Link: Full Guide & Discussion Topic

[Sangoku]

Most shield breaks are like frame perfect. The easiest one is the Zenyore pseudo shieldbreak: fair, ftilt, upb. It does 54/55, so it won't break if it's full.

 

[prisonchild]

lesson of the day: get as quick as you can!

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Most shield breaks are like frame perfect. The easiest one is the Zenyore pseudo shieldbreak: fair, ftilt, upb. It does 54/55, so it won't break if it's full.

I once did this in a match, it broke from the first hit of the up b and the 2nd hit/weak hit sent him nowhere. never again

 

[Cobrevolution]

would the second hit of the upb land if you performed this on a platform? fair through plat -> ftilt -> platdrop upb i mean

 

[Sangoku]

It's weird it landed, I woud have thought that the invincibility during the flying animation would be long enough.

 

[Barbs Jr]

would the second hit of the upb land if you performed this on a platform? fair through plat -> ftilt -> platdrop upb i mean

Yes, if you're quick enough to get the ftilt to up B to link. But this does solve the problem of the second hit of Up-b ruining it.

 

[clubbadubba]

It's weird it landed, I woud have thought that the invincibility during the flying animation would be long enough.

My thoughts exactly...

 

[Kimimaru]

Does anyone else use D-tilt for edgeguarding if you know they're going to DI into the stage? At higher percents it knocks them up just high enough for you to hit them with a F-air.

 

[asianaussie]

you can usually get one of d-air, f-air or up-b from it regardless, and if you miss you can sometimes recover in time to respond to whatever they do next

 

[The Star King]

How do Links shield break? That Fair - Fair - Dair thing is way too hard.

If you get two Fairs on shield you can just FSmash.

I have gotten shieldbreaks before with instant double jump platform pressure. IDJ bair -> platform drop up-air -> up-b does 52%, IDJ bair -> platform drop up-air -> IDJ bair does 56%. Dunno if those true combo though, and they're technically demanding. I remember Isai did a shieldbreak on a platform that ended with platform drop uair -> up-b on a Hyrule platform in some Youtube video (Apex 2013) I think, don't remember where though.

Does anyone else use D-tilt for edgeguarding if you know they're going to DI into the stage? At higher percents it knocks them up just high enough for you to hit them with a F-air.

I used to edgeguard Mario and Luigi's recovery with all FSmashes, which is nearly 100% reliable, but I think I'm gonna switch to Dtilts at medium -> medium-highish percents. The reasons being that the one way they can survive the FSmashes barring Link error is reverse ledge DI. And if you do dtilt -> aerial edgeguard instead then reverse ledge DI is pretty irrelevant, you can still do combo into the aerial at the right %s. Not only that, but it feels easier to time and it kills them faster than FSmashes with wall DI. I think I'll still FSmash at percents too low or high for the dtilt to combo into an aerial, though.

 

[BRLNK88]

Japanese Link shield breaks are MUCH easier with his utilt.

 

[rpgfighter]

Curious to see what Link players think...

So Hyrules banned at Apex, how do you think this will effect Link and his viability if this rule change carries over to every tournament?

 

[mixa]

well, I'm no expert... but with this change link went from not viable to not viable
but who knows

 

[rpgfighter]

I've been following 64 a bit but I don't know man I feel like Link on Hyrule can do something, now I just don't know.

Also is Isai the only Link that placed?

 

[The Star King]

It depends on what you define as viable. He can be useful for some MUs (Kirby on Hyrule)

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

I like link. I don't like much about link. I like it when you jab someone and then get them with a frametrap down smash. And I like bombs. Here is some info/gimmicks that you may already know but I didn't particularly see in this thread regarding bombs.

Weak throw bomb at the perfect amount of space from a ledge causes the bomb to land on stage then skip a little and go off stage. Hitting an opponent off edge with a bomb like this doesn't explode and leads to a spinout state.

Also if a bomb thrown weak upwards in air collides with a bomb thrown grounded heavy upwards both bombs will land on stage and rest there (one on each side of you). Only really useful when you've killed an opponent and want to lay some hazards on a certain part of the stage. This is the only way I know of to get two bombs thrown upwards to both come to rest on the stage.

I understand the lack of love for campy bomb heavy links but I think bomb mindgames are some of the most fun you can have in this game.

Other bomb stuff. Link holding a bomb in shield can throw the bomb the opposite way he is facing by F-smashing opposite direction. A surprisingly effective gimmick when you consider that a link in shield facing the opposite way is just begging to get grabbed.

At appropriate spacing a weak thrown bomb (from ground) at a shielded opponent leads to enough blockstun to get a free grab in. If forward throwing an opponent you can pause and get the extra damage from the bomb tacked on to your throw without having the bomb interfere with the throw knockback.

There are windows where you can throw a bomb from the air horizontally towards a bomb at rest that actually cause the bomb you have thrown to come back towards you. I know the bomb at rest has to be pulsating but I don't actually know the other conditions that have to be met to do this consistently.

Bombs bombs bombs bombs bombs.

 

[asianaussie]

there are links that aren't campy bomb heavy links?

...oh wait hyrule banned

IT WAS NICE WHILE IT LASTED, this thread is now defunct

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

An advanced link edge guard is to run off and bair, but the frame window for the double jump -> up b back onto stage is very small.
To make it easier to perform, use the jouske jump technique: instead of just pressing a jump button, slide your thumb across all of 4 them, so that the jumping input is spread across up to 4 frames (even more with stick jump included)

 

[BananaBolts]

An advanced link edge guard is to run off and bair, but the frame window for the double jump -> up b back onto stage is very small.
To make it easier to perform, use the jouske jump technique: instead of just pressing a jump button, slide your thumb across all of 4 them, so that the jumping input is spread across up to 4 frames (even more with stick jump included)

An interesting edgegaurd that I discovered is this:
Stand at the edge of a stage with you're back turned towards it. Throw a bomb downwards so that it explodes and sends you backwards off of the ledge. Link's trajectory sets up well for an up-b and the hitstun from the bomb doesn't last for very long. I didn't test any of his aerials but Link retains his second jump so it isn't too far fetched as an edgegaurding technique. Yes, it looks silly and causes damage but the mindgames are so worth it. Give it a try.

 

[asianaussie]

im sure you can replicate that trajectory with his normal jump in some way

 

[Sangoku]

My first thoughts after reading that post were "or alternatively you can jump offstage". More evidence toward the aa=sangoku theory.

 

[asianaussie]

if you are at 96-99% and decide you want to use the slow getup attack to do an exteded edgehog to cover for maybe fox at an incredibly specific angle

then you are probably isai

 

[BananaBolts]

I really only use that edgeguard once in about 5-10 games. The mind games are worth it for me.

 

[mixa]

link's slow get-up atk is hax against ppl who don't know about blue frames

 

[BananaBolts]

I've been playing a lot of link lately and I feel like he has the most interesting combos/setups. Shenanigans, I tell you.

Please, tell me some of the crazy combos that you have achieved recently.

 

[Kimimaru]

I have a question about Link's D-air that I've always wanted to know the answer for. Unlike every other move in the game, this one can hit more than once despite being a single hitbox. Does the hitbox get refreshed every X frames after hitting (as long as there are X frames left in the animation, that is)? What allows this hitbox to do this?

 

[mixa]

Does the hitbox get refreshed every X frames after hitting (as long as there are X frames left in the animation, that is)?

Yes, precisely. If you turn on hitbox mode and dair, you'll see the hitbox disappearing upon connecting and reappearing after X frames. I don't know the value of X by heart, but it's simple testing.
One thing to test as well is trying to connect 3 hits with one dair.

What allows this hitbox to do this?

Sakurai? I don't know.

 

[firo]

I've been playing a lot of link lately.

One thing I didn't realize about him until very recently, is that in addition to his normal out of shield options, link can also throw his bomb out of shield (and throw it powerfully in any direction). Sometimes if I have a bomb and spam a, I can get out of shield pressure pretty quickly.

Does anyone know how this option compares to link's other options? How fast does link throw his bomb when he's in his shield?

 

[tehz]

I've never thought about throwing a bomb OoS, so I decided to learn how to look into the frames. I'm no mixa or madao, so these might not be totally accurate. I did this in MupenRR and my frame numbering schema looks like this:

Frame 00:    Input Button(s)
Frame 01:    Frame Delay for Input
Frame 02:    Action starts

So, if you want to see how long an animation lasts, just substract 1 frame (the frame delay). Maybe I should just do that, as that just measures the animation.... but, this matches the frames in my gifs.

Having said that, it looks like your intuition was right, firo. Throwing bombs is the quickest hitbox you can get OoS. In true Link fashion, the quickest throw is, of course, the "down throw" where Link blows himself up. As far as I can tell, strong or weak throws don't matter. Here is the first hitbox for some common OoS options:

Grab:     Frame 18
Up-B:     Frame 10
Up-Smash: Frame 13
Nair OoS: Frame 13
Dair OoS: Frame 14

Forward/Back Bomb OoS: Frame 9
Up Bomb OoS:           Frame 10
Down Bomb OoS:         Frame 7    [LOLOLOL]

So, by 2 frames, blowing yourself up is the fastest thing Link can do OoS. Did I miss any other OoS actions? (None of these are shield-platform-drops, but even a shield-drop Nair comes out on frame 8, I think)

I kinda want to update this post with a lot of gifs and frame timings for Link's moves OoS, but that'll take awhile. For now, here are 3 gifs of OoS actions:

Grab OoS:

Up-B OoS:

Down Bomb Throw OoS:

 

[asianaussie]

down throw bomb could be really solid oos depending on how prepared your opp is

it could backfire horribly but hey you're playing link anyway

 

[firo]

Great info tehz, thanks for figuring it out. I'm looking forward to seeing the other gifs. In the up-b image it seems like you are invincible for a frame, due to the jump. Are you taking that into account? Also, does turning around and throwing add any extra frames? And what about a platform-dropped downward bomb throw (so it still lands on the platform)?

Also, another thing to consider is what happens when you get hit mid-bomb throw OOS. I think the bomb still has a hitbox after that (or it explodes), but I don't know the specifics.

One of link's issues I think is his trouble overcoming shield pressure, but holding a bomb helps. I find it's definitely worth it to pull and hold a bomb after your opponent dies to get out of pressure rather than throwing it or setting up traps.

 

[asianaussie]

what's the frame data on upwards light throw OOS? same as strong throw?

 

[BananaBolts]

One of link's issues I think is his trouble overcoming shield pressure, but holding a bomb helps. I find it's definitely worth it to pull and hold a bomb after your opponent dies to get out of pressure rather than throwing it or setting up traps.

This. My friend is a Link main and he'll often pull a bomb out and just hold it. It's not the most reliable because he has to rely on RNG to get himself to drop the bomb while I'm in mid-combo. It's definitely a deterrent that should be utilized more often. He occasionally holds it long enough that it's primed to explode and he'll sit in shield if I approach, actively deterring shield pressure. It reminds me of Link's bomb mask from LoZ: MM. I suppose it's not the best strategy but it works fairly well in the Link vs Falcon match up. To add to Link's safety-net options, throwing a boomerang right before the opponent respawns on the platform is good, passive pressure. Depending on where it's thrown and how Link affects it's return trajectory, the boomerang can serve as combo aversion. iirc, the boomerang can return to Link's position as the opponent loses invincibility.

Side note: My new favorite combo finisher for Link is nair to falling up-b. I can't contribute any percent data for this but I know for sure it works on the heavy characters at varying percents (not sure how early it can combo... I'm still experimenting). It's difficult to connect at kill percent and the execution is tight but it's definitely one of Link's flashier combos.

Speaking of falling up-b, does anyone have the hitbox gifs for it? I would appreciate any help.

 

[tehz]

I'm looking forward to seeing the other gifs. In the up-b image it seems like you are invincible for a frame, due to the jump. Are you taking that into account?

Yeah, I took that frame into account. As far as I can tell, to do an Up-B or up-smash OoS, you need to jump cancel it. So, that 1 blue invincible frame results from the frame delay of inputting UP in shield on frame n, and then UP + B on frame n+1 (assuming frame perfect inputs). You then have a frame where you are still "jumping OoS" before the UP+B cancels that animation

Also, does turning around and throwing add any extra frames?

Throwing the bomb forward or backward is the same number of frames. This surprised me too! I'll double check when I make the gifs for those throws.

Throwing a bomb up does add an extra frame as compare to forward/backward, though. It's not the same situation as an Up-B OoS, though (ie, there's no 1 extra input delay frame). The up-throw animation is just longer.

And what about a platform-dropped downward bomb throw (so it still lands on the platform)?

I didn't know you could do that. Sounds very interesting, though.

Also, another thing to consider is what happens when you get hit mid-bomb throw OOS. I think the bomb still has a hitbox after that (or it explodes), but I don't know the specifics.

And also very interesting. I didn't think about either of those two situations. I'd imagine that getting hit while throwing OoS is the same as getting hit while throwing regularly, though.

@ asianaussie As far as I could tell, the throw strength didn't matter. I only tested max strength and like a half tilt, though.

@ BananaBolts Is the falling up-b on the frame display website? I'll add it to my gif list anyways, but it won't be the fancy half-hitboxes/half-actual-polygons-and-textures.

 

[firo]

So I was wrong about being able to platform drop and drop your bomb on the same platform - turns out you can't do that.

However, I also discovered some cool (new?) link tech - if you shield during your initial dash holding a bomb, until your dash ends, you can press A and do your dash throw out of shield, sort of like a glide toss. Link's dash animation continues after he stops so you still get the dash throw about a quarter of a second after he is done sliding. This gives you a bit of a boost in range and speed for your bomb throw. It is useful when you are near the ledge as link will dash throw and land right at the end. I'm curious @ tehz if you can look into how fast this is, and whether it is any faster than doing a regular dash throw.

Also - given the ability to do dair, fair, or up-b, assuming none are stale - anyone know which move sends opponents the furthest?

 

[Sedda]

Also - given the ability to do dair, fair, or up-b, assuming none are stale - anyone know which move sends opponents the furthest?

ive always wanted to know this. I pretty much use these interchangeably depending on how high i knock my opponent with an uair/utilt/dtilt since all three have good knockback and can kill easily, but i dont know which one is supposed to be better if i have the choice to use all three at a given time.

 

[asianaussie]

i believe f-air or up-b hit the opponent slightly further than d-air, not entirely sure which of up-b or f-air is stronger because i never have non-stale f-air

this is based entirely on several years of play rather than any testing

 

[tehz]

I'm curious @ tehz if you can look into how fast this is, and whether it is any faster than doing a regular dash throw.

I quickly counted the frames last night, and the dash throw animation is the same number of frames as a standing forwards/backwards throw (for both out of dash/idle and out of shield). So, at least you're not losing any frames!

The shielding dash throw is a cool observation, too!

 

[Tomas Keselik]

u represent hyrule dude

 

[Tomas Keselik]

nice nice nice nice nice