Little Mac isn't considered to be a Retro Newcomer?

[AustarusIV]

I've noticed that a lot of people here seem to think that Little Mac isn't the retro newcomer for this game. But why isn't he? He's an iconic character from the 8-bit era of video games, who's been treated as such by Nintendo whenever they do callbacks to the NES Library. His last game before Punch-Out for the Wii, Super Punch Out, was released in 1994, which is a huge release gap between the two generations.

I know that he had a new game for the Wii, but for all we know that could have just been a nice callback to his popularity. The Japanese fanbase seems to regard him as a retro character, but why don't we? I didn't make this thread so that I could dismiss the chances of other retro candidates, because in each game since Melee, we've gotten two retro characters (e.g. Ice Climbers and Game & Watch in Melee, Pit and R.O.B. in Brawl).

Does anyone else here consider the fact that he's being treated as a retro newcomer?

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

Well..he's not.
He might have started in the arcades, but so did a lot of them.
He had a game on the Wii (which was a Nintendo Select Title) and 2 cameos (In Brawl, and in Captain Rainbow) on the Wii.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Well..he's not.
He might have started in the arcades, but so did a lot of them.
He had a game on the Wii (which was a Nintendo Select Title) and 2 cameos (In Brawl, and in Captain Rainbow) on the Wii.

So, to consider a character to be retro, they needed to only have a game that was not recent?

 

[jigglover]

So, to consider a character to be retro, they needed to only have a game that was not recent?

Virtual Console is different, but yeah, that pretty much defines it. Otherwise the majority of characters in smash would be retro lol.

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

Virtual Console is different, but yeah, that pretty much defines it. Otherwise the majority of characters in smash would be retro lol.

Exactly.
For example. I don't consider Pit retro.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Virtual Console is different, but yeah, that pretty much defines it. Otherwise the majority of characters in smash would be retro lol.

So the only true Retro characters are R.O.B and Mr. Game and Watch?

I thought Retro characters where ones that originated back in the old days of gaming via 80s and 90s.

So Pacman isn't Retro?

 

[jigglover]

So the only true Retro characters are R.O.B and Mr. Game and Watch?

I thought Retro characters where ones that originated back in the old days of gaming via 80s and 90s.

So Pacman isn't Retro?

Ice Climbers are, too. Even though they had a cameo in Animal Crossing, and a Virtual Console game, they are very much retro because they haven't had an actual new game released in a long LONG time.

Pit was also a full retro character in Brawl, but because of Kid Icarus: Uprising, he is retro no longer.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Ice Climbers are, too. Even though they had a cameo in Animal Crossing, and a Virtual Console game, they are very much retro because they haven't had an actual new game released in a long LONG time.

Pit was also a full retro character in Brawl, but because of Kid Icarus: Uprising, he is retro no longer.

So....we can never talk about any characters being retro ever again, unless they are practically dead.

This really doesn't sound all that logical.

Retro characters are those that got their starting back in the early days of gaming.

This just seems to be a definition change to allow people to use ammunition to work against potential Super Smash Brothers candidates.

 

[Burigu]

So....we can never talk about any characters being retro ever again, unless they are practically dead.

ret·ro
adjective\ˈre-(ˌ)trō\
: looking like or relating to styles or fashions from the past

 

[Oracle_Summon]

ret·ro
adjective\ˈre-(ˌ)trō\
: looking like or relating to styles or fashions from the past

Agreed. That is why I think them trying to claim that these characters, who started in the old days of gaming, to not make much sense.

 

[DANICK]

I know he have a game for the wii, but i thinks he's more a retro than anyone else in the game

 

[Burigu]

Agreed. That is why I think them trying to claim that these characters, who started in the old days of gaming, to no make much sense.

Well I have a different aproach for me this Mario IS retro

But this Mario isn't retro

It's like cars you might have produced a model from 1950 until today but only the old ones are considered retro or classic, in this case 8 bit Mario is retro but today Mario isn't since he is vigent, so in general characters like Mario Peach or Bowser for me aren't retro unless they appear in 8 bit form.

So I agree Ice Climbers are retro and Mr G&W since in their series they don't have a recent model and only have an actual recent model as cameos for a game which isn't from their series.

So with Little Mac having a recent game with and actualized look I don't consider him retro anymore same with Pit.

It's not that these characters aren't old because they are but they keep changing and are vigent nowdays so they are recent.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Little Mac's career

Arcade games -> NES -> SNES -> Cameo in a GCN game -> Cameos in Wii games -> New Punch-Out on the Wii -> Smash for Wii U/3DS

He's not exactly retro. But i can see why people would think he is.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Well I have a different aproach for me this Mario IS retro

But this Mario isn't retro

It's like cars you might have produced a model from 1950 until today but only the old ones are considered retro or classic, in this case 8 bit Mario is retro but today Mario isn't since he is vigent, so in general characters like Mario Peach or Bowser for me aren't retro unless they appear in 8 bit form.

So I agree Ice Climbers are retro and Mr G&W since in their series they don't have a recent model and only have an actual recent model as cameos for a game which isn't from their series.

That is if you treat Mario as two different people. I only separate entities of the same character to be different if the character gets reboot. Kind of like DmC Dante and DMC 1-3 Dante (sorry if I missed a game).

I still think Mario applies to the retro definition, because he still lives from his beginning days.

I am not saying you are wrong, but you and I have different ways we view retro.

 

[Burigu]

That is if you treat Mario as two different people. I only separate entities of the same character to be different if the character gets reboot. Kind of like DmC Dante and DMC 1-3 Dante (sorry if I missed a game).

I still think Mario applies to the retro definition, because he still lives from his beginning days.

I am not saying you are wrong, but you and I have different ways we view retro.

It's not like he is a different person but his model has changed, it's like brands or cars they might have the same name from years, like I said with cars you can have two mustangs one from 1960 ( I don´t know about cars so if dates are wrong is only and example) and one for 2014, they can be considered the same car since both are mustangs but only the one from 1960 is considered retro while the other one isn't.

Since videogame characters aren't actual living persons you can apply the same rule to them we have a Mario from 1987 and one from 2014, one is an unused and abandoned model not really used varing cameos, while the other has been constantly used from some years until know and is the model of the character nowdays so is vigent and recent, while the other one is retro and "old school".

For characters without an actual game since 80s like Ice Climbers you can consider them retro, but the minute they get a game they are actual again and not considered retro. For example if Little Mac start getting 20 games from now people can't consider him retro.

As said before one thing is being old WHICH MOST of these CHARACTERS are and other thing is being retro, because they are vigent and retro is something that isn't vigent.

OLD isn't the same as RETRO

 

[Oracle_Summon]

It's not like he is a different person but his model has changed, it's like brands or cars they might have the same name from years, like I said with cars you can have two mustangs one from 1960 ( I don´t know about cars so if dates are wrong is only and example) and one for 2014, they can be considered the same car since both are mustangs but only the one from 1960 is considered retro while the other one isn't.

Since videogame characters aren't actual living persons you can apply the same rule to them we have a Mario from 1987 and one from 2014, one is an unused and abandoned model not really used varing cameos, while the other has been constantly used from some years until know and is the model of the character nowdays so is vigent and recent, while the other one is retro and "old school".

For characters without an actual game since 80s like Ice Climbers you can consider them retro, but the minute they get a game they are actual again and not considered retro. For example if Little Mac start getting 20 games from now people can't consider him retro.

As said before one thing is being old WHICH MOST of these CHARACTERS are and other thing is being retro, because they are vigent and retro is something that isn't vigent.

OLD isn't the same as retro

I'll just say that you and I differ on this. We won't agree so I think it is best that we both said our piece.

 

[Burigu]

I'll just say that you and I differ on this. We won't agree so I think it is best that we both said our piece.

Well for me the car example is pretty solid to stand by my point, I feel a bit dissapointed about you not trying to defend yours but it's ok you have the right to drop the subject, greetings to you at least you were really civil somepeople can't go really crazy when confronted by different ideas I will drop this subjet too

 

[Spinosaurus]

It really depends on your view point. Do you also consider Pit retro now? Does it matter?

Personally I can easily see both sides of the argument. I don't consider him retro, he's very clearly modernized in my eyes as a character and a boxer.

 

[BlueBubbee]

Well..he's not.
He might have started in the arcades, but so did a lot of them.
He had a game on the Wii (which was a Nintendo Select Title) and 2 cameos (In Brawl, and in Captain Rainbow) on the Wii.

By this logic, wouldn't be considered retro either, due to his appearance in Mario Kart DS as a playable character. Yet, we all still consider him retro.


Mario Kart DS was released in 2005; Super Smash Bros Brawl was released in 2008: 3 Year Difference
Punch-Out!! Wii was released in 2009; Super Smash Bros 4 is being released in 2014: 5 Year Difference.

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

By this logic, wouldn't be considered retro either, due to his appearance in Mario Kart DS as a playable character. Yet, we all still consider him retro.

Mario Kart DS was released in 2005; Super Smash Bros Brawl was released in 2008: 3 Year Difference
Punch-Out!! Wii was released in 2009; Super Smash Bros 4 is being released in 2014: 5 Year Difference.

I don't really consider him retro...or a game character by nature as he was more of a peripheral.

 

[AustarusIV]

Well I have a different aproach for me this Mario IS retro

But this Mario isn't retro

It's like cars you might have produced a model from 1950 until today but only the old ones are considered retro or classic, in this case 8 bit Mario is retro but today Mario isn't since he is vigent, so in general characters like Mario Peach or Bowser for me aren't retro unless they appear in 8 bit form.

So I agree Ice Climbers are retro and Mr G&W since in their series they don't have a recent model and only have an actual recent model as cameos for a game which isn't from their series.

So with Little Mac having a recent game with and actualized look I don't consider him retro anymore same with Pit.

It's not that these characters aren't old because they are but they keep changing and are vigent nowdays so they are recent.

Hmmm. Good point, I guess Little Mac could not be considered a retro character if he's strongly based on the 2009 Wii game.

But from my point of view, he's the sole retro newcomer for this game, unless you consider Pac-Man and Mega Man to be ones as well (as they're very much based on their classic looks and actions).

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I thought Mega Man was our retro.

 

[Ragna22]

At this point in time Little Mac is as much of a retro character as Pit and Palutena, you gotta remember they DID get new games within the last ten years.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Little Mac has appeared in the Nes (punch out) Snes (super punch out), Gamecube (fight night round 2), and the Wii era three times (brawl, captain rainbow, punch out wii).

Nowdays he can't be considered retro. He's been in every Nintendo generation excepto 64.

Now, if you think Mario and Link are retro, then so is Mac. But I call them "ongoings". Or rescent.

 

[Bladeviper]

Hmmm. Good point, I guess Little Mac could not be considered a retro character if he's strongly based on the 2009 Wii game.

But from my point of view, he's the sole retro newcomer for this game, unless you consider Pac-Man and Mega Man to be ones as well (as they're very much based on their classic looks and actions).

but for megaman at least he looked like that in two games in the past 5 years

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Little Mac has appeared in the Nes (punch out) Snes (super punch out), Gamecube (fight night round 2), and the Wii era three times (brawl, captain rainbow, punch out wii).

Nowdays he can't be considered retro. He's been in every Nintendo generation excepto 64.

Now, if you think Mario and Link are retro, then so is Mac. But I call them "ongoings". Or rescent.

Uh... that wasn't Little Mac. From what I have heard, that was an entirely different character.

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

Uh... that wasn't Little Mac. From what I have heard, that was an entirely different character.

Which one, because I'm pretty sure he's right?

 

[shinhed-echi]

Uh... that wasn't Little Mac. From what I have heard, that was an entirely different character.

*sigh* Do I really have to bring this up each and every time?

Featuring the tight game play and humor the series is known for, this sequel to the NES classic sees Little Mac return to the ring with the World Video Boxing Association belt once again at stake. Slug your way through the grueling, sweat-pounding matches of the Minor, Major, and World Circuits as you face off against some of Little Mac’s greatest rivals like Bear Hugger, Bald Bull, and Super Macho Man. With a cast of new challengers waiting, do you have what it takes to identify their unique patterns and exploit their weaknesses? Go to your corner and come out fighting, but remember what Doc Louis would say, "It’s not about brawling—it’s about finesse!"
Super Punch Out - Nintendo Official Site

Nintendo themselves said it. Or what, there can be hundreds of different Links, or many versions of Mario, but there can't be more than one Little Mac? (Because I'm sure Captain Rainbow Fat Mac never canonically happened)

And even if he induces nightmates...

Spoiler

MAC. Right there on the trunks.

The only ones I don't bring up are the Arcade Boxer, and the boxer from the Game & Watch series "Boxing" (because at one point it was also called Punch Out! but now it's just called Boxing)

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

*sigh* Do I really have to bring this up each and every time?

Featuring the tight game play and humor the series is known for, this sequel to the NES classic sees Little Mac return to the ring with the World Video Boxing Association belt once again at stake. Slug your way through the grueling, sweat-pounding matches of the Minor, Major, and World Circuits as you face off against some of Little Mac’s greatest rivals like Bear Hugger, Bald Bull, and Super Macho Man. With a cast of new challengers waiting, do you have what it takes to identify their unique patterns and exploit their weaknesses? Go to your corner and come out fighting, but remember what Doc Louis would say, "It’s not about brawling—it’s about finesse!"
Super Punch Out - Nintendo Official Site

Nintendo themselves said it. Or what, there can be hundreds of different Links, or many versions of Mario, but there can't be more than one Little Mac? (Because I'm sure Captain Rainbow Fat Mac never canonically happened)

And even if he induces nightmates...

Spoiler

MAC. Right there on the trunks.

The only ones I don't bring up are the Arcade Boxer, and the boxer from the Game & Watch series "Boxing" (because at one point it was also called Punch Out! but now it's just called Boxing)

I'm not a fan of SPO Mac, as he apparently died his hair blonde and LEFT DOC LOUIS FOR FAME.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'm not a fan of SPO Mac, as he apparently died his hair blonde and LEFT DOC LOUIS FOR FAME.

He's not my favorite (the black haired one is), but he comes close.

I do wish SPO was named differently though. I think NED would be a good name.

Don't know if this makes sense but:
M-A-C
(add 1 to each letter)
N-E-D

Anyway,
I bet if Next Level Games were to make a SUPER Punch Out remake, they'd sort this out once and for all.

And yeah, the lack of Doc Louis in SPO is one of my biggest gripes in the game.

 

[smashingDoug]

well lets look at retro is
imitative of a style, fashion, or design from the recent past.
so because he had a game on the wii it appears to mean he not retro and you know what it a little sad if not now some day soon captain falcon will be retro

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

He's not my favorite (the black haired one is), but he comes close.

I do wish SPO was named differently though. I think NED would be a good name.

Don't know if this makes sense but:
M-A-C
(add 1 to each letter)
N-E-D

Anyway,
I bet if Next Level Games were to make a SUPER Punch Out remake, they'd sort this out once and for all.

And yeah, the lack of Doc Louis in SPO is one of my biggest gripes in the game.

According to the Word of God of the game, he LEFT Doc.

 

[shinhed-echi]

We can all agree that our definitions of retro don't necessarily match.
That's ok.

I wouldn't consider Captain Falcon to be retro until there's at least 6 years without a Nintendo system with him in it. Be it F-Zero or SSB.
But he's definitely a classic Nintendo character, that I can't deny.

 

[AustarusIV]

*sigh* Do I really have to bring this up each and every time?

Featuring the tight game play and humor the series is known for, this sequel to the NES classic sees Little Mac return to the ring with the World Video Boxing Association belt once again at stake. Slug your way through the grueling, sweat-pounding matches of the Minor, Major, and World Circuits as you face off against some of Little Mac’s greatest rivals like Bear Hugger, Bald Bull, and Super Macho Man. With a cast of new challengers waiting, do you have what it takes to identify their unique patterns and exploit their weaknesses? Go to your corner and come out fighting, but remember what Doc Louis would say, "It’s not about brawling—it’s about finesse!"
Super Punch Out - Nintendo Official Site

Nintendo themselves said it. Or what, there can be hundreds of different Links, or many versions of Mario, but there can't be more than one Little Mac? (Because I'm sure Captain Rainbow Fat Mac never canonically happened)

And even if he induces nightmates...

Spoiler

MAC. Right there on the trunks.

The only ones I don't bring up are the Arcade Boxer, and the boxer from the Game & Watch series "Boxing" (because at one point it was also called Punch Out! but now it's just called Boxing)

What the ****. I've never heard of this until now, and I wish I hadn't. The Gamecube one, I mean.

 

[shinhed-echi]

What the ****. I've never heard of this until now, and I wish I hadn't. The Gamecube one, I mean.

Can't blame you. They really did F up the model real bad. ._.
They should've given him normal facial proportions. Or heck, go with the NES version which I'm sure is easier to translate into a realistic 3D model. XD

 

[True Blue Warrior]

*sigh* Do I really have to bring this up each and every time?

Featuring the tight game play and humor the series is known for, this sequel to the NES classic sees Little Mac return to the ring with the World Video Boxing Association belt once again at stake. Slug your way through the grueling, sweat-pounding matches of the Minor, Major, and World Circuits as you face off against some of Little Mac’s greatest rivals like Bear Hugger, Bald Bull, and Super Macho Man. With a cast of new challengers waiting, do you have what it takes to identify their unique patterns and exploit their weaknesses? Go to your corner and come out fighting, but remember what Doc Louis would say, "It’s not about brawling—it’s about finesse!"
Super Punch Out - Nintendo Official Site

Nintendo themselves said it. Or what, there can be hundreds of different Links, or many versions of Mario, but there can't be more than one Little Mac? (Because I'm sure Captain Rainbow Fat Mac never canonically happened)

And even if he induces nightmates...

Spoiler

MAC. Right there on the trunks.

The only ones I don't bring up are the Arcade Boxer, and the boxer from the Game & Watch series "Boxing" (because at one point it was also called Punch Out! but now it's just called Boxing)

That picture right there is just plain awful.

 

[JohannFKNFaust]

Why isn't he considered the retro character? Because of that new game? That's rediculous, especially since they probably won't make another Punch Out!! for a very long time. I dunno, I'm hoping, I need more Punch out!!

 

[DoubleYooToo]

By this logic, wouldn't be considered retro either, due to his appearance in Mario Kart DS as a playable character. Yet, we all still consider him retro.

Mario Kart DS was released in 2005; Super Smash Bros Brawl was released in 2008: 3 Year Difference
Punch-Out!! Wii was released in 2009; Super Smash Bros 4 is being released in 2014: 5 Year Difference.

A cameo appearance as an unlockable character is totally the same thing as a series reboot on a new system

some people on this website...

 

[JohannFKNFaust]

I think it's a matter of opinion, I consider a retro new comer, but that might be because Punch-Out!! Feat. Mr. Dream was my very first game, though.

 

[Pokemon-master]

i think that and is the retro characters for this game there designs are after there old games whileis designed after the new...ish game on the wii but he still does have the wire mac costume so it can go anyway