Lizardon Patch notes 1.10

[Bloodcross]

dthrow to bair can be a thing now.

great first post Pi AAA LOOOOOOOL

 

[Steeler]

How did you set that up @ P Pi Aaa ?

 

[Pi Aaa]

How did you set that up @ P Pi Aaa ?

TBH I don't remember and there are no recordings of it. I think he shorthopped into me (I don't remember if he threw an attack; that could have had something to do with the weird windbox interaction) and I did a dtilt, then he just flew off the stage lol

 

[AetherStorm]

dthrow to bair can be a thing now.

I tried that out as soon as I heard the news.

'Tis glorious.

 

[JCOnyx]

With the DThrow change, I've been able to land DThrow - UpAir as a true combo with bad DI and of course no DI. And if the opponent DIs away, Fair is pretty much guaranteed for quite a while.

The 50/50 I've been utilizing is Aerial Flair Blitz once they're just barely out of true combo range but still can't jump to escape. On an airdodge read, it kills incredibly early unless you're like on the opposite end of the stage. And with the delay before the move comes out and it's sustained hitbox lasting through most of the cast's airdodges, it's actually not that difficult once you get it down. It also has the benefit of armor to beat most aerial trades and still land the KO. It's been surprisingly effective.

I tried incorporating this 50/50 technique into my game in 1.09, but the frame advantage on DThrow was just barely not there. Now I feel it is. The kill options Charizard has from grabs are insane, some of the best in the game in my opinion, and this is just icing on the cake. I've never had as much fun with S4 until I switched over to Charizard as my main, this dudes a beast.

 

[TailLover]

Are you the guy on GameFAQS and Reddit who wants to have a tail irl?

/u/ILoveTails? Is that you?

Yes it is me.

and I have yet to try this patch, but I was theorycrafting that these 2 frames would make 50/50's actually a thing where before you needed to react super fast to DI and move immediately to get the 50/50, nice to hear I was right about that, can't wait to actually try it out!

Also dthrow to bair actually being a thing? SIGN ME UP!

Yoshi got a bair buff and even more Charizard buffs, this was a great patch for me

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yeah, I got grabbed by peach before frame 10's hitbox came out and we both slid across the stage for me to get bthrown and die

thx windbox

 

[EvilPinkamina]

Turns out the 2 frames of endlag removed really mattered. Dthrow > uair is more reliable, and Dthrow > bair is a thing that is possible.

 

[TailLover]

Turns out the 2 frames of endlag removed really mattered. Dthrow > uair is more reliable, and Dthrow > bair is a thing that is possible.

Charizard just keeps getting noticable buffs, if this keeps up in due time I wouldn't be surprised to see him become top tier...the spot he deserves along with Mewtwo...who is getting little buffs ;_;

 

[Shog]

I know this isn't that important, but Down Tilt also has a small animation change, too

(by god is down throw now good btw. Charizard keeps getting better and better :D )

 

[TailLover]

I know this isn't that important, but Down Tilt also has a small animation change, too

(by god is down throw now good btw. Charizard keeps getting better and better :D )

dthrow was already amazing after the last patch, hearing all this is making me want to actually play it but no console D:

Tell me dthrow stories to help fill my void, oh and bair stories because I love that move...

 

[Mightyno.M]

dthrow was already amazing after the last patch, hearing all this is making me want to actually play it but no console D:

Tell me dthrow stories to help fill my void, oh and bair stories because I love that move...

Well bair is a good mix up and there are multiple occasions where I land the sweetspot spot as the winning ko

Also secret taunt

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Bair changes are eh, but help.

Dthrow one is actually a big deal, better follow ups.

 

[TailLover]

Bair changes are eh, but help.

Dthrow one is actually a big deal, better follow ups.

they need to make bair autocancel so I can spam it fishing for kills, and also have a reason to wag his big tail over and over again.

 

[SirJuicius]

Really satisfied with the d-throw right now. I've been searching for a way to get a u-air to follow up a throw of some sort. The only thing I'd say I'm unsure of executing is d-throw to b-air.

Oh, and welcome, @ TailLover ! Good to see you've joined the boards!

 

[RadianB]

they need to make bair autocancel so I can spam it fishing for kills, and also have a reason to wag his big tail over and over again.

Use rising full hop B-Airs. They're great for edge guarding and you can do it up to 3 times without any landing lag.

 

[TailLover]

Use rising full hop B-Airs. They're great for edge guarding and you can do it up to 3 times without any landing lag.

I do that, but like, it's not as spammable as if I could do it from a shorthop you know?

Really satisfied with the d-throw right now. I've been searching for a way to get a u-air to follow up a throw of some sort. The only thing I'd say I'm unsure of executing is d-throw to b-air.

Oh, and welcome, @ TailLover ! Good to see you've joined the boards!

Thanks for the introduction, I'll try to be constructive and not just rant about my love for tails but it will be hard.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

I love how much love Char is getting in these patches.

Dtilt whiffing at point blank was one of the most annoying things ever. It was super frustrating to deal with people who rolled into you because dtilt would flat out whiff whenever you tried to hit them out of you, Good fix <3

 

[ggamer77]

I don't understand why they added a windbox instead of just making the hitbox larger or just adding another one. But whatever I guess.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

All the other heavies had windboxes. Char was starting to feel left out.

Good old daddy sakurai saw this and felt sad for char. Then, he noticed that char had a nice strong pair of wings...

...so he decided to put a windbox on Charizard's head.

The end.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Boy oh boy,zard's d throw can connect into flare blitz now. Freaking boss!

 

[Grizzlpaw]

So besides the fact that Charizard has a Hoo Hah now (ty based sakurai), Dthrow > Sinking Skull is officially a thing. It was possible before the patch, but now it's more reliable.

Dthrow > Dragon Rush true combos at certain %'s and can instagimp certain characters.


I don't know why Sakurai keeps buffing Char. I'm not certain just how bad he thought we were, but I'm not complaining

 

[Steeler]

Dthrow Fly is a thing if they DI into you

Also dthrow usmash at low percent I think

This is ridiculous

 

[charizardbro]

Dthrow Fly is a thing if they DI into you

Also dthrow usmash at low percent I think

This is ridiculous

Dthrow -> Usmash at low percent is so wonky though. They can jump out of Usmash after the first hit sometimes.

Edit: Based on the Dthrow-> Usmash combo-ing, I'm relatively certain Dthrow to perfect pivot Utilt is a true combo. I'm on 3DS so I can't do tilts out of pivots. Can someone else test it? If it works we can use Utilt as a combo extender. I tried it on 3DS on DK from 0-5% and I got nothing.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Dthrow > Nair > Regrab is an even more viable option now. For characters without a fast areal, this might be guaranteed.

We have officially become

 

[SirJuicius]

Tried d-throw to fly and it works like a charm. D-throw is incredible. @ Grizzlpaw - What characters would fall under that category of not having a fast aerial? Are you short-hopping when you input Nair?

 

[Pazzo.]

So now I can Hoo Haa with Robin, Ness, AND Charizard??

My time... Has come.

 

[Steeler]

Tried d-throw to fly and it works like a charm. D-throw is incredible. @ Grizzlpaw - What characters would fall under that category of not having a fast aerial? Are you short-hopping when you input Nair?

Depends on their DI, you may have to full hop nair if they DI up (but if they do that, you should go for uair or Fly)

I also like to RAR it because it looks cool as hell

compared to the "buffs" of the Garen rework, Sakurai looks like a ****ing genius when it comes to improving my ****ty, tanky mains

 

[dangeraaron10]

All the buffs.

All of them.

*slurps*

I'm going to try some dthrow shenanigans at my earliest convenience. I need to keep options in mind when playing on a new 3DS, the little c-nub is a godsend for certain aerials.

 

[TailLover]

Okay so I might be going to a weekly tonight, still don't know if I want too because I have other games I want to play too, but problem: I still can't play the new patch. So in case I do decide to go, can someone get like a video showing off new dthrow shenanigans I can study for all DI's and such? If not that's fine I think I have a general idea on what can be done by reading this thread, but still, always nice to have more.

 

[charizardbro]

Okay so I might be going to a weekly tonight, still don't know if I want too because I have other games I want to play too, but problem: I still can't play the new patch. So in case I do decide to go, can someone get like a video showing off new dthrow shenanigans I can study for all DI's and such? If not that's fine I think I have a general idea on what can be done by reading this thread, but still, always nice to have more.

Alright on the real, if your opponent actually DIs correctly you are going to find it difficult to land anything other than Dthrow -> Fair. If they DI up, towards you, or down and towards you, go for Uair instead. Lighter characters can DI out of Dthrow -> Fair or the timing is extremely strict. I find a lot of lighter chads barely airdodging mine. You can still benefit from baiting that airdodge though. You can get a lot more different options to combo with ****ty DI but I really wouldn't count on that for your weekly.

If they DI Fair poorly (ie. down and towards you), you can usually get a regrab, especially if you get the sour spot of fair.

I'm not sure how well Dthrow -> Nair works with DI away but it combos really well with no DI. This is useful for baiting out a punishable option from your opponent if you do it at midstage or at the ledge towards midstage though. If they try to use a quick aerial after Nair, you shield it (usually). If they airdodge, you unshield and punish. If they use their second jump, you chase their landing. This obviously doesnt work as well on characters with good escape options and movement options (ZSS, Sheik, Diddy Kong) but the rest of the cast is pretty vulnerable imo.

Dthrow combos work very well on heavy to middle weight characters when they DI away (like damn near Uair KO percent). They work at very low percents when light characters DI away. They'll work pretty darn well on just about everyone with any other DI though.

I haven't labbed any of this. This is based on my personal experience of Dthrow on Smash Ladder. I hope this helps you. Good luck at your tourney if you go and of course YMMV.

 

[UtahCharizard]

All these buffs! Keep them coming Sakurai xD

 

[AetherStorm]

All these buffs! Keep them coming Sakurai xD

All I need now is Jiggs' airspeed.

 

[Pi Aaa]

I have no clue if this happened in the previous patch, but z-axis shenanigans cause Charizard's ftilt to sweetspot point blank in Duck Hunt and Flat Zone X. :V

Dthrow buff is really nice. I still get dthrow > double jump fair at 70% on Mario even if he DIs away.

 

[Steeler]

I have no clue if this happened in the previous patch, but z-axis shenanigans cause Charizard's ftilt to sweetspot point blank in Duck Hunt and Flat Zone X. :V

+1 for Duck Hunt being a top tier Zard stage against non-campers

 

[Shog]

+1 for Duck Hunt being a top tier Zard stage against non-campers

Duck Hunt is now the best stage for Zard I think: Tree shenanigans with Up Throw, Z Axis "buffs" like this... also Flare Blitz can get Zard around.

 

[EvilPinkamina]

The irony is that other than these gimmicks, Duck Hunt is probably one of Zard's worst stages.

 

[Shog]

The irony is that other than these gimmicks, Duck Hunt is probably one of Zard's worst stages.

The way of the Zard in Smash 4 is the way of fermented dairy products:
Cheese.
Cheese your way to victory

So learning how to chees around on stages like Duck Hunt is very important.

 

[-LzR-]

Duck Hunt is bad for Zard. Town and City for life.

 

[charizardbro]

The way of the Zard in Smash 4 is the way of fermented dairy products:
Cheese.
Cheese your way to victory

So learning how to chees around on stages like Duck Hunt is very important.

I don't play Wii U but it doesn't even look like it's all that easy to Uthrow (or Ftilt, really) cheese on Duck Hunt at higher levels of play. People just don't approach when they see you chilling under that tree hoping to get a shield grab if they have any clue how early Uthrow can kill. I'd rather go to Battlefield/Dream Land/Arena Ferox where pretty much the entire stage has an upper platform, albeit substantially lower.

And the Ftilt "buff" is funny but not that exploitable. Jab is way faster and safer on shield and deals around 12%. If the entire hitbox of Ftilt turned into a sweet spot because of the Z axis nonsense, I could see that being cheesy but if it really only sweetspots at point blankblank and the tip, I'd say it's still outclassed by jabs and Dtilt unless you're opponent is at kill percent or you are combo-ing.

If you're gonna cheese, go to Arena Ferox. I can't tell you all how many people I've cheesed with high percent f/bthrow combos after missed wall techs. We're talkin' full blown kill combos off of offscreen walls. Not to mention wall spikes.