Looking for advice against Sheik...

[Excel_Zero]

Just as the title says... I have problem with Sheik. She owns my Peach with her superior speed and mobility and sometimes I am stuck in a circle, not knowing what to do. I am not very bad myself with Peach, and can hold my ground against lots of other characters, but this is the matchup I need help with the most.

Any advice would be kindly appreciated, but I'm looking for intelligent and helpful advice, not something like "ZOMG DO TEH DOWNSMASH YOU N0OB!!!"... seriously if I were looking for advice like this I would go ask my mom instead. >.>

I'm looking for advice in general, like what to do when fighting her, where to counterpick etc.

 

[t0m0]

Well im guessing sheiks needles tend to give you a pretty big problem, but all you can really do about her needles is sheild against them, or throw some of those good ol fashioned turnips at her. Sheik will also try and get in close for a grab, and those annoying tilts. So just wait for a good approach, and make your move.

 

[Dark.Pch]

In this fight I tend to use turnips alot. Follow up fast after you use it. Its good to recatch them as well. Best to go with a turnip in your hand to sheik.

Try not to stay in one place to much and roll alot. And DI away from her Tilts and Dthrows. if she comes in and Dthrows you and you DI away, next that will follow up is a F-air so when it comes Jam the stick to shiek so when you get hit, it wont send you flying that far.

Use lots of grabs. Dont Dash attack so much. Peach has good grab combos on sheik. Mix up the grabs and Dash attacks to throw them off. Tech chashing shiek is good too.

When you get her off the edge, here is a simple edge guard to send her to her death. Grab the edge. Now she cant go for the edge so he has no choice but to land on the stage. once you see that, get up and just Dsmash. It sends her right back out. Repeat if she is still able to hit the stage till she is K.O or is no longer to make it.

Be patient She is faster than you. Just watch out for how they react to your moves. and donw Dsmash so much unless you know it will hit. cause you can get punished for that.

If they decided to get neddle happy, Float over them she cant hit you with them in the air for they dont go straight in the air.

Jab to grabs, jab to Dtilts, Jab to Dsmash. these work well.

When you are FC and doing air attacks be careful. Sheiks F-air can take you out from the skies, so dont be predictable with it.

Also attacking and wavedash out of the shield works well to punish her blocked moves or mistakes.

Here is a List of FC combo you can do on shiek and others as well But Players like Marth and both links can shoot you down from the sky so be careful when doing it. Be fast.

Basic Peach combo, turnip to FC Fair. You can also FC to N-air after you throw it. Or mindgame the person and land and grab them quickly.

If they block your F-air, if you spaced it well, you can abuse the shield stun and grab them. here is a list of what you can do sir:

FC > Fair

FC > Nair

FC > Dair > Nair.

FC > Dair > Uair.

FC > Dair >Fair. Its hard to pull off you have to time it

If they shield:

FC >Nair > Dsmash

FC > Dair > Dsmash

FC > Nair > Grab

FC > Dair > Nair > Grab

FC > Dair > Nair > Dsmash (eats I belive half of thier shield if they block it all. the Downsmash might hit though.)

You can also jab to a grab or jab to a Dsmash after these FC combos. You can do have of the combo and Jab to grab or Dsmash. Mix it up to keep your enemy guess.

 

[Arsenal Russell]

dtilt sets up alot of combos and dont try to camp cuz they out camp u

 

[chef-hado]

on recovering, if you try to parasol in they will eat you alive withthe good ol' fair. sheik's bair also stays out for a long time, and has very good range that you might not expect, so watch out during aerial recovery, especially if you parasol early because you're out of jumps. sheik also has crazy good ability to crouch cancel, so if you see her trying to do that punsh herwith the good ol' dsmash. don't get grabbed, sheik has a variety of things to do to you after a grab and it will damage you ghetto hard, so just don't get grabbed. turnips are good to put her off her game, because all sheiks have one thing they abuse most - speed. so if you feel really pressured try to get a way and pull out a turnip, if you can they can't just try to rush in anymore. overall, just play smart and be, imo, slightly more defensive than usual. sheiks will try to put you in their game, a game of speed, and you'll definitely lose in that. play smart and use your FC aerials and turnips accordingly. also, if you get a good powerful dsmash (one with 5 hits) they will back off A LOT so abuse their crouch cancel.

 

[dark_child]

ok im completely new so .. i don't know the terminology.. but i keep seeing "FC" in most topcis of peach i research, yet i haven't found an answer to it.. Those combo's mentioned look interesting to try out but can someone tell me what FC means please? (i assume Float cancel.. but .. what do i know >> )

ex: FC > Dair > Uair.

 

[Samochan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujPiov2ROuI

^_^

Use cc into stuff like dsmash a lot against sheik's approaches other than grab obviously at lower, avoid getting grabbed via good defensive game, use turnip mindgames, combo sheik when you can, do not miss edgeguards.

Fc = Float cancel

CC = Crouch cancel

 

[Dark.Pch]

ok im completely new so .. i don't know the terminology.. but i keep seeing "FC" in most topcis of peach i research, yet i haven't found an answer to it.. Those combo's mentioned look interesting to try out but can someone tell me what FC means please? (i assume Float cancel.. but .. what do i know >> )

ex: FC > Dair > Uair.

FC= Float cancel

N-air= Netrual Air

U-air = Up air

D-air= Down air

B-air= Back air

F-air = Foward air

 

[Pink Shinobi]

Hmmm, sometimes some sheiks like to be sneaky and try to CC part of the downsmash to get flung to the other side of the stage. Is it not safer to do a FC'd nair or bair againts this kind of sheik?

 

[einthesuperdog]

NOOOOO don't give this guy^ advice, he doesn't need it! He already pwns my sheik hella badly.

Edit:
Also, with regards to what chef-hado said, sheik's CCing isn't a vital part of her game like say samus, and any half intelligent sheik won't be CCing against a peach. We all know how that ends...with sheik in tears.

 

[Samochan]

NOOOOO don't give this guy^ advice, he doesn't need it! He already pwns my sheik hella badly.

Edit:
Also, with regards to what chef-hado said, sheik's CCing isn't a vital part of her game like say samus, and any half intelligent sheik won't be CCing against a peach. We all know how that ends...with sheik in tears.

We all know intelligent cc'ing ends with peach crying a river. >_> Just ask Marth that cc's peach's aerials and stuff into tipper fsmashes. <_<

Seriously, well timed cc into her slap or even her aerials not her fair open up possibilities for anything you want to do. You can do your own jab into fair or grab thingies, grab straight, ftilt or dtilt, dsmash, upsmash for the KO, dash attack, even aerials. Just cause sheik's dsmash might not be as good as peach's doesn't mean sheik doesn't have a mean cc. Peach has a lot less reliable options at cc'ing. CC'ing is vital to anyone's play, regardless of which character you play as.

But anyways, if he pwns your sheik badly enough and comes here looking for advice and is confused about the term fc even and said he's completely new, then I think you're in need of practice as well.

 

[einthesuperdog]

Well I certainly agree that I am in need of practice and will continue to need it, but aren't most of us? I think you don't give Pink Shinobi enough credit because of his low post count and self-proclaimed "newness." He has quickly become very skilled at the game and is merely trying to improve himself just like anyone else on smashboards.

With regards to CCing, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a "well timed" CC more akin to smash DI in that you are affecting your knockback at the moment of impact? I find that the relative weakness in sheik's CC lies not in the opportunities that it results in, but the nature of sheik's weight and traction. At any considerable percentage, say around 40% or more, she will often be sent flying too far to exact any counter attack. While I admit that I may have overstated myself by saying it isn't a "vital" part of her game because it is indeed useful, I maintain that the character of her CC makes it a less attractive option. More often a sheik will be attempting to dodge it altogether or shield and wavedash in order to punish. She may CC in a last ditch attempt to reduce knockback and in fact use that opportunity to counter, but characters like samus or, as you said, marth will CC with the clear intent of countering.

Hehe, anyways, sorry for this long post, I just wanted to state my position clearly. I will certainly be taking everything said here into account for when I play pink shinobi this saturday.

Edit:
I'm sorry zero fx I realize that I haven't contributed anything useful to your original question. I don't know the style of the sheik you are playing, but often times we are told to play conservatively against peach so as not to get caught in her downsmash and the like. This results in lots of needles, DDing, and Wavedancing. You should be able to use turnips to force her in close, but once she's there you've got be weary of her grabs. Once she's off the stage you can gimp kill her with an airial, but be careful because chances are she'll try to fair you as you come out. Just bait it and punish. In general you can take her to a small stage to limit her mobility, but beware of her upsmash on Yoshi's Island and FoD because it will reach through the platforms at the sweetspot. Hope this helps.

 

[Samochan]

Well I certainly agree that I am in need of practice and will continue to need it, but aren't most of us? I think you don't give Pink Shinobi enough credit because of his low post count and self-proclaimed "newness." He has quickly become very skilled at the game and is merely trying to improve himself just like anyone else on smashboards.

With regards to CCing, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a "well timed" CC more akin to smash DI in that you are affecting your knockback at the moment of impact? I find that the relative weakness in sheik's CC lies not in the opportunities that it results in, but the nature of sheik's weight and traction. At any considerable percentage, say around 40% or more, she will often be sent flying too far to exact any counter attack. While I admit that I may have overstated myself by saying it isn't a "vital" part of her game because it is indeed useful, I maintain that the character of her CC makes it a less attractive option. More often a sheik will be attempting to dodge it altogether or shield and wavedash in order to punish. She may CC in a last ditch attempt to reduce knockback and in fact use that opportunity to counter, but characters like samus or, as you said, marth will CC with the clear intent of countering.

Hehe, anyways, sorry for this long post, I just wanted to state my position clearly. I will certainly be taking everything said here into account for when I play pink shinobi this saturday.

If someone says they're new, are new to the term float cancelign which every peach player here happens to know of and are new to these forums, I do not think it's a mistake on my part to consider him newbie. >_>;;; Not to mention he's here asking for advice against sheik, so... And I also just poked at you for fun, cause the way you typed it how badly he pwns you. No need to take it seriously.

Also, cc has nothing to do with smash DI. Crouch canceling is where you reduce the knockback of some attack that can be cc'ed, if it's not a meteor or doesn't have too much knockback or hitstun. Smash DI when you use the stick and some cases c-stick to affect your trajectory during the hitstun of the move you got hit, which makes you move around during the hitstun and greatly affects your trajectory.

With sheik's traction it doesn't have anything to do with sheik's ability to cc stuff, only if it were someone like luigi or ic then the traction would affect their crouch cancel countering abilities more and they'd need to use cc into dash into stuff more cause they get pushed back more. Also peach can cc a lot of stuff to 70-80% or so and she's lightweight, sheik is heavier so I don't know where you're going with that. >_> Sheik's arms and legs are long, sheik has a very quick dash and good grab range, so sheik is able to cc good amount of stuff to 70-80% or so, depending of the actual attack. Also it's very good to mix up and not always dodge, even when sheik's dodges and overall evasion skill is very good. Baiting someone to attack with something crouchcancelable and then punishing with a combo that takes a stock is imo, quite effective, moreso than not getting hit and opponent getting away without your punishment and still is in position to predict what you're gonna do next or where you're gonna evade. Samus relies on cc to more extent than many other characters do, but that's where her strenght lies. Sheik has many strenghts and in overall is a flexible characer, so it would be a shame to not use sheik's cc since it's good. I do think learnign how to cc things may be more vital to some characters than others, but it is a reliable way to punish something with every character and thus vial for every player to learn.

Edit: Peach's highest part of her upsmash is not the sweetspot part, it's on her shoulders, the middle hitbox, which is also very strong.

 

[einthesuperdog]

*sigh* I'm familiar with the terms, and I never said that CCing wasn't useful. I merely maintain that it isn't vital. As you said, she is a highly flexible character and one must make use of all her options. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on how useful it really is. The tip of sheik's upsmash is definitely the sweetspot, you get that cool slashing sound which is so satisfying. And I don't get owned by Dark Child, I get owned by Pink Shinobi. Frankly I took offense at the patronizing tone of your post. If i was reading too much into it then I apologize. Anyways if I sound aggravated it's because I have class in 20 minutes and I havn't finished my homework! gotta run.

 

[Dark.Pch]

If someone says they're new, are new to the term float cancelign which every peach player here happens to know of and are new to these forums, I do not think it's a mistake on my part to consider him newbie. >_>;;; Not to mention he's here asking for advice against sheik, so... And I also just poked at you for fun, cause the way you typed it how badly he pwns you. No need to take it seriously.

Also, cc has nothing to do with smash DI. Crouch canceling is where you reduce the knockback of some attack that can be cc'ed, if it's not a meteor or doesn't have too much knockback or hitstun. Smash DI when you use the stick and some cases c-stick to affect your trajectory during the hitstun of the move you got hit, which makes you move around during the hitstun and greatly affects your trajectory.

With sheik's traction it doesn't have anything to do with sheik's ability to cc stuff, only if it were someone like luigi or ic then the traction would affect their crouch cancel countering abilities more and they'd need to use cc into dash into stuff more cause they get pushed back more. Also peach can cc a lot of stuff to 70-80% or so and she's lightweight, sheik is heavier so I don't know where you're going with that. >_> Sheik's arms and legs are long, sheik has a very quick dash and good grab range, so sheik is able to cc good amount of stuff to 70-80% or so, depending of the actual attack. Also it's very good to mix up and not always dodge, even when sheik's dodges and overall evasion skill is very good. Baiting someone to attack with something crouchcancelable and then punishing with a combo that takes a stock is imo, quite effective, moreso than not getting hit and opponent getting away without your punishment and still is in position to predict what you're gonna do next or where you're gonna evade. Samus relies on cc to more extent than many other characters do, but that's where her strenght lies. Sheik has many strenghts and in overall is a flexible characer, so it would be a shame to not use sheik's cc since it's good. I do think learnign how to cc things may be more vital to some characters than others, but it is a reliable way to punish something with every character and thus vial for every player to learn.

Edit: Peach's highest part of her upsmash is not the sweetspot part, it's on her shoulders, the middle hitbox, which is also very strong.

And this is coming from the person that made me into the Peach players I am today. Mah sensei. ha ha ha!

 

[Samochan]

*sigh* I'm familiar with the terms, and I never said that CCing wasn't useful. I merely maintain that it isn't vital. As you said, she is a highly flexible character and one must make use of all her options. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on how useful it really is. The tip of sheik's upsmash is definitely the sweetspot, you get that cool slashing sound which is so satisfying.

>_>

I thought you were talking about taking peach to small stage, cause peach definitely doesn't get any advantage against sheik on small stages. More like it just hinders peach's own abilities to actually dodge sheik and sheik KO's a lot easier and platforms just help sheik to own peach even more. So I thought you meant peach's upsmash, but I read wrong, sorry. But yea, sheik's upsmash's tip is the tip of sheik's hands. And sorry for messing up Chrono and Pink, I didn't pay enough attention seemingly. <_< Too many avatars of the same peach image messed me up. x_x

But being able to cc stuff is still vital. <.<

Edit: lol Dark, but I can't tell if that's a mock or a praise. I hope for the latter.

 

[Magus420]

Even with characters with lower traction you can also CC by holding down and towards instead of straight down. For most attacks the resulting angle of knockback won't be as low to the ground so you will slide less, and you'll also ASDI a little bit towards them to keep you even closer.

 

[DoH]

I like taking Sheiks to small levels...Peach can't kill and she's going to die at like 120% from a grab if the Sheik is good at following the uair DI, but if you can kill Sheik at 70 on yoshi's that's better than having to play stupid edgeguarding games and not having her die until 170. Plus bigger stages makes it easier for her to bair/needle camp.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Edit: lol Dark, but I can't tell if that's a mock or a praise. I hope for the latter.

It was a praise you silly girl

 

[Pink Shinobi]

Well I certainly agree that I am in need of practice and will continue to need it, but aren't most of us? I think you don't give Pink Shinobi enough credit because of his low post count and self-proclaimed "newness." He has quickly become very skilled at the game and is merely trying to improve himself just like anyone else on smashboards.

Aww, you're so nice! I have no idea who u are tho (how'd you know that I was "me"). But it seemed you got bullied on this thread, lol.

NEways, nice little thread here about sheik. ^^ I'll be sure to remember what the more experienced players said about this match-up.

 

[Samochan]

Even with characters with lower traction you can also CC by holding down and towards instead of straight down. For most attacks the resulting angle of knockback won't be as low to the ground so you will slide less, and you'll also ASDI a little bit towards them to keep you even closer.

O.o I've never tought of that. *feels dumb* Sweet info, thanks. ^^

 

[Excel_Zero]

Thanks everyone!

Basic Peach combo, turnip to FC Fair. You can also FC to N-air after you throw it. Or mindgame the person and land and grab them quickly.

This is the thing I am currently having problems with. I don't know how to do it constantly. You need to do a Short Hop before throwing the turnip right? Or is there another way of doing it?

Many thanks to everyone who shared something in this thread. I would love to get a recent video of my Peach so you guys could tell what I do wrong... because the one I have is somewhat old and I wasn't playing very well...

About the counterpick stages... I'm guessing Mute City would be the best one against Sheik right?

 

[Dark.Pch]

This is the thing I am currently having problems with. I don't know how to do it constantly. You need to do a Short Hop before throwing the turnip right? Or is there another way of doing it?



About the counterpick stages... I'm guessing Mute City would be the best one against Sheik right?

Yea, short hop then throw it and Fc to a F-air. ot you can do a regular jump then throw it. just get the right hieght depending on the situation.


Thats a good stage to counter pick sheik. Any stage that makes it hard for shiek to retun is good.

 

[UnChienAndalousa]

Man I hate the Sheik matchup. I played my doubles partner in a tournament today, and he went Sheik... because he can use almost every character and wanted to mess with my matchups. It was supergay. Grabs are teh **** for Sheik, Peach doesn't seem to contain too much in the matchup.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Man I hate the Sheik matchup. I played my doubles partner in a tournament today, and he went Sheik... because he can use almost every character and wanted to mess with my matchups. It was supergay. Grabs are teh **** for Sheik, Peach doesn't seem to contain too much in the matchup.

Do you understand the match up? What does your friend do atol that gets to you?

 

[UnChienAndalousa]

Yes I understand the matchup, all the matches were within one stock. Sheik's speed advantage isn't too much fun to contend with, at some point Sheik will get a grab and **** Peach. But I probably would have won if I were better at spacing.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Yes I understand the matchup, all the matches were within one stock. Sheik's speed advantage isn't too much fun to contend with, at some point Sheik will get a grab and **** Peach. But I probably would have won if I were better at spacing.

Ya spacing is good to do here. Smash DI her F-air. when they Dthrow you. You know its coming. All sheiks love to do it. And DI her throws too.

I tend to play really fast against sheik to keep them guessing. Quick FC, Nairs for the win. Dont dash alot and have a good grab/turnip game. work on all of this and if your loseing by one stck then you should be able to own your friend.

 

[Zankoku]

What would SDIing the slap do? The teleport doesn't help a very large amount, unless you plan to SDI it down and hope for a ground tech.

 

[Dark.Pch]

What would SDIing the slap do? The teleport doesn't help a very large amount, unless you plan to SDI it down and hope for a ground tech.

What you mean slap? Her Fair? If so then it wont lancu you as fair. I have SDI the move alot. and yea I aim to the floor.

 

[Samochan]

What you mean slap? Her Fair? If so then it wont lancu you as fair. I have SDI the move alot. and yea I aim to the floor.

Well SDI fair might certainly help some, but not by much. >_> It's almost the same as just regular DI since it goes very much against the fair trajectory by pressing up and against a bit. Just regular DI is enough.