Little Mac in "For Glory" Mode

[Platsy]

Recently Sakurai showed us the online features of Wii/U and 3DS. One of the new modes is "For Glory", which is more competitive than the other mode shown, and all stages are varieties of Final Destination.

This got me thinking. If Little Mac has such an amazing ground game, he should be extremely dominant in this mode. There's no platforms, which makes him jump less and not become handicapped from his horrible air game, and he can rush to projectile spammers across the map with ease. The only platform is the ground itself, and he pretty much controls it.

I'd like to know your thoughts on this. Do you think he'll be crazy good, or is it maybe too early to decipher these things?

 

[NFTsmasher]

This is kind of what I was thinking during that part of the Direct, not necessarily for Little Mac though: that while FD is fairly neutral, I can definitely see characters needing platforms to be just as viable. I like how there is a separate online mode that is trying to cater towards more hardcore fans, but it also perpetuates the false notion that Final Destination is the ONLY must go-to stage for competitive fights. #NoItemsFoxOnlyFinalDestination

There are (or at least should be!) other viable stages! And I would like to play on those as well! The FD skins are super awesome but are functionally the same stage.

 

[Graydient]

I agree, he seems really imbalanced in this regard.

Also, can't Little Mac's Power Meter be abused in 2v2? Just have your partner give you a couple of weak hits (or whiff at your partner with weak air attacks), and you have a OHKO at your disposable.

 

[Overtaken]

As a G&W player, I promise you Graydient that it doesn't work as well in practice as it does in theory

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'm pretty sure For Glory mode contains a sub-mode that is Final Destination mode.
But I didn't catch that completely.

Anyways people are also saying that the likes of Falco and Megaman will be dominant in these type of stages as well, so we'll have to wait and see. I'm pretty sure Sonic has been buffed up to, and covering so much terrain in so little time will be an advantage for him too. It's too early to call any character dominant. Especially since this game is supposed to be shaping up to be more balanced on the competitive side (compared to Brawl)

 

[NFTsmasher]

I agree, he seems really imbalanced in this regard.

Also, can't Little Mac's Power Meter be abused in 2v2? Just have your partner give you a couple of weak hits (or whiff at your partner with weak air attacks), and you have a OHKO at your disposable.

Little Mac's meter is charged when you take damage and when you pull off consecutive hits/combos without getting hit.

 

[negativeX]

Little Mac is the only new character that I think looks overpowered. Maybe it's just me but that guy never seems to be knocked back. He probably isn't but it's just what I'm getting from these videos.

Oh yeah, and final destination is the best destination.

 

[Ragna22]

I feel like Little Mac in general is designed with 1v1 in mind anyway, apart from his instant kill punch and down smash he doesn't seem like he'll do well at crowed control at all and even with the attacks I brought up, that instant kill punch only goes in one direction so you're in trouble if one or two guys jump over you when you landed a punch of someone and the second hit on his down smash is just like Mario and other characters' where the second hit needs a few extra frames to perform, combine all that with is bad air game and you got a character that's going to struggle in free for all.

 

[Banjodorf]

Yeah, I sort of expect him to be the frickin' KING of For Glory. No platforms, lots of space, seemingly a character good at stage control.

This'll probably lead alot of casual players to overestimate his competitive ability though, if his aerial game ends up hurting him badly.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

As far as stage control goes, he isn't the only one who could benefit from a flat stage. I feel like Rosalina and Luma will be a good MU for Little Mac, since they can force a confrontation. Fast characters with good ground and aerial games can get him in the air if need be, I have high hopes for Smash 4 balance wise.

 

[Downdraft]

Little Mac is the only new character that I think looks overpowered. Maybe it's just me but that guy never seems to be knocked back. He probably isn't but it's just what I'm getting from these videos.

Oh yeah, and final destination is the best destination.

Sakurai confirmed that Little Mac's air game and recovery are abysmal.
Dodge his attacks, rack up some damage, and use shield grab -> U-throw.
Once he's in the air, the matchup bends towards you.
How easy will Little Mac be to juggle?

 

[Ragna22]

Sakurai confirmed that Little Mac's air game and recovery are abysmal.
Dodge his attacks, rack up some damage, and use shield grab -> U-throw.
Once he's in the air, the matchup bends towards you.
How easy will Little Mac be to juggle?

I understand that Mac is designed with a bad air game but I'm willing to believe that advanced Mac players are going to find ways to make use of his air attacks anyway, like I could see some being used for short hops or something, I just don't see his air attacks being completely useless.

 

[Downdraft]

I understand that Mac is designed with a bad air game but I'm willing to believe that advanced Mac players are going to find ways to make use of his air attacks anyway, like I could see some being used for short hops or something, I just don't see his air attacks being completely useless.

I don't see them being completely useless either, or he might as well not have any.
However, will they be better than the opponents?

 

[L9999]

Mac can be dominated with the Wall of Pain and maybe he is as easy to juggle as Bowser. Also with lame recovery comes easy gimping, once you throw him out of Final Destination, he dies. Also, he can be bombarded with projectiles. Still OHKOs are cheaply broken.

 

[Downdraft]

Mac can be dominated with the Wall of Pain and maybe he is as easy to juggle as Bowser. Also with lame recovery comes easy gimping, once you throw him out of Final Destination, he dies. Also, he can be bombarded with projectiles. Still OHKOs are cheaply broken.

How is it cheaply broken? It's not the first OHKO in the game, and there's a visible gauge. It's the opponent's fault if they get hit.

 

[L9999]

Of course, but those require loads of skill to pull out, Little Mac's...is just there, a single button press once the meter fills.

 

[Downdraft]

Of course, but those require loads of skill to pull out, Little Mac's...is just there, a single button press once the meter fills.

Jigglypuff's Rest may require loads of skill to pull out. Roy and Ike's neutral specials and Ganondorf's u-tilt shouldn't hit an opponent that's on the stage.

 

[L9999]

Guess you win this round.

 

[Downdraft]

Guess you win this round.

Not necessarily, we just have different views on past OHKOs.
Most of them leave the user wide open and open to punishment.
Ganondorf, Ike, and Roy's OHKO's can be used to kill a recovering opponent.
If the opponent is not recovering, then they should be able to easily avoid a OHKO.

 

[Ragna22]

I don't see them being completely useless either, or he might as well not have any.
However, will they be better than the opponents?

His air attacks don't necessarily have to be better than the opponents but advanced players will find a good way to defend themselves against it because let's face it, they'll have to at some point because otherwise the Little Mac player's greatest dilemma would be trying to avoid getting juggled and while it's easy to say "don't get taken to the air, ya can't exactly guarantee that no matter how good you are.

 

[Morbi]

I honestly feel as though; as a planned Little Mac main, that the Final Destination-esque maps are going to favor the Mac MU. I immediately felt as though the stage was going to cater to rush-down characters, as it always has. His weak air-game is mitigated by an overt omission of platforms, and you have a long stretch of land to pressure your opponent. That being said, there will obviously be characters that hard-counter Little Mac. It isn't as though he is going to be the only character that benefits from a neutral stage. He is just one of the most obvious. Mac Mains will be comfortable here, in competitive, players are obviously going to counter-pick this stage. We need to wait and see if he actually dominates the mode though. I doubt it, to be perfectly honest. The blatantly over-powered character is going to dominate.

 

[Sovereign]

I'm predicting a lot of Little Mac mains, out the gate, and with that, comes easy access to disecting the MU. There will be an answer for him within just a week of the game being out, due to how popular he is, and the fact that most will go to FD for his favored ground game, makes it even easier to get the job done.

I also want to know if his OHKO can be shielded. If not, I'll treat it like Marth's FS and just jump out the way or cling to a ledge.

 

[Ragna22]

I may not main him but I do plan on using him a bunch myself and i'm one of those who wants to find a way to make good use of his air attacks, even then I know it'll take me a while to get used to his general play style cause I'm one of those risky players who 's willing to jump off the stage to force a recovering opponent off screen and so because of that I use Sonic and Charizard a lot in Project M because their recovery is good for that sort of thing so I'll have to break that habbit with Little Mac.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

The way people talk about Little Mac really hurts my head sometimes ...

Let me put it this way.

Do you think a fast-faller susceptible to juggles with poor, slow or weak aerials and no easy way to get back to grounds would *benefit* from platforms in the air that he can tech on to escape combos, or be *hurt* by them?

Use your heads, people

 

[Morbi]

The way people talk about Little Mac really hurts my head sometimes ...

Let me put it this way.

Do you think a fast-faller susceptible to juggles with poor, slow or weak aerials and no easy way to get back to grounds would *benefit* from platforms in the air that he can tech on to escape combos, or be *hurt* by them?

Use your heads, people

I am not sold on the "susceptible to juggles" notion; there is no way to definitively tell. Even then, aerial characters are much better on platform stages, so that is where everyone is getting that. He might be helped, he might be hurt. I am going to vote on "hurt" by platform stages, for the time being. I will adjust my answer when I have more evidence, or experience with the character.

I may not main him but I do plan on using him a bunch myself and i'm one of those who wants to find a way to make good use of his air attacks, even then I know it'll take me a while to get used to his general play style cause I'm one of those risky players who 's willing to jump off the stage to force a recovering opponent off screen and so because of that I use Sonic and Charizard a lot in Project M because their recovery is good for that sort of thing so I'll have to break that habbit with Little Mac.

I am the same way; I am a great aerial player, so I am hoping that my experience with "air-game" will help make his detrimental aerial game negligible. If not, at least my strong point is my characters weak point.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I am not sold on the "susceptible to juggles" notion

Well, I'm not sold on the 'terrible air game' notion.

It's super annoying that everyone has latched onto three words stated by Sakurai a few times and accepted them as gospel without even fully contemplating what it might mean. Evidence points to Mac being a fast-faller, having a single jump and a vertical recovery with poor distance. Okay ... but so what? Fast-falling means his short-hopped aerials come out closer to the ground and he may even luck out with an aerial or two that autocancels if Fast-Falled quick enough. His Jolt Haymaker covers a large horizontal distance and possesses super-armor, giving us evidence that his recovery isn't quite the piece of tripe it's made out to be. And a single jump, fast-faller nature and predictable recovery never held Falco back in either of his two games, or Fox in Melee or 64.

What does Sakurai even mean by 'terrible air game'? That Mac cannot execute a Wall of Pain? True, but neither can a lot of people. That Mac a has a terrible, predictable recovery? I can see that the evidence points to that and agree to an extent (if Captain Falcon can work with his recovery in Melee, we Mac mains can work with ours). That Mac is terrible at edgeguarding? You'll have to show me his entire move-set before I'm convinced of that, especially since I'd be inclined to assert that his arcing hitboxes and super-armor to tank offensive recoveries give his side-smash alone a lot of coverage and egde potential. Or that Mac has terrible, weak, unusable aerials?

We don't know that that's what Sakurai means, and even if he did outright state that, in those words, I would STILL call bull****.

Weak aerials mean good combo potential on a fast-faller. Strong aerials mean good finishers. We've seen but a single one of Mac's aerials and we don't even know if it's his Nair or Fair, or how strong it is if it actually hits in a non-staged environment. (It is not possible for Mac to miss that aerial on WFT, and then immediately die. His player had to have fast-falled, wasted his jump and then waited a second to use his Up-B too low to actually recover from.) I expect Mac to have a 'poor air game' in the same way that Fox and Falco do, and not consistently repeat three words that we got, translated through an interpreter, from the man who, while he admittedly made the game, rated Meta Knight's power a 6/10 in the Brawl Strategy guide.

We just think and use characters differently. So until I see that every single one of Mac's aerials is weak, slow, has poor coverage and piles of landing lag, you're not going to hear me say that Mac has a bad 'air game' (which is in of itself a vague, undefined term.)

Additionally, Morbid: The existence of Mac's Up-B and his up-angled side smash alone make him benefit from platforms. Mac can use Up-B out of shield to get out of pressure and land on a platform to cancel his special fall; launch the opponent into the air with his jab launcher or up-angled Fsmash, chase them into the air with Up-B and then land on a platform faster than his target (since we know he is a fast-faller), ready to follow up with a finisher, etc. Already we can infer than Mac has a good vertical combo game. I'm willing to bet hard cash that Mac's a juggler.

And really, if his ground attacks are indeed much better than his aerials, don't you think that being able to chase opponents that are recovering high, or have multiple jumps, while keeping his feet on a solid surface would, once again, be *helpful*?

C'mon guys, this ain't that complicated.

 

[Morbi]

Well, I'm not sold on the 'terrible air game' notion.

It's super annoying that everyone has latched onto three words stated by Sakurai a few times and accepted them as gospel without even fully contemplating what it might mean. Evidence points to Mac being a fast-faller, having a single jump and a vertical recovery with poor distance. Okay ... but so what? Fast-falling means his short-hopped aerials come out closer to the ground and he may even luck out with an aerial or two that autocancels if Fast-Falled quick enough. His Jolt Haymaker covers a large horizontal distance and possesses super-armor, giving us evidence that his recovery isn't quite the piece of tripe it's made out to be. And a single jump, fast-faller nature and predictable recovery never held Falco back in either of his two games, or Fox in Melee or 64.

What does Sakurai even mean by 'terrible air game'? That Mac cannot execute a Wall of Pain? True, but neither can a lot of people. That Mac a has a terrible, predictable recovery? I can see that the evidence points to that and agree to an extent (if Captain Falcon can work with his recovery in Melee, we Mac mains can work with ours). That Mac is terrible at edgeguarding? You'll have to show me his entire move-set before I'm convinced of that, especially since I'd be inclined to assert that his arcing hitboxes and super-armor to tank offensive recoveries give his side-smash alone a lot of coverage and egde potential. Or that Mac has terrible, weak, unusable aerials?

We don't know that that's what Sakurai means, and even if he did outright state that, in those words, I would STILL call bull****.

Weak aerials mean good combo potential on a fast-faller. Strong aerials mean good finishers. We've seen but a single one of Mac's aerials and we don't even know if it's his Nair or Fair, or how strong it is if it actually hits in a non-staged environment. (It is not possible for Mac to miss that aerial on WFT, and then immediately die. His player had to have fast-falled, wasted his jump and then waited a second to use his Up-B too low to actually recover from.) I expect Mac to have a 'poor air game' in the same way that Fox and Falco do, and not consistently repeat three words that we got, translated through an interpreter, from the man who, while he admittedly made the game, rated Meta Knight's power a 6/10 in the Brawl Strategy guide.

We just think and use characters differently. So until I see that every single one of Mac's aerials is weak, slow, has poor coverage and piles of landing lag, you're not going to hear me say that Mac has a bad 'air game' (which is in of itself a vague, undefined term.)

Additionally, Morbid: The existence of Mac's Up-B and his up-angled side smash alone make him benefit from platforms. Mac can use Up-B out of shield to get out of pressure and land on a platform to cancel his special fall; launch the opponent into the air with his jab launcher or up-angled Fsmash, chase them into the air with Up-B and then land on a platform faster than his target (since we know he is a fast-faller), ready to follow up with a finisher, etc. Already we can infer than Mac has a good vertical combo game. I'm willing to bet hard cash that Mac's a juggler.

And really, if his ground attacks are indeed much better than his aerials, don't you think that being able to chase opponents that are recovering high, or have multiple jumps, while keeping his feet on a solid surface would, once again, be *helpful*?

C'mon guys, this ain't that complicated.

I was just going off of my own empirical evidence, obviously. I am an adamant believer that I need to actually play the game to objectively assert anything, I am not treating Sakurai's words like "gospel." Secondly, I never stated that he wouldn't benefit from platforms, I just thought that a flat stage would be less counter-intuitive.

 

[Ragna22]

Well, I'm not sold on the 'terrible air game' notion.

It's super annoying that everyone has latched onto three words stated by Sakurai a few times and accepted them as gospel without even fully contemplating what it might mean. Evidence points to Mac being a fast-faller, having a single jump and a vertical recovery with poor distance. Okay ... but so what? Fast-falling means his short-hopped aerials come out closer to the ground and he may even luck out with an aerial or two that autocancels if Fast-Falled quick enough. His Jolt Haymaker covers a large horizontal distance and possesses super-armor, giving us evidence that his recovery isn't quite the piece of tripe it's made out to be. And a single jump, fast-faller nature and predictable recovery never held Falco back in either of his two games, or Fox in Melee or 64.

What does Sakurai even mean by 'terrible air game'? That Mac cannot execute a Wall of Pain? True, but neither can a lot of people. That Mac a has a terrible, predictable recovery? I can see that the evidence points to that and agree to an extent (if Captain Falcon can work with his recovery in Melee, we Mac mains can work with ours). That Mac is terrible at edgeguarding? You'll have to show me his entire move-set before I'm convinced of that, especially since I'd be inclined to assert that his arcing hitboxes and super-armor to tank offensive recoveries give his side-smash alone a lot of coverage and egde potential. Or that Mac has terrible, weak, unusable aerials?

We don't know that that's what Sakurai means, and even if he did outright state that, in those words, I would STILL call bull****.

Weak aerials mean good combo potential on a fast-faller. Strong aerials mean good finishers. We've seen but a single one of Mac's aerials and we don't even know if it's his Nair or Fair, or how strong it is if it actually hits in a non-staged environment. (It is not possible for Mac to miss that aerial on WFT, and then immediately die. His player had to have fast-falled, wasted his jump and then waited a second to use his Up-B too low to actually recover from.) I expect Mac to have a 'poor air game' in the same way that Fox and Falco do, and not consistently repeat three words that we got, translated through an interpreter, from the man who, while he admittedly made the game, rated Meta Knight's power a 6/10 in the Brawl Strategy guide.

We just think and use characters differently. So until I see that every single one of Mac's aerials is weak, slow, has poor coverage and piles of landing lag, you're not going to hear me say that Mac has a bad 'air game' (which is in of itself a vague, undefined term.)

Additionally, Morbid: The existence of Mac's Up-B and his up-angled side smash alone make him benefit from platforms. Mac can use Up-B out of shield to get out of pressure and land on a platform to cancel his special fall; launch the opponent into the air with his jab launcher or up-angled Fsmash, chase them into the air with Up-B and then land on a platform faster than his target (since we know he is a fast-faller), ready to follow up with a finisher, etc. Already we can infer than Mac has a good vertical combo game. I'm willing to bet hard cash that Mac's a juggler.

And really, if his ground attacks are indeed much better than his aerials, don't you think that being able to chase opponents that are recovering high, or have multiple jumps, while keeping his feet on a solid surface would, once again, be *helpful*?

C'mon guys, this ain't that complicated.

This is why I feel that there's gotta be a way to work around his supposed bad air game, I'm not willing to believe that it's completely worthless myself which is the reason why I want to see how I can make use of his air game, in fact he'll probably be able to have access to all four of his speciall attacks in the air...Actually now that I bring that up I wonder if his side B will deal a meteor smash if used in the air, the animation looks like it would be.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I was just going off of my own empirical evidence, obviously. I am an adamant believer that I need to actually play the game to objectively assert anything, I am not treating Sakurai's words like "gospel." Secondly, I never stated that he wouldn't benefit from platforms, I just thought that a flat stage would be less counter-intuitive.

That wasn't an attack on you personally or anything at all. (Though the snappy tone with regards to platforms v/s no platforms was kind of ). I'm just a bit tired of people here consistently saying he has a bad air game when a) We've seen one of his aerials and b) We've merely been told this by someone who can't determine how we'll eventually play the game. Games evolve past developer intent with near complete consistency, and this doesn't apply just to Smash. Overpowered Gun-Powerup loadouts in shooters, or spells combinations in Dragon Age, or Dex/Int builds in Dark Souls - in any game with any degree of player freedom, the one who makes the game does not know what strategy, combination or player choices will ultimately reign supreme. Players play game for a lot longer than developers do, after all - but that's going a bit far into the general case. More specifically, Sakurai can balance Smash 4 however much he likes, but ultimately he will not be able to predict the dominant strategy any more than you or I can right now.

Simply put, 'air game' means something very different to different people due to it not being commonly accepted terminology. I don't know what Sakurai means by it and I don't care. I'll see how bad Mac's aerial capability is when I have the game in my hands, but between Jolt Haymaker, Rising Uppercut's offensive and possible anti-pressure prowess and the fact no character in the history of Smash has had a full set of truly garbage aerials (Pichu's Uair was amazing for juggles and Melee Kirby's bair was his only useful edge-guarding tool) I wouldn't count on him losing once you jump into the air.

In fact, please do that. People don't seem to realize that being in the air is a naturally disadvantageous position and I'd love to face an opponents who refuses to shield grab me in favor of jumping around the stage.

 

[Riposte__]

What evidence is there that Little Mac has only 1 jump? No smash character ever had less then 2 jumps.

 

[GreenPhysco]

That is why I will almost always use Mega Man in for Glory Mode.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

In fact, please do that. People don't seem to realize that being in the air is a naturally disadvantageous position and I'd love to face an opponents who refuses to shield grab me in favor of jumping around the stage.

I liked what you said until you said that being in the air is a naturally disadvantageous position. Aerials generally come out much faster than ground based moves, and being in the air is a crucial element of several character's approach and general playstyle. Several characters have aerials that essentially protect them from most approaches (i.e. M2's nair, Lucas' nair). Being in the air is definitelymore risky, but it has high reward, and it isn't naturally disadvantageous. Yes there are juggles, but there are also tech chases. As far as your example goes, it works for most cases, unless your opponent has a great OOS move like Marth's Up-B, than going for a shield grab might be foolish unless you definitely can get it.

Besides that one point I thought that your post was spot on.

 

[Jerodak]

Well, I'm not sold on the 'terrible air game' notion.

Well, interestingly enough, if they did design him like a real boxer then this actually makes perfect sense. A boxer's power is not just in his arms, it's in his entire body, but most important are the legs, not only is good footwork important for mobility but the power of a good punch starts at the feet and travels up into the arm. So naturally if a boxer were airborne, they'd lose the ability to generate any kind of significant torque and would lose the ability to throw any decent punches. Also, since little mac isn't exactly magical or fanciful at all if you know what I mean, Its safe to say that he wouldn't know some mystical air-boxing technique because it certainly would be as far from the canon as possible and wouldn't suit him anyway.

Also, in the direct, when it mentions his "bad air game" there are a collection of pictures there which seem like they may be his other aireals, and if they are then just look at how goofy those things look! His airgame might actually be O.P from how hard it'll make the other player(s) laugh. But back on topic, if those are his aerials then it's so appropriate, you can see how akward and unfamiliar it feels for him to be airborne while trying to box. He tries to use his techniques but without solid ground, he has no way to generate enough power for the type of punches that he can throw on the ground. I feel like this also accurately explains the armor on some of his attacks since having strong legs would allow him to absorb the shock of an attack while focusing on landing the blow, I notice that his body is also angled a little differently while the armor is out which would also help him absorb the brunt of the attack easier because he wouldn't be taking the hit head-on.

Now, that being said, your point on his fast-falling could also be true, there's no reason that he wouldn't fast-fall since that would be horrible for recovery which was emphasized to be really bad. However, it also supports the "bad air attacks" theory as well since air-centric characters are generally floaty so that they have more time to stay airborne and use their good aerials.

Anyway I feel that both theories are probably correct because while he'd have "megaton level" smashes on the ground, if he knocked somone offstage but didn't K.O them then he basically has to let them at least grab the ledge since his fallspeed and bad aerials would likely be terrible for gimping. So his ability to edgeguard might possibly take a hit which seems completely fair to me. If he failed to K.O with his smash then you get to recover against whatever "Bad airgame" means while adversely, if he simply flies offstage at all then whoever sent him off has a big opening to capitalize on.

Just like how reliably they are sticking to his concept as a boxer with the whole "airgame" quirk.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Well, interestingly enough, if they did design him like a real boxer then this actually makes perfect sense. A boxer's power is not just in his arms, it's in his entire body, but most important are the legs, not only is good footwork important for mobility but the power of a good punch starts at the feet and travels up into the arm. So naturally if a boxer were airborne, they'd lose the ability to generate any kind of significant torque and would lose the ability to throw any decent punches. Also, since little mac isn't exactly magical or fanciful at all if you know what I mean, Its safe to say that he wouldn't know some mystical air-boxing technique because it certainly would be as far from the canon as possible and wouldn't suit him anyway.

Also, in the direct, when it mentions his "bad air game" there are a collection of pictures there which seem like they may be his other aireals, and if they are then just look at how goofy those things look! His airgame might actually be O.P from how hard it'll make the other player(s) laugh. But back on topic, if those are his aerials then it's so appropriate, you can see how akward and unfamiliar it feels for him to be airborne while trying to box. He tries to use his techniques but without solid ground, he has no way to generate enough power for the type of punches that he can throw on the ground. I feel like this also accurately explains the armor on some of his attacks since having strong legs would allow him to absorb the shock of an attack while focusing on landing the blow, I notice that his body is also angled a little differently while the armor is out which would also help him absorb the brunt of the attack easier because he wouldn't be taking the hit head-on.

Now, that being said, your point on his fast-falling could also be true, there's no reason that he wouldn't fast-fall since that would be horrible for recovery which was emphasized to be really bad. However, it also supports the "bad air attacks" theory as well since air-centric characters are generally floaty so that they have more time to stay airborne and use their good aerials.

Anyway I feel that both theories are probably correct because while he'd have "megaton level" smashes on the ground, if he knocked somone offstage but didn't K.O them then he basically has to let them at least grab the ledge since his fallspeed and bad aerials would likely be terrible for gimping. So his ability to edgeguard might possibly take a hit which seems completely fair to me. If he failed to K.O with his smash then you get to recover against whatever "Bad airgame" means while adversely, if he simply flies offstage at all then whoever sent him off has a big opening to capitalize on.

Just like how reliably they are sticking to his concept as a boxer with the whole "airgame" quirk.

Ahhh, beautiful, I couldn't have said it better myself. I was actually thinking along those lines.

 

[Jerodak]

Thanks! Good to know that you enjoyed the read.

 

[Spinosaurus]

snip

I was actually really bothered by the direction they went about being weak in the air until I realized exactly what you said. I should have noticed it earlier since footwork is my strongest aspect in boxing lol. Guess I'm used to other boxers in fighting games that have good aerials.

I'm still bothered by his exaggerated animations though.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Thanks! Good to know that you enjoyed the read.

Those animations are Mac in hit-stun.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I liked what you said until you said that being in the air is a naturally disadvantageous position. Aerials generally come out much faster than ground based moves, and being in the air is a crucial element of several character's approach and general playstyle. Several characters have aerials that essentially protect them from most approaches (i.e. M2's nair, Lucas' nair). Being in the air is definitelymore risky, but it has high reward, and it isn't naturally disadvantageous. Yes there are juggles, but there are also tech chases. As far as your example goes, it works for most cases, unless your opponent has a great OOS move like Marth's Up-B, than going for a shield grab might be foolish unless you definitely can get it.

Besides that one point I thought that your post was spot on.

That isn't how being in neutral works. Neutral or advantage involves you having all of your options available to you: Shield, sidestep, grounded normals and yes, even short-hop aerials. Being on the ground doesn't eliminate the possibility of putting out a quick SHFF aerial but being in the air means you can't shield, can't roll, can't smash, can't dash, can't grab etc. During those moments in neutral when you're feeling your opponent out, playing the footsies game, trying to bait, you want to have access to all your moves so you can respond appropriately. It's why you see people dash-dancing in Melee and not hopping around the stage. Hopping into the air means you have committed to something, essentially giving up the bulk of your defensive options for access to your aerials. It can be a smart move and it can be used to press the advantage but it's not neutral.

Once again, remember how much Melee Marth loves and uses fair, and yet he still dash-dances in neutral.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

That isn't how being in neutral works. Neutral or advantage involves you having all of your options available to you: Shield, sidestep, grounded normals and yes, even short-hop aerials. Being on the ground doesn't eliminate the possibility of putting out a quick SHFF aerial but being in the air means you can't shield, can't roll, can't smash, can't dash, can't grab etc. During those moments in neutral when you're feeling your opponent out, playing the footsies game, trying to bait, you want to have access to all your moves so you can respond appropriately. It's why you see people dash-dancing in Melee and not hopping around the stage. Hopping into the air means you have committed to something, essentially giving up the bulk of your defensive options for access to your aerials. It can be a smart move and it can be used to press the advantage but it's not neutral.

Once again, remember how much Melee Marth loves and uses fair, and yet he still dash-dances in neutral.

Touche.
Tried to come up with a counter to that but your point was well made. GG

 

[shinhed-echi]

Great analysis Jerodak!
I always had that in mind when Sakurai talked about his bad air game, but you just explained it like a boss.

I'm sure Little Mac has enough at his disposal so that his lack of air game won't be a problem. In fact, I think Little Mac will be one of the first few characters with a strong anti-air game from the ground.