Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

[W O N D E R]

Link's nair is amazing, it can stop ganondorfs shadow kick, stop toon link's boomerang, and it has range from behind him, not to mention you can spam it and it can mess people up.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

It really is amazing. I'm not sure what the frame data is but in terms of range and priority it's a better version of Fox's Nair. I've played the matchup enough to know that Link's Nair beats Fox's somehow.

 

[Elessar]

I've played the matchup enough to know that Link's Nair beats Fox's somehow.

Iron boots. Fox puts his metal on his shins like a noob. Link has them on his toes and soles like a baws.

 

[Rizen]

Nair has always been a great move. It's a good chain breaker and beats most projectiles.
Assuming Nair has the same hitbubbles as Brawl, and they might be slightly different, it looks like this:

I tested what stage elements are affected by Link's bombs and Dair bounce. Link can throw bombs at non-platform breakable stage elements (so the pillars in Luigi's Mansion and stick barriers in Garden of hope) and enemies and the explosion won't hurt him. Breakable platforms like in Sky world, YI etc will have the explosion hurt him.
Link can Dair and bounce off anything with a hurtbox. This is a great way to auto cancel Dair, bounce off breakable platforms.

 

[W O N D E R]

Nair has always been a great move. It's a good chain breaker and beats most projectiles.
Assuming Nair has the same hitbubbles as Brawl, and they might be slightly different, it looks like this:

I tested what stage elements are affected by Link's bombs and Dair bounce. Link can throw bombs at non-platform breakable stage elements (so the pillars in Luigi's Mansion and stick barriers in Garden of hope) and enemies and the explosion won't hurt him. Breakable platforms like in Sky world, YI etc will have the explosion hurt him.
Link can Dair and bounce off anything with a hurtbox. This is a great way to auto cancel Dair, bounce off breakable platforms.

Dair offstage is one of Link's most risky moves due to missing and a recovery that doesn't go up high, for me, I just spam projectiles and throw bombs offstage.

 

[link7]

Dair offstage is one of Link's most risky moves due to missing and a recovery that doesn't go up high, for me, I just spam projectiles and throw bombs offstage.

It's way safer to use in this game than it was in Melee. His recovery is that much better.

 

[General Tsao]

Dair offstage is one of Link's most risky moves due to missing and a recovery that doesn't go up high, for me, I just spam projectiles and throw bombs offstage.

If you short hop before going offstage, you can throw out a Dair and since it stays out for so long, it'll cover a lot of area/time. As long as you're not fastfalling the Dair, it should be pretty easy to recover.

 

[Zelkam]

So my brother and I discovered a gimmicky little AT today. If you pull out a bomb when you get hit with a reflected gale boomerang and then jump and throw it up or down it will fly at an angle. What seems to be happening is the bomb's trajectory is being by affected by the gale despite the fact that the gale is already gone. We tested this on a few different stages and with a few different reflectors and they all had the same results. We were only able to test this on the 3DS version at the moment so I'm unsure if this works on the Wii U version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhwbVoJaerI

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I've seen something similar before in Brawl where you catch a Bobomb with Gay's Dair and after you've landed you throw it up resulting in the Bobomb flying off diagonally up and backwards due to being hit by the landing wind/momentum hitbox of Dair. There seems to be a mechanic in items that have their own health and hurtbox that allows them to get hit by (certain) wind/momentum hitboxes under certain conditions even if you're holding them and then they retain that boost for much longer than you do. Anyway, that's a much more realistic usage of this mechanic Zelkam, so good find.

Edit: I'm yet to replicate the same effect on the Wii-U version. There may be the slightest difference, but it's nowhere near the effect seen in the vid. @ Zelkam : Is there some specific timing involved?

 

[Zelkam]

I've seen something similar before in Brawl where you catch a Bobomb with Gay's Dair and after you've landed you throw it up resulting in the Bobomb flying off diagonally up and backwards due to being hit by the landing wind/momentum hitbox of Dair. There seems to be a mechanic in items that have their own health and hurtbox that allows them to get hit by (certain) wind/momentum hitboxes under certain conditions even if you're holding them and then they retain that boost for much longer than you do. Anyway, that's a much more realistic usage of this mechanic Zelkam, so good find.

Edit: I'm yet to replicate the same effect on the Wii-U version. There may be the slightest difference, but it's nowhere near the effect seen in the vid. @ Zelkam : Is there some specific timing involved?

I was afraid that it might not work on the Wii U. I would say that timing seems to be a bit sooner than later. I got the most consistent results when I pulled the bomb just before the gale hit me.

After Christmas I'll be able to test it out on the Wii U myself. Idiot me didn't bring my copy home with me so I have to wait until my brothers open there's.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I was afraid that it might not work on the Wii U. I would say that timing seems to be a bit sooner than later. I got the most consistent results when I pulled the bomb just before the gale hit me.

After Christmas I'll be able to test it out on the Wii U myself. Idiot me didn't bring my copy home with me so I have to wait until my brothers open there's.

Yeah I don't know what to say. I can't get it to work. If someone is able to prove me wrong I'd be very happy, but for now it doesn't look like it works on the Wii-U for some reason.

 

[W O N D E R]

Link is actually pretty hard to go up against a Fox, F's airgame is complicated (for me)

Should I keep using Sonic or stick with Link?
They both seem equal, Link can spam projectiles to prevent Sonic, and Sonic doesn't have any range moves, but I lose most of the time with Link due to fast characters like Fox but using Sonic makes there thinking short-timed.

 

[Elessar]

Link is actually pretty hard to go up against a Fox, F's airgame is complicated (for me)

Should I keep using Sonic or stick with Link?
They both seem equal, Link can spam projectiles to prevent Sonic, and Sonic doesn't have any range moves, but I lose most of the time with Link due to fast characters like Fox but using Sonic makes there thinking short-timed.

May I enquire as to the reason you decided to talk about MU in the Metagame thread? What's more, you're not even contributing to the actual MU or even asking something about the MU. You're waiting for us to validate your tier whoring. I mean really? Is that your question, should I switch to Sonic? It's not "how should I fight this MU" or "how does Link compete against Fox's air game". No, instead you asked "should I change to a perceived high tier for an easy win".

Do not spam our threads with off topic scrub posts such as this. If you want to talk about MU then do it on the right thread. If you want to be a tier wench then go somewhere else.

 

[W O N D E R]

May I enquire as to the reason you decided to talk about MU in the Metagame thread? What's more, you're not even contributing to the actual MU or even asking something about the MU. You're waiting for us to validate your tier whoring. I mean really? Is that your question, should I switch to Sonic? It's not "how should I fight this MU" or "how does Link compete against Fox's air game". No, instead you asked "should I change to a perceived high tier for an easy win".
Do not spam our threads with off topic scrub posts such as this. If you want to talk about MU then do it on the right thread. If you want to be a tier wench then go somewhere else.

Second time I seen a moderator do this to someone.
You could've deleted the comment (If you have the ability) and PM'ed me about this situation, I totally forgot this was the metagame thread, no need to be harsh with the "scrub" and "b****" part.

They should really add a delete comment option, faster than telling a moderator to come and delete it, not to mention if they're busy. I know there are reasons why there aren't a delete option, but hey, im still new, its not like people are going to see the sticky notes on the forum right away, there are most people where this is there first forum they came into, they don't know where to go. You could've just PM'ed me a warning, I really forgot it was the strategy thead.

 

[Genix]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but what do you guys think about the current stage list? Link seems to be really good on Town & City, since there is so much space and he can really take advantage of the high platforms. Against characters with bad aerial mobility you can just camp on the high platforms and safely set up projectiles; they are almost unable to approach you. Duck Hunt is probably pretty decent for link too, although the ducks can get in the way of projectiles.

 

[Catana]

Second time I seen a moderator do this to someone.
You could've deleted the comment (If you have the ability) and PM'ed me about this situation, I totally forgot this was the metagame thread, no need to be harsh with the "scrub" and "b****" part.

They should really add a delete comment option, faster than telling a moderator to come and delete it, not to mention if they're busy. I know there are reasons why there aren't a delete option, but hey, im still new, its not like people are going to see the sticky notes on the forum right away, there are most people where this is there first forum they came into, they don't know where to go. You could've just PM'ed me a warning, I really forgot it was the strategy thead.

Or maybe you should grow some skin and kneel to your superiors when you know you're new instead of acting like a tier whoring little *****.
This is the Link boards, and you would do well not to forget it; the way we teach you things are with harsh, but honest words.
I dont care what time of the year it is, but I will not allow christmas to be an excuse for all you newfaggots to come here and being dumb scrubs on our boards without getting properly punished for it.
Also, you're an idiot for ''forgetting'' this was a metagame thread. Like, seriously.

Now get out of those girl clothes and dress up like a man already

 

[Elessar]

Second time I seen a moderator do this to someone.
You could've deleted the comment (If you have the ability) and PM'ed me about this situation, I totally forgot this was the metagame thread, no need to be harsh with the "scrub" and "b****" part.

They should really add a delete comment option, faster than telling a moderator to come and delete it, not to mention if they're busy. I know there are reasons why there aren't a delete option, but hey, im still new, its not like people are going to see the sticky notes on the forum right away, there are most people where this is there first forum they came into, they don't know where to go. You could've just PM'ed me a warning, I really forgot it was the strategy thead.

You want a warning? Ok, I can do that. I won't however delete your post nor will I treat you like the baby you seem to be because that's not how we do things here on the Link Boards. Go read the rules and the survival tips. I would say again, but I'm pretty sure you never read them. We don't play nice here, so if you can't some flames every now and then I suggest you leave and find another main. Maybe Sonic, a scrub once told me Sonic does well against Fox.

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but what do you guys think about the current stage list? Link seems to be really good on Town & City, since there is so much space and he can really take advantage of the high platforms. Against characters with bad aerial mobility you can just camp on the high platforms and safely set up projectiles; they are almost unable to approach you. Duck Hunt is probably pretty decent for link too, although the ducks can get in the way of projectiles.

I like the current stage list actually. To be honest, the only three stages I've take out are the same I hated back in Brawl: Halberd, Castle Siege, and Lylat Cruise. My favorite stages are by far Smashville and Town & City. I just feel that Link does well on those stages since the blast zones are decently placed for an easy KO and the platforms give greater freedom when spamming and recovering.

 

[General Tsao]

I like the current stage list actually. To be honest, the only three stages I've take out are the same I hated back in Brawl: Halberd, Castle Siege, and Lylat Cruise. My favorite stages are by far Smashville and Town & City. I just feel that Link does well on those stages since the blast zones are decently placed for an easy KO and the platforms give greater freedom when spamming and recovering.

Is there an an official current stage list yet for Smash 4, or does it vary with TO - the Stage Analysis & Discussion Thread doesn't seem to have an "official" one yet, but 2 well-thought out opinions: http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-analysis-discussion-thread.367708/

 

[Elessar]

Is there an an official current stage list yet for Smash 4, or does it vary with TO - the Stage Analysis & Discussion Thread doesn't seem to have an "official" one yet, but 2 well-thought out opinions: http://smashboards.com/threads/stage-analysis-discussion-thread.367708/

Well those two would be the "official" one. Stage Lists have always varied from TO to TO, the official list being more of a suggestion. So far the 100% accepted ones seem to be Halberd, LC, Smashville, Town & City, Duck Hunt, Castle siege, BF, FD, and all omega stages.

So I stumbled upon this video on true comboes based on platform slides (Link's combo is at 2:05). It seems to be really good and have potential for interesting variations and follow ups. What do you guys think?

 

[Dumbfire]

Actually, the current Dutch stage list employed by our biggest tournament doesn't have Duck Hunt, but does have Delfino, Skyloft and Kongo Jungle 64. There's also one that has only three legal stages, but you know Europeans love their small stage lists.

 

[Elessar]

The scene in Paraguay with the exception of my tourney is only Omega stages. I cry.

 

[BrimeZ]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but what do you guys think about the current stage list? Link seems to be really good on Town & City, since there is so much space and he can really take advantage of the high platforms. Against characters with bad aerial mobility you can just camp on the high platforms and safely set up projectiles; they are almost unable to approach you. Duck Hunt is probably pretty decent for link too, although the ducks can get in the way of projectiles.

The majority of players that you will play in tournament wont use characters that have bad air mobility against Link that often. But town and city is a great stage for Link. The only downside is that it gives lot of space for characters to run away from Link. Links worst neutral in my opinion is smashville and lylat and he best would have to be battlefield. But even though those are Link's worst neutrals, they aren't necessarily bad stages for him either.

Its more difficult for Link to use Zair and projectile combos on lylat as opposed to other stages. Also the tilting of the stage can obstruct Link's Zair recovery. The best way to beat Link is to punish him with grabs. Because of Links weight he's one of the easiest characters to punish out of a grab. And because of the size of smashville, characters like captain faclon can easily punish Link with dash grabs more than he can on any other stage.

Btw I'm well versed match ups like Zero Suit Samus, Captain Falcon, Marth/Lucina, Peach, DDD, little mac, fox, the majority of the cast to say the least except for megaman and bowser jr. If anybody has any question about match ups message me or post here, I'll try my best to help

 

[Zelkam]

You know, I've been thinking about it for a while, and with everybody talking about it I think it's time to bring it up. Do you guys think we should start a stage discussion thread? We had one back on AiB and it ran pretty much like the matchup thread. We'll just take it one stage at a time and discuss Link's pros and cons on it. Thoughts?

 

[Elessar]

You know, I've been thinking about it for a while, and with everybody talking about it I think it's time to bring it up. Do you guys think we should start a stage discussion thread? We had one back on AiB and it ran pretty much like the matchup thread. We'll just take it one stage at a time and discuss Link's pros and cons on it. Thoughts?

Funny that I was thinking the same thing. I was actually thinking about a stage thread and a combo thread. The Metagame could work as a combo thread if we go for it, but I was thinking of a dedicated one.

 

[ConCeal12]

AT thread as well? Many times have people create threads thinking they discovered something but was already found a while back.

 

[Zelkam]

AT thread as well? Many times have people create threads thinking they discovered something but was already found a while back.

An AT thread is currently under construction. For now we have the AT section of blubba's guide and at the end of the index thread. After the new year we should have thread with an up to date AT list.

 

[Sabaca]

@ DACIT
I do a "simple" DACUS input. When i immdietly press constrollstick up+grab after inputting dash toss he always tosses up. If i delay the up toss input a little he tosses forward with up toss animation. Consistently. You cancel the dash toss with an up toss. If Link still got the item in his hands when doing so , he will toss upwards. If he already tossed the item he will only do the up toss animation without tossing because he isn't holding the item anymroe.( i also tested this in slow motion so i can be sure about the timing) Also you slide further the earlier you cancel the dash toss. ( except for the first few frame where you won't slide at all. But to me it is impossible to hit them without slowmotion anyway) Also you obviously got 1 frame less lag for every frame you cancel it earlier.

 

[BrimeZ]

@ DACIT
I do a "simple" DACUS input. When i immdietly press constrollstick up+grab after inputting dash toss he always tosses up. If i delay the up toss input a little he tosses forward with up toss animation. Consistently. You cancel the dash toss with an up toss. If Link still got the item in his hands when doing so , he will toss upwards. If he already tossed the item he will only do the up toss animation without tossing because he isn't holding the item anymroe.( i also tested this in slow motion so i can be sure about the timing) Also you slide further the earlier you cancel the dash toss. ( except for the first few frame where you won't slide at all. But to me it is impossible to hit them without slowmotion anyway) Also you obviously got 1 frame less lag for every frame you cancel it earlier.

Hey Sabaca, you're a very technical Link. Do you know what causes Link to do aerials, tilts and smashes while holding a bomb? it happens to me often, usually in the worst situations in tournament lol

 

[Genix]

As a rule of thumb, what stages would have the most priority when banning? Lylat cruise seems to be the go to ban in most Match-ups.

Its more difficult for Link to use Zair and projectile combos on lylat as opposed to other stages. Also the tilting of the stage can obstruct Link's Zair recovery. The best way to beat Link is to punish him with grabs. Because of Links weight he's one of the easiest characters to punish out of a grab. And because of the size of smashville, characters like captain faclon can easily punish Link with dash grabs more than he can on any other stage.

So, if Smashville is a bad neutral for Link because of grab punishes, wouldn't the same logic apply to final destination? There are no platforms that you can use to avoid grabs. I'd usually take characters that rely on grab punishes (ness, falcon or diddy for instance) rather to sv than fd. I'm not sure whether this is the right decision or not though, so i'm asking for confirmation.

 

[Zelkam]

So we tried the angled bomb throw on the Wii U version today and we couldn't get it to work. So it seems that it's limited to the 3ds for now. Unless sakurai decides to patch it out...

 

[Elessar]

Sakurai has already said that he won't be patching mechanics anymore, only online stuff. It is Sakurai though, so you never know.

 

[Rizen]

So, if Smashville is a bad neutral for Link because of grab punishes, wouldn't the same logic apply to final destination? There are no platforms that you can use to avoid grabs. I'd usually take characters that rely on grab punishes (ness, falcon or diddy for instance) rather to sv than fd. I'm not sure whether this is the right decision or not though, so i'm asking for confirmation.

Link has much better mobility than he did in Brawl so for many MUs larger stages benefit him. Link's good at playing keep away and throwing projectiles out while moving. I think FD isn't great but is better than SV due to the size.

It depends on how good the opponent is on each stage. I imagine characters like Falco shouldn't be taken to FD.

 

[BrimeZ]

As a rule of thumb, what stages would have the most priority when banning? Lylat cruise seems to be the go to ban in most Match-ups.


So, if Smashville is a bad neutral for Link because of grab punishes, wouldn't the same logic apply to final destination? There are no platforms that you can use to avoid grabs. I'd usually take characters that rely on grab punishes (ness, falcon or diddy for instance) rather to sv than fd. I'm not sure whether this is the right decision or not though, so i'm asking for confirmation.

Even though I really hate when people play this way, link can a lot of characters out on fd. He can do things like throw multiple bombs upward in the air, camp with arrows, approach with zair , run away, do bomb drops, run away, throw boomerangs, spam more Zair etc...

Ness back throw can kill easier on sv, and falcon dash grabs can virtually carry link across the stages. Ironically I don't play against diddy that much even though he's common in tournaments. But I know enough that his dash grab is almost as long as falcon and diddys grab punishes are among the best in the game

That doesn't mean that sv or lc are bad stages for link. On lylat links up tilts,up smashes up airs, and up throws are monstrous. I never ban lylat in tournament bc it makes most players uncomfortable.

The biggestdownside of lylat is that Its the easiest stage to punish link when he's recovering. Especially when you play someone who knows a lot about the link match up. Plus characters like falcon have a similarsl advantage. Link had the hardest time landing zairs even on browser players lol

 

[Genix]

Link has much better mobility than he did in Brawl so for many MUs larger stages benefit him. Link's good at playing keep away and throwing projectiles out while moving. I think FD isn't great but is better than SV due to the size.

It depends on how good the opponent is on each stage. I imagine characters like Falco shouldn't be taken to FD.

I agree, in certain matchups fd is pretty decent for link, due to it's size and the fact that opponents can't use platforms to avoid projectiles. However, characters who are good at controlling space horizontally (Villager and his lloid rocket/slingshot for example) or characters whose punish game heavily revolve around grabs (Ness, Falcon, Diddy) benefit from fd more than link does, imo.

Even though I really hate when people play this way, link can a lot of characters out on fd. He can do things like throw multiple bombs upward in the air, camp with arrows, approach with zair , run away, do bomb drops, run away, throw boomerangs, spam more Zair etc...

Ness back throw can kill easier on sv, and falcon dash grabs can virtually carry link across the stages. Ironically I don't play against diddy that much even though he's common in tournaments. But I know enough that his dash grab is almost as long as falcon and diddys grab punishes are among the best in the game

That doesn't mean that sv or lc are bad stages for link. On lylat links up tilts,up smashes up airs, and up throws are monstrous. I never ban lylat in tournament bc it makes most players uncomfortable.

The biggestdownside of lylat is that Its the easiest stage to punish link when he's recovering. Especially when you play someone who knows a lot about the link match up. Plus characters like falcon have a similarsl advantage. Link had the hardest time landing zairs even on browser players lol

I'm not saying fd is a bad stage for link, but i always thought it's best to avoid that stage against grab heavy characters, since platforms really help with avoiding grab punishes. But yes, fd is excellent if you want to play a very camp heavy game. The point about dash grabs on sv makes a lot of sense, but wouldn't that issue be even worse on bf, since it's even smaller? It's true that most players are uncomfortable with going to lylat, now that i think about it. I guess lylat might be matchup dependent, against characters with good offstage game i'd probably ban it (Sheik, greninja), just to be safe.
Sorry for asking so many questions, but i've never really looked into counterpicking in the past and i'm not quite sure whether my impressions on counter picks are valid or not.

 

[BrimeZ]

In tournament, you want to ban mainly according to your opponent and their playstye rather than character. Link is pretty strong on FD, to the point where he forces literally every other characters to fight defensively. Aslong as you're opponent plays aggressively on fd, you should have almost no problems winning with link. Characters have a much harder time grabbing link on fd because of the platforms. On sv its inconsistent

Battlefield is amazing with Link. There's just so much Link can do on bf with all those platforms. Also platforms help Link get out of stupid auto combos from character like mario and sheik. I played Pink fresh and OCO Wave in tournament last tuesdays. Unfortunately it wasn't on stream and I lost 1-2. Unfortuantely i sd'd against fresh, and got cheesed out on fd game three by Wave. But the things i was doing on battlefield was crazy, i didn't think some of the stuff i did was possible. I would have changed the way people viewed link if i had it on tape. I even made a comeback from 128% on my last stock with OCO wave having both stocks and like 60% going full tilt aggressive.

Link just has so much coverage and stage control on battlefield with alot of his moves and more mix ups on bf compared to most of the cast. Link can beat sheik and greninja on lylat. its just tough and much easier to gimp link on that stage. At this point i can comfortable say Link doesn't have any bad stages overall. But breaking down the matchups for link for everystage, it would take so long, you'll end up writing multiple books, with battlefield taking up half a book lol.

 

[Elessar]

Ok so, I can take all these posts about stages and create a thread solely for stage discussions. Would that be ok? I also need a volunteer to own that thread and run it, keep it updated and such. I think that's a better idea than have both meta and stage discussions on the same thread.

Thoughts?

 

[Genix]

Ok so, I can take all these posts about stages and create a thread solely for stage discussions. Would that be ok? I also need a volunteer to own that thread and run it, keep it updated and such. I think that's a better idea than have both meta and stage discussions on the same thread.

Thoughts?

Agreed. I'd volunteer if anyone would explain to me excactly how a thread like this should be run, since i've never done that before. I assume you just have to open a discussion for a particular stage and then compile all the points made in the opening post. So let's say the first week we would discuss battlefield, compile the posts afterwards and then discuss another stage for a week.

 

[BrimeZ]

Ok so, I can take all these posts about stages and create a thread solely for stage discussions. Would that be ok? I also need a volunteer to own that thread and run it, keep it updated and such. I think that's a better idea than have both meta and stage discussions on the same thread.

Thoughts?

I honestly say they should be kept in the same thread. In melee, it was a lot simpler because they were less stages and you only had to worry about playing against different characters at most in a tournament lol. And links approach verses a specific character doesn't usually change via the stage. If you fight against a marth, tech chase chain grab, keep them in the air, reverse wavedash nair of stage are you best options on every stage even battlefield and yoshi story.

However in Smash 4 there are more legal stages and much more characters and so much to figure out about the meta game. And match ups literally can change dependent on the stage. Take little Mac on Delfino plaza for example lol. Counter picks make a much bigger difference in this game than other games. Where knowing what combos can do what, which moves can kill depending on where you are on the stage. Take links up throw on the top platform on battlfield for example. It can kill around 100% depending on the character, where he can't do that against any character with the up throw at 100% on fd even with rage to my knowledge

I would also volunteer for running the stage thread but I usualy go a week or two without posting on smashboards. I've only been able to get on so frequently this past week on two because of the holidays.

 

[Sabaca]

Hey Sabaca, you're a very technical Link. Do you know what causes Link to do aerials, tilts and smashes while holding a bomb? it happens to me often, usually in the worst situations in tournament lol

IDK wether it is what happens to you. But when you are ducking while holding a bomb you can do an ftilt with your c-stick. And if you are pressing A while holding a bomb and have c-stick on SMASH you will do an fsmash while holding a bomb. Otherwise i have no idea.

NOTE ON MY POST TO DACIT:
Forgot to mention that the afaik easiest method of doing it consistently depends on your cstick settings
SMASH: dash-> GRAB(not attack) -> c-stick up
ATTACK: dash->c-stick-> controllstick up + grab/attack

I think doing the slightly different Timing is easier/better than pressing up+forward->forward instead of up ( at least with pro controller?) because as it is said in the OP it is incosistent and you will do a lot of fakout uptoss or even uptoss anyway. This happens because being slightly off with position/timing of controllstick will result in those false inputs. While you got more room with the simple Input.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Man... I need to stay on top of things. Gonna go through the pages and fix up the OP. If you guys think there were some pretty important posts in the past week or so, feel free to sum it all up (Less work for me )

Edit: Alright, great discussions guys! Looks like Link has a ton of stuff in his arsenal this time around.
Perfect Pvioting has been a hot topic around Sm4sh. Link's traction is pretty bad (as expected) for PP'ing, but Jab and Utilt seem to be good options out of it. What do you guys think? DISCUSS.