Lie Detector: Death Note l OVER l Unfortunately they won't be making an appearance...

[~ Gheb ~]

Empower yourself, you fool.

 

[BSL]

Stop saying that you sound like a douche.

 

[Dabuz]

No reason to, really. To be honest, I'm not sure how I can help. I don't want to play this the way everyone is playing it, but I'm at a complete loss for how to move this in the right direction, or even what direction that is.

Then what does your vote on BW do?

You must agree to some extent with Gheb's approach if you're reason for that vote is because you agree with Gheb.

 

[Dabuz]

Gheb, do you think BW is playing dumb this game or "playing" dumb this game?

Hando's complete reluctance to share information makes me think he's town. There's no way in hell Kira would be stupid enough to intentionally make anti-town posts like that and draw attention to himself.

He might as well be saying "yeah my play is suspicious and I don't give a **** what anyone thinks." Basic Mafia 101 tells me this is more likely to come from town mindset.

No, calling anti-town play too anti-town to be from an anti-town player makes no sense.

Why is NO ONE on Hando's ass for voting Gheb and then completely ignoring my requests to explain his reasoning? How is everyone not seeing the anti-town in that and how bad it is if we let him throw out votes and never explain the logic?

 

[Dabuz]

This isn't sitting well with me at all. This is probably the most anti-town post I've seen so far. Not necessarily Kira-esque, but you're not helping the town at all, and that's not what we need right now.

Also, Zen, will we be notified if Kira attempts a kill, but doesn't have a correct name/avatar combination?

Your first segment of this post was just restating them same thing 3 times. What are you going to do about his post? What about his play in general? Why does it feel like you're not actually in this game?

 

[The Real Gamer]

My summary/reads as of now:

Most likely town

Gheb: Acting as the voice of reason. Seems to be genuinely invested in the game more so than anyone else. Has yet to do anything overly suspicious. Initial attitude towards game went directly against Kira's win condition.

Dabuz: Acting as the enforcer. Didn't contribute too much towards the beginning until he realized nothing was really happening, then started grilling people. Doing a good job of moving the game forward and questioning anything suspicious that comes up.

The Phazon Assassin: This is a null read. Hasn't contributed much but hasn't done anything suspicious as of yet. Seems to be the least active of the rest of the players. Need to see more out of this one.

BSL: Seems genuinely confused about what to do and is kind of floating around until something happens. Also a null read, but leaning slightly more towards the Kira side.

Hando: The lone wolf of the group. Doesn't want to cooperate with anyone and is doing things at his own pace. Actions pretty much scream anti-town but I still can't figure out if that's enough to assume he's Kira in a game like this.

Badwolf: Claimed to want to put someone on the lie detector "to see how Kira would react." But instead of putting a vote on someone and arguing why "x" deserves to go on the lie detector he instead seems reluctant to say who he actually wants to ID as a means of not drawing unnecessary attention to himself. Posts seem reactive rather than proactive.

Most likely Kira

Would like opinions on these reads. Rip it up and tear it to shreds if you want, just don't ignore it.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Has anyone played a game of Mafia with Hando before? If yes does he always play like this or is this type of behavior unique to this game?

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'd also like to see everyone else's reads atm if possible.

 

[BSL]

Then what does your vote on BW do?

You must agree to some extent with Gheb's approach if you're reason for that vote is because you agree with Gheb.

I'm not going to not play, I just said I didn't want to. I did agree with gheb's analysis, and so I agreed with his vote.

In other words, I can't find a direction to take the game, nor can I find a way to change the direction of the game, so I will follow its direction until I can think of something.

 

[Dabuz]

My summary/reads as of now:

Most likely town

Gheb: Acting as the voice of reason. Seems to be genuinely invested in the game more so than anyone else. Has yet to do anything overly suspicious. Initial attitude towards game went directly against Kira's win condition.

Dabuz: Acting as the enforcer. Didn't contribute too much towards the beginning until he realized nothing was really happening, then started grilling people. Doing a good job of moving the game forward and questioning anything suspicious that comes up.

The Phazon Assassin: This is a null read. Hasn't contributed much but hasn't done anything suspicious as of yet. Seems to be the least active of the rest of the players. Need to see more out of this one.

BSL: Seems genuinely confused about what to do and is kind of floating around until something happens. Also a null read, but leaning slightly more towards the Kira side.

Hando: The lone wolf of the group. Doesn't want to cooperate with anyone and is doing things at his own pace. Actions pretty much scream anti-town but I still can't figure out if that's enough to assume he's Kira in a game like this.

Badwolf: Claimed to want to put someone on the lie detector "to see how Kira would react." But instead of putting a vote on someone and arguing why "x" deserves to go on the lie detector he instead seems reluctant to say who he actually wants to ID as a means of not drawing unnecessary attention to himself. Posts seem reactive rather than proactive.

Most likely Kira

Would like opinions on these reads. Rip it up and tear it to shreds if you want, just don't ignore it.

I'm not going to argue with your reads for the fact that they are reads, it's all substantiated which is good. How much mafia experience do you have? It's very important.

I'd also like to see everyone else's reads atm if possible.

Not Kira:
Dabuz

Could be KiraGheb
TRG
Phazon AssassinBSL
Hando
BW

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, do you think BW is playing dumb this game or "playing" dumb this game?

I'm trying to find out.

No, calling anti-town play too anti-town to be from an anti-town player makes no sense.

Why is NO ONE on Hando's *** for voting Gheb and then completely ignoring my requests to explain his reasoning? How is everyone not seeing the anti-town in that and how bad it is if we let him throw out votes and never explain the logic?

Hando: The lone wolf of the group. Doesn't want to cooperate with anyone and is doing things at his own pace. Actions pretty much scream anti-town but I still can't figure out if that's enough to assume he's Kira in a game like this.

Has anyone played a game of Mafia with Hando before? If yes does he always play like this or is this type of behavior unique to this game?

He often plays like this and I don't see a problem at the moment.

@dabuz: Hando has voted BSL and explained his reasoning.
@TRG: What of his actions scream anti-town? What gives you the impression that he doesn't want to cooperate with anyone?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@mod

Could you please send Phazon Assassin a reminder that he should be posting?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

But you don't "actually have ideas". At least, you haven't shown us in any way that you have. Saying "no" without having any alternative solution is not better than saying yes and going with the flow. Should I assume that you're not Kira just because you "dare" to oppose me? The main point is that you've been paying in a fashion that I believe makes more sense to do as Kira than as detective. Your fake opposition is not a valid counter-argument because it's fake, unless you finally decide to make yourself actually useful by giving us something better. That'd be something I expect a detective to do, rather than trying to wiggle his way out of this argument.

I think that you'd be smart enough to understand that I don't enjoy being part of the spotlight and only catch it if something bothers me. I would have hoped that you would have come to the same conclusion as me to find someone who's being suspicious instead of counting the town points of each person, because I CAN rack those up but it's not the best way to play the game imo. It gives Kira a too high chance of getting away because he can ****ing bandwagon and everyone else will go "HEY WELL AT LEAST WE ALL AGREED." then proceed to give another kill to Kira without further thought. Hell, IF I were Kira I would find a mid range wagon, jump it, then put down some **** reason as to why I'm on it. If it doesn't go my way then I don't have a bad ID under my belt, still get a kill, and have decent town cred. Gratz again Kira wins.

My ideas were to play like a normal game, I'm not jumping on anyone to get someone on the ID, but I don't think that we should be playing passively. It's not a good idea. I don't want to play it like that.

You are not "getting shot down". You are shooting down. You are the offender, not the victim.

You said what you wanted to do ... but people disagree with it. That's not "shooting you down" - it's being reasonable and opting for the ideal strategy. Moreover though, you have still not explained why it's a bad idea to play this game "backwards". You just don't want it. Why? As long as you're not explaining yourself sufficiently I have no reason to assume anything other than that you are not playing in the detectives' best interest. Show us why your plan is better than mine. Do you want the detectives to win this game or not?

I've explained it. Start reading.

Because suppose that I'm actually Kira. I'm looking at your play, and seeing as you're one of the stronger players in the game, I disagree with it. WHY? Why would I want to put myself in the spotlight? I keep telling you that Kira is going to be low profile, and will stay such unless we actually do your plan and play it backwards. THEN it won't actually work anyway because he'll just agree with whatever the strongest player is saying and scrape up some **** reasoning to go behind it. Since he would be following the strong player, he has a shield who would cover for him when his ID's go awry.

I'm getting really ****ing tired of repeating myself in every damn game.

I don't make assumptions and I don't ask myself "why would X do Y?".

Why would you want to put myself in the spotlight? Well, you yourself have said that Kira wants to avoid the spotlight [that in itself is a pretty baseless assumption to make]. However, if everybody knows that Kira tries to avoid the spotlight, then it'd be only logical for Kira to not avoid the spotlight as that'd unmask him as Kira, right?
You see, there's a huge problem with this logic upon which you base your argument. Because now you can twist that argument yet another time: since it's established now that Kira *does* have to stay in the spotlight somewhat it would only make sense for him to avoid the spotlight because staying in the spotlight would unmask him as Kira. You can twist this argument ad infinitum without ever actually getting anywhere. This is what we called WIFOM. It's frowned upon and avoided for a good reason. I'm not going to accept your assumption that Kira wants to avoid the spotlight to be accurate. I'm not assuming anything. But I see that your play makes more sense to be played that way as Kira than as detective. And assumptions on your part won't change that impression.

I play assumptions and intentions. Right now I'm looking at why you're pursuing me this hard when BSL is a better play imo.

I'm assuming that Kira will avoid the spotlight because he is the only mafiat, in which case, he dies we win. SO why put himself in the way of anyone's arguments? Why even try to get into it unless people are calling him out? It's really not that hard to wrap your head around. It doesn't matter if you're holding the sword as long as it's pointed away from you.

Spotlight Kira would be bad play.

1.) What intentions have you read in him and how have you concluded them?
2.) What's PG playstyle and why don't you find it good?
3.) Why does every answer you give me raise 3 counter questions instead of actually solve the issue?
4.) Do you understand that point 3.) is a massive problem in your play? You're supposed to help us win the game if you're a detective but you're making yourself an enigma with completely useless answers and it's clear that your life means more to you than our victory.

1. He's not kira, or if he is he's damn good at it.
2. I don't like the idea of playing backwards. It doesn't make sense to me.
3. Maybe cause you don't read.
4. Sorry, I suck apparently, or that's what I'm told.

1.) Too many assumptions. Afaik, you can't track anybody watching a thread or lurking with the new SWF design. Even then people can go invisible. Even if all that weren't the case, somebody else would have to be on exactly the same time to confirm whether a player has been in the thread or not.

2.) Not assuming anything. Also, how does that help us? What kind of tells could the timing of a kill possibly give us?

3.) There are no connections to be drawn from the kills themselves, the only thing we learn from a flip is who pushed for that player to be revealed.

1 & 2: I'd said that I had realised the fact after posting.

3. Why not? If Kira is on either wagon, it's going to draw connections.

It matters because it distorts facts.

I'm sorry did you actually think that I'm going to keel over from old age? I will stop then, before my heart goes out.

No reason to, really. To be honest, I'm not sure how I can help. I don't want to play this the way everyone is playing it, but I'm at a complete loss for how to move this in the right direction, or even what direction that is.

I'm baffled how I can say that I don't like people's play and get flak for it, but then BSL pretty much outright says he's not going to post and no one's even really looked at this.

Badwolf: Claimed to want to put someone on the lie detector "to see how Kira would react." But instead of putting a vote on someone and arguing why "x" deserves to go on the lie detector he instead seems reluctant to say who he actually wants to ID as a means of not drawing unnecessary attention to himself. Posts seem reactive rather than proactive.

I never said that I wanted to see how Kira would react, you're putting words into my mouth. I don't know who I want to put on the ID but I have a decent list of reads atm. I can't do proactive because I'm busy most of the ****ing time and all I have time for is reacting to people shooting at me. Deal with it. I can't put an amazing amount of time into this game anymore. Possibly less time than I am putting into it now if I ever get another ****ing job.

 

[Xivii]

@mod

Could you please send Phazon Assassin a reminder that he should be posting?

I cannot.

 

[Dabuz]

@dabuz: Hando has voted BSL and explained his reasoning.

He didn't explain his reasoning for voting you, which is what I keep bringing up.

 

[BSL]

BW you keep mentioning connections but those DO NOT EXIST. LITERALLY THEY CANNOT EXIST. No one has any information aside from who they are.

In a mafia game, mafia peeps have connections to other mafia peeps because they ARE connected. They know each other. They plan together.

People pushing for one lynch or another also draws connections because they kill every night and can kill people who might be on the right track. Or they can kill people on the wrong track for misdirection.

This game, Kira is alone. He doesn't have anyone to be connected to. There's also no connections to be drawn from his kills because:
A) he can't kill whoever he wants
B) we can't drawl correlations from reads of dead people because EVERYONE will be dead at the end unless we find Kira.



As for my post that you quoted, I wasn't saying I won't play or post. As I already explained, I was saying I had no way to convince him to unvote me. I can't, at the moment, provide productive play. I can play the way you guys are playing, but I don't consider it productive because I don't think it's how we need to play this.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'm not going to argue with your reads for the fact that they are reads, it's all substantiated which is good. How much mafia experience do you have? It's very important.

1) Signed up for this game with no prior mafia experience thinking I could just wing it.
2) Realized I was going to have no idea what I was doing after reading some games that were played here.
3) Signed up on mafiascum and played a full game there to learn the basics during the DDOS attack.
4) Now I'm here.

Not Kira:
Dabuz

Could be KiraGheb
TRG
Phazon AssassinBSL
Hando
BW

I'm not buying this... There has to be at least one person that sticks out to you (on either the Kira or town side).

@TRG: What of his actions scream anti-town? What gives you the impression that he doesn't want to cooperate with anyone?

I'm Kira.

Everything is in my Notebook of Observations, for my eyes only. I'm doing my own detective work.

I have no desire to work through posting why. I'm an independent player and I don't have to be afraid of the detectives.

I never said that I wanted to see how Kira would react, you're putting words into my mouth.

Oh really?

I personally don't think that sitting passively could actually give us a decent lead on Kira, I think that we might have to sacrifice someone to see how exactly the mechanics work in our favor. I don't think that the first person we put on the DNA is going to be Kira, but I do think that it has to be done in order to get the game started almost.

I don't see how exactly that's a bad plan, one person being put on the ID will give us a smaller pool of people to get Kira from and a small chance of getting him in the first place. Plus afterwards we can see how quickly the kill goes down and also find out how it does. What's really going to bother me is the absence of night, I don't know how it's going to affect the game and I'm naturally curious.

I don't know who I want to put on the ID but I have a decent list of reads atm. I can't do proactive because I'm busy most of the ****ing time and all I have time for is reacting to people shooting at me. Deal with it. I can't put an amazing amount of time into this game anymore. Possibly less time than I am putting into it now if I ever get another ****ing job.

You can play the "I'm too busy to be active" card all you want. The fact remains that the only time you even bother posting anything of substance is when someone is grilling you. In other words, you seem much more concerned with your own personal image than hunting Kira.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Oh really?

YEAH, that's not seeing how he's reacting, that's seeing his reaction TIME. I know how the **** he's going to react. HE'S GOING TO KILL THEM.

You can play the "I'm too busy to be active" card all you want. The fact remains that the only time you even bother posting anything of substance is when someone is grilling you. In other words, you seem much more concerned with your own personal image than hunting Kira.

You try taking 7 college classes. Not easy.

 

[The Real Gamer]

YEAH, that's not seeing how he's reacting, that's seeing his reaction TIME. I know how the **** he's going to react. HE'S GOING TO KILL THEM.

So wtf is gauging how long it takes for Kira to kill the person we ID going to do for the detectives exactly? Either way my point is that you want to ID someone for a **** reason.

You try taking 7 college classes. Not easy.

"I'm busy, therefore I'm unable to take 10 minutes out of my day to make a constructive post to help contribute to our Kira hunt."

OK. Then why don't we put you on the lie detector to "see how long it takes Kira to kill you" then? That way 1) we get to execute your **** plan, and 2) that's 1 less distraction from your classes.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

So wtf is gauging how long it takes for Kira to kill the person we ID going to do for the detectives exactly? Either way my point is that you want to ID someone for a **** reason.

"I'm busy, therefore I'm unable to take 10 minutes out of my day to make a constructive post to help contribute to our Kira hunt."

OK. Then why don't we put you on the lie detector to "see how long it takes Kira to kill you" then? That way 1) we get to execute your **** plan, and 2) that's 1 less distraction from your classes.

You need to read, I've addressed all of this.

And don't be salty at me, you're the one who's attacking and putting words in my mouth.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Putting words in your mouth... I'm sorry. You're right. Putting someone on the ID to figure out Kira's "timing" is a much more solid plan than what I said and I apologize for the mix up.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Regardless I still think you're most likely Kira and you have yet to do anything to convince me otherwise.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Putting words in your mouth... I'm sorry. You're right. Putting someone on the ID to figure out Kira's "timing" is a much more solid plan than what I said and I apologize for the mix up.

I ADDRESSED THIS, GO BACK AND READ GODDAMNIT

#caps

 

[The Real Gamer]

Using caps doesn't make you sound any more authoritative.

But regardless I'll go back and read the last couple of pages (again) to see if I overlooked anything.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Actually I'll get to that later cause I forgot the World Series is on!

 

[Dabuz]

1) Signed up for this game with no prior mafia experience thinking I could just wing it.
2) Realized I was going to have no idea what I was doing after reading some games that were played here.
3) Signed up on mafiascum and played a full game there to learn the basics during the DDOS attack.
4) Now I'm here.

Ok, that's good to know.

I'm not buying this... There has to be at least one person that sticks out to you (on either the Kira or town side).

Oh, completely. Right now it benefits Kira more than town if Kira knows exactly where I stand.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Using caps doesn't make you sound any more authoritative.

But regardless I'll go back and read the last couple of pages (again) to see if I overlooked anything.

Then stop being an idiot and actually do it.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Claiming I'm acting like an idiot doesn't do anything for your authoritativeness either. You're making it too easy bro. lol just chill

You claim you want to play this like a normal game of mafia BW... So as a detective why haven't you been pressuring anyone? That's what town does in a normal game of mafia, no?

Right now it benefits Kira more than town if Kira knows exactly where I stand.

Care to elaborate? If there's actually a disadvantage to posting reads then I'm failing to see it.

 

[Dabuz]

Care to elaborate? If there's actually a disadvantage to posting reads then I'm failing to see it.

There are no connections to make for town players because there is only one scum. If I post my reads, how does that give you any more info than what my actions, my pressure, ect. do for you?

However, Kira can use that insight in a manipulative sort of way. If he sees i'm on the wrong path and pushing a detective, he could try to push that same person, if i'm on the right path, maybe he will try to throw suspicion my way, ect. By Kira not knowing exactly where I stand, it's harder for him to know how to tiptoe around my detective work.

 

[The Real Gamer]

...good points

*brb changing my reads*

 

[Handorin]

Tsk tsk. Look at those detectives quarrel over nothing.

Less talking,
More voting BSL.

 

[Dabuz]

Tsk tsk. Look at those detectives quarrel over nothing.

Less talking,
More voting BSL.

What's he at?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Tsk tsk. Look at those detectives quarrel over nothing.

Less talking,
More voting BSL.

I agree with this.

Vote BSL

I swear if someone accuses me of sheeping I will blow their knees off.

 

[The Real Gamer]

How is that not sheeping? At least state why BSL seems scummy.

But just in case excuse me while I put on a pair of bulletproof knee pads.

 

[Dabuz]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

<3 you BW

 

[The Real Gamer]

Badwolf is acting like a sheep.
But deep down he's really a wolf disguised as a sheep.
But he's not just a wolf.
He's a BAD wolf.
In the context of this game, Kira = bad
Therefore, Badwolf = Kira

Case solved.

 

[Xivii]

Votes [Needed: 4]

hando - 2
badwolf - 2
bsl - 2
dabuz - 1

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

How is that not sheeping? At least state why BSL seems scummy.

But just in case excuse me while I put on a pair of bulletproof knee pads.

Do you even read? Ever? At all? Like any of my posts?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

What's so stupid is that it's right above where I was calling you out for putting words in my mouth. Really I think I need to quote everything of mine.

Wall then quote.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I've already read your reasoning. You haven't provided anything new that we could be overlooking and waited until you were prodded by Hando to actually cast a vote which = sheeping.