Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yeah F-tilting while holding items is known but it's still a fairly new discovery, so it's still a credit to you that you found it by yourself.

The quickest and easiest way I've found to do it is to simply hit down on the joystick then immediately hit forwards on the c-stick. (doing this method while standing on a platform causes difficulties though.)

 

[Drigo Toes]

I mean, i discovered that the very first day Smash Wii U hit the market (I even posted a tutorial in the Facebook of SmashBrosChile), but i was waiting to have a way to record it...

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

All the more credit to you then. I had to wait till smash was released in australia to try it myself and find my own method of doing it (see the above edit). You don't need to be visibly crouching and so it can be done immediately out of a standing position. You also don't need to change your c-stick to an a-stick.

 

[Elessar]

I mean, i discovered that the very first day Smash Wii U hit the market (I even posted a tutorial in the Facebook of SmashBrosChile), but i was waiting to have a way to record it...

That's why your name seemed really familiar. You're one of the best Link from Chile right? At least quite famous. I remember seeing videos of you during Brawl days. I hope you're planning on becoming a regular, hace falta más latinos por estos lados, especialmente en los foros de Link.

 

[Drigo Toes]

I was the best Chilean Link in Brawl... actually, Zero affirms in a tutorial video that LinkEa (my pupil) is the Best Chilean Link in 3ds, I'm kind of retired...Sadly enough, I work 10 hours a day and i'm going to marry in January, therefore i will have less time to play this version of Smash...

 

[Elessar]

I know what that feels like, too bad about not playing more, but gratz on getting married. I'd love to play you or your pupil when I go back home anyways of possible.

 

[FEaR.7]

I'm married and have a full time job, that's why I also retired from smash like 5 years ago. Want to play this smash so much that I'm finding ways to make time for it. I'm taking the 3ds to work and playing at lunch time with a couple friends. So actually 3ds version is getting more love than the WiiU atm.

Otro latino por acá

 

[FSK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpax41DC_Y

does this actually work with Link's dtilt?

 

[BryE]

I think you guys were talking about this stuff in previous threads, (the Zair stuff was talked about in here) but I decided to make a short video about it showing Z-dropped bomb stuff that Link can pull off. However I'm mainly showing off his Z-Drop Bomb Bair walls and Zair Bomb Aerials.

iirc, @ Fox Is Openly Deceptive talked about dropping bombs out of an aerial which can be used to chain multiple aerials (specifically Bairs) while holding a bomb.

 

[Rizen]

@ BryE good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpax41DC_Y

does this actually work with Link's dtilt?

It probably would but the timing is stupid hard considering Dtilt starts frame 13 and lasts 2 frames. I think Link's Nair and Dair have huge potential exploiting the frame 1 vulnerability when grabbing a ledge. Link's tether recovery not having a hurt box on the claw is a good way to avoid the ledge attacks.

 

[Elessar]

Otro latino por acá

Recién ahora me fijo que eres de América Central, que bueno.

I'm also married, have a son, a full time job and 3 part time jobs. I still have time to play...what am I doing wrong?

So, I stumbled on this video on the home page. Perfect pivot a which works a bit like Wavedash. We need to test this out to see how useful it is, specially since Link's slide seems to be a bit short.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

My initial thoughts on the ledge-snap vulnerability: It's probably only significant for recoveries that have invincibility, so there will always be a frame of vulnerability when they go to snap to the ledge. For everyone else, one way of looking at it is that you can be like a couple of pixels closer to the edge and still hit them. (big deal?) Of course I haven't actually looked into it yet or watched the whole video XD, so, grain of salt.

 

[Rizen]

My initial thoughts on the ledge-snap vulnerability: It's probably only significant for recoveries that have invincibility, so there will always be a frame of vulnerability when they go to snap to the ledge. For everyone else, one way of looking at it is that you can be like a couple of pixels closer to the edge and still hit them. (big deal?) Of course I haven't actually looked into it yet or watched the whole video XD, so, grain of salt.

I think it might be bigger than that. Ledge snaps have decent distance so a way to exploit Dair (or Nair) without moving far from the stage would be a very useful tactic for Link. You saw the video at 0:16
EZLink https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpax41DC_Y

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Well yeah, it's pretty much as I said, significant when trying to hit recoveries that are (otherwise) invulnerable. I'm just not that sure how much of a difference it would make if there was no one frame of vulnerability at the beginning of a ledge snap if you tried to hit someone who is vulnerable the entire time. That's all I'm saying. I'm withholding any further judgement until I've tried it out in some real matches.

 

[Rizen]

Well yeah, it's pretty much as I said, significant when trying to hit recoveries that are (otherwise) invulnerable. I'm just not that sure how much of a difference it would make if there was no one frame of vulnerability at the beginning of a ledge snap if you tried to hit someone who is vulnerable the entire time. That's all I'm saying. I'm withholding any further judgement until I've tried it out in some real matches.

Ledge grabs do grant invulnerability to anyone the first grab. I think the snaps do too. In Brawl, Link's Dair had 51 strait frames of attack but ledge snaps passed through it so Link had to be a good distance from the ledge or work around the invulnerability (with a read) to land one off stage. I think in SSB4 many recoveries take advantage of the ledge snap and having a constant attack to exploit the frame 1 vulnerability could be extremely useful.
Pretty much any recovery rising to the ledge should get Daired.

 

[FSK]

soooo something I've started doing:

I never do second hit of fsmash and I try to space it for a tipper. If it doesn't tip I don't mind, usually the opponent will expect the second hit and shield or roll so I don't get punished anyway. However after a while the opponent will notice that I never do second hit and I will try to start punishing me, I'll let the person punish me a few times to build up the habit for them. Then boom I'll release the second hit to take the stock.

Seems to work pretty well.

 

[Rizen]

^I think the 2nd hit connects pretty well anyway, without the need for conditioning.

 

[FSK]

^I think the 2nd hit connects pretty well anyway, without the need for conditioning.

Well, I wait enough to release the second hit that its not a combo anymore so the opponent can get out by double jumping, shielding or rolling.

I don't have the reaction necessary to confirm hit on the first fsmash and release the second for it to still be a combo.

 

[ConCeal12]

^ I was just about to mention that the Fsmash is quite hit confirmable. It has a good window of time to still true combo you may need to practice hit confirming as to not rely on conditioning. It's not street fighter tight thankfully.

EDIT: Also has anyone mentioned about how amazing running bomb throw is? It's completely lagless after the toss. You can follow up immediately for true combos from 0% all the way up to 100%+.

I use these after running bomb so far:
0-40% : Utilt strings; Fsmash; Grab
50-90% : Usmash; Fair (both hits usually land around 50 depending on weight)
90%+ : Fair, Uair (For kill usually)

 

[Rizen]

I have a lot of trouble landing KOs with Link since I lost Brawl's tools like landing cancel chains and locks. Jab cancel isn't great as opponents seem to escape sometimes. Dsmash got nerfed and starts frame 9 (rather than 7). I feel like the only buff he got to hit with KO moves, even though they're stronger and rage helps, is grab is less punishable and Uthrow KOs earlier.
So how should Link land KOs now?

 

[Elessar]

I haven't had an issue with KOs yet. I usually go. For a gimp or a tipped fsmash. Tipped fsmash at the edge kills at roughly 50% already, and the second fsmash hit kills at 80. Try to land more ftilts, útiles uair fsmash and hips and you should be fine. Just try to keep them fresh until you get to kill %. A good way of doing this for fsmash is to. Always use only que hit fsmash, and keep the second hit fresh for an early kill at 80.

 

[Rizen]

Try to land more ftilts, útiles uair fsmash and hips and you should be fine.

Hips? That's more of a Peach/Wario Bthrow thing
Seriously though, I'm having a lot of trouble landing Fsmash on lv9 CPUs and humans can be much smarter than CPUs.

For metagame advancement I think using bombs frequently and in close proximity to the opponent will be key. We Brawl Link veterans need to learn not to avoid our own bomb explosions and embrace the bombs. Be one with the explosions. We must transcend to a state of bomb nirvana or bombvana. OoS bombs, air bombs, bombs thrown down on the opponent, etc no longer launch Link if the explosion touches which means Link can safely be much closer than before. The explosions not hurting Link make incredible chain starters. The stronger casings mean if the opponent shields the bomb it will land softly on the ground, rather than exploding like in Brawl, and be excellent for stopping the opponent from rolling behind Link. The shorter fuses mean if the opponent catches a bomb they're forced to get rid of it fast.
Using bombs in the air, ground and anywhere is Link's Ace up his sleeve that opens chains and is extremely hard to deal with for the opponent.
No Bair/Dair momentum canceling (if I'm not mistaken?) means we should pull a bomb reflexively as soon as Link's launched.

Link's buffed air movement, higher jumps and upB and longer tether make Link a much better intercepting/gimping character. I think Link's KOs will largely come from hitting the opponent away with a non KO move (like bombs) and chasing them as they return to the stage (like @ Elessar said). From the side, Fair/Bair walls really well and boomerang/arrows frame trap. From below bombs thrown up pressure, Uair outlasts air dodges and beats most (if not all, needs testing) Dairs. Link's Dair walls really well too if the opponent recovers low. In Brawl Link had a short distance spacing style that used his low jumps/hops and landing canceling; in SSB4 Link needs to expand this area significantly and move farther. More reach on Zair helps too.

Utilt seems to be the only safe ground KO move without a frame trap or good read/punish. But Ftilt works very well with projectile traps.

Other changes we brawl vets need to embrace are:
Dair is actually pretty safe if you're not an idiot with it. It ends sooner, has less lag and most importantly, Link's better air mobility aids the long lasting, high priority hit bubbles very well.
Link can roll much more safely now. We need to use this. In Brawl rolling was highly punishable but not any more. Link can't be reckless obviously but he has a decent escape with rolls now.
Grab is much safer now but shorter. It's less of a punish grab and closer to a normal grab. Rage+Uthrow is a decent KO option around 140%-170%+ now.
Dsmash is slower now and isn't as good for roll punishes and jab cancels as it was.

This thread needs more activity; do work! Discuss!

 

[Elessar]

Something that I've been trying to do but still fail because lol is throw a bomb and immediately chase it with a shfair. This way, if the opponent Shields you can rematch it and throw it again. If it lands, the explosion won't stop the incoming shfair to the face. I've done it a couple of times but never willingly sadly.

 

[Genix]

I get most of my kills with Jab1 > USmash / Jab1 + Jab2 > DSmash, although this set-up does not work on every character.

By the way, a neat way to throw bombs without making them explode when hitting the ground has been discovered. I don't know whether this is common knowledge or not, but i haven't seen any Link taking advantage of this.
I can't post links, so just search for ''ssb4 - link's soft throw'' on youtube for video reference.

Basically, you just have to map the c-stick to ''attack'' instead of ''smash'' and then do a quick pivot by flicking the control stick in one direction and the c stick in the opposite direction.
This has insane potential for traps, stage control and some fun tricksies.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

By the way, a neat way to throw bombs without making them explode when hitting the ground has been discovered. I don't know whether this is common knowledge or not, but i haven't seen any Link taking advantage of this.
I can't post links, so just search for ''ssb4 - link's soft throw'' on youtube for video reference.

Basically, you just have to map the c-stick to ''attack'' instead of ''smash'' and then do a quick pivot by flicking the control stick in one direction and and the c stick in the opposite direction.
This has insane potential for traps, stage control and some fun tricksies.

Here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqLCgbazuGs
I like it. You can do it with just the joystick and the attack button as well, but having an A-stick makes it super easy.
It can be done out of an initial dash or a walk.
If you're using just the joystick and the attack button and you're doing the initial dash variation, it's similar to doing a Perfect Pivot only you have to do a very light flick of the joystick that only barely goes back in the other direction. It's very possible for those that don't want to change their c-stick; it just takes a little practise. [Obviously the walking variation is easier for the joystick and attack button method. The same quick soft flick of the joystick is required, but you can take your time.]

 

[Rizen]

This is interesting. According to some guy who joined in 11/2014, Link is about mid tier in recovering.
http://smashboards.com/threads/recovery-rankings.381244/

 

[ShinTwist ScreamPaste]

Tech is known, but we don't have it written down anywhere yet so you're off the hook. Glad to see people coming across these individually, mad to see so many threads about them.

After the holidays I'll be consolidating all of this stuff into a single AT thread.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Tech is known, but we don't have it written down anywhere yet so you're off the hook. Glad to see people coming across these individually, mad to see so many threads about them.

After the holidays I'll be consolidating all of this stuff into a single AT thread.

Probably for the best. Let people have a large index to find them.

 

[Opana]

Can't record atm but I believe this works on big characters.

Basically would like this tested better than I can.

 

[ShinTwist ScreamPaste]

This goes in the Metagame thread. Don't slip up twice.
I doubt this is a true combo, though it would be hilarious for Link of all characters to have a chain grab.

 

[Opana]

My apologies, I noticed threads discussing similar things and assumed it'd be alright.

I don't really know how to address this, can I lock this and post it there?

 

[ShinTwist ScreamPaste]

Just go post in the metagame thread, it's stickied.

And we have an influx of redundant threads right now, normally they'd be getting flamed and Devalocked, but until after the holidays we don't have a thread that covers them so I have to be 'nice'. Once there's no excuses for this kind of thing, though, these redundant threads are going down.

 

[Elessar]

As Shin said, we are being more forgiving now since it is the season to be merry and all that crap. Also, because we are still struggling to make the boards for new user friendly, which usually means scrub proof.

Check the stickies first, and if you can post a video of this. I'll test it but I don't think it'll work that we'll due to the grab cool down characters have now but it's still worth testing.

 

[Opana]

Well I appreciate the lighter approach I guess. Just trying to contribute, I mean I contribute a good deal and a lot of it is hit or miss lol, assuming this is a miss.

 

[Elessar]

Well I appreciate the lighter approach I guess. Just trying to contribute, I mean I contribute a good deal and a lot of it is hit or miss lol, assuming this is a miss.

Contributing is good and we encourage it. Just that in the right thread. Since right now the boards are somewhat chaotic though, that right place can be somewhat relative, hence the lighter approach as you put it. Do feel welcome to continue working and contributing though, we appreciate any worthwhile input.

 

[Opana]

Contributing is good and we encourage it. Just that in the right thread. Since right now the boards are somewhat chaotic though, that right place can be somewhat relative, hence the lighter approach as you put it. Do feel welcome to continue working and contributing though, we appreciate any worthwhile input.

Yup will do. I try and choose an idea that can be attempted with multiple characters, atm trying to find CGs. I'll let this die now and post anything further in the correct sticky.

 

[ConCeal12]

^ the community has critiqued that thread and OP takes things into consideration well. I'd say that list is valid but not done possibly.

On topic for KOs; when my opponent is doing a good job staying alive he usually dies to my Utilt when he gets too close. It usually kills at about 140% though. Its a good punish on whiff or blocked dash atks, grabs or smash atks they attempt.

Thanks for the post regardless OP! I wasn't even aware of this. But yes a consolidated AT thread will be much appreciated. In fact all Character Specific Forums should have such a thing

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I've gone and merged a couple of threads so some of the above posts won't really make sense any more, e.g. 'post this in the metagame thread scrub' (paraphrasing of course). So have fun with that.

 

[Elessar]

@ Opana since Fox merged the thread the input for your chain grab has been list (since you put it in the title rather than the post). Mind repeating what the input was again?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Oh, yeah it was D-throw to turn around Jab x2 to re-grab. I know this because I briefly looked at it before. He's right in that it would only really work on heavy fellas such as Bowser. Thing is, the cpu (set to 'run') was able to airdodge just before they hit the ground out of a D-throw at 0%, so the first hit of Jab would miss. I didn't look into it far enough yet and hadn't planned on posting till I had, so I can't yet tell you if you can connect a grab out of the lag from the airdodge or if the second jab combos into a grab or if they can double jump instead of airdodge and therefore possibly avoid any follow-ups.
What I can tell you however is that at 0%, the re-grab is very possible and I can see why he thought it might be a thing. I can also tell you that you'll hate the new buffering system because you can't buffer the turn around plus the Jab, only the turn around, meaning you'll have to be very particular about timing your Jab. Too late and you'll Jab too late, too early and the Jab input will override the turn around input and the one action you'll buffer will be the Jab facing the wrong way.