Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

[KenMeister]

I need help understanding Link's Zair. I was watching stuff and it seems you guys like to throw out Zair but for me it is just slow and laggy. I mean I would like an explanation when I need to use Zair, because in my opinion, Zair is only used for recovering and making sure you bombdrop. just asking.

Very interesting to read. But you have to remember that Captain falcon is a character meant to break through walls with his soupier speed and attacks. A thing we need to learn is to quickly switch to a offensive play style rather a defensive. I fought a falcon earlier today and I do agree they all do the same thing, but some players use Falcons strengths better than others obviously. But very interesting.

I use zair to stuff my opponents' aerial approaches, but you might want to use it from a distance of course otherwise you'll get punished on landing. Best used in midrange, methinks. I prefer defensive play against Falcon and generally rely on spaced bairs and jabs to stuff his dash grabs and linear approaches, use bombs when he's in the air, and rang to punish his landings, since he's the one who has to approach and not us. And yes, he is "soup" full of surprises. lol

 

[smokebomb12]

I use zair to stuff my opponents' aerial approaches, but you might want to use it from a distance of course otherwise you'll get punished on landing. Best used in midrange, methinks. I prefer defensive play against Falcon and generally rely on spaced bairs and jabs to stuff his dash grabs and linear approaches, use bombs when he's in the air, and rang to punish his landings, since he's the one who has to approach and not us. And yes, he is "soup" full of surprises. lol

Falcon is my least favorite person to fight. He in my opinion is OP

 

[FSK]

Link's grab is 12 frames. It's waaaaay better than ZSS's grab in neutral and actually fast enough to beat reaction time and force people to guess.

You do know that 12 frames is 200 milliseconds and competitive gamers have reaction times closer to 100 milliseconds. Furthermore 12 frames is only if you are standing right next to your opponent, in reality it's going to be closer to 20 frames which is around max range. Which is 333 milliseconds, loads of time for a player like zero to spotdodge it.

 

[KenMeister]

Falcon is my least favorite person to fight. He in my opinion is OP

Not really. He gets amazing conversions like he does in Melee, but his approach is extremely linear, which is why they rely on a bait-punish playstyle. His approaches usually consist of RAR bair, dash grab, SH nair and dash attack, all of which take commitment and are punished hard if they whiff, as he doesn't have the aerial momentum like in Melee to throw a nair in your face halfway across FD, so his horizontal momentum in the air is lacking. Falcon also, much like Marth, has a lengthy dash animation, meaning he can't immediately shield out of a dash like Sheik or Mario can, which leaves him open a split second before going into shield after dashing. His fall speed and lack of a quick, full-body aerial also means he's extremely vulnerable to juggles and combos, moreso than any other high or top tier probably. Oh, and he has one of the worst recoveries in the game too. lol

 

[Naroghin]

I need help understanding Link's Zair. I was watching stuff and it seems you guys like to throw out Zair but for me it is just slow and laggy. I mean I would like an explanation when I need to use Zair, because in my opinion, Zair is only used for recovering and making sure you bombdrop. just asking...

I used to think the same things about Zair for sm4sh but then I played a competent Link last night and was like "OOHHHHHhhhh. I see now."

 

[smokebomb12]

I used to think the same things about Zair for sm4sh but then I played a competent Link last night and was like "OOHHHHHhhhh. I see now."

What happened?

 

[A2ZOMG]

You do know that 12 frames is 200 milliseconds and competitive gamers have reaction times closer to 100 milliseconds. Furthermore 12 frames is only if you are standing right next to your opponent, in reality it's going to be closer to 20 frames which is around max range. Which is 333 milliseconds, loads of time for a player like zero to spotdodge it.

You have to actually recognize the animation however, and spotdodging in general is way worse than it was from the previous game and not only is slower on the majority of the cast, it also has to be really precise to be effective. Again, reasons why ZSS, Olimar, and even Yoshi for that matter work. Keeping in mind Link's grab is BETTER than theirs. Even top players still have to be really careful around tether grabs when it's not actually that trivial in this game to spotdodge a grab on reaction.

And on the subject of characters that rely on slow grabs, Ray_Kalm playing Ganondorf also placed 4th in a major tournament, above M2K. Having a slow grab is by far much less of a crippling detriment in this game than in other titles.

 

[ShinnyMetal]

What a show guys.


I would just like to say that Link's grab is faster but zss's lingers longer.

Anyway it's pointless to talk about who's grab it better. Who gives a ****. Everything she has is better than link anyway so who cares. A pro ZSS hardly grabs anyway and you can say the same for link. link uses a grab as a punish because reads (unless its a roll) leave him open as hell.

A tether grab is not nearly as good as other grabs for that reason. Period. So can we stop talking about grabs because it's kinda ridiculous. We aren't freaking luigi or diddy so who cares

 

[Elessar]

FG is srsbsn for srsppl to get srsmuxp. Watching vids is as good as playing and my cousin is as good as all top competitive players.

 

[ShinTwist ScreamPaste]

I find it amusing that people think what transpired here was 'heated'. Makes me pine for the old days, this is just how we shake hands.

 

[Rizen]

@ Catana mentioned a cat in chat so here's the cat I drew:

My scanner doesn't pick up light shading so it looks scratchy.

 

[smokebomb12]

FG is srsbsn for srsppl to get srsmuxp.and my cousin is as good as all top.

This is not a bait post but

May you please explain what you said there?

 

[ShinnyMetal]

@ Catana
You're avatar is reminding me that I really should watch that show. Looks great.

Also I'm honestly surprised you only have like 50 posts? I would have thought it'd be much higher since it seems people know you well here?

 

[ShinTwist ScreamPaste]

@ Catana
You're avatar is reminding me that I really should watch that show. Looks great.

Also I'm honestly surprised you only have like 50 posts? I would have thought it'd be much higher since it seems people know you well here?

Catana's an oldie who did a great deal of posting on AiB when we moved there last gen.

 

[ShinnyMetal]

Catana's an oldie who did a great deal of posting on AiB when we moved there last gen.

ah, that makes more sense

 

[Elessar]

@ Catana
You're avatar is reminding me that I really should watch that show. Looks great.

Also I'm honestly surprised you only have like 50 posts? I would have thought it'd be much higher since it seems people know you well here?

It's not just that, but she's also in xat all the time. Since that's where we hang out most of the time, we all know her despite her low post count.

 

[ShinnyMetal]

It's not just that, but she's also in xat all the time. Since that's where we hang out most of the time, we all know her despite her low post count.

I want to be on xat it's just inconvenient as hell on the phone lol

 

[Zane the pure]

And Cat never wastes words when posting, so many assume her to be short tempered and mean spirited.
I can assure you from the bottom of my heart it is only in the frustration of not being able to properly describe her affections toward you all and your exceptional playing ability.
Ladies and Gentlemen we have a Tsundere!

On the other hand, you know exactly who posted what with a personality like that. Iconic comes to mind, as Cat's posts are always helpful, and highly informative. Even the ones suggesting the consumption of excrement, and the evaluation of one's cranial data center are all meant with the best intentions.

Honest

 

[Catana]

I hate you all.

 

[link and ike lover]

I've played Dabuz, wrath, 6WX, Raffi- X, and samboner. I got wrecked by all of them lol.
RIP LNIM. 1998-2015
BUT SOME OF THEM WERE CLOSE

 

[smokebomb12]

Why are we praising Catana?


@ link and ike lover WHEN? WHERE? HOW?

tell me this so I may fight them? I only fought Jtails and got destroyed. But I will beat him one day.


But why are praising Catana?

I just want to know.

 

[ShinTwist ScreamPaste]

Catana plays smash competitively, never posts misinformation, always follows our rules, and has generally been a valuable member of our community.

You could learn from Catana.

4/10, made me reply.

 

[DUKEL]

Due to me spending the entire past weekend with Katakiri, I've decided to secondary MK to help cover some of our bad matchups.

I can already tell that he's going to take a lot of work. He plays very different from Link though, so I'm sure learning him will make me a better player.

 

[ShinTwist ScreamPaste]

It's not even brawl anymore and I still resent that little heap of bladed nonsense. For a while there, Ganondorf wasn't confirmed for Smash 4 yet, it took a long time for him to be confirmed, actually. But MK had been.

Had they included MK again and not Ganondorf, I would not have bought the game.

He probably makes for a decent secondary, though. So there's that. I still hate him.

 

[smokebomb12]

Catana plays smash competitively, never posts misinformation, always follows our rules, and has generally been a valuable member of our community.

You could learn from Catana.

4/10, made me reply.

I should learn to have a stock lead with a bowser that barley moves and plays and still lose? I should learn from him why?

 

[link and ike lover]

Why are we praising Catana?


@ link and ike lover WHEN? WHERE? HOW?

tell me this so I may fight them? I only fought Jtails and got destroyed. But I will beat him one day.


But why are praising Catana?

I just want to know.

Smashladder but most of them were close But they are the best of the best. I took down samboner with 2 stock left. But tthen he destroyed me the other 2 games. I spiked raffix in the first round but then won the other 2. And you know how the rest were. I'm glad they were lose and not complete blowouts.

 

[Elessar]

I have to be honest that my favourite posters are Shin and Cat. Their posts always make me giggle and feel all warm inside.

I simply have to share this. I just watched it, and this video is the definition of win.

@ ShinTwist ScreamPaste

Also, as long as we have Troy Baker, I think Mark Hamill can retire in peace (Relevant to the discussion we were having with @sasook).

 

[link and ike lover]

That double post lol

 

[FSK]

Messed around a bit in training mode. Which chars would keep their double jump if they got hit out of free fall after an up-b. Here's the results so far

Keeps DJ:
Falco, Fox, Ganondorf, Falcon, Zelda, Sheik, Mario, Luigi, Shulk, Roy, Robin, ZSS, Marth, Lucina, Bowser and Charizard

Does not keep DJ:
Gay, Link

 

[Rizen]

Would anyone like to wii u wifi?

 

[Linkmario00]

Would anyone like to wii u wifi?

Here I am. My NNID is Linkmario00.

 

[Rizen]

Here I am. My NNID is Linkmario00.

Okay Friend request sent and I'm hosting a room.
Edit, I'm going to play allstar. Tag me if you want to wifi.

 

[Elessar]

That double post lol

It was worth it. Fear not, however, for I reported it myself.

 

[Linkmario00]

Okay Friend request sent and I'm hosting a room.
Edit, I'm going to play allstar. Tag me if you want to wifi.

Sorry, I couldn't play. Maybe another time!

 

[Rizen]

Sorry, I couldn't play. Maybe another time!

Can you play right now?

 

[Dumbfire]

Would anyone like to wii u wifi?

Here I am. My NNID is Linkmario00.

Okay Friend request sent and I'm hosting a room.
Edit, I'm going to play allstar. Tag me if you want to wifi.

Sorry, I couldn't play. Maybe another time!

Can you play right now?

^That's why forums tend to not wok for arranging those things LOL

 

[Rizen]

@ Linkmario00 I found someone else. Maybe next time :/

 

[Linkmario00]

^That's why forums tend to not wok for arranging those things LOL

Lol I wanted to use Xat but Rizen wasn't there, so this happened

 

[Rizen]

Can you keep going Link? I'm not used to wifi and I keep being punished for punishing lol. I need to adjust my timing and learn the MU.
Lol damn it's one of those days when I'm about 30 frames slow; I can't get used to the lag.

 

[link and ike lover]

It was worth it. Fear not, however, for I reported it myself.

LOL!

Can you keep going Link? I'm not used to wifi and I keep being punished for punishing lol. I need to adjust my timing and learn the MU.

K, @ Rizen there is no lag lol