London Monthlies Pools/Teams Poll

[Fuzzyness]

This is a poll to decide whether we have pools or teams at the london monthly

pools meaning there will be no team tournament! Please give your reasons
teams meaning there will be no pools! And an additional £1/2 charge for teams, if you choose teams please state the entry cost and reasons

I do not want people to debate eachother's reasons in this thread, so just leave your reason and I will go through everything. Ignore me and take the piss then I will sort that out myself.

This also means don't quote people or trying to persuade people. Just a simple "I chose this because ____"

 

[Jolteon]

Pools until our community learns to man up.

 

[Anaky]

Teams all the way, Me and Kira will deliver.

 

[Calzorz]

teams and 2 pound entry : reason more of a share for top plaements and in teams u split anyway gives every1 alittle extra also wud be good practice for gt

 

[-BlAz3-]

Teams all the way

 

[cong]

Ahhh nvm me

-1 to pools

+1 to teams

 

[The Filth]

Not entering teams, you ******s enjoy it while I'll be off sulking, cheers.

 

[Willz]

Teams!!!

Me + Blaze got Brawl and me + Yen got MAYLAY!!!!

 

[Professor Pro]

Pools cos the community ain't ready.

And if the community votes for doubles and then the monthly is done and there isn't enough time for doubles.......doubles is permanently banned from monthlies cos the community doesn't know how to operate.

 

[Heartstring]

pools, i have no doubles partner, there will be doubles at smash gt so it can hapen then

 

[Willz]

Psyco I thought you were coming to this with a friend? Why can't you team with him

 

[Tamoo]

Teams, cos I prefer it to singles :/

And looooool Willz, love what u did there

Prof: Does that mean you're coming then? Cos personally, i think u shouldn't have voted if you're not coming cos it doesn't affect you but whatever, if you are coming, that's pretty awesome

 

[jjlinyard]

teams.....more people may be pursauded to come more often with doubles on the list.

 

[Anaky]

Wow teams prevailing victorious, so teams will happen then?

 

[Fuzzyness]

Wow teams prevailing victorious, so teams will happen then?

I'll think about it thursday night/friday morning

 

[Jolteon]

Charles, please note the following muti votes and discount them, thanks:

Teams
-BlAz3-, Andy!, Calzorz, Dopl-G, J03, J0sh, jjlinyard, Tamoo, The_Rake, Trio3, Willz, Yayuhz

 

[Jolteon]

It's a democratic vote, I'm hardly being a killjoy.

/e but yes of course lets edit our post to boost the teams votes.

 

[L-J]

Teams because it's too fun! As long as the singles (and indeed doubles if possible) bracket is seeded properly then I'd find a teams tournament much more fun than singles pools

 

[Blinky]

Pools because:
- There will not be enough time for doubles.

- The only person who's going and will enforce doubles is jo3.

- Most of the people who voted for teams are brawl players who have even less chance due to longer game times.

- London ranbats have already had questions raised about seeding, especially when it comes to "straight to bracket", pools will at least help slightly.

- This has not worked in the past.

That's only a handful of my arguements, I may add more.
I may still be able to come to this btw.

 

[Calzum!]

Pools Pools Pools

 

[Anaky]

Ohh the votes for pools have rised abit, also didnt charles say no discussions?

 

[Willz]

Yayuhz is my bros account and he plays in tourneys sometime. So Yayuhz does count **** YOU TC.

Andy! is Trios cousin as well. His Ike is really good!

 

[Professor Pro]

Pools .

 

[Fuzzyness]

next person to curse in my thread gets an infraction, its so annoying

 

[Professor Pro]

Yeah I equally get annoyed with people like Tamoo cursing in this thread.

This thread is meant to help construct the thread people, please use it in the rightful manner.

 

[Willz]

Ban Tamoo he is a bad influence on all the new players in this community!!!

 

[VA]

Pools because:
- There will not be enough time for doubles.

- The only person who's going and will enforce doubles is jo3.

- Most of the people who voted for teams are brawl players who have even less chance due to longer game times.

- London ranbats have already had questions raised about seeding, especially when it comes to "straight to bracket", pools will at least help slightly.

- This has not worked in the past.

That's only a handful of my arguements, I may add more.
I may still be able to come to this btw.

Pools and a doubles bracket are way different on time. The amount of games played is vastly different, work it out.

Potentially what, 30 entrants max for melee doubles, that's 15 teams, or a 16 man bracket.

--> Ok so that is not going to take longer than pools if it's run correctly, bracket is not the time consuming part of a tournament, POOLS are.

ALSO I think if Charles lets me help, we can run it smooth. I have command aura from warcraft 3 xD

 

[Willz]

Fuzzy should let all the TOs OoL help him (like me!)

 

[Blinky]

Pools and a doubles bracket are way different on time. The amount of games played is vastly different, work it out.

Potentially what, 30 entrants max for melee doubles, that's 15 teams, or a 16 man bracket.

--> Ok so that is not going to take longer than pools if it's run correctly, bracket is not the time consuming part of a tournament, POOLS are.

ALSO I think if Charles lets me help, we can run it smooth. I have command aura from warcraft 3 xD

Your maths is terrible. Here is the games comparisons between pools and doubles. This does not take into account delays or how people normally watch big matches. I will assume 32 players, all of which are entering teams.

Doubles
32 players means 16 teams.
Round 1: 8 initial simultanious games
Round 2: 4 winners bracket matches and 4 losers bracket matches.
Round 3: 2 winners semis and 4 losers bracket matches
Round 4: 1 winners finals and 2 losers brackets
Round 5: 2 losers brackets
Round 6: 1 losers semis
Round 7: 1 losers finals
Round 8: Grand finals

This means melee singles will be a 32 man double elimination bracket:
Round 1: 16 initial matches (can this even be done simultaniously?)
Round 2: 8 winners bracket matches and 8 losers bracket matches (see above)
Round 3: 4 winners bracket matches and 8 losers bracket matches (see above)
Round 4: 2 winners bracket matches and 4 losers bracket matches
Round 5: winners finals and 4 losers bracket matches
Round 6: 2 losers bracket matches
Round 7: 2 losers bracket matches
Round 8: losers semis
Round 9: losers finals
Round 10: Grand finals

Total rounds: 18 (minimum due to possible lack of setups)


Pools
With 32 players, I'll assume 8 pools of 4, with 2 people getting through. This means that the singles brackets will use 16 player double elimination
Singles brackets: 8 Rounds

Assuming each pool has 1 tv (underestimate)
Player 1 vs Player 2
Player 1 vs Player 3
Player 1 vs Player 4
Player 2 vs Player 3
Player 2 vs Player 4
Player 3 vs Player 4

so Pools: 6 Rounds

Total Rounds: 14 (Maximum due to possibly having more setups for pools)

Conclusion
Doing pools + singles takes less time than singles + doubles.
Brackets take ages.

 

[Anaky]

Thats true Blinky.............

 

[Crab.Man]

I vote pools

Personally i think it would be good to have more time for friendlies and money matches instead of attempting to rush doubles

 

[The Filth]

holy balls, suddenly, blinky, from the trees with maths.

 

[Fuzzyness]

2 rounds is doable tho -_- we always have spare time

 

[rustediron]

I think it makes more sense to do it in terms of number of games needed, rather than number of rounds.

Doubles
32 players means 16 teams.
Round 1: 8 initial bo3 = Min 16, Max 24.
Round 2: 4 winners bracket bo3 and 4 losers bracket bo3 = Min 16, Max 24.
Round 3: 2 winners semis bo3 and 4 losers bracket bo3 matches = Min 12, Max 18.
Round 4: 1 winners finals bo5 and 2 losers brackets bo3 = Min 7, Max 11.
Round 5: 2 losers brackets bo3 = Min 4, Max 6.
Round 6: 1 losers semis bo3 = Min 2, Max 3.
Round 7: 1 losers finals bo5 = Min 3, Max 5.
Round 8: Grand finals bo5 = Min 3, Max 10.

Total number of games: Min 63, Max 101.

This means melee singles will be a 32 man double elimination bracket:
Round 1: 16 initial bo3 = Min 32, Max 48.
Round 2: 8 winners bracket bo3 and 8 losers bracket bo3 = Min 32, Max 48.
Round 3: 4 winners bracket bo3 and 8 losers bracket bo3 = Min 24, Max 36.
Round 4: 2 winners bracket bo3 and 4 losers bracket bo3 = Min 12, Max 18.
Round 5: winners finals bo5 and 4 losers bracket bo3 = Min 11, Max 17.
Round 6: 2 losers bracket bo3 = Min 4, Max 6.
Round 7: 2 losers bracket bo3 = Min 4, Max 6.
Round 8: losers semis bo3 = Min 2, Max 3.
Round 9: losers finals bo5 = Min 3, Max 5.
Round 10: Grand finals bo5 = Min 3, Max 10.

Total number of games: Min 127, Max 197.

Pools
With 32 players, I'll assume 8 pools of 4, with 2 people getting through. This means that the singles brackets will use 16 player double elimination
Singles brackets: 8 Rounds

Assuming each pool does bo3 matches:
Player 1 vs Player 2 = Min 2, Max 3.
Player 1 vs Player 3 = Min 2, Max 3.
Player 1 vs Player 4 = Min 2, Max 3.
Player 2 vs Player 3 = Min 2, Max 3.
Player 2 vs Player 4 = Min 2, Max 3.
Player 3 vs Player 4 = Min 2, Max 3.

So for one pool: Min 12, Max 18.

Hence, for 8 pools: Min 96, Max 144.

Assuming each pool does bo1 matches:
Player 1 vs Player 2 = Min 1, Max 1.
Player 1 vs Player 3 = Min 1, Max 1.
Player 1 vs Player 4 = Min 1, Max 1.
Player 2 vs Player 3 = Min 1, Max 1.
Player 2 vs Player 4 = Min 1, Max 1.
Player 3 vs Player 4 = Min 1, Max 1.

So for one pool: Min 6, Max 6.

Hence, for 8 pools: Min 48, Max 48.

Conclusion

Teams brackets + Singles brackets = Min 190, Max 298.
Singles pools bo3 + Singles brackets = 223, Max 341.
Singles pools bo1 + Singles brackets = 175, Max 245.

That said, I'd rather we do pools. Teams in the UK is a joke, take PH2, a Bowser+DK team came third

EDIT: It's nice to know someone else is doing something useless at this hour of the morning, the number of votes for teams just went up by one.

 

[Professor Pro]

Remember you doubles voting people that if doubles is voted for and it does not happen at this event......
Doubles is permanantely banned because it should be a punishment for people still not getting their act together.

I hope pools happens anyway.

The speed of pools isn't taken into consideration though in the maths, due to them on average running quick because people know where everyone is and you literally just call them over when the game is done.

 

[The Filth]

I get the impression melee teams is a case of "Who comes up against Fuzzy/Prof the latest".

 

[VA]

Blinky I think you just got pwnt by your own maths fail. It should be done by number of games not "rounds".

Also if there are 31 people at the tournament it makes a difference to the doubles vs pools empirical debate.

To be honest, it's more practical and useful to do pools for singles. Like Hugo says there is little competition in doubles, singles pools serve much more use to the majority of the community. I just find them to be a pain and a bit of a waste.

 

[VA]

The speed of pools isn't taken into consideration though in the maths, due to them on average running quick because people know where everyone is and you literally just call them over when the game is done.

this is not strictly true, people unfamiliar with the format wander around failing to play games until the rest of the pool has finished. The pool organiser is often Chrisboi or me who only cares about finishing their games and once their done leaves the pool in the high seeds hands. They often forget they've been left in charge and don't organise the games as smoothly as possible. Then you have two lower skill players having two 8 minute games when everything has finished. I've seen it happen hundreds of times.

 

[L-J]

That said, I'd rather we do pools. Teams in the UK is a joke, take PH2, a Bowser+DK team came third

Lol I take your point but that's only because the backet wasn't seeded - ******** things happen when there's no seeding.

If everything is run efficiently there is enough time for singles bracket + either pools or doubles bracket. The only question is whether everything does run efficiently. If people help out Fuzz and he lets them help and people are made to play their matches then it will be fine either way. I'm not really that fussed - pools would be nice, but doubles is fun so meh.

 

[Jolteon]

How do you plan to seed doubles accurately? The UK is incredibly uncompetitive in doubles, usually over half the entrants are teaming together for the 1st/2nd time only and/or decided to team with each other on the day.