Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

[Elessar]

You guys remember when Link used to be pretty good? Thanks Sakurai.
Wonder how they'll demolish Link even further.

Wait till Sunday and you'll find out.

 

[Rizen]

Well this is the Link forum and people post here. In Brawl I would critique replays in the video thread and give MU advice. I'm not in a position to do that in SSB4 from lack of experience.

 

[link7]

Wait till Sunday and you'll find out.

May the Triforce of Courage be with us.

 

[smokebomb12]

In other words, your fundamentals as a player should be more important than your main's placement on a teir list. Just because you play a good character, doesn't exactly make you good. And besides, a teir list can change, so until you're a solid player, then it shouldn't mean jack s*** to you.

Edit: Didn't see Elessar's post when typing this, but yeah, what he said.

FG kid, I play as captain falcon cause he is fast, that makes me good at smash brothers automatically.

*looses to link on FG*

Link is OP, He needs a nerf!

*goes home crying*

@ link7 Links spin attack is worse than brawls and looses his tether recovery.

 

[DUKEL]

If anything is pointless, it would be reading your nonsensical post where not only you mentioned Shulk twice, but you also say "link is better but has bad MU vs". What, pray tell, was your measure for "better" if not MU?

I will respond to you under the cut since you asked a direct question here.

Spoiler

First - I mentioned Shulk twice? Check again. And in the replied posts so you can be sure I didn't just edit it out.
I do not think you know how tiers work. Tiers are built around MUs for every character. The characters that are worse than Link have worse MUs with the rest of the cast than Link does, which is why they're lower. Sheik is better than every character in the game, but she sure as heck has some bad MUs - just not as many as the rest of the cast. Little mac however, doesn't have a single favorable MU, so he is low tier, despite the fact that ZeRo thinks he's mid-B.
So. Link is better (has better overall MUs than) these characters, but some of the characters have MUs that do well against Link.

Heck, you even say that we have a favorable or equal MU vs ZSS. That itself already disqualified your entire "ranking".

In case none of you knew what a logical fallacy was, you're looking at one.

In fact, you entire ranking is off.

Nay - two!

We don't have an even or favorable MU vs Falcon nor Pikachu. Pit isn't worse than Link, and Gay and Wario aren't even with us.

Here, because you decided not to read my post;

I am willing to hear out counter arguments or whatever, but your reasoning behind it, and possibly game footage to accompany your argument would be appreciated.

Anyway. I have played the Pikachu matchup more than any other. He gives us trouble, but we stop all of his stuff and kill him early. I wouldn't say we have the advantage, but saying the MU is even is accurate imo. I could be wrong about falcon. However once again, we out prioritize the majority of his moves. A good spacing game stops any falcon. Heck, our own MU thread on falcon says that we have an even->maybe favorable MU with him. Just not lag falcon. That stuff's dumb.

Pit... I don't know about pit. He has one National-level main (Nakat, who has won APEX previously), and even he nearly got knocked out of a bracket by GimR's G&W just this week.

I've seen people argue that Gay is better here without giving an argument that's actually convincing. He has mobility, sure, but his edgeguarding game is crap and he relies so heavily on a bomb or projectile actually hitting his opponent, something that can be avoided by shielding.

I knew someone would say something about Wario. I actually secondary Wario and use him in teams so I do know something about his MUs. If you compare his MUs with Link's, they're actually nearly identical, except Wario can't even deal with Sonic, Luigi, Captain Falcon, or Pikachu. With the experience I've had (admittedly not as much as my Link experience), those MUs are actually worse for Wario than Link. Also, my list was based on 2 things - no customs, and 3 stock. Wario with customs is crazy powerful - I've killed a great player at 1% with a wonky customs combo. 2 stock Wario is also very powerful, because if he gets the first kill, then all he has to do is get his opponent to %50 or less and land the rage waft. But 3 stock Wario non-customs Wario is actually significantly less powerful than 2 stock Wario because he only has one Waft to use if his opponent plays smart and doesn't let Wario camp out the second Waft.

Link is crap because it takes too much effort to do anything. We have no real/worthwhile punishes, no combos, too slow to act on reaction, our cqc is a joke, we get out spammed by characters that have one projectile, get juggled too easily, and our grab game is dead. To do anything with Link you still have to be superior to your opponent since Link won't do crap for you.

There, want a tier list? That's one question that will give you one. Can this character win for me or must I win in spite of the char? If you have to win in spite of him (as is with Link) then he's a low tier char. Not because he's bad, but becuase he takes work and commitment with little pay. People will always flock to chars that win for you (little investment, high reward) and so their meta will be more developed and they will have more representation. Link is low tier because as a char he offers no advantages and you have to work for your wins.

And this is why I'm positive you don't know how tiers work. Link is Mid tier because of his MUs. It doesn't have anything to do with how difficult a character is to play as. For instance - Fox's waveshining in Melee is arguably one of the most difficult techs to pull off, but yet he is still top tier. Why is Fox top tier in melee? Is it because of how easy he is to play? No! It's because he has a superior MU against every character except Marth. My point is, midtiers in smash 4 will have MUs that their character wins for them, and they'll also have MUs where they have to win in spite of their character.

Hopefully my long freaking response shows that I actually put thought into each of my decisions, instead of just saying it because I have unrealistic beliefs about Link.

1) DUKEL was probably being snarky at cat and doesn't axtually/honestly want to hear from experience.

I was being half-sarcastic. I do actually want to hear his opinion. Was just responding to his snark with snark.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

Can we all just agree that Link got screwed over majorly? He was BARELY viable before the nerfs, then they destroyed him because he's popular.

Edit: We'll have to wait and see how he looks at high level play, of course, we already know that no one is going to play as him, because there are characters that are faster, stronger, and have a better projectile game, so there's no point in using Link professionally. Thing is, the devs know that we'll be using Link whether he's good or bad, so why even make him better?

 

[link7]

RIP Cristopher Lee. You made a great Saruman.

 

[Elessar]

RIP Cristopher Lee. You made a great Saruman.

He died?

That's it, I'm officially in mourning for the rest of the day. Good bye.

 

[DUKEL]

Can we all just agree that Link got screwed over majorly? He was BARELY viable before the nerfs, then they destroyed him because he's popular.

I blame AceStar. One of the most popular Smash YouTubers releasing a video declaring Link to be OP, simply because he wasn't a capable enough player to deal with him.

The video's very painful to watch. He pretty much posted it due to salt, and you can hear his whine the entire video.

So it was his video, and the many many many people calling the jab cancel an infinite...

He got nerfed so hard due to misinformation and stupidity.

 

[Zerker]

then they destroyed him because he's popular./quote]

Link's popular?
Wyut?

 

[DUKEL]

I saw three links at the last tourney I was at. And the tourney only had 60 people.

Granted, all three of them were FG Links but...

 

[Drigo Toes]

I saw three links at the last tourney I was at. And the tourney only had 60 people.

Granted, all three of them were FG Links but...

My last tournament were 3 links (including me) out of 36... the other two were FG level... btw, I'm a little more confident of myself to classify me as FG scrub...

 

[Serac]

Do you guys remember the tip in the vault that said that Link's jab linked into anything? I have been looking for it since some days ago and can't find it. Do any of you have a screenshot or a link about it that could share, please?

 

[DarkDeity15]

I blame AceStar. One of the most popular Smash YouTubers releasing a video declaring Link to be OP, simply because he wasn't a capable enough player to deal with him.

The video's very painful to watch. He pretty much posted it due to salt, and you can hear his whine the entire video.

So it was his video, and the many many many people calling the jab cancel an infinite...

He got nerfed so hard due to misinformation and stupidity.

Be sure to leave some hate comments for him and explain how Nintendo should have went about patching Link's jab. And the fact that Nintendo actually took his video seriously shows how inexperienced Sakurai's staff is. Why did Namco have to leave? Ugh.

To be honest, I'm not expecting anything out of this patch besides bombslides getting removed. I'll be surprised if Link gets any kind of buff, and I would have a seizure out of pure happiness if he got anything major. But again, I'm not expecting a lot of good coming from this patch.

Do you guys remember the tip in the vault that said that Link's jab linked into anything? I have been looking for it since some days ago and can't find it. Do any of you have a screenshot or a link about it that could share, please?

If that is indeed true, it could be safe to expect a buff to jab 2's ability to combo into things. But yeah, someone needs to look for that. I remember someone talking about it and saying that it was BS because jab 2 doesn't actually combo into anything besides maybe jab 3. But even if it is true that the information is in the game, Nintendo could always just remove it and not do ****.

 

[BaPTraPLaP]

Do you guys remember the tip in the vault that said that Link's jab linked into anything? I have been looking for it since some days ago and can't find it. Do any of you have a screenshot or a link about it that could share, please?

It is probably gone because that would be a false statement now.

 

[Zerker]

Do you guys remember the tip in the vault that said that Link's jab linked into anything? I have been looking for it since some days ago and can't find it. Do any of you have a screenshot or a link about it that could share, please?

I remember that tip in the vault.
It used to show up all the time for me.
Now it just makes me pissed when I remember it.

 

[DarkDeity15]

*Moved from my last post*

I've found the information on Smashwiki. "Standard Attack– Opponents struck by the full three-hit combo will get launched, or you can combine the first two hits with up or down smash attacks to keep things fresh".

Here's a link to where I found the info.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_tips_(SSB4-Wii_U)

Funny thing is, it doesn't actually mention anything about jab 2 being able to combo into his smashes besides maybe the word "combine". I guess we'll just have to wait and see if this means anything for Link's jab in the next patch.

 

[Dumbfire]

I wonder how many annoying ******* we'd get rid of if we just locked the social. Would sure clean up nicely.

 

[Zelkam]

Well, it is kind of hard to tell if someone is sarcastic on the internet. Maybe add some like *sarcasm* something next time you are sarcastic.

Or you could just, you know...use the forum's built in sarcasm feature? Just do like you're gonna make a quote or spoiler and write "sarcasm" in the brackets (without the quotation marks, of course). It'll generate a funny looking text Ļίķέ ţħίş.

Does it matter? Probably not. It's still something that we can discuss and debate over instead of the pointless trash that filled last page between former mod + person who puts too much stock in age.

A) I've never been a mod of the Link boards. Although I'm flattered that you liken my demeanor unto one worthy of modship.

B) When referring to 'pointless trash' I assume you're talking about the content that came from the opposite party because my posts most defiantly had a point. It just seems that some people (including the intended recipient) were too dense to realize it.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Or you could just, you know...use the forum's built in sarcasm feature? Just do like you're gonna make a quote or spoiler and write "sarcasm" in the brackets (without the quotation marks, of course). It'll generate a funny looking text Ļίķέ ţħίş.

A) I've never been a mod of the Link boards. Although I'm flattered that you liken my demeanor unto one worthy of modship.

B) When referring to 'pointless trash' I assume you're talking about the content that came from the opposite party because my posts most defiantly had a point. It just seems that some people (including the intended recipient) were too dense to realize it.

Most defiantly indeed lol.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

Yeah, I remember that, it made me even angrier cause they took it out after the jab nerf.

 

[ama99]

Actual List of Characters worse than Link:

 

[link7]

Actual List of Characters worse than Link:

Well played.

 

[ShinnyMetal]

I finally felt like I was getting back to the swing of things with link again last night. I guess grueling away at absolutely sucking it up with lucario gave me the break I needed. Also I played the "how many times can I hit you with upb" game.

 

[smokebomb12]

RIP Cristopher Lee. You made a great Saruman.

He played a great Count dooku from star wars and saruman from LotR. He will be missed.

May the Triforce of Courage be with us.

This patch better buff Link is some areas.

I blame AceStar. One of the most popular Smash YouTubers releasing a video declaring Link to be OP, simply because he wasn't a capable enough player to deal with him.

The video's very painful to watch. He pretty much posted it due to salt, and you can hear his whine the entire video.

So it was his video, and the many many many people calling the jab cancel an infinite...

He got nerfed so hard due to misinformation and stupidity.

****ing **** head. Hope they nerf his character hard.

Link's popular?
Wyut?

Link popular... *busts out laughing* more like infamous.

 

[ama99]

Link popular... *busts out laughing* more like infamous.

Except for the fact that he wins the favorite video game character tourney every year?

 

[smokebomb12]

Except for the fact that he wins the favorite video game character tourney every year?

But we are not talking about 'favorite video game character tourney' are we?

 

[ShinnyMetal]

Except for the fact that he wins the favorite video game character tourney every year?

People WANT to play as link. It's just a shame he's poo. He is used by casual people a looot

 

[smokebomb12]

People WANT to play as link. It's just a shame he's poo. He is used by casual people a looot

THANK YOU! ShinnyMetal I love. You get what I am saying.

 

[ama99]

But we are not talking about 'favorite video game character tourney' are we?

I am merely stating that Link is a popular character, there is indisputable evidence supporting that. Especially among more casual players.

The only group that he is "infamous" among are salty scrubs who can't shield.

 

[smokebomb12]

I am merely stating that Link is a popular character, there is indisputable evidence supporting that. Especially among more casual players.

The only group that he is "infamous" among are salty scrubs who can't shield.

Yeah, I can't disagree with you. I have a friend who loves the Zelda series... But says Link is his least favorite character cause I 2 stock him every time we play. LOL scrubs.

 

[8MAN]

The only potential buff I see coming, is dtilt. They're probably going to make it kill like a normal move again, because dtilt as of now can't even kill in sudden death - which is bullsh**.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I just posted a few things in the metagame thread if you guys feel like taking a look and sparking a conversation there. Besides, the thread hasn't seen too much activity for a while. It's about time we fully revive it, especially with the patch coming this weekend.

 

[smokebomb12]

The only potential buff I see coming, is dtilt. They're probably going to make it kill like a normal move again, because dtilt as of now can't even kill in sudden death - which is bullsh**.

you tried to kill with Dtilt on sudden death?

 

[The Merc]

Have you guys heard this piece yet?

Its.....beautiful.....

It brings back a lot of memories.

Just because it's different doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.

I don't know. A lot of the time that seems to be the case with some series. Just look at SS.

Or you could just, you know...use the forum's built in sarcasm feature? Just do like you're gonna make a quote or spoiler and write "sarcasm" in the brackets (without the quotation marks, of course). It'll generate a funny looking text Ļίķέ ţħίş.

There's a sarcasm feature?

[sarcasm]Testing[/sarcasm]

Edit: Dam, it's not working :/

 

[smokebomb12]

Have you guys heard this piece yet?

Its.....beautiful.....

It brings back a lot of memories.



I don't know. A lot of the time that seems to be the case with some series. Just look at SS.



There's a sarcasm feature?

[sarcasm]Testing[/sarcasm]

Edit: Dam, it's not working :/

Skyward sword was amazing.

 

[8MAN]

you tried to kill with Dtilt on sudden death?

I don't attempt the impossible.

 

[TurboLink]

I blame AceStar. One of the most popular Smash YouTubers releasing a video declaring Link to be OP, simply because he wasn't a capable enough player to deal with him.

The video's very painful to watch. He pretty much posted it due to salt, and you can hear his whine the entire video.

So it was his video, and the many many many people calling the jab cancel an infinite...

He got nerfed so hard due to misinformation and stupidity.

Can I have a link to this video?

 

[smokebomb12]

I don't attempt the impossible.

WHOA! that hit me like a brick. well played man, well played.

 

[Zelkam]

Edit: Dam, it's not working :/

Hm...thats weird. Maybe it's a premium member only thing?