Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Oct 25, 2016

Bair 1 to Best Possible Follow-ups With and Without Rage:

This is an updated version of the previous Bair 1 post, now with Link's rage factored in. Different characters have different amounts of hitstun, air-time and landing lag when hit by Bair 1, and the amount will vary depending on Link's rage, so naturally there will be different 'best' options you can do when you connect a Bair 1 and then immediately land. I will provide the data but you must be the one that figures out what is the best and most realistic thing you can do out of a landing Bair 1 in each personally relevant matchup and then actually apply it in-game.

Below I'll be listing a bunch of numbers under each character.
The first will be total hitstun frames that Bair 1 induces assuming that the opponent doesn't land part-way through.
Then I'll state the amount of airborne frames the opponent experiences assuming they don't DI or SDI the Bair, and also assuming they don't DJ before they land if they can.
If they have the same or less airborne frames compared to the total amount of hitstun frames, this means they have no choice but to land.
Then I'll mention their total landing lag frames regardless of whether or not they have a forced landing.
At this point I'll be able to tell you how many frames we have to work with to get a follow up after Bair 1 against all of the opponent's best available options. I will assume that you have hit with Bair 1 on your final airborne frame and I will take into account the ten frames of landing lag you will have to endure immediately after.

Potential follow-ups include:
B-reversed Grounded Up-B: 8 Frames
Turn around Jab: 8 Frames.
Turn around U-tilt: 9 Frames.
Turn around D-smash: 10 Frames
Turn around U-smash: 11 Frames
Back hit of U-tilt: 11 to 12 Frames
Turn around D-tilt: 12 Frames
Turn around Grab: 13 Frames (but unaffected by shield)
F-smash backwards: 15 Frames

So for example, if you see "Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield", this means that technically a turn around D-smash will connect if the opponent tries to shield and you perform everything frame perfectly.
Keep in mind however that you're not perfect, so in all likelihood you will not perform the Bair 1 perfectly by connecting it on your last airborne frame, and if the follow-up requires you to turn around first, you may not only turn around for 1 frame. However your opponent is not perfect either, and the DJ Airdodges listed below are assuming frame perfection.

Bayonetta:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 16
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 10 against spotdodge Bat Within, 14 against spotdodge intangibility.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 11 against spotdodge Bat Within, 15 against spotdodge intangibility.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 13 against spotdodge Bat Within, 17 against spotdodge intangibility.

Bowser:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 16
Airborne Frames: 15
Landing Frames: 6
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 6
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 16 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 6
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against shield, 17 against spotdodge.

Bowser Jr.:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 15 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

Captain Falcon:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 14
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 8 against shield, 10 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 16
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 12 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

Charizard:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 15
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 12 against spotdodge

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against shield, 16 against spotdodge.

Cloud:

Non-Limit:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 15 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against shield, 16 against spotdodge.

Limit:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 16
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 12 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 15 against spotdodge.

Corrin:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 20
-Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 14 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

Dark Pit:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 19 against shield.

Diddy:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 12 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against shield, 15 against spotdodge.

Donkey Kong:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 16
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 13 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 14 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 16 against shield.

Doctor Mario:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 13 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

Duck Hunt:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 25
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 19 against shield.

Falco:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 15
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 11 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 16
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 12 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

Fox:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 11
Landing Frames: 9
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 11 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 12
Landing Frames: 10
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 13
Landing Frames: 10
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

Ganon:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 15
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 15 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 16 against spotdodge.

Greninja:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 11
Landing Frames: 8
Total Frames to Work With: 9 against shield, 10 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 12
Landing Frames: 8
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 11 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 13
Landing Frames: 9
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

Ike:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 15 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

Jigglypuff:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 32
Landing Frames: 2
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 37
Landing Frames: 2
Total Frames to Work With: 16 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 23
Airborne Frames: 39
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 17 against DJ airdodge.

King Dedede:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 16
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 6
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 13 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 6
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 6
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 16 against shield.

Kirby:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 25
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 29
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 31
Landing Frames: 2
Total Frames to Work With: 15 against DJ airdodge.

Link:

If you have no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

If you are on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against shield, 16 against spotdodge.

If you are on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 16 against shield.

Little Mac:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 14 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge, 18 against shield.

Lucario:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 13 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 16 against shield.

Lucas:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 14 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge, 19 against shield.

Lucina:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 8 against Dolphin Slash, 11 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against Dolphin Slash, 13 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 25
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against Dolphin Slash, 14 against DJ airdodge.

Luigi:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 16 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 18 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 26
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 20 against shield.

Mario:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against Up-B, 11 against DJ airdodge, 13 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against Up-B, 12 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against Up-B, 13 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield

Marth:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 8 against Dolphin Slash, 11 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against Dolphin Slash, 13 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 25
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against Dolphin Slash, 14 against DJ airdodge.

Mega Man:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 16
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 12 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 15 against spotdodge.

Meta Knight:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 12 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 15 against shield, 16 against spotdodge.

Mewtwo:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 26
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge.

Mii Fighter:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 16
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 11 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against shield, 15 against spotdodge.

Mii Gunner

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 12 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 18 against shield.

Mii Sword

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against shield, 16 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 16 against shield.

Mr Game and Watch:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 27
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 29
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge.

Ness:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 18 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 25
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge, 19 against shield.

Olimar:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 27
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 29
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 15 against DJ airdodge.

Pac-Man:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 26
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge.

Palutena:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against shield, 16 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge, 16 against shield.

Peach:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 28
Landing Frames: 2
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 30
Landing Frames: 2
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge.

Pikachu:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 16 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge, 18 against shield.

Pit:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 19 against shield.

R.O.B.:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 12 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 14 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

Robin:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 13 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

Rosalina:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 26
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 29
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 32
Landing Frames: 2
Total Frames to Work With: 15 against DJ airdodge.

Roy:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 15
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 11 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 5
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

Ryu:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 15
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 9 against shield, Focus Attack and True Shoryuken, 11 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 16
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, Focus Attack and True Shoryuken, 12 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, Focus Attack and True Shoryuken, 14 against spotdodge.

Samus:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 14 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 16 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 18 against shield.

Sheik:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 13
Landing Frames: 7
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 11 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 15
Landing Frames: 6
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 12 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 6
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

Shulk:

Vanilla

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 13 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

Jump

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 15
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 9 against shield, 11 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

Speed

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 12 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

Shield

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 12
Airborne Frames: 13
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: lol

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 14
Airborne Frames: 15
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 7 against DJ airdodge, 9 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 15
Airborne Frames: 16
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 8 against DJ airdodge, 10 against shield.

Buster

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 13 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

Smash

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 14 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 25
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 15 against DJ airdodge, 19 against shield.

Sonic:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 13 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

Toon Link:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 18 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 27
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 21 against shield.

Villager:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 25
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge, 19 against shield.

Wario:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 17
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against shield, 12 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against shield, 14 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 21
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 15 against shield.

Wii Fit Trainer:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 19
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ airdodge, 13 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 16 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 24
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 18 against shield.

Yoshi:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 17
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 7 against DJ armor, 10 against DJ airdodge, 14 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 23
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 9 against DJ armor, 12 against DJ airdodge, 17 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 25
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against DJ armor, 13 against DJ airdodge, 19 against shield.

Zelda:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 18
Airborne Frames: 22
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 11 against DJ airdodge, 12 against Nayru's Love, 16 against shield.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 26
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 13 against DJ airdodge, 14 against Nayru's Love, 20 against shield.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 21
Airborne Frames: 28
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against DJ airdodge, 15 against Nayru's Love, 22 against shield.

Zero Suit Samus:

If Link has no rage:
Hitstun Frames: 19
Airborne Frames: 16
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 10 against shield, 11 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 100%:
Hitstun Frames: 20
Airborne Frames: 18
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 12 against shield, 13 against spotdodge.

If Link is on 150% or more:
Hitstun Frames: 22
Airborne Frames: 20
Landing Frames: 4
Total Frames to Work With: 14 against shield, 15 against spotdodge.

Sev3n · Oct 26, 2016

Fantastic list. Thank you for your hard work as always, Foxy.

It goes without saying that landing Bair 1 is also good just as a mixup and a "freak out" option, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Many people, including higher level players, will instinctively choose a sub-optimal option on reaction. A lot of times, they don't do anything at all because they don't react fast enough especially if you interrupt something they are doing. I have had a lot of success with landing Bair 1 -> Ftilt and Fsmash even though it is very rarely true, if at all. I've even managed FF Bair 1 -> Uair, which is FAR from true, just because I interrupted his input and he didn't react fast enough.

Utilt is generally the go-to, though. Or Turnaround Jab if you can consistently buffer the turnaround properly. If you come across the situation where you can do landing Bair 1 with a bomb, Bair 1 -> Bomb -> Uair or Fair is a sweet confirm. Sometimes hard to set it up, but I've had it come up.

Dumbfire · Oct 27, 2016

Sev3n said:
If you come across the situation where you can do landing Bair 1 with a bomb, Bair 1 -> Bomb -> Uair or Fair is a sweet confirm. Sometimes hard to set it up, but I've had it come up.

yeah that one is cool here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_x8XxQDyAI&t=5m7s

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Oct 27, 2016

I suppose I should post it here so it doesn't get lost or forgotten.

I was looking into using Link's landing Uair to combo when I noticed I was getting a frame sync. For those who need a quick memory jog, see here http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-syncing.434603/

What I was doing to combo with the Uair was a FH slightly delayed bomb throw down on the opponent, then I'd hold down on the joystick and hit up on the A-stick at the peak of our FH so that it buffered a frame perfect FF on the frame following the Uair.
(The following frame syncs assume you're doing a FF on the frame after the aerial is inputted, which of course can be done automatically by simply holding down on the joystick and inputting the Uair with the A-stick.)

For reference and so you have an idea of when these inputs are being made, we can FF on airborne frame 25 at the earliest out of a FH (though of course FF's at the peak of a jump can be buffered within a four frame window).

Inputting the Uair on airborne frame 24 of the FH (with the FF automatically being activated on frame 25) lets you land on the 7th frame of hitlag (if you hit the opponent's hurtbox obviously), syncing with 4 frames of landing lag, leaving you with 19 frames of lag instead of the normal 23 frames of landing lag.
If you input the Uair on frame 25 you will get a better frame sync, one that makes you land on the 5th frame of hitlag, effectively shaving off 6 frames of your landing lag, leaving you with 17 frames of lag.
And finally, inputting Uair on airborne frame 26 will give you a frame sync that lands on the following frame (the 2nd frame of hitlag), i.e. a perfect frame sync. That syncs 9 frames of your landing lag with the hitlag, leaving you with 14 frames of lag.

That's a 3 frame window to get a frame sync as opposed to the 1 frame window that you usually get without a buffered setup.

Corgi · Oct 30, 2016

I was practicing perfect pivots in training the other day, generally just getting a better feel for Link's grounded movement, when I noticed something really, really freaky. I've tested this with a number of other characters, but I have yet to find one that it works as noticeably as with Link.

If you enter his pivot animation (not perfect pivot-- the slow, turning animation), let the analog reset to neutral position, then tap and hold (very briefly, like a tenth of a second) in the direction Link is facing, and let the analog reset to neutral again, he will literally teleport.

The distance isn't dramatic, but it's enough that it might have some applications. If successful, Link will shoot about 2.5 times his character model's distance in the direction he turned (roughly like, 5 feet-ish, if you think of the distance in real-world units). I theorize that this may have something to do with Link's naturally fast (best, frame-wise) turn animation.

I've found that this opens a few obvious avenues for Link. You can use this while retreating, to then dash right back into neutral unexpectedly. I've found that down smash, in particular, benefits greatly from this movement tech. Link will retain his momentum while performing the downsmash, greatly extending the move's lateral range (this is, assuming c-stick is set to smash, it's very difficult to perform otherwise). Some other moves that this works well with are; jab, down tilt, throwing a bomb, grounded spin attack, jcancelled up smash, up tilt, and even dash grab. If you, after the blink, perform a standing dash grab, the range is deceptively long. While no longer than his normal dash grab, the distance gained from the initial movement makes it harder to react to.

It's essentially a reverse perfect pivot, because you can act out of it instantly. An imperfect pivot, if you will. The only risk involved is in the turning animation itself (which, for Link, is almost negligible), and if you use it while retreating, there's not much risk involved.

Stryker95 · Oct 30, 2016

Corgi said:
(Apologies in advance if this thread doesn't adhere to the thread categories, or if one already exists for this, but I really doubt it.)

I was practicing perfect pivots in training the other day, generally just getting a better feel for Link's grounded movement, when I noticed something really, really freaky. I've tested this with a number of other characters, but I have yet to find one that it works as noticeably as with Link.

If you enter his pivot animation (not perfect pivot-- the slow, turning animation), let the analog reset to neutral position, then tap and hold (very briefly, like a tenth of a second) in the direction Link is facing, and let the analog reset to neutral again, he will literally teleport.

The distance isn't dramatic, but it's enough that it might have some applications. If successful, Link will shoot about 2.5 times his character model's distance in the direction he turned (roughly like, 5 feet-ish, if you think of the distance in real-world units). I theorize that this may have something to do with Link's naturally fast (best, frame-wise) turn animation.

I've found that this opens a few obvious avenues for Link. You can use this while retreating, to then dash right back into neutral unexpectedly. I've found that down smash, in particular, benefits greatly from this movement tech. Link will retain his momentum while performing the downsmash, greatly extending the move's lateral range (this is, assuming c-stick is set to smash, it's very difficult to perform otherwise). Some other moves that this works well with are; jab, down tilt, throwing a bomb, grounded spin attack, jcancelled up smash, up tilt, and even dash grab. If you, after the blink, perform a standing dash grab, the range is deceptively long. While no longer than his normal dash grab, the distance gained from the initial movement makes it harder to react to.

It's essentially a reverse perfect pivot, because you can act out of it instantly. An imperfect pivot, if you will. The only risk involved is in the turning animation itself (which, for Link, is almost negligible), and if you use it while retreating, there's not much risk involved.

I may make a video for this, based on reception.

A user @Zhel found this dash turn a little while back and made some gifs if anyone wants a look.

https://gfycat.com/FrigidPlaintiveBlackmamba

https://gfycat.com/QuerulousMeaslyBullfrog

https://gfycat.com/BrightJoyousCaribou

Also, move to the Meta thread? Just a guess.

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Oct 30, 2016

Corgi said:
(Apologies in advance if this thread doesn't adhere to the thread categories, or if one already exists for this, but I really doubt it.)

I was practicing perfect pivots in training the other day, generally just getting a better feel for Link's grounded movement, when I noticed something really, really freaky. I've tested this with a number of other characters, but I have yet to find one that it works as noticeably as with Link.

If you enter his pivot animation (not perfect pivot-- the slow, turning animation), let the analog reset to neutral position, then tap and hold (very briefly, like a tenth of a second) in the direction Link is facing, and let the analog reset to neutral again, he will literally teleport.

The distance isn't dramatic, but it's enough that it might have some applications. If successful, Link will shoot about 2.5 times his character model's distance in the direction he turned (roughly like, 5 feet-ish, if you think of the distance in real-world units). I theorize that this may have something to do with Link's naturally fast (best, frame-wise) turn animation.

I've found that this opens a few obvious avenues for Link. You can use this while retreating, to then dash right back into neutral unexpectedly. I've found that down smash, in particular, benefits greatly from this movement tech. Link will retain his momentum while performing the downsmash, greatly extending the move's lateral range (this is, assuming c-stick is set to smash, it's very difficult to perform otherwise). Some other moves that this works well with are; jab, down tilt, throwing a bomb, grounded spin attack, jcancelled up smash, up tilt, and even dash grab. If you, after the blink, perform a standing dash grab, the range is deceptively long. While no longer than his normal dash grab, the distance gained from the initial movement makes it harder to react to.

It's essentially a reverse perfect pivot, because you can act out of it instantly. An imperfect pivot, if you will. The only risk involved is in the turning animation itself (which, for Link, is almost negligible), and if you use it while retreating, there's not much risk involved.

I may make a video for this, based on reception.

As stryker said this has been noted before. I'm sorry to tell you however that you don't actually gain any distance from returning the joystick to neutral to get the 'teleport' animation, despite what it looks like. What you are witnessing is the end of the dash turn animation kicking in abruptly during the part of the dash turn animation that shows Link accelerating just before the actual run animation. That's what causes the weird 'teleport' looking thing. There's a 10 frame window in which this will occur.

I ran some tests on it to see if the 'teleport' would in fact shoot Link forwards further than normal. Using Omega Wrecking Crew, I rolled into the ledge then rolled back out so that I was in the same exact spot each time, I then dashed forwards for a set number of frames, entered a dash turn for a set number of frames, and inputted a Jump and another time a D-smash on a specific frame of the dash turn within this 10 frame window. The first time I held forwards on the joystick so there would be no 'teleport', and the second time I allowed for 2 frames of the 'teleport' animation to occur immediately preceding the Jump/D-smash input. The result was that the 'teleport' animation did not move Link any further forward when looking at where Link's feet were in relation to the markings on wrecking crew during the jumpsquat and at the end of the D-smash. If anything, he actually went further if you didn't 'teleport'.

This is simply a case where you're taking advantage of the well known slide that occurs toward the end of a dash turn, and it just so happens to be that with Link if you enter the end of the dash-turn animation during the later third of the dash turn, his animations don't smoothly interlock and so you get what appears to be a teleport.

Corgi · Oct 30, 2016

Fox Is Openly Deceptive said:
This is simply a case where you're taking advantage of the well known slide that occurs toward the end of a dash turn, and it just so happens to be that with Link if you enter the end of the dash-turn animation during the later third of the dash turn, his animations don't smoothly interlock and so you get what appears to be a teleport.

I thought this would be the case, but it does affect his physical position and hurtboxes, no? I mean, even if the teleport doesn't net you any extra distance, it does at least affect Link's placement and allow him that little slide, right? I'm humbled to know this has already been discovered and debunked before I even heard about it though, lol!

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Oct 31, 2016

Corgi said:
I thought this would be the case, but it does affect his physical position and hurtboxes, no? I mean, even if the teleport doesn't net you any extra distance, it does at least affect Link's placement and allow him that little slide, right? I'm humbled to know this has already been discovered and debunked before I even heard about it though, lol!

That was my assumption, yes. I see no reason to believe that it wouldn't actually slightly shift his hurtbox momentarily. That's why I didn't go so far as to say that it had no practical benefit whatsoever, just that you won't 'gain any distance'. The thing is, this would only be the case when comparing holding the joystick out of a dash turn and not doing any actions, and holding the joystick out of a dash turn only to release it in the later third of the dash turn animation and again not do any actions. Otherwise, if you did any actions your hurtbox would be in the same place. So, meh.

And dw. While it had been noted before, I had only debunked it in my head until you posted it on smashboards which forced me to get the specifics.

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Nov 14, 2016

I'm going to try to boil down what is essentially a full day of labbing to tell you the truth about bomb activity and inactivity after being shielded. Forget everything you thought you knew.

Just a reminder that by 'active' I mean 'the bomb will detect enemy hurtboxes' and obviously by 'inactive' I mean 'the bomb will not detect enemy hurtboxes'.

The rules are as follows:
1. Counting from the first frame of the bomb pull animation, if a bomb is shielded on frame 84 or later, then regardless of how the bomb was thrown or z-dropped etc and regardless of how it was shielded, the bomb will be inactive from the moment it touches the shield and will remain inactive.
2. Counting from the first frame of the bomb pull animation, if a bomb is shielded on frame 83 or sooner, then regardless of how the bomb was thrown or z-dropped etc and regardless of how it was shielded, the bomb will become active on frame 84, i.e. it will be inactive until then, and then it will remain active until it comes to a complete rest on the ground or is caught etc, with one exception.
3. The exception to rule 2 is if the bomb is thrown or z-dropped within a shield, i.e. so that on the bomb's first active frame it is already within the shield, and it hits the shield between frames 76 and 83, counting from the first frame of the bomb pull as always. Doing this will cause the bomb to bounce up high and perfectly vertically, and the only active frame will be frame 84. From frame 85, the bomb will be inactive. Note however that the bomb will usually then explode upon hitting ground because it gained enough speed while falling from so high up.

Obviously then what you want to do is hit a shield before frame 84 if you want the added benefit of keeping an active bomb on the field for a few moments longer. To give you an idea of how much time you have to hit a shield with the bomb, here are some examples:
- If you pull a bomb and immediately buffer a soft throw, it will touch the ground first on frame 80.
- The same goes buffering a forward throw (non-smash), only of course it will explode when it lands on frame 80.
- If instead you buffer a smash throw immediately after pulling a bomb it will land and explode on frame 78.
- If you do a FH bomb pull then do a DJ D-throw, it will hit the ground on frame 68.
- If you pull a bomb then immediately shoot an arrow or throw a boomerang, you're already too late to throw the bomb.
- If you do a FH bomb pull, land, dash away slightly then do a JC throw backwards, only the first half of the distance covered by the bomb throw will be able to bounce off a shield and become active again.
- If you do a FH bomb pull then buffer a DJ and throw the bomb forwards, it will bounce off the top of Ganon's full shield on frame 85, so that's a no-go, unless they are on a platform or something.
- If you do a FH bomb pull and throw the bomb immediately before you land, the bomb will land on frame 82.
- If you do a grounded bomb pull then immediately do a SH bomb throw forwards, the Bomb will land on the ground on frame 94, but it can bounce off a shield on or below frame 83, e.g. it will bounce off the top of Mario's full shield on frame 80. So I guess we're looking at it being a bit MU dependent.
- If you do a SH bomb throw forwards to DJ Bomb Pull to immediate bomb throw forwards, the bomb will land on frame 91. This can easily hit shields on or below frame 83.

So essentially, the bomb has to be used almost immediately depending on how long it will take to hit a shield, otherwise the bomb will become inactive upon touching the shield and it will pose no threat to the opponent from that point other than the timed explosion of course.

Note that if the bomb bounces off a shield on or before frame 83 and becomes active again on and after frame 84, this will mean that it can bounce off their shield again, because naturally, bombs bounce off shields when active. Because the second bounce necessarily has to hit their shield on or after frame 84, the bomb will necessarily become inactive as per rule 1, and so it is impossible to get a third bounce.

It's possible that there are scenarios that I didn't test, and I'll let you know when I know, but for now, these are the rules.

Rizen · Nov 21, 2016

You guys should take a look at this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/5dzx5e/comprehensive_smash_4_matchup_chart_for_all/
I find Link's spread decent but a bit pessimistic.

TDK · Dec 3, 2016

This may be the most pointless thing ever, but Link's bomb pull in the air shortens his hurtbox a little (He tucks his legs in slightly). I've yet to find any sort of reasonable application outside of Short Hop Bomb Pull dodging a Hadoken.

I'm gonna lab this just to see what extra stuff we can dodge with this. Results eventually.

Stryker95 · Dec 15, 2016

D-throw to SHUFF.

Foxy's D-throw Follow-up post was only ever intended as a basic starting point. It lists the straight-forward guaranteed punishes. Since then there have been multiple ways developed to get better punishes using unconventional methods. For example it was noted that going for a FH Fair after a D-throw could force a couple of characters to airdodge to avoid it, at which point we could FF and punish their airdodge landing lag with a grounded Up-B. A great idea, but very limited, which is where the SHUFF comes in.

We present the SHUFF, or Short Hop Uair Fast Fall. When you do a D-throw to a buffered SH UAir, if the opponent’s percent is high enough, double jump, double jump airdodge, or attack will not avoid it, but most characters can still airdodge to avoid it. However, (if their percent isn’t too high) if they airdodge they will receive airdodge landing lag. So, in certain percent ranges on certain characters (listed below), if we D-throw, SH UAir, and then FF, we will get a frame advantage on the ground if they airdodge. If they don't airdodge they eat an Uair, which is a decent punish out of a D-throw, especially on some of the characters listed. This can lead into a regrab or in some cases, FSmash. Note that with certain characters at specific percents, the Uair will of course actually be unavoidable; in these cases you'll want to do a slightly delayed Uair out of the SH instead of buffering it, then the rest is the same.

Listed below first are all the characters this does not work on as they can jump or jump airdodge away. The % next to them is the latest percent where after a DThrow, if they airdodge, they will still receive airdodge landing lag, just in case you want to bait them anyway, assuming they are unaware that they have a guaranteed escape option other than airdodge.

Below that are the characters and percent ranges this works on. The first % is where it begins to work from the grab, so before they are D-thrown. To clarify, this will be the lowest percent the opponent can be before the D-throw where their only option to avoid the Uair is to airdodge. Next to this percent I will note the frame advantage we have over the opponent at this point. The following %s are when we start to get the frame advantage listed next to the %. Frame advantages selected are 7 (for jab) 8 (for SA) 10 (for USmash) wherever they can be regrabbed at (due to different spotdodges) and 15 (for FSmash). The last % is where it stops working as they can make an input to receive different land lag or DJ after the airdodge. If they choose to do nothing they will receive airdodge landing lag, which increases the range this SHUFF works. Note again that SH UAir is true on some characters at certain percents, so the UAir may have to be delayed. If so, I have it pointed out in the % ranges to mark at what point a buffered UAir becomes unavoidable.

To quote Foxy in the throws section:

Fox Is Openly Deceptive said:
I would stress at this point that getting a re-grab on the opponent after a SHUFF is arguably the best punish. Yes, F-smash may kill, but the percent range this works in is small. What the re-grab means is more than just a free 6% without pummels. It means that you are conditioning the opponent to not want to airdodge after D-throw. This means that they may start to get hit and even killed in scenarios where they could have otherwise avoided your follow-up with an airdodge. They don't know how large or small the percent window is that you can get a re-grab. Only you do.

Miscellaneous:

Because of Bat Within, Bayonetta gets the frame advantage after it is activated because… reasons.

In Cloud’s DJ animation, his feet pick up which can avoid the UAir, but if he airdodges after the DJ, he gets hit. We can still hit him if he only DJs but we have to follow him a little.

Ness, Lucas, and Mewtwo can drift away during their airdodge to avoid followups.

Characters the D-Throw SHUFF doesn't work on:

Bayonetta: 103%
Bowser: 85%
Charizard: 77%
DK: 123%
Ganon: 112%
Greninja: 83%
Ike: 111%
Jigglypuff: 25%
Luigi: 65%
Mr. G&W: 47%
Pac-Man: 76%
Palutena: 70%
Peach: 50%
Pits: 86%
Robin: 90%
Rosa: 50%
Ryu: 94%
Samus: 73%
TL: 54%
Villager: 72%
WFT: 57%
Yoshi: 69%

Characters the D-Throw SHUFF works on:

BJ: 89% gives 9 frame advantage
94% 11 frames
106% 15 frames
111% 16 frames

CPT Falcon: 79% 5 frames
85% 7 frames
88% 8 frames
94% 10 frames
110% 15 frames
118% 17 frames

Cloud: 78% 7 frames
79% 8 frames
86% 10 frames
101% 15 frames
108% 17 frames

Limit: 78% 4 frames
88% 7 frames
91% 8 frames
97% 10 frames
101% 11 frames
113% 15 frames
121% 17 frames

Corrin: 77% 7 frames
78% 8 frames
84% 10 frames
98% 15 frames
103% 16 frames

Diddy: 75% 7 frames
77% 8 frames
83% 10 frames
86% 11 frames
98% 15 frames
103% 16 frames

Dr. Mario: 77% 12 frames
85% 15 frames
90% 16 frames

Duck Hunt: 74% 7 frames
75% 8 frames
81% 10 frames
84% 11 frames
95% 15 frames
97% 15 frames

Falco: 62% 6 frames
63% 7 frames
66% 8 frames
70% Start delaying UAir
71% 10 frames
74% 11 frames
86% 15 frames
93% 17 frames

Fox: 54% 6 frames
56% 7 frames
59% 8 frames
61% Start delaying UAirs
65% 10 frames
68% 11 frames
79% 15 frames
86% 17 frames

King Dededededede: 95% 1 frame
118% 7 frames
121% 8 frames
125% 9 frames
129% 10 frames
146% 15 frames
152% 16 frames

Kirby: 45% 13 frames
50% 15 frames
54% Start delaying UAir
55% 17 frames

Dark Link: 79% 9 frames
81% 10 frames
96% 15 frames
103% 17 frames

Little Mac: 63% 3 frames
70% Delay UAir
75% 7 frames
78% 8 frames
84% 10 frames
87% 11 frames
99% 15 frames
104% 16 frames

Lucario: 85% 8 frames
89% 10 frames
92% 11 frames
104% 15 frames
106% 15 frames

Lucas: 67% 15 frames
75% Start delaying UAir
76% 18 frames

Mario: 77% 12 frames
85% 15 frames
90% 16 frames

Marcina: 65% 6 frames
66% 7 frames
69% 8 frames
73% Start delaying UAir
75% 10 frames
78% 11 frames
89% 15 frames
96% 17 frames

Mega-Man: 78% 5 frames
85% 7 frames
88% 8 frames
95% 10 frames
110% 15 frames
118% 17 frames

MK: 62% 8 frames
66% 10 frames
69% Start delaying UAir. 11 frames
79% 15 frames
84% 16 frames

Mewtwo: 52% 8 frames
55% 10 frames
58% 11 frames
59% Start delaying UAir
68% 15 frames
70% 15 frames

Brawler: 78% 7 frames
81% 8 frames
87% 10 frames
102% 15 frames
107% 16 frames

Swordfighter: 78% 9 frames
79% 10 frames
94% 15 frames
101% 17 frames

Gunner: 86% 16 frames

Ness: 67% 16 frames
71% 17 frames

Olimar: 46% 10 frames
54% Start delaying UAirs
59% 15 frames
67% 18 frames

Pikachu: 54% 8 frames
55% 9 frames
57% 10 frames
60% 11 frames
61% Start delaying UAir
71% 15 frames
77% 17 frames

ROB: 97% 14 frames
98% 15 frames
100% 15 frames

Roy: 75% 5 frames
80% 7 frames
83% 8 frames
89% 10 frames
104% 15 frames
109% 16 frames

Sheik: 62% 11 frames
73% 15 frames
70% Start delaying UAir
77% 17 frames

Shulk

Vanilla: 78% 11 frames
88% 15 frames
95% 17 frames

Jump: 77% 4 frames
85% 7 frames
88% 8 frames
93% 10 frames
111% 15 frames
119% 17 frames

Speed: 78% 11frames
88% 15 frames
95% 17 frames

Shield: 176% 11 frames
188% 15 frames
198% 17 frames

Buster: 78% 11frames
88% 15 frames
95% 17 frames

Smash: 56% 11 frames
65% 15 frames
72% 17 frames

Sonic: 75% 15 frames
77% 15 frames

Wario: 89% 10 frame advantage
101% 15 frames
103% 15 frames

Zelda: 64% 14 frames
67% 15 frames
71% Start delaying UAir
75% 18 frames

ZSS: 62% 8 frames
66% 10 frames
69% Start delaying UAir 11frames
80% 15 frames
84% 16 frames

Have fun SHUFFling.

Stryker95 · Dec 24, 2016

List of how opponent's projectiles deal with our C4 bomb. If something "wins" then it remains while the other leaves, if something "trades" then they both explode or disappear.

Bayonetta: Bullets go over bomb.

Bowser: Bomb explodes after taking too much damage from flamethrower

BJ: If cannon hits bomb, bomb explodes, otherwise cannon will go over bomb

Mecha-koopa walks through bomb, mecha-koopa will be slowed for a few frames but other than that nothing is affected.

The kart after an Up-B will explode and cause the bomb to explode

Charizard: Bomb will explode once it takes enough damage.

Cloud: Both blade beams trade with bomb.

Corrin: Uncharged Dragon Fang Shot goes over bomb. Fully charged trades with bomb.

Diddy: Peanuts will fly over the bomb. If it lands on the bomb, the bomb wins

Banana will fly over the bomb. If banana lands on the bomb, the bomb wins.

Dr. Mario: Pills can go over bomb. If they hit bomb, bomb wins.

DHD: Can can go over bomb. If they connect then they will trade.

Frisbee goes over bomb. If it hits bomb it will bounce off and neither will explode.

Falco: Laser goes over bomb.

Fox: Laser goes over bomb.

G&W: Bomb beats bacon

Greninja: Bomb beats uncharged Water Shuriken.

Bomb trades once charged. Fully charged and neither explode.

King Dedede: Gordo explodes the bomb, bounces back towards DDD for one bounce.

Link: Arrow goes over bomb, otherwise bomb beats arrow if it hits. Boomerang goes over bomb. Thrown bomb explodes once it hits C4 bomb, C4 bomb does not explode. Thrown bomb can fly over C4 bomb.

Lucario: Uncharged can go over or will lose to bomb. Charged will trade.

Force Palm can go over bomb depending on spacing, otherwise it beats bomb.

Lucas: PK Freeze does not affect bomb.

Bomb beats PK Thunder.

PK Fire trades with bomb.

Luigi: Fireball floats over bomb

Mario: Bomb beats fireballs, fireballs can bounce over bomb

Mega Man: Metal Blade goes over bomb.

Sticky bomb goes over bomb.

Bomb will beat one leaf and the rest will go over.

Pellets go over bomb.

Mewtwo: Uncharged Shadowball floats up and down and can float over bomb, if it his, bomb wins.

Once charged enough, Shadowball will start to trade with bomb if it hits.

Ness: PK Flash causes bomb to explode.

Bomb causes PK Fire to explode and will stay active.

PK Thunder causes bomb to explode.

Olimar: Pikmin toss: Pikmin go over bombs and then bring the bomb to Olimar. Purple beats bomb.

FSmash (and other Pikmin attacks): Pikmin go over bomb and do not bring it back. Purple beats bomb.

Pac-Man: Hydrant beats bomb.

Cherry can go over bomb, if it hits then it bounces up and bomb does not explode.

Strawberry can go over bomb, if it hits it causes bomb to explode and then bounces up.

Orange cannot go over bomb, it causes bomb to explode and then bounces up.

Apple can bounce over bomb, if it hits it causes the bomb to explode and bounces up.

Melon can float over bomb at mid range. If close or very far it will hit and cause the bomb to explode and then bounce up.

Galaga beats bomb.

Bell can bounce over bomb or just beat it.

Key beats bomb.

Palutena: Autoreticle (neutral B) goes over bomb.

Peach: Turnips bounce after hitting bomb, bomb explodes

Pikachu: Thunder Jolt can hop over bomb. Otherwise they trade.

Thunder will cause the bomb to explode.

Pits: Arrow goes over bomb. If directed into bomb, bomb wins.

ROB: Laser goes over bomb

Gyro bounces off of bomb and bomb explodes

Robin: All variations of Neutral B go over bomb.

Side-B can go over bomb, if it connects bomb will lose after taking enough damage.

Bomb beats Elwind.

Ryu: All forms of Hadouken go over bomb.

Samus: Missals fly over bomb.

If charged shot is large enough to reach bomb, they will trade. Otherwise it will fly over the bomb.

Sheik: Needles go over bomb.

Grenade can pull in bomb. If it explodes on bomb, both will explode. If it lands on the bomb, neither will explode and grenade will carry on with its animation.

Tink: Arrow goes over bomb, otherwise bomb beats arrow if it hits. Boomerang stops at bomb and then goes back to Tink. C4 bomb beats Tink’s thrown bomb, does not go over C4 bomb.

Villager: Loid rocket trades with bomb.

Fair and Bair will go over bomb.

Tree beats bomb.

Wario: Riding his bike over the bomb will cause it to explode and for him to get hit off the bike, the bike will still drive forward. If he does a wheelie, however, the bomb will not explode and Wario will remain on his bike.

If Wario throws his bike onto the bomb the bomb will explode, the bike, depending on its health, will either explode or stay intact.

WFT: Soccer ball will cause bomb to explode and then fly back towards WFT.

Sun salutation goes over bomb.

Zelda: Din’s Fire goes over bomb. If Din’s Fire explodes above the bomb, bomb wins.

Phantom pushes the bomb away from Zelda. If the bomb is in range of the Phantom’s sword during the swing animation, Phantom wins.

ZSS: Blaster goes over bomb

IMßA · Dec 27, 2016

Quick question guys. Yesterday I was playing some matches with my brother, and twice in the same set I accidentally jab-locked him with jab 1. The first time I had my back to him as he missed his tech behind me.. the second time I.. honestly don't even know how it happened. I was sure that Link's jab could not jablock.. so what's the deal?

Stryker95 · Dec 27, 2016

IMßA said:
Quick question guys. Yesterday I was playing some matches with my brother, and twice in the same set I accidentally jab-locked him with jab 1. The first time I had my back to him as he missed his tech behind me.. the second time I.. honestly don't even know how it happened. I was sure that Link's jab could not jablock.. so what's the deal?

There is a small hitbox that can Jab lock.

TDK · Dec 27, 2016

Quick question.

How much do you all use Bombs? I feel like I go for Bomb Pull too much, considering I do it every time I think it's safe.

Dumbfire · Dec 27, 2016

TDK said:
Quick question.

How much do you all use Bombs? I feel like I go for Bomb Pull too much, considering I do it every time I think it's safe.

I covered an important element of this recently in a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBLN2U4j4kE&t=8ms

Don't always draw a bomb when you are offstage, because once you get to the ledge you are limiting your ledge get-ups, and Link is very vulnerable to ledge trapping already. If the opponent is not going to chase after you off-stage -- is, in other words, gonna let you get to the ledge for free, as so many do nowadays (gimping isn't so hot anymore), there is no reason to draw a bomb and limit your own options at the ledge.

Within neutral game don't draw too many, or at least not carelessly, because it is a very long animation. You say right when you "think" it's safe, but it's an extremely long animation that does put you in predictable spots, see here for a nice chase of a seemingly fairly safe bomb pull for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCgDxhfKEoY&t=3m17s

Also if you do it all the time when you think it's safe obviously it's a bit too linear and it removes a sense of pressure and surprise from your game.

But the real answer is -- who knows? Use it as much as you feel wise. Hyrule Hero barely pulls bombs; Cat pulls a lot. Whatever. Use with caution, with the opposing player, the match-up and your particular mental state in mind.

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Dec 27, 2016

IMßA said:
Quick question guys. Yesterday I was playing some matches with my brother, and twice in the same set I accidentally jab-locked him with jab 1. The first time I had my back to him as he missed his tech behind me.. the second time I.. honestly don't even know how it happened. I was sure that Link's jab could not jablock.. so what's the deal?

As Stryker said. Specifically it's the two hitboxes attached to his arm that can lock, as they have 361 degree 'sakurai angles', just like Nair and Arrows. The trouble is they have low priority, so you have to miss the hitboxes on the sword completely, making Jab 1 pretty useless for locking practically speaking. http://i.imgur.com/F5psssK.jpg

IMßA · Dec 28, 2016

Thanks for clearing that up guys!

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Jan 3, 2017

The Triple Jump.

Use up your DJ in any way at any point, pull a bomb, but make sure to time your bomb pull so that the FAF of the bomb pull is also your last airborne frame (it will create an extra 'airborne' frame in which you will come into contact with the ground and otherwise should have landed, which will replenish your DJ and on the same frame, being the FAF, you will be able to use it). If you do this correctly, you will be able to use another DJ without landing, i.e. a triple jump (TJ).

Unfortunately because it takes too long for Link to get rid of the bomb, under normal circumstances you will be limited to just using a TJ and will not be able to do this trick more than once, let alone indefinitely, however if you make use of platforms for example, then sure, technically you can keep doing it until you can't go any lower.

Because it requires frame perfection when inputting the bomb pull after a DJ (meaning that buffered setups are more or less out of the picture), it's going to be very difficult to find any reliable way to pull this off.

Having just said that here's what I came up with in 2 minutes. You do a FH buffered bomb pull, buffer a DJ and immediately throw the bomb in any direction (for throwing it down you need to throw it on the 5th frame of DJ; any other direction you want to throw it on the 3rd frame of the DJ), then buffer another bomb pull and buffer the TJ. It's actually surprisingly possible if I do say so myself.

I believe it was first stumbled upon here https://mobile.twitter.com/anzurizuri/status/815458920630128640

Rizen · Jan 3, 2017

Fox Is Openly Deceptive said:
The Triple Jump.

Use up your DJ in any way at any point, pull a bomb, but make sure to time your bomb pull so that the FAF of the bomb pull is also your last airborne frame. If you do this correctly, you will be able to use another DJ, i.e. a triple jump (TJ).

Unfortunately because it takes too long for Link to get rid of the bomb, under normal circumstances you will be limited to just using a TP and will not be able to do this trick more than once, let alone indefinitely, however if you make use of platforms for example, then sure, technically you can keep doing it until you can't go any lower.

Because it requires frame perfection when inputting the bomb pull after a DJ (meaning that buffered setups are more or less out of the picture), it's going to be very difficult to find any reliable way to pull this off.

Having just said that here's what I came up with in 2 minutes. You do a FH buffered bomb pull, buffer a DJ and immediately throw the bomb in any direction (for throwing it down you need to throw it on the 5th frame of DJ; any other direction you want to throw it on the 3rd frame of the DJ), then buffer another bomb pull and buffer the TP. It's actually surprisingly possible if I do say so myself.

So it's like Bowser's Klaw jump in Brawl? Does this work with other specials? Good find!

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Jan 3, 2017

Rizen said:
So it's like Bowser's Klaw jump in Brawl? Does this work with other specials? Good find!

Exactly.
No it doesn't work with his other specials.

Catana · Jan 3, 2017

guys stfu about this until the switch release

VuraLoL · Jan 4, 2017

There is a specific technique that I use sometimes to gimp characters with bad vertical recoveries.
Such as corrin or mario

Works on every char. It's essentially just hitting with the last few active frames from Dair into a footstool

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l2vt8g3tmkxmjug/Datei 04.01.17, 03 57 16.mov?dl=0

Rizen · Jan 21, 2017

I found a tier list of grab ranges, tested to the pixel. IDK if it can be used here or not.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Z8vdc/edit?pageId=103632427675021916651#gid=0

LouLouXz · Jan 24, 2017

Dumbfire said:
I covered an important element of this recently in a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBLN2U4j4kE&t=8ms

Don't always draw a bomb when you are offstage, because once you get to the ledge you are limiting your ledge get-ups, and Link is very vulnerable to ledge trapping already. If the opponent is not going to chase after you off-stage -- is, in other words, gonna let you get to the ledge for free, as so many do nowadays (gimping isn't so hot anymore), there is no reason to draw a bomb and limit your own options at the ledge.

Within neutral game don't draw too many, or at least not carelessly, because it is a very long animation. You say right when you "think" it's safe, but it's an extremely long animation that does put you in predictable spots, see here for a nice chase of a seemingly fairly safe bomb pull for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCgDxhfKEoY&t=3m17s

Also if you do it all the time when you think it's safe obviously it's a bit too linear and it removes a sense of pressure and surprise from your game.

But the real answer is -- who knows? Use it as much as you feel wise. Hyrule Hero barely pulls bombs; Cat pulls a lot. Whatever. Use with caution, with the opposing player, the match-up and your particular mental state in mind.

Another quick question to follow-up your answer.
You say in your critique video that pulling a bomb offstage when you're close enough to the stage to safely recover without worrying about getting gimped is unnecessary, to which i agree. But if you're feeling pressured at the ledge by a threatening edgeguarding game from your opponent, would pulling a bomb and timing the explosion during your ledge option's i-frames a good mixup to get back to stage safely, even at the range you specified not to pull a bomb?(not right next to the stage, but let's say just outside tether range..?)

Dumbfire · Jan 25, 2017

LouLouXz said:
Another quick question to follow-up your answer.
You say in your critique video that pulling a bomb offstage when you're close enough to the stage to safely recover without worrying about getting gimped is unnecessary, to which i agree. But if you're feeling pressured at the ledge by a threatening edgeguarding game from your opponent, would pulling a bomb and timing the explosion during your ledge option's i-frames a good mixup to get back to stage safely, even at the range you specified not to pull a bomb?(not right next to the stage, but let's say just outside tether range..?)

That sort of things is all up to your own discretion. It is a viable mix-up, to be sure, entirely depending on opponent. At higher level, having very many mix-ups at the ledge is best, especially if the opponent is unfamiliar with both Link and you as a player. If he is familiar with you or Link, perhaps keep it simple, as you will not catch him off-guard too much. I am not here to say: this 1 option is it, do that; only to warn you not to do the same thing every time, especially when it is far from ideal, as is being at the ledge with a bomb.

DarkDeity15 · Feb 8, 2017

There is a way after all to intentionally jab lock an opponent, and that's by perfect pivot jabbing. And just so you know, I was messing around in training mode when I got Nair lock to perfect pivot jab lock to work. I took this to Discord for discussion. Here's a gify:
https://gfycat.com/HardSoupyErne

And here's what

Fox Is Openly Deceptive has to say about it:

"Ftr, yes, you can do a PP Jab after a Nair lock and get a Jab lock, and then you can do a PP Jab after the Jab lock and get another Jab lock, against the likes of DK at least. Is it worth the extra 5% and distance you move the character forward? probably not considering you'd be giving up some time to charge F-smash or whatever.

It at least got me interested in the idea of using PP Jab to lock, so I looked into the possibility of e.g. standing underneath a platform, doing a SH Nair to force a ledge slip, FFing, then doing a PP Jab lock. What I found was that while we do have the time to do this, the PP Jab lock is extremely inconsistent at best, and you're giving up a guaranteed roughly 30 frame window to punish counting from the end of the Nair landing lag up to when they can act after the untechable ledge slip, to possibly get a 47 frame window to punish that in reality will probably not work because the PP Jab will likely miss entirely.

tl;dr - at this stage, going for PP Jab lock is not worth it imo."

This is what Sandbag had to say:

"Decided to try it out, on DK specifically I found it could be useful since after the jabs you can get the Bair combos and what not. Also if you want to move an opponent closer to ledge, though I'm sure the charge time >> how close you are to the ledge. If you're doing those Double Dair combos afterwards. I could see applications against heavies (ig) for maximum % since stuff won't kill but overall seems like a really messy inconsistent negligible optimization, though it has inspired me a bit. Interesting to note but I doubt it'll be used TL;DR Foxy is right, go figure lol."

Rizen · Feb 8, 2017

DarkDeity15 said:
There is a way after all to intentionally jab lock an opponent, and that's by perfect pivot jabbing. Here's a gify:
https://gfycat.com/HardSoupyErne

And here's what Fox Is Openly Deceptive has to say about it:

"Ftr, yes, you can do a PP Jab after a Nair lock and get a Jab lock, and then you can do a PP Jab after the Jab lock and get another Jab lock, against the likes of DK at least. Is it worth the extra 5% and distance you move the character forward? probably not considering you'd be giving up some time to charge F-smash or whatever.

It at least got me interested in the idea of using PP Jab to lock, so I looked into the possibility of e.g. standing underneath a platform, doing a SH Nair to force a ledge slip, FFing, then doing a PP Jab lock. What I found was that while we do have the time to do this, the PP Jab lock is extremely inconsistent at best, and you're giving up a guaranteed roughly 30 frame window to punish counting from the end of the Nair landing lag up to when they can act after the untechable ledge slip, to possibly get a 47 frame window to punish that in reality will probably not work because the PP Jab will likely miss entirely.

tl;dr - at this stage, going for PP Jab lock is not worth it imo."

This is what Sandbag had to say:

"Decided to try it out, on DK specifically I found it could be useful since after the jabs you can get the Bair combos and what not. Also if you want to move an opponent closer to ledge, though I'm sure the charge time >> how close you are to the ledge. If you're doing those Double Dair combos afterwards. I could see applications against heavies (ig) for maximum % since stuff won't kill but overall seems like a really messy inconsistent negligible optimization, though it has inspired me a bit. Interesting to note but I doubt it'll be used TL;DR Foxy is right, go figure lol."

Is the alternative an arrow after the Nair?

DarkDeity15 · Feb 8, 2017

Rizen said:
Is the alternative an arrow after the Nair?

For the most part, yes. While it is possible to get two perfect pivot jab locks in a row, it's very difficult to master and you will probably miss it a lot. Going for two pp jab locks is pointless since you're putting in a lot of work for less damage (2.5% for jab 1 (so 5% for two jab locks) as opposed to 4% for an arrow), and on top of that it's usually only gunna work on larger characters. I can see this being used to squeeze in an extra 2.5% (and some style points) in a footstool combo against some characters though with Nair lock > perfect pivot jab lock > arrow lock. Otherwise I don't think it it'll be used often.

Edit: Oops, misunderstood you there lol.

Rizen · Feb 8, 2017

Yeah that seems needlessly risky.

This isn't related to the jab specifically but after a lock does Link have time to land Dsmash2?

DarkDeity15 · Feb 9, 2017

Rizen said:
Yeah that seems needlessly risky.

This isn't related to the jab specifically but after a lock does Link have time to land Dsmash2?

Yeah. You can either choose to do it uncharged to hit them before the forced get-up animation or you can charge it to hit them after.

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Feb 12, 2017

A fun idea just occurred to me.

Against Fox between 0 and 8%, and Greninja between 0 and 9% (no rage), if you manage to get a grab near a bomb (e.g. z-drop then a slightly delayed grab to make sure the bomb isn't still active when you reel them in), you can do:

D-throw, SH buffered Z-catch, instant grounded footstool (short footstool), buffered bomb d-throw, FF at the peak and move towards them to re-footstool (short footstool again), to easy Nair FF Lock, to fun.

It's all unavoidable if you do it right, but doing it right will be difficult. You have been warned.

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Feb 13, 2017

A few recent things I have forgotten to post publicly:

The chance of dropping an item when you get hit is 1.5 x the damage the hit does, regardless of what percent you are on etc.
So if you get hit by a move that does 1%, you have a 1.5% chance of dropping the item. If the move does 10% damage, you have a 15% chance of dropping the item. If you get hit by Marth's final smash which does 60%, you have a 90% chance of dropping the item, etc.

There is also a random chance of causing the opponent to trip if you hit them so long as the following conditions are met, and this will work even with moves that don't have a set chance of tripping.
If a move does enough knockback to induce 21 frames of hitstun or more and the opponent remains on the ground, there is a chance they will trip. If you're using moves with a Sakurai angle, you can only go up to inducing 22 frames of hitstun; at 23 frames of hitstun, partly because of the way Sakurai angles work (they knock the opponent higher as their knockback increases) the knockback become such that the opponent starts getting lifted into the air for a split second, and so no longer has a chance of tripping.

It is possible to SDI into the ground and severely negate the knockback of a move that hit you when you were slightly above the ground, allowing you to survive in situations where you otherwise wouldn't be able to. A good example of this is Pikachu's U-throw to Thunder. If Link is between 115 and 125%, you can SDI the thunder hit down into the ground and be totally fine.
Related to this, you can SDI down out of Mewtwo's U-smash to avoid the final hit.

Interesting thing to note about footstooling and stuff like it is that the opponent cannot drift left or right after a footstool if you footstool them out of hitstun and the hitstun would have otherwise still been in effect at that point. They regain control once their hitstun would have worn off.
Related to this, if you hit someone and they land during hitstun, they will continue to experience landing lag until that hitstun otherwise would have worn off. This is more noticeable on the likes of Fox who can sometimes go through a really long landing lag duration.

FFing is locked for an amount of frames while jumping, allowing you to FF once you've reached the peak of your jump, but if that jump is boosted by e.g. FLUDD, you can still FF on the same frame that you otherwise would have been able to, and won't have to wait till the peak. You have a slight buffer window to FF, allowing you to input it up to 3 frames before you're otherwise able to so long as you hold down, and this counts for FFing out of your own hitlag too.

Some of you may have seen the thing talking about footstooling someone out of a pratfall (i.e. out of a forced ledge-slip). Just letting you know that this can in fact be useful, but only against the characters in the cast that would otherwise be able to act before they land out of the ledge slip (because they are floaty) and would therefore otherwise be unable to be locked or punished for the untechable landing.

... I can't remember the other things atm.

LouLouXz · Feb 16, 2017

After watching esam's video showing what chars can do if they steal megaman's metalblade, I was wondering if any of you have already labbed optimal follow ups for each of the situation where you manage to steal/catch:
-Pacman's fruits
-Diddy's banana, diddy's peanut
-Tink's bombs
-Robin's books (very rare, i'll give you that)
- megaman's metalblade
- villager's piece of wood
- have i forgotten anything?

It seems like quite a bit of work, but it might make a difference, if any of those lead, say, to a guaranteed fair or dash attack?

VuraLoL · Feb 17, 2017

Fox Is Openly Deceptive said:
Interesting thing to note about footstooling and stuff like it is that the opponent cannot drift left or right after a footstool if you footstool them out of hitstun and the hitstun would have otherwise still been in effect at that point. They regain control once their hitstun would have worn off.

Hypothetical Situation:

Consider an indirect bomb hit to have 50 frames Hitstun. I footstool my oponnent at frame 30. It takes 10 Frames for him to touch the ground, in this case he would be grounded frame 40.

Does this mean that he was unable to DI that footstool (Frame 30-39)? This would change Mid % lock combos or tech chases heavily imo.

BUT only if the bomb deals noticeable amount of Hitstun aka Knockback, which in most cases it will not and when it does we get more off of those. Do u know any % ranges where we can get Di-less footstools?

If not i can definitely find some % ranges with the kurogane Calculator. I would just need info on fall speeds. hmm...

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Feb 17, 2017

VuraLoL said:
Hypothetical Situation:

Consider an indirect bomb hit to have 50 frames Hitstun. I footstool my oponnent at frame 30. It takes 10 Frames for him to touch the ground, in this case he would be grounded frame 40.

Does this mean that he was unable to DI that footstool (Frame 30-39)?

Yes. He would be unable to drift left or right before being forced to land without teching.

VuraLoL said:
Do u know any % ranges where we can get Di-less footstools?

As long as you footstool after the bomb soon enough and close enough to the ground, you can do it from 0% even.

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Feb 28, 2017

For the last two weeks I've been busy labbing and editing to update the D-throw follow-up post. There will always be more I could do, but for now, it is ready. I've added things like guaranteed Sourspot Uair follow-ups, Platform Drop Fair, and SHUFF among a few other little things. I made a decent amount of corrections and other additions too. Then I completely re-did the second spoilers within each character spoiler. It used to contain a summarised version of all the text for each character to show generally what you can do and what you should do, but I've now split this up into a 'guaranteed' and 'recommended' section with all the new follow-ups and corrections taken into account. I would highly recommend that everyone look over this post again as it is, for all intents and purposes, a new post.
https://smashboards.com/threads/lin...-found-in-the-op.379659/page-35#post-20457552
I still need to go through and update the 'ratings' but they are unimportant and can wait.

Rizen · Mar 17, 2017

There's a jab cancel Pac Man can do that only works on Mewtwo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJXtZv0YZlc
Looking at Link's jab 2 frame data he should be able to pull this off on Mewtwo too.

Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

Smash Detective

Smash Cadet

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory

Smash Detective

Smash Cadet

Smash Journeyman

Smash Detective

Smash Cadet

Smash Detective

Smash Detective

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Rookie

Smash Journeyman

Smash Master

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory

Smash Detective

Smash Rookie

Smash Detective

Smash Legend

Smash Detective

Smash Journeyman

Smash Rookie

Smash Legend

Smash Rookie

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

Smash Detective

Smash Detective

Smash Rookie

Smash Rookie

Smash Detective

Smash Detective

Smash Legend

Information

Network