

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I went ahead and watched all the videos you have up on your YouTube account. I did notice a few things I think could help you out and hopefully this will be helpful.

First, I notice you open yourself up a lot. You do a lot of side smashes, in particular, and skewers or down aerial landings which grant your opponent an opening to come in and hit you. You’re also relying on side smash a lot to kill, and may be getting walled by players at higher GSP levels who are better at avoiding these. I typically try not to side smash unless there is an opening left by my opponent, such as after they’ve landed on the stage or done an attack themselves that I dodged. I don’t usually skewer unless they’re in a situation where I can punish a move, such as skewering a dedede up B landing.

You’re also not utilizing some of Ridleys strongest moves that really make up most his safe gameplay. Short hopping into neutral air is amazing, and has become my go to move when I’m not sure what else to do. Forward air is also incredible. Try watching some tournament Ridley play and you’ll see them throwing out neutral air almost every other attack. It’s wonderful. Down tilt is also a great follow up after your opponent attacks into your shield or does a move you can quickly punish that you don’t have time for a smash after.

You’re making great use of your forward tilt. I struggle with doing these, and you’re really landing a lot of them. Definitely keep that up.

You have a tendency to walk instead of sprint. Make sure you’re always running to get where you need to place yourself.

You often get punished standing too close to ledges while using plasma breath. Try backing off towards the center of the platform when they’re going to be climbing up. It’s harder for them to get to you and hit you back. Try to learn the fireball bounce so you can yourself so they bounce just past the platform edge to hit hanging players too.

you know a good link to watch?

edit: mostly I attempt to run but a lot of times he walks instead need to practice.
 
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let him be labled as bad, makes it more fun when you come up from the shadows

also here is some of my gameplay, don't remember what is on them since some is when I just started playing. looking for some tips

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj1D-KLCl9D6iXrLGmTn-bQ/
I watched all of your videos and there's quite a lot to unpack here, there's a lot of areas I can notice could use improvement.

Defense- It's nonexistent, you're on the offense the entire time. No air-dodges, no rolls, and the only time I saw you throw up a shield throughout all of those videos was against the Ivysaur who was jumping around throwing random up airs. If you look at your fight with ROB you can notice an obvious pattern in his play-style that he kept on spamming the Arm Rotor side special and only mixing it up with the occasional tilt, so if you were paying attention to your opponent that's a scenario where you could have thrown up your shield since you know how he's going to approach and then been in a position to punish him afterwards. Instead he ends up getting rewarded for his spam because you never bother to defend against it. If you find yourself in a position where you just keep getting hit by a certain move or the opponent in general then sometimes the shield is the simple but effective solution.

Now defense doesn't stop at shielding but that's where it should begin, though try to avoid holding it as long as you did against the Ivysaur as they'll probably try to grab you if you're just sitting in shield, but there are occasions where holding it longer is the best option those are usually exceptions. Once you've learned to incorporate shields into your play then rolling is the next natural step, once you've got down rolling you can try for sidesteps which are a bit more precise, and eventually reach a stage where you can pull the occasional parry (though that's a more advanced technique that I wouldn't worry so much about for now).

Air Game- I can't say it's entirely non-existent, but it might as well be. I did see a few moments where you jump at an opponent coming down from above and that's good, you do want to be pressuring airborne opponents like that and making it as hard to land as possible, but all of the other aerials are where you fall short. Now down air can be a good surprise option if you're being chased since it can get you back to the ground quick and knock away a pursuer, but the problem is when you fall back on it as a crutch, it seems like nearly every time you are launched in the air that is your go to method to get back down. If I'm your opponent and I see you throw out a Dair every time you're above me then I'm going to deliberately get below you so I can bait it out, avoid, and punish no different then a Stone Kirby or Bowser Bomb spammer. It can be scary trying to find your way back to the ground as Ridley since he hates being juggled but try mixing up your descent with things like air-dodges, directional input, Nair and so forth. Even if it seems counterproductive to getting back on the ground, your extra jumps can be a good way to juke an opponent trying to jump in to attack.

However, your biggest weakness is the lack of any of your other aerials in your play at all. Neutral, Forward, and Back air are all useful parts of Ridley's arsenal Nair in particular is a Ridley's best friend, but you never use any of them at all, you're feet are glued to the ground the entire match. Ftilt is good for stuffing grounded approaches but what do you do against an opponent who jumps in against you with your lack of aerials and defense? They close in free, Nair is a quick fast spacing tool that's good both for spacing airborne opponents, approaching, or quick punishes since it comes out so fast. Bair can be a useful kill move and Fair has utility, but for now at your level I'd suggest trying to master Nair and then once you get that down experiment with what Bair and Fair can offer you.

Edge guarding- For you edge-guarding seems to begin and end at Plasma Breath, while that can be a valid option as seen against the Ivysaur, often times there are just far better options to keeping them off stage. The most glaring example is probably the match against the ROB about 1:16 into the match you knock him off-stage and he chooses to recover super high, yet you decide that the best way to edgeguard that was to charge Plasma Breath and when that didn't work charge an Fsmash while the ROB was still a mile above your head. If you saw him going high then the best options are to go high yourself or try to catch him on landing. Ridley has a edgeguard game and can pursue off stage with options like gimping with Nair or dragging them to the blast zone with Fair.

You don't even need to go deep off-stage if you're not comfortable with it even though Ridley can get away with it. I think a great example would be the Charizard that you fought at 1:33 into the match, the Charizard may have noticed you like to recover high and he knocked you at a more upward angle so he jumped upwards to get you, and once you were offstage and had burned your jumps the Charizard was able to take a stock by catching you with his back air, that's the sort of stuff you should take notes from and incorporate into your play. If the Charizard had gone for your tactic and busted out Flamethrower then you would have gone over his head and got back on stage free.

Recovery- Not terrible, but not great either. Main issue is that you don't mix it up a ton, if I was your opponent in one of those matches and I'm looking to edge-guard you then I'm going to be taking note that you seem to strongly favor high recoveries and if I can get a read on that then I'll be in a better position to punish you for it. Don't be afraid to mix it up and fall below the edge for a lower recovery, a lot of characters will find that more difficult to challenge. I also notice you'll aim to land on the stage itself rather than target the ledge, while this isn't always a bad move, the end lag on both is pretty notable and can leave you open to punish which is especially bad since if you're recovering is when you're most at risk of that.

What you do good here is there is a nice mix of how you choose to recover, I see both Wing Blitz and our command grab in play here, even a nice reverse Wing Blitz against the Mii Swordsman. Something I think hurts a lot of rookies is that they burn their jumps right away when they're off-stage in an effort to make it back quick but I noticed some moments in your play where you held onto your jumps and had decent spacing between the jumps which is a good trait to have.

Smashes- You throw out too many random smashes, some with zero rhyme or reason. Against Pichu I caught you throw out two FSmashes while he was sitting on the top platform and you were at ground level, and what this tells me is that you're not really putting much thought into when you throw them out. Now this one is probably going to be a harder habit to break since you're generally scoring all of your kills off Smashes then it really must feel like you're doing something right when the game rewards you with a victory screen for tossing them out, but once you enter the ring against more advanced players you'll find that's going to be harder to fly. Worst case scenario you find yourself against a Fire Emblem swordsman who sends you to the moon because they see how happy you are to throw out FSmashes at your leisure but even outside of that people will pick up and be expecting that, you want to hold onto it as a surprise option to catch them off a good read and not just hope that they run into it on their own. You had some good Smashes in there but a lot of unnecessary ones as well, though that's mostly with FSmash, you seem to use USmash as more of an anti-air option or hitting through platforms which so that's more proper utility.

You've got down the importance of spacing with ftilt which is good, but try not to neglect down tilt either. It's actually something I myself need to improve with since I fall back on ftilt spacing a lot as well but dtilt is a very effective move in its own regard. Utilt has it's applications too but where you're at I think USmash will work well enough to cover those options for you.

Specials- Some of your Plasma Breath timing and usage is fairly questionable. In four matches on Battlefield that was your go to move to start the fight, I'm not sure what you were aiming for that to do on a stage where you're opponent starts on a platform safe from the attack. I know Dark Pit an Pichu got hit by the attack but that's not because what you did was a good move, but rather because they were both just as goofy deciding that dropping through the platform for a neutral special was the optimal way to start the fight. Look at what happened when you tried it against Squirtle, he's a small character looking to get in and combo you and by charging Plasma Breath as your opening move he was able to close in and juggle you for 15% which would have been higher if it was a more skilled Pokémon Trainer. Same thing with the Swordfighter. Outside of specific edge-guarding situations, Plasma Breath is a move meant to force action and approaches, yet you occasionally try to use it against players who are right in your face. Ridley takes a lot of damage when he gets hit during his charging animation and you can see this backfire on you against ROB (the Swordfighter too but that was more quick thinking with a fast projectile on his part, that's why in many situations its best not to hold the charge for the full length).

To give an example of where I found you put Plasma Breath to better use would be the whole sequence against Ivysaur from 1:08-1:20. After perfectly spacing the Ivysaur with your disjoints you shook him up a bit and he decided to try falling back on the Razor Leaf zoning that worked for him before only to get for Plasma Breath to shut that plan down, was a good edgeguarding choice against that particular recovery and then netted yourself a kill from it. I also found it interesting that you seemed to use it as a tool to cover landings, it's not something I've really gone for but it might actually be worth trying myself.

As for our command grab, occasionally you try to throw it out as an approaching tool, and the move is not good for that. It has too slow of a startup and no armor or anything which is why just about every time you tried throwing it out to close in had you getting punished for your efforts. You generally want to save it for when you get a good read or have put your opponent more on the defensive.
 
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soviet prince

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thanks for the comment, I like to note ( not justifing it still a bad move on my part :pm ) when I was using plasma breath and the other character was above me I was trying to predict were he be at the next move.

do you know a good video to watch?

Yeah I am not as smart as you guys :p, i try to shield but it seems like it always to late and i get hit anyway before it comes up, as far as kills i don't know how to get kills better then with my side a smash.
 

Cosmic77

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No one should even pay attention to community tier lists IMO. Literally every time we get a powerful character with a low learning curve (Roy, K. Rool, etc.), the first reaction is, "Woah! We're looking at the next top tier king, boys!" Then that character is available to the public for a few months, his weaknesses are exploited, and the people who once claimed he was top tier act like they have no idea what you're talking about when you point out how much they overestimated said character.
 

Cutie Gwen

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No one should even pay attention to community tier lists IMO. Literally every time we get a powerful character with a low learning curve (Roy, K. Rool, etc.), the first reaction is, "Woah! We're looking at the next top tier king, boys!" Then that character is available to the public for a few months, his weaknesses are exploited, and the people who once claimed he was top tier act like they have no idea what you're talking about when you point out how much they overestimated said character.
I mean tbf Roy is considered really good in this game
 

Predatoria

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Cosmic77

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I mean tbf Roy is considered really good in this game
I was mainly referring to Smash 4 when virtually everyone, Zero included, played Roy for 5 minutes and decided that he was top tier. Three months later, after receiving virtually no buffs or nerfs, he's bottom tier and deemed unfit for competitive play.
 

slamallama

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I was mainly referring to Smash 4 when virtually everyone, Zero included, played Roy for 5 minutes and decided that he was top tier. Three months later, after receiving virtually no buffs or nerfs, he's bottom tier and deemed unfit for competitive play.
Same thing happened this time around with Chrom. Game came out and ZeRo declared Chrom to be the best swordsman, and now two months later he's saying Roy is better, with the only update being Chrom's spike on his up-b getting changed. This is why I don't listen to pros or tier lists at all and just play who I want. Doesn't matter if Ridley's in sixth place or sixtieth on some arbitrary tier list, he can still win against anyone if you know what you're doing. (I'll also point out that list counts Roy and Chrom separately but Marth and Lucina as the same fighter, so I'm even less convinced whoever made it knows what they're talking about)
 
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Predatoria

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Same thing happened this time around with Chrom. Game came out and ZeRo declared Chrom to be the best swordsman, and now two months later he's saying Roy is better, with the only update being Chrom's spike on his up-b getting changed. This is why I don't listen to pros or tier lists at all and just play who I want. Doesn't matter if Ridley's in sixth place or sixtieth on some arbitrary tier list, he can still win against anyone if you know what you're doing. (I'll also point out that list counts Roy and Chrom separately but Marth and Lucina as the same fighter, so I'm even less convinced whoever made it knows what they're talking about)
I will also add that the matchups for Ridley don't really feel like my personal experience with fighting either friends in real life, or 1v1s online, though I admittedly have zero tournament experience.

One of the characters I'm actually struggling with most right now matchupwise is Jigglypuff, who Eventhub shows Ridley having a 5.1 favorable match with (one of his very few favorable matches, I might add).

One of Ridley's worst matchups, according to the site, is Chrom. I'm never worried when I face Chrom. A swift toss off the edge and he's done for.

I'm definitely not scared of Ganondorf either, who Ridley also apparently has a 4.9 matchup against according to the site. He's plasma breath food.

I do have trouble with Pikachu, Pichu, Simon/Richter, and Inkling, so those do seem like reasonable placements.

Krool doesn't seem particularly bad, unless it's on a map like Final Destination where I can't get any positioning against his crown and blunderbuss spam.
 
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I will also add that the matchups for Ridley don't really feel like my personal experience with fighting either friends in real life, or 1v1s online, though I admittedly have zero tournament experience.

One of the characters I'm actually struggling with most right now matchupwise is Jigglypuff, who Eventhub shows Ridley having a 5.1 favorable match with (one of his very few favorable matches, I might add).
I remember my first time going against Jigglypuff, I ended up got bodied feeling like it was a helpless losing matchup, but I ended up being able to adapt and start turning it around so that I was taking a lot of the victories in the rematches. Jigglypuff is scary not just because we're a large target for rest, but because Ridley is very vulnerable to combos and it feels like all Jigglypuff needs is one hit to string together a chain of aerials to take you into the blast-zone.

However in our favor is the fact that we hit hard and she's light as a feather, and if she does something like whiff rest then that usually means we've got a free kill or at least a free Skewer if she wasn't damaged enough prior. However, more in our favor is just how much we can outspace her with disjoints which makes can make it a pain for her to get in.

The main thing that helped me against Jigglypuff is the realization that I didn't need to be aggressive against her. Jigglypuff has high air speed so if you're jumping at her and she's jumping at you then it's going to be harder for you to time your spacing and easier for her to land blows. However, Jigglypuff has nothing to threaten you with from a distance, you can just sit back and wait for her to come to you and there's really nothing she can do about it. Be patient and anticipate her approach and then when she comes in you can start stuffing her air game with UTilt, USmash, angled Ftilt, Fair, or Nair and you can even throwing in some slight backwards DI on your aeriels and such and Jigglypuff to make it even harder for her to get in. It's a scary game since she has the tools to drag us to an early grave if we slip up but we have the options to not make that so easy.
 
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Predatoria

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I remember my first time going against Jigglypuff, I ended up got bodied feeling like it was a helpless losing matchup, but I ended up being able to adapt and start turning it around so that I was taking a lot of the victories in the rematches. Jigglypuff is scary not just because we're a large target for rest, but because Ridley is very vulnerable to combos and it feels like all Jigglypuff needs is one hit to string together a chain of aerials to take you into the blast-zone.

However in our favor is the fact that we hit hard and she's light as a feather, and if she does something like whiff rest then that usually means we've got a free kill or at least a free Skewer if she wasn't damaged enough prior. However, more in our favor is just how much we can outspace her with disjoints which makes can make it a pain for her to get in.

The main thing that helped me against Jigglypuff is the realization that I didn't need to be aggressive against her. Jigglypuff has high air speed so if you're jumping at her and she's jumping at you then it's going to be harder for you to time your spacing and easier for her to land blows. However, Jigglypuff has nothing to threaten you with from a distance, you can just sit back and wait for her to come to you and there's really nothing she can do about it. Be patient and anticipate her approach and then when she comes in you can start stuffing her air game with UTilt, USmash, angled Ftilt, Fair, or Nair and you can even throwing in some slight backwards DI on your aeriels and such and Jigglypuff to make it even harder for her to get in. It's a scary game since she has the tools to drag us to an early grave if we slip up but we have the options to not make that so easy.

I definitely haven't yet tried the matchup with this mindset. It's been her floaty, small-statured nature and ability to brutally combo me off the edge of the blast zone midair that has been giving me troubles.

One of the reasons I was being aggressive in my matches against various puffs is because they'd often start hopping over my plasma breath. I guess I neveer had the realization I could choose to sit back and wait rather than charge in towards them. Usually I'll try to make myself difficult to get to for characters I can heavily punish with plasma, such as Ganondorf, Bowser, the swordsmen, or other heavily melee characters where good positioning and smart use of plasma bursts can rack up easy percent. I'm usually very aggressive against characters I don't want to be zoned by, such as Samus, Palutema, or other characters with lots of ranged options that can outdo my own, hopping and weaving through their stuff to try and land neutral airs from above or coming in from a diagonal. I haven't ever actually tried sitting back and jigglypuff come to me, but you're right, they're zero threat at range.

I'll try it. Both my brother and cousin love playing Jigglypuff, so it's a matchup I do seem to encounter rather frequently. Thanks for the tip!
 

soviet prince

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tried to be more defensive but did not perform as well as my aggressive approach ( though trying to lean to incorporate shiledind in more to make it second nature) which is more my playstyle and it's what i picture to be more ridley like then being defensive. it says my win percent over last 50 is 60% which don't sound to good
 

Porygon2

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Same thing happened this time around with Chrom. Game came out and ZeRo declared Chrom to be the best swordsman, and now two months later he's saying Roy is better, with the only update being Chrom's spike on his up-b getting changed.
Don't forget that before release people were speculating that Chrom was a "joke character" because he has no horizontal recovery. Early character speculation is generally a mess that's best avoided, "pro" or not.
tried to be more defensive but did not perform as well as my aggressive approach ( though trying to lean to incorporate shiledind in more to make it second nature) which is more my playstyle and it's what i picture to be more ridley like then being defensive. it says my win percent over last 50 is 60% which don't sound to good
Learning curve my dude. How about not thinking of it as defensive, but more "calculated". Ridley did always wait for Samus to come to him...
 
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Don't forget that before release people were speculating that Chrom was a "joke character" because he has no horizontal recovery. Early character speculation is generally a mess that's best avoided, "pro" or not.

Learning curve my dude. How about not thinking of it as defensive, but more "calculated". Ridley did always wait for Samus to come to him...
Not exactly the greatest comparison since that's what most bosses in the old days did...

He's more prone to ambushing Samus in seemingly random places than fashioning himself a lair.
 

Dcas

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So here is my early impression MU chart for Ridley. Ofc this could change as time passes by.

Couple of observations:

-The Belmonts can wall ridley badly but once their offstage ridley rips them apart.
-Similar to the belmonts comes YL but he has a way better recovery, being small and agile could potentially make it a 60-40.
-Overall he has a very solid MU spread imo, even the 40-60 MUS are not even that bad, is just 60-40 because they rack damage too easily but ridley destroys fox recovery and can kill them pretty early.
-Greninja has the potential of being a 60-40, the top 2 in my country mains him. Most of greninja stuff is not confirm but on ridley everything is since ridley has massive hurtboxes. He has projectiles, disjoints, speed and confirms, making it very deadly for ridley.

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Cosmic77

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This is probably going to sound like a ridiculous question to most of you, but does anyone miss the days when Ridley wasn't in Smash? I know we tend to associate those times with the detractors and all the hate Ridley supporters had to deal with, but I have to admit, I kind of miss the traffic and activity Ridley used to have when everyone was talking about how he'd play, what he'd look like, and how big he'd be - you know, typical speculation. I miss those Ridley memes, the heated debates, and even the ridiculous trolls who kept reminding us that Ridley was too big.

I dunno. I guess the Direct is making me nostalgic. After all this time, it still feels weird not wondering if Ridley will be revealed as the next character.
 

Predatoria

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I wasn't really keeping a close eye on the topic and was never part of the scene pushing for (or against) Ridley's inclusion in Smash, but I can kind of get a general feel for how one may feel this way.

After all, it's kind of the "post-Christmas" lull I had when I was younger. You're so hyped up for something but once you get it you're like "Oh, cool" and kind of move on. The journey can often be better than the destination.

Are you happy with how Ridley turned out, Cosmic?
 

Cosmic77

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I wasn't really keeping a close eye on the topic and was never part of the scene pushing for (or against) Ridley's inclusion in Smash, but I can kind of get a general feel for how one may feel this way.

After all, it's kind of the "post-Christmas" lull I had when I was younger. You're so hyped up for something but once you get it you're like "Oh, cool" and kind of move on. The journey can often be better than the destination.

Are you happy with how Ridley turned out, Cosmic?
I couldn't be happier. I love Sakurai's interpretation of Ridley, and he's better than I ever imagined.

But the flipside to that is me knowing that the character I've wanted for nearly a decade is finally in. I don't have to bother gathering evidence or debating with other users anymore, which in a weird way, is something I want back. Almost feels like the end of an era.
 
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Do I miss the days where Ridley wasn't in Smash? Mmm... it's nostalgic, but not really.

There was a lot of thrill and strong emotions being on both the Ridley and K. Rool train for all of this time, and that has died down now that they are both in the game, but right now it's more the fact that I have no big anticipated newcomer that I'm latching onto that prevents me from getting too involved in the discussions, for me at this stage it's only some wild pipe dreams I think would be cool but am not expecting.

However, there is a benefit of being content and I feel that it's allowed me to be much more open and appreciative to the overall roster. If Ridley wasn't announced and we got an Isabelle trailer I'd be worried we still haven't heard from him that late game and Incineroar would have come with the devastating gut punch that we missed our shot once again. Now I can sort of kick back and enjoy the show without worry and Sakurai has shown he can still get me excited with surprise picks like that Piranha Plant I got a good kick out of.
 

Predatoria

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What kind of arguments did people have against Ridley? I'm not too familiar with the debate, as I admittedly am quite a latecomer to the Ridley fanclub.

I've seen many people mention he was too large to be put in-game, but this argument, at least in my opinion, didn't make much sense given Bowser is in-game, and he's absolutely gigantic, like Battlefield-sized, in some of the Mario games.

I too really enjoy how he turned out. He's a ton of fun and has a very rewarding moveset.
 
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IronTed

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There is a certain nostalgia about those days, and the memes, flame wars, and lengthy circular arguments, but I can't say I really miss it. The anticipation over what role Ridley would have was never fun either. Yeah the hype has died down, it's natural though. The traffic Ridley attracted at his prime was legendary (has any support thread gotten anywhere near 2,000 pages?) though, but even this cycle it was way less.

What kind of arguments did people have against Ridley? I'm not too familiar with the debate, as I admittedly am quite a latecomer to the Ridley fanclub.

I've seen many people mention he was too large to be put in-game, but this argument, at least in my opinion, didn't make much sense given Bowser is in-game, and he's absolutely gigantic, like Battlefield-sized, in some of the Mario games.

I too really enjoy how he turned out. He's a ton of fun and has a very rewarding moveset.
There were many, most were pretty bad though. The best was his lanky proportions and the issues those presented, but most were a stretch. Like "he'd be a Charizard clone" or "he'd suck" or "he'd be OP". I'm sure others here can come up with more.
 

Lore

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It was almost entirely due to him being too big. He was originally intended for Melee iirc, but Sakurai cut him for that reason.

Since then, he was continually argued to be too big. It made zero sense, as you have said.

Also hi! I enjoy this character, mostly due to Metroid love. Bowser is my usual heavy, but Ridley is fantastic.
 

Predatoria

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Source? Because I don't think this is true.
https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11/19/why-ridley-isnt-playable-in-smash-bros

That's the quote I've seen brought up in many places.
It was almost entirely due to him being too big. He was originally intended for Melee iirc, but Sakurai cut him for that reason.

Since then, he was continually argued to be too big. It made zero sense, as you have said.

Also hi! I enjoy this character, mostly due to Metroid love. Bowser is my usual heavy, but Ridley is fantastic.
Welcome! I enjoy playing Bowser as well.

There is a certain nostalgia about those days, and the memes, flame wars, and lengthy circular arguments, but I can't say I really miss it. The anticipation over what role Ridley would have was never fun either. Yeah the hype has died down, it's natural though. The traffic Ridley attracted at his prime was legendary (has any support thread gotten anywhere near 2,000 pages?) though, but even this cycle it was way less.



There were many, most were pretty bad though. The best was his lanky proportions and the issues those presented, but most were a stretch. Like "he'd be a Charizard clone" or "he'd suck" or "he'd be OP". I'm sure others here can come up with more.
I already feel the itching need to refute:

He'd be a charizard clone: Well, what about Peach and Daisy, half the Fire Emblem characters, or the fact we have 3 Links!

He'd Suck / be OP: Entirely up to the game designers to balance him, just as any character.
 
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This is probably going to sound like a ridiculous question to most of you, but does anyone miss the days when Ridley wasn't in Smash? I know we tend to associate those times with the detractors and all the hate Ridley supporters had to deal with, but I have to admit, I kind of miss the traffic and activity Ridley used to have when everyone was talking about how he'd play, what he'd look like, and how big he'd be - you know, typical speculation. I miss those Ridley memes, the heated debates, and even the ridiculous trolls who kept reminding us that Ridley was too big.

I dunno. I guess the Direct is making me nostalgic. After all this time, it still feels weird not wondering if Ridley will be revealed as the next character.
I do not. After Brawl's release, there were two characters I heavily devoted time to supporting, Ridley and Roy. I also really wanted to see Mega Man in and Mewtwo to return, but there was far less detractors for those two characters so there was no need to really speak up for them.

Ridley in particular was a character that seemed like he should have been added for Brawl, so it really seemed like Smash 4 was going to be his time at long last (I rationalized Ridley not making Brawl's roster as a result of so many other major Nintendo characters being ahead of him). I also supported Ridley for Melee and there was a large support base during that epoch as well (Ridley's appearance during the E3 2001 trailer for Melee made many think he was going to be on the roster). Ridley not making in onto Melee's roster was not a disappointment because I felt he had an uphill battle there since Metroid's last game was all the way back in 1994.

I felt with all the Metroid titles released between Melee and Brawl's announcement, that Ridley was likely for Brawl. Brawl confirmed so many other characters that I wanted for Smash Bros., that I was not disappointed with the roster.

I couldn't be happier. I love Sakurai's interpretation of Ridley, and he's better than I ever imagined.

But the flipside to that is me knowing that the character I've wanted for nearly a decade is finally in. I don't have to bother gathering evidence or debating with other users anymore, which in a weird way, is something I want back. Almost feels like the end of an era.
Yes, I also really like the interpretation of Ridley that Sakurai and his team came up with for Ultimate.

It is definitely the end an of era with Ridley's (and K. Rool's) confirmation for Ultimate. Personally, I do not miss all the debates and arguing with other users though.

You need to keep in mind that just as every story has a beginning, it also has an end. I actually thought that the end of Smash 4 where Sakurai himself stated that he thought Ridley was "too big" was possibly the end to that story (the story of Ridley's journey to Smash Bros.'s roster). As a matter of fact, after Roy's confirmation as Smash 4 DLC in June 2015, I had only made two more posts after June 2015 (until my return on April 2018). You should be grateful that Sakurai did a 180 on Ridley so soon. It is frankly a very big miracle that Ridley was added to Ultimate, a game developed very soon after Smash 4 and had very few newcomers in it (if you told me those parameters about Ultimate before Ridley's confirmation, I would have been even more pessimistic on Ridley's prospects than I already was going into E3 2018).

Aside from Ridley, Ultimate gave me many things I never expected to happen in a Smash Bros. title after Smash 4. Every veteran returning. And Castlevania joining the roster (since the "core"/"Smash bubble" did not seem to care at all about that series or talk about it). Ironically, the only thing that did not happen with the roster that I personally hoped for was Dixie Kong, which was probably the only thing among all the ones I listed that most speculators thought, prior to Ultimate's announcement, had a realistic chance of happening.

Ultimate basically realized so many dreams I had for the series that I thought would never be realized.

The only character left I feel a real passion for that is not yet in is Dixie Kong. Honestly, I do not feel like sticking around for another speculation period (Ultimate post-DLC) just for her. I am getting older, and I have a lot less free time. After Roy's confirmation for Smash 4, I basically left for three years. Ultimate happening the way it did (and being announced so soon after the conclusion of Smash 4 DLC) was the primary reason why I am even as active as I am right now.

I am posting less and less now that the game has been released. However, I do want to put out a Dixie Kong essay in support of the character that fans of the character can use for the next speculation cycle.

It was almost entirely due to him being too big. He was originally intended for Melee iirc, but Sakurai cut him for that reason.

Since then, he was continually argued to be too big. It made zero sense, as you have said.

Also hi! I enjoy this character, mostly due to Metroid love. Bowser is my usual heavy, but Ridley is fantastic.
Ridley was not planned for Melee or any other games prior to Ultimate. Sakurai clarified after Smash 4's release though that the reason Ridley was not playable yet was due to size and scaling issues. Sakurai actually said in a recent interview that Ridley was among the most challenging characters he made.

There is a certain nostalgia about those days, and the memes, flame wars, and lengthy circular arguments, but I can't say I really miss it. The anticipation over what role Ridley would have was never fun either. Yeah the hype has died down, it's natural though. The traffic Ridley attracted at his prime was legendary (has any support thread gotten anywhere near 2,000 pages?) though, but even this cycle it was way less.
.
The journey with Ridley was truly legendary indeed. Ridley and K. Rool were in a league of their own. There really has not been a character that is up to their level in terms of both popularity and historical importance to their franchises left. Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, and Toad/Captain Toad/Toadette are the only major side characters left to be included in my opinion. However, most of the "Smash bubble" core does not seem to have much passion for them for whatever reason.

It is still incredible to me that we got a title where not only both of them got confirmed, but we also got every veteran back as well as Castlevania. It is truly amazing.
 

IronTed

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https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11/19/why-ridley-isnt-playable-in-smash-bros

That's the quote I've seen brought up in many places.

Welcome! I enjoy playing Bowser as well.



I already feel the itching need to refute:

He'd be a charizard clone: Well, what about Peach and Daisy, half the Fire Emblem characters, or the fact we have 3 Links!

He'd Suck / be OP: Entirely up to the game designers to balance him, just as any character.
They already clarified, but I wasn't referring to why Ridley wasn't in Sm4sh, but if it was true he was planned for Melee (which he wasn't).


Most of those arguments only existed to supplement the Too Big argument. But on their own they were stretches (the Charizard clone one makes zero sense, Ridley doesn't even has Charizard's body-type).
 

Ridley_Prime

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But teh clawz and fire breath! There's no way you can make characters with those different! If not a Charziard clone, Ridley would be a Bowser with wings!

Yeah, the unsubstantiated comparisons made me all the more glad Ridley's default special was somewhere of a mix of the classic NES and Super Metroid style fireballs, instead of another generic flamethrower. Ridley's other specials were bound to be different no matter what, but y'know, is good there wasn't a single similar special move to Bowser/Charizard like that for those people to feed off of.

Yeah, Dixie Kong, Captain Toad (or just any Toad), and Bandana Dee are the only iconic 1st party Nintendo characters left to add (Dixie in particularly I really wanted after K. Rool), but none of them I'm attached to enough for me to get emotionally invested in another future game's speculah period, so it's still liberating to feel free of that with our boys finally added. Anticipating a direct or E3 or something without having to wonder if Ridley will get shown is still taking some getting used to admittedly, but I definitely wouldn't go back to those days. Can understand being nostalgic for it, but everyone whose gotten a long awaited character or pretty much every character they really wanted tends to go through this phase at first which is natural.
 
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soviet prince

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about to give up on ever getting good, i played hundreds of hours of this game and still getting beat by small fish just got 2-1 by a 300,000 ridley and i am willing to bet he has not even played him close to what i got and apparently still better then me. finally built my way up to 1 million but down again to 300,000 climbing that mountain and pushed back to start every time i get close to the top. The gps system is garbage and unfair how is it i only gain 100,000 a win but one loss to a guy I beat 3 times in a row loses me 300,000 all that time wasted after one loss, the repercussion is to harsh and does not give very much reason to rematch.

I dont expect to be on zero's level but i at least expect to be good, hell i dont know if i pass for decent, it's very frustrating trying so hard and seeing 0 improvements.

also sidenote: why was there been online wins that did not give me any gps and the losser dont lose any either?
 

Ultomato

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about to give up on ever getting good, i played hundreds of hours of this game and still getting beat by small fish just got 2-1 by a 300,000 ridley and i am willing to bet he has not even played him close to what i got and apparently still better then me. finally built my way up to 1 million but down again to 300,000 climbing that mountain and pushed back to start every time i get close to the top. The gps system is garbage and unfair how is it i only gain 100,000 a win but one loss to a guy I beat 3 times in a row loses me 300,000 all that time wasted after one loss, the repercussion is to harsh and does not give very much reason to rematch.

I dont expect to be on zero's level but i at least expect to be good, hell i dont know if i pass for decent, it's very frustrating trying so hard and seeing 0 improvements.

also sidenote: why was there been online wins that did not give me any gps and the losser dont lose any either?
The gsp system is broken. Most people I know get their favourite characters in Elite Smash for bragging rights, never touch them again in fear of some bull**** gsp drop. After that they stick to Arena's, which are WAY more fun and WAY better to improve since you know the rules, know the players and get character variety.

I trained my other main, Ivysaur, this way and even though I usually beat my buddy, who had half the roster in Elite Smash, I was kicked out after 2 matches and got stuck in 3,5 million gsp hell.

Tldr; Arena's are a much better way to improve and gsp says nothing about your skill.
If you want to spar with me in an arena some time, Just message me. I'll be free after 19:00 Dutch time on most days. It's 11:30 Dutch time right now, if you want to calculate when that is wherever you live.
 

Dcas

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about to give up on ever getting good, i played hundreds of hours of this game and still getting beat by small fish just got 2-1 by a 300,000 ridley and i am willing to bet he has not even played him close to what i got and apparently still better then me. finally built my way up to 1 million but down again to 300,000 climbing that mountain and pushed back to start every time i get close to the top. The gps system is garbage and unfair how is it i only gain 100,000 a win but one loss to a guy I beat 3 times in a row loses me 300,000 all that time wasted after one loss, the repercussion is to harsh and does not give very much reason to rematch.

I dont expect to be on zero's level but i at least expect to be good, hell i dont know if i pass for decent, it's very frustrating trying so hard and seeing 0 improvements.

also sidenote: why was there been online wins that did not give me any gps and the losser dont lose any either?
First and foremost, playing quickplay is extremely frustrating 90% of the time, you wont improve only playing online. There are a lot of stuff that is very hard to punish online, like inklings roller, offline you can easily shield and react, online is way harder. Everyone just plays super campy and just cheesy strats that are hard to punish due to lag, and im talking about high elite.

Ill suggest you trying to play offline, if thats not possible go to random arenas. Arenas are the best option if you just cant play offline. Also save your replays and analize what you did wrong.


You had this match, you just lost your patience. You always tried to approach with an atack, villager cant really punish shield, you had to shield wayyyy more, dash in shield, dash out shield, and so on. Then retreat shoot fireballs and so on, the idea is to force the neutral in mid/far range, but overall you had to play wayyy more defensive and just atack when an opening was found. But you barely used shield vs villager and thats very important since he is very slow and his grab sucks so he cant really deal very well with shields.

Just playing more defensive would have won you the match imo. If you are having hard time vs zoners, just add another secondary to cover those MU.
 
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IsmaR

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Foreword - This is an annoying MU that's weird to describe. I played Villager as a secondary in both 4 and a bit in this game, don't think it's easy for either side.

That said, I thought as a whole, you did great when you managed to keep composure, stay mobile/in their face and out of Villager's optimal zoning range (right in front of/slightly above them). BC is good at adapting, so he quickly got the hang of things after first game (for a lack of a better term, would not let you breathe).

Individual points -
  • Your parrying/punish game was on point. I don't need to say how sick those F-smash kills were, but I will anyway.
  • First game you played extremely well to the stage.
  • Defensive-wise, I think you do pretty well, but a nitpick I had was you rely too much on perfect shield/dropping shield quickly. Opponents with fast options will punish that a lot, and you ate a lot of damage from parrying first hit of of Lloid Rocket or a spaced slingshot.
  • Ridley's disadvantage is unfortunate given his size, and I realize when I say trying to stay out of the way is easier said than done. Little things, like staying mobile (jumping higher/mixing up your recovery, doing feints with air dodge/dash dancing, etc.), crouching, or trying to beat out moves with his disjoints/tail (F-tilt/D-tilt/N-air are good for clanking with projectiles) can help if you get used to them.
  • I think your off stage game wasn't bad, but Ridley is probably one of the best on preying on predictable/defenseless recoveries, and I feel like it's vital to go for edgeguards on Villager. On stage, you got the down-angled F-tilt and fireball spam part down. Off stage N-air, F-air, B-air, Side B if you're predicting their air dodge (Ridley has magnets for hands, people will get sucked in) and down/back angled Up B are all awesome moves for this.
  • Wasn't really much I could say about general neutral, though I do think your style would benefit from some more dash-canceled down tilt, fast-fall F-air, and more grabs. Even if they don't do as much damage or lead to following ups as well as say N-air, U-tilt or F-tilt, they're great for positioning/getting characters off stage.
  • As far as out of shield options, you tried jab and up tilt a lot, which aren't bad. But I would suggest fading backwards with N-air and down tilt might be a bit better for characters that don't play as rushdown-heavy, and prefer trying set up (the tree, bowling ball, Lloid Rocket, etc.).
I'd have more to say but most of this is off the top of my head. It's harder for me to say because I've obviously not fought an opponent of this clout.

I have a couple of good replays against some decent Villager I fought recently, might upload them soon to see how I stack up.
 
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