Life is but a Moment, a Single Grain of Sand: Ness Survival Tips and Discussion

[GMaster171]

Weird technique that allows near perfect consistant Moonwalks (Let me get Falco to go backwards so its extremely effective and easy). Even with this, Ness still goes too far forward and like nowhere backwards :/

It is done by Holding "A", moon walking and tapping the c-stick in the direction your character is facing while holding the control stick the opposite way.every time you tap, you dash, but then instantly MW as you are holding back. lets you get across stages with people like Falcon, Sonic, Link and Lucario easy.

Not my discovery tho, Traffic found it, I'm just paraphrasing what he said in the squirtle general discussion.

Question, how do you approach? Fair and Bair get lots of use from me, with PKF camping on stages with plats coming second.

 

[Bryonato]

I just generally use a lot of DJC mixups with spaced PKFire's in between. I would like to utilize DJCFF Bair more often tbh as I like how low you get to the ground and how small Ness' vertical hurtbox gets.

I really like B-Reversing PKFire as will Ness weird jump mobility options you can fit it into some weird spots and catch out your opponent pretty often even if they're looking for it.

 

[GMaster171]

Topic: Ness in doubles!

opinion:
Ness does very well in doubles, especially with a team mate that can compensate for Ness' lack of space control. In the actual fight, Ness is small, quick, and his combos are precise and deadly. In addition, as long as you DI, and your ally is doing something, not many people have the time to get a good edgeguard on Ness. Keep DIing up, stall with magnet if your ally is dead/gaining the ledge, and recoveries are rather free.

Next, Ness is that weird weight/falling speed that not too many long combos work on him, but he also can live forever with some watching, DI and tactics. In my matches, I both survived rest at 40%, and lived to 220% against Wario/Falcon team.

Notes:

• don't use PKF too much, its a burden to your ally more than a aid, as unless you are in 1v1s, its a really large hitbox that must be maneuvered around. Its much easier to DD/DJC camp to get hits/combos than it is to PKF confirm.
• Throws can be dangerous. D-throw, while being the best throw to combo/kill with, is extremely slow, and very punishable. Use it if you are covered by ally/platform, but otherwise f/b-throw may be better, to do quick damage, move them around (towards edge or their own ally), and might even get a follow up from your ally.
• Watch your ally. Seems obvious, but Ness loses the 2v1 badly, and can have trouble in some 1v1s. Be prepared to ditch edgeguards/combos to help out, there's not much Ness can do to aide recovery, but coming in with fair/PKF is a good incentive for the opponent to get off the edge.
• DAIR. nuff said
• Seriously tho, be fully willing to cut combos short with a dair. It's his 2nd most damaging aerial, and puts the opponent in a bad position, as hes open for tech chasing from both you, and your ally if you move right.

Other:
Screw double Marth
These are my opinions developed through a couple hours of doubles, you do not need to follow these to the word, I encourage you to post your own thoughts on the matter. If something I said seems too wrong to leave alone, post and we may discuss. That's what this thread is for.

 

[Bryonato]

I love Ness in doubles, especially when you can abuse the Magnet with an energy based teammate. I remember ESAM and Nekos did something like that with Pika and Lucas in Brawl.

 

[GMaster171]

You guys find any way to regrab ledge quickly to refresh invincibility/stall edge guarders? I find that I do get to the ledge, but getting on is hell, especially against higher range characters. I sit there going over my options, and none of them let me get on safely, so I just try mixups and hope it works.

You guys have much luck?

 

[Soft Serve]

I haven't tested anything, but could you ledge stall with magnet similarly to how Spacies can? Also I remember than Lucas can/used to be able to regrab by droping back and instantly up-bing.

 

[SinisterB]

Ness can instant grab with turnaround magnet. Can be done out of edge canceled PKT2 and stuff, nifty cause it puts out a hitbox before grabbing the edge.

Or the global RAR Dashing works just fine.

-Durr thought you meant getting to the ledge, I usually just time my ledgegrab so I don't really need to worry about refreshing invincibility. Coming up with an aerial like NAir or intercepting them with PKF is usually enough. PKT2 sweetspots are ok. Otherwise just ledgedash back imo, utilize ledgejumps since you get options now unlike Melee.

Gonna have to test out that magnet stuff myself when I get a chance Soft, I think you could make it work.


ps GM171 Ness has to manually moonwalk, traff's method doesn't work with certain characters like Ness because they go too far forward initially.

 

[The_NZA]

Hey guys, I've noticed some inconsistencies in how Ness's recovery behaves when sliding against walls. In melee this was a huge problem (I would all it a problem) in that Ness's recovery was inconsistent...sometimes you would slide along the side of FD and catch teh ledge and other times you would bounce off it or overshoot it in a way that the angle you slide against puts you too far from the ledge for you to grab it.

I've noticed this issue in PM on certain stages. For example, on FD if i hit myself when Im close to the side, i almost always recover, but If i hit myself on the side of wario ware or Yoshi's island brawl, the wall will eat some of my momentum if i dont hit myself perfectly, instead of translating my momentum against the wall into an upward trajectory.

Has anyone else felt these problems, and on what stages and in what ways do they manifest?

To change gears a bit, is this still something people aren't having problems with? I was hoping we could make a list of stages where horizontal momentum translates to vertical momentum, and on which ones does your PK2 just get eaten up.

 

[Bryonato]

tbh i kind of like how it can eat your momentum because if you can angle the pkt2 correctly into a wall you can basically sweetspot the ledge without ever rising above it. Super helpful on smaller stages like WW.

 

[The_NZA]

I want to make a list of stages where it acts differently. Right now, my muscle memory isn't used to the different stages and I can often die on a stage because I assume I've hit the right pkt2 that will allow me to barely catch the ledge, and instead I just spin against the side like a top and gravity lols at me.