Levelling Up Shulk's Arts - Custom Moveset Discussion 3.0

[erico9001]

Link to ye olde, locked Shulk customs thread

Welcome to the Shulk customs thread! Here, you can learn about and discuss all things having to deal with Shulk's custom moves. Shulk's custom moves both improve and vastly change his playstyle. Each move is unique! Learning about Shulk's custom moves is an opportunity for you to improve your gameplay, and/or play with a new style that is more suited for you! Let's get started.

Are you already familiar with all of this? (Monado) Jump on into the discussion!

Custom Monado Arts (Neutral Special)

(1): Monado Arts
Your Monado Arts last 16 seconds and have a 10 second cooldown period. Each Monado Art has a certain buff and debuff. It takes .75 of a second for a regular Monado Art to activate after being cycled to.

(2): Decisive Monado Arts
Your Monado Arts last for 20 seconds and only have a 5 second cooldown period. The buffs are boosted to be exactly halfway between regular Monado Arts and Hyper Monado Arts, while the debuffs remain the same as regular Monado Arts. It takes 1.5 seconds for a Decisive Monado Art to activate after being cycled to. Unlike the other two Monado Art customs, Decisive Monado Arts cannot be deactivated.

(3): Hyper Monado Arts
Your Monado Arts have vastly amplified buffs and debuffs. However, they last for only 6 seconds and have a 15 second cooldown. The amount of time it takes for these arts to activate once they have been cycled to is the same amount of time as the regular Monado Arts.

Specifics about each different art:

DEFAULT MONADO ARTS

Monado Art | Damage Taken | Damage Dealt | Weight Change | Jump Height | Ground Speed | Air Speed | Fall Speed | Shield Health
翔(Jump) | +22% (1.22×) | None. | None. | + | | ++ | ++ 疾(Speed) | None. | −20% (0.8×) | None. | – | + | + 盾(Shield) | −33% (0.67×) | −30% (0.7×) | +44 | – | – | – | | + 斬(Buster) | +13% (1.13×) | +40% (1.4×) | None
撃(Smash) | None. | –50% (0.5×) | –12.5

DECISIVE MONADO ARTS

Monado Art | Damage Taken | Damage Dealt | Weight Change | Jump Height | Ground Speed | Air Speed | Fall Speed | Shield Health
翔(Jump) | +22% (1.22x) | None. | None. | ++ | | +++ | +++ 疾(Speed) | None. | –20% (0.8x) | None. | – | ++ | ++ 盾(Shield) | –39.7% (0.603x) | -30% (0.7x) | ? | – | – | – | | ++ 斬(Buster) | +13% (1.13x) | +54% (1.54x) | None.
撃(Smash) | None. | –50% (0.5x) | -12.5

HYPER MONADO ARTS

Monado Art | Damage Taken | Damage Dealt | Weight Change | Jump Height | Ground Speed | Air Speed | Fall Speed | Shield Health
翔(Jump) | +46.4% (1.464×) | None. | None. | ++ | | ++++ | ++++ 疾(Speed) | None. | –37.0% (0.63×) | None. | - - | +++ | +++ 盾(Shield) | –47.4% (0.536×) | –44% (0.56×) | +87 | - - | - - | - - | | +++ 斬(Buster) | +35.0% (1.35x) | +68% (1.68×) | None.
撃(Smash) | None. | –60% (0.4×) | –35

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Custom back slash (Side Special)

(1): Back Slash
Shulk does a leap forward and comes down with his sword in front of him. If the attack hits the opponent's back, it deals more damage. It is slow, with 22 frames of start-up (hits opponents above at first). Can deal up to 16% damage on the back (Vanilla).

(2): Back Slash Leap
Shulk does a leap upwards and then descends downwards with his sword in front of him. The move has less horizontal range than Back Slash, but goes higher. The start-up time is 28 frames, and it hits grounded opponents faster than Back Slash. The damage output is similar to default back slash. When falling from the air, it falls at a more vertical angle, and falls much faster. Has more end-lag than regular back slash, but this is mitigated if you land on a platform above you using the move. The move has the capability to deal the most damage - 18% on the back (Vanilla) - which is obtained most commonly from hitting an opponent on a higher platform while landing on that platform.

(3): Back slash Charge
Shulk charges far forward and slashes the target. It has super armor that starts on frame 1 and lasts until frame 31, right before the hitbox comes out. This means it can be used to get out of combos. It has a very large horizontal leap, but does not go very high. Damage output and knockback are usually much weaker than the other custom moves. However, it can deal up to 15 damage (Vanilla) on its start-up. Another drawback is the move has a lot more end-lag, making it unsafe on hit at low percents or while in Monado Buster. The main uses of this move are to use it as an alternative means to recover or as a way out of combos. It can also surprise opponents by hitting them from far away.

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Custom air slash (Up Special)

(1): Air Slash
A mostly vertical recovery move with some capability to move horizontally, especially if drifting horizontally while delaying the two strikes of the move. As a frame 10, long range move, it can also be used to attack. However, the move is unsafe if whiffed and often even if it hits (low percents or in monado buster).

(2): Advancing Air Slash
On the first strike, Shulk slashes upwards with the same height as regular Air Slash. Then, the second slash sends him slightly lower and far forward. The second slash can be delayed more than regular Air Slash's second slash. If delayed a lot, the second slash is capable of hitting taller, grounded opponents. The move reaches quite far forward, making it useful for reaching opponents who are in the air. This move deals more damage than normal air slash (14% instead of 11.5%), and kills opponents slightly earlier. Unlike the other Air Slash customs, there is no lowering of Air Speed after the move is used. This, along with the lowered height from the ground after the second slash, makes it much safer to use as an attacking move, even if the move misses. However, the second slash can fail to connect after the first one while under most platforms. However, in that case, hold downwards while you use the second strike and you will fall very fast to the ground, an advanced technique called AAS cancelling. Due to the mostly 60° angle of the first strike of the move, it can be used to stage spike. The first strike is solely base knockback, so the stage spike has the unique propety of working the same regardless of the opponent's percent damage. It works best on light weights and/or people who have poor recoveries. Rage makes the stage spike better. This recovery move actually improves recovery compared to regular air slash when in all arts but Jump and Speed.

*For the best recovery with Advancing Air Slash, use while Shulk has a small amount of vertical distance between his feet and the ledge. Go lower to improve safety by hitting the opponent and snapping to the edge.*

(3): Mighty Air Slash
Intuition might tell you this move is better for recovery, but that is not really correct.That is only true if you are in Monado Jump. The reason: this move has higher vertical movement, but barely any horizontal movement. Due to the lack of horizontal movement, you must get closer to the edge while recovering, while meanwhile falling lower. The move has some plus sides. It does a lot of damage. It has an 80° knockback angle while the other two have 48° angles, so it kills earlier while on most of the stage. However, this means it kills relatively later while near the edges or off of the stage. Still, generally, it is a nice attack if you can manage to land it on the opponent. That can be hard, though, because the move has much less range than AAS/AS. Still, it could be used against opponents who are very close-range fighters. Lastly, due to a major cut in air speed following the use of the move, it is extremely unsafe if whiffed, for the opponent has a very easy time punishing you. One final thing to note about this special is for maximum recovery you should use the second slash as soon as possible after you use the first slash. Delaying mighty air slash is only good for when you are using the move to attack.

Data for recoveries (Higher the angle the better):

Form of recovery|Neutral fall angle|Monado Jump's angle|Decisive Jump's angle|Hyper Jump's angle|Monado Speed's angle|Decisive Speed's angle|Hyper Speed's angle
Just drifting|–49.6°| –42°| –42°|–43.5°|–40°|–37.8|–35°
Drift with an air jump|–35.9°| –18°| –16.7°|–15.4°|–25.4°|–23°|–23°
Drift then Air Slash|–34°| –19.3°| –16.7 |–15.4°|–19.3°|–19°|–14°
Drift then Advancing Air Slash|–29.9°| –23°| –21.8°|–20.6°|–19.3°|–18°|–16.7°
Drift then Mighty Air Slash| –34°|–24.2°| –15.4°|–12.7°|–20.6°|–18°|–14°
Drift, air jump, and Air Slash| –11.3°|+14°| +18°| +18°|+1.4°|+2.9°| +2.9°
Drift, air jump, and Advancing Air Slash|–5.7°| +9.9°| +12.7°|+12.7°| +1.4°|+1.4°| –1.4°
Drift, air jump, and Mighty Air Slash| –12.7°|+16.6°| +18°|+21.8°|0°| 0°| 0°

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Custom Vision (Down Special)

(1): Vision
A strong counter that starts on frame 6. The counter effect stays for a relatively long time for the first use, but gets shorter with each successive use.

(2): Dash vision
Shulk counters and dashes forward with his attack. The attack is faster and has a longer range, but is slightly weaker and has a lower window in which it works. However, it launches opponents at a lower angle, which is actually good for KOs. This is an excellent choice against projectile users due to the speed and range. The extra speed may also come into use in instances where the opponent can dodge before you hit them with your counter. This version of the counter is the strictest in your timing.

(3): Power vision
Shulk counters and delivers a powerful slash. Timing of the counter is much stricter if used consecutively. It is slower than normal vision, but deals a ton of damage and has huge knockback. Has slightly greater range than regular vision. The slowness makes it bad against projectiles or other fast attacks that allow for the counter to be dodged.

More information on their damages:

VISION
Vision is a counter which deals damage based on the damage you receive. Inputting a forward direction while countering an attack will execute a different counter attack.

Default Vision:
Standing Counter: 10% on the middle of the blade, 7% on the tip of the blade.
Forward Counter: 13%
Damage Multiplier: 1.3×

Vision 2 = Dash Vision:
Standing Counter: 8% on the middle of the blade, 5% on the tip of the blade.
Forward Counter: 11%
Damage Multiplier: 1.0×

Vision 3 = Power Vision:
Standing Counter: 17% on the middle of the blade, 14% on the tip of the blade.
Forward Counter: 20%
Damage Multiplier: 1.5×

More information on counter frames:

I tested Vision's properties using the database Chrono Penguin posted a few pages back for frame reference. Having a 3rd controller to pause and unpause helped greatly with synching the input for Shulk's vision with the attacks to test against.

-All three versions of Vision have their active frames start at frame 6 (same speed as Lucario's jab1), no matter how much they decayed. Faster jabs such as Shulk's jab1 (frame 5) beat out Vision before it can even counter.

-Vision and Dash Vision can always counter a move with a hitbox coming out on frame 12 (D3's and Shulk's ftilt), assuming that the inputs for both moves are registered on the same frame. Completely decayed Power Vision (takes two uses) loses out to said attacks and frame 11 (such as Falcon's dtilt) moves. Fully decayed Power Vision can still counter Shulk's dtilt (frame 10).

-Therefore, counter windows for completely decayed Vision and Dash Vision are 6-12 frames (could be 6-13, but the only frame 13 moves I found were smash attacks), while fully decayed Power Vision's is 6-10 frames.

-Fresh Vision and fresh Power Vision with Shulk standing right in front of Ike counters his fsmash (slightly above 31 frames due to position and likely human error since I can't just hold down the input like with other attacks). Dash Vision can never counter Ike's fsmash head on even when fresh, but a fresh one can "counter" it by standing on a Battle Field platform above him where the hitboxes of the attack come out.

-If fresh Shulk quickly spams out four Visions and then quickly inputs the fifth at the exact same time as Palutena inputs her dtilt (frame 14), the counter will fail. A few seconds later (guessing around 4-6 seconds), Shulk can successfully counter said attack.

-Fresh Shulk who used one Vision can't counter Ike's fsmash (standing in front) until 3 seconds have passed. Unexpectedly, two consecutive Visions from fresh Shulk change the waiting time to 9-10 seconds. For 3 Visions, it's 14-15 seconds. 4, it's 17-18 seconds.

-Fresh Shulk who wastes used one Power Vision can't counter Ike's fsmash (standing in front) until 18 seconds have passed. Two Power Visions and it becomes 19 seconds.

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Other information

Move Ranges which includes custom moves:

Maximum Horizontal Range​

Note: All of Shulk's moves are listed from farthest to shortest. I used a custom stage I created to help assist with this, & used the Crate item to better determine the results. Not even Wii Fit Trainer was the greatest example to use the first time for this.

Note: I only measured the range of Shulk's moves by the farthest they could reach aka the Beam aka the Sourspot in most cases (Exceptions like NAir are loved & appreciated, because NAir, you break the B & B "rule"<3. I also did not test move techniques like Jump Canceled Vision).

1. Back Slash Charge sliding hit-box as Shulk with any Art excluding all 3 Speed Arts
2. Back Slash Charge sliding hit-box as Speed Shulk / DSpeed Shulk / HSpeed Shulk
3. Dash Vision counterattack (This basically looks like a disjointed Tipper hit-box, but it's the sourspot)
4. Advancing Air Slash 2nd hit
5. Power Vision counterattack
6. Vision counterattack
7. Back Slash landing Tipper hit
8. Instant Dash Attack as Speed Shulk
9. Instant Dash attack as Vanilla Shulk / Jump Shulk / Buster Shulk / Smash Shulk
10. Instant Dash Attack as Shield Shulk
11. Back Slash Leap landing Tipper hit
12. Forwarded Dash Vision counterattack
13. Air Slash 2nd hit
14. FSmash 2nd hit without angling
15. Full Jab Combo (Rapidly tapping A)
16. FSmash 2nd hit angled downward & upward
17. BAir from behind
18. Forwarded Vision counterattack
19. Forwarded Power Vision counterattack
20. FThrow collateral 3% hit
21. Air Slash grounded 1st hit AND Advancing Air Slash grounded 1st hit
22. DSmash 3rd hit from the front (It's actually the 5th hit of DSmash)
23. DTilt
24. FSmash 1st hit angled upward
25. FAir
26. FSmash 1st hit without angling
27. FTilt
28. FSmash 1st hit angled downward
29. DSmash 2nd hit from the back (it's actually the 4th hit of DSmash)
30. DSmash 1st hit from the back (it's actually the 2nd hit of DSmash)
31. DSmash 1st hit from the front
32. DSmash 2nd hit from the front (it's actually the 3rd hit of DSmash)
33. Mighty Air Slash 2nd hit
34. Jab-1 > Jab-2
35. Ledge Attack from the ledge
36. NAir from the front
37. BThrow collateral 3% hit from behind
    
38. Mighty Air Slash grounded 1st hit
39. Jab-1
40. NAir from behind
41. UTilt
42. USmash Front Ground-Hitting knock-up
43. BAir front-facing hit
44. Standing Grab
45. USmash Back Ground-Hitting knock-up
46. DAir
47. UAir

Heads up. So you guys remember the MHR aka Maximum Horizontal Range test right? So here's a MVR of Shulk's attacks.

Maximum Vertical Range (Finished)​

Note: Instead of a numbers list going from the longest to shortest range, I'll rate a move's MVR by stars. 1★ means the 1st platform, so the more stars a move has beside it, the higher the MVR. I used a stage I created to help test the MVR along with using the Barrel item that I would set on top of a platform to designate as the "sandbag" to hit. Shulk for most of this experiment will be starting from the stage's floor while trying to hit the Barrel above on a platform, but I'll include a bonus MVR showing the moves Shulk can hit below him too.

Note: The Jump Art, Decisive Jump Art, & Hyper Jump Art all increase the vertical height therefore increasing the vertical hit-box range of Air Slash, Advancing Air Slash, & Mighty Air Slash. So don't be surprised to see Hyper Jump Shulk's Mighty Air Slash possessing the greatest MVR.

Note: When a move has the word "Floor" beside it, this indicates that the move can hit characters even crouching lower than 1 star aka the 1st platform. Characters like Mr. G&W, Jigglypuff, Kirby, & Wii Fit Trainer are all characters worthy of crouching lower than the 1st platform.

*Note: I'm restricting the MVR for Shulk's aerials by using Hyper Monado Arts, specifically Hyper Speed & Hyper Shield so that the jump height was reduced enough for an idea of their restricted MVR. I Short Hopped & inputted the aerial immediately after the jump. Otherwise, aerials should be free to have whatever MVR they desire because aerials can be inputted at whichever height you jump.

Jab1 = 1★ – 2★
Jab2 = 1★ – 3★
Jab3 = Floor – 4★
Dash Attack = Floor – 2★
FTilt = Floor – 2★ (Only a small portion of the attack hits the following characters crouching in the 2nd Note)
UTilt = Floor – 9★ (Not every character will be hit on the 9th platform)
DTilt = Floor – 1★
FSmash 1st hit no angling = Floor – 2★ (Although it can whiff vs the Noted crouching characters)
FSmash 1st hit angled down = Floor – 1★
FSmash 1st hit angled up = 1★ – 2★
FSmash 2nd hit no angling = 1★ – 2★
FSmash 2nd hit angled down = Floor – 1★
FSmash 2nd hit angled up = 1★ – 3★ (The 2nd hit's sourspot is why it's ★★★)
USmash 1st hit = Floor – 4★
USmash 2nd hit = Floor – 7★
DSmash (All 5 hits) = Floor – 1★
*SH NAir (Hyper Shield) = Floor – 7★
*SH FAir (Hyper Speed) = Floor – 8★ (The active hit-box of FAir will reach the 8th platform)
*SH BAir (Hyper Speed) = Floor – 4★
*SH UAir 1st hit (Hyper Speed) = 1★ – 6★
*SH UAir 2nd hit (Hyper Shield) = 1★ – 10★
*SH DAir 1st hit from the Floor (Hyper Speed) = Floor – 3★
*SH DAir 2nd hit from the 4th platform (Hyper Speed) = Floor – 4★
Back Slash = Floor – 5★
Back Slash Leap = Floor – 8★ (The overhead swing of BSL reaches the 8th platform)
Back Slash Charge = Floor – 5★ (The active hit-box of BSC from above Shulk reaches the 5th platform)
Air Slash 1st hit = Floor – 10★
Air Slash 1st hit (Jump) = Floor – 12★
Air Slash 1st hit (Decisive Jump) = Floor – 13★
Air Slash 1st hit (Hyper Jump) = Floor – 13★ (It's odd because Hyper Jump Shulk can land on the 14th platform)
Air Slash 2nd hit = 6★ – 13★
Air Slash 2nd hit (Jump) = 9★ – 16★
Air Slash 2nd hit (Decisive Jump) = 10★ – 17★
Air Slash 2nd hit (Hyper Jump) = 12★ – 18★
Advancing Air Slash 1st hit = Floor – 10★
Advancing Air Slash 1st hit (Jump) = Floor – 12★
Advancing Air Slash 1st hit (Decisive Jump) = Floor – 13★
Advancing Air Slash 1st hit (Hyper Jump) = Floor – 13★ (It's odd because Hyper Jump Shulk can land on the 14th platform)
Advancing Air Slash 2nd hit = 2★ – 8★ (You can hit the Barrel on the 1st platform if you delay the 2nd slash)
Advancing Air Slash 2nd hit (Jump) = 4★ – 11★ (You can hit the Barrel on the 3rd platform if you delay the 2nd slash)
Advancing Air Slash 2nd hit (Decisive Jump) = 6★ – 12★ (You can hit the Barrel on the 5th platform if you delay the 2nd slash)
Advancing Air Slash 2nd hit (Hyper Jump) = 8★ – 13★ (You can hit the Barrel on the 7th platform if you delay the 2nd slash)
Mighty Air Slash 1st hit = Floor – 10★ (MAS can hit crouched characters when both are on the Floor, but Shulk cannot hit when he's standing on the 1st platform)
Mighty Air Slash 1st hit (Jump) = Floor – 11★
Mighty Air Slash 1st hit (Decisive Jump) = Floor – 11★ (Yet DJump Art + MAS can land on the 16th platform)
Mighty Air Slash 1st hit (Hyper Jump) = Floor – 12★ (Yet the HJump Art + MAS can land on the 17th platform)
Mighty Air Slash 2nd hit = 9★ – 14★
Mighty Air Slash 2nd hit (Jump) = 12★ – 18★
Mighty Air Slash 2nd hit (Decisive Jump) = 13★ – 19★
Mighty Air Slash 2nd hit (Hyper Jump) = 15★ – 21★ (This is crazy height)
Grounded Vision = Floor – 3★
Grounded Forward Vision = Floor – 3★
Grounded Dash Vision = Floor – 3★
Grounded Forward Dash Vision = Floor – 3★
Grounded Power Vision = Floor – 3★
Grounded Forward Power Vision = Floor – 3★
FThrow = Floor – 3★
BThrow = Floor – 3★
UThrow = Floor – 6★ (Someone else would have to be very close to Shulk to be hit at Floor level & above)
DThrow = Floor – 1★ (Shulk grabbing & DThrowing someone on the 4th platform can hit a Barrel on the Floor)
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EDIT: Bonus Maximum Vertical Range​

The moves listed below are the only moves that Shulk can hit a crouching character with while they're on the Floor & Shulk is on a ★platform. These moves ALSO can hit an opponent hanging on the ledge per-say you want to ledgetrump & hit with any of these moves for when they regrab the ledge:

FSmash 2nd hit angled down -- from 1★
DSmash 5th hit -- from 1★ (Has to be fairly spaced away since it won't hit from up close underneath)
*SH NAir (Hyper Speed) -- from 1★ (You can reach from 2★ if you input the FAir upon landing with or without a Monado Art)
*SH FAir (Hyper Speed) -- from 2★ (You can reach from 3★ if you input the FAir upon landing with or without a Monado Art
*SH BAir (Hyper Speed) -- from 1★ (You can reach from 2★ if you input the BAir upon landing with or without a Monado Art)
*SH DAir 2nd hit (Hyper Speed) -- from 4★
Back Slash Leap -- from 1★ (Oddly enough, neither Back Slash nor Back Slash Charge can hit like Back Slash Leap can)
Air Slash 1st hit -- from 1★
Advancing Air Slash 1st hit -- from 1★
DThrow -- from 1★

Short hop/full hop air times

翔 (Monado Jump)
SH Air Time: 43 frames
FH Air Time: 68 frames
DJ Air Time: 70 frames

Jump Art Buffered Deactivation
SH Air Time: 57 frames
FH Air Time: 93 frames
DJ Air Time: 97 frames

D翔 (Decisive Jump)
SH Air Time: 41 frames
FH Air Time: 64 frames
DJ Air Time: 66 frames

H翔 (Hyper Jump)
SH Air Time: 39 frames
FH Air Time: 60 frames
DJ Air Time: 62 frames

Hyper Jump Art Buffered Deactivation
SH Air Time: 63 frames
FH Air Time: 104 frames
DJ Air Time: 107 frames

疾 (Monado Speed)
SH Air Time: 34 frames
FH Air Time: 51 frames
DJ Air Time: 53 frames

D疾 (Decisive Speed)
SH Air Time: 31 frames
FH Air Time: 46 frames
DJ Air Time: 48 frames

H疾 (Hyper Speed)
SH Air Time: 25 frames
FH Air Time: 37 frames
DJ Air Time: 39 frames

盾 (Monado Shield) & D盾 (Decisive Shield)
SH Air Time: 35 frames
FH Air Time: 52 frames
DJ Air Time: 54 frames

H盾 (Hyper Shield)
SH Air Time: 31 frames
FH Air Time: 46 frames
DJ Air Time: 48 frames

Here it is in a table format:

Art | SH Air Time | FH Air Time | DJ Air Time
翔 (Monado Jump) | 43 frames | 68 frames | 70 frames
D翔 (Decisive Jump) | 41 frames | 64 frames | 66 frames
H翔 (Hyper Jump) | 39 frames | 60 frames | 62 frames
疾 (Monado Speed) | 34 frames | 51 frames | 53 frames
D疾 (Decisive Speed) | 31 frames | 46 frames | 48 frames
H疾 (Hyper Speed) | 25 frames | 37 frames | 39 frames
盾 (Monado Shield) / D盾 (Decisive Shield) | 35 frames | 52 frames | 54 frames
H盾 (Hyper Shield) | 31 frames | 46 frames | 48 frames

Jump Art Buffered Deactivation | 57 frames | 93 frames | 97 frames
Hyper Jump Art Buffered Deactivation | 63 frames | 104 frames | 107 frames

So now. With these frame values, This gives us an idea in ways of how to maneuver & manage our air time if we ever commit ourselves to a Short or Full Hop. I just wanna note that Shulk's Hard & Soft Landing Lag states vary with these as well.

So now, I'll list what happens if you do the following:

翔 (Monado Jump)
Short Hop, no fastfall: Hard Landing
Full Hop, no fastfall: Hard Landing
Short Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
Full Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
Tl:DR Verdict: If you ever SH or FH, fastfalling never hurts to try. You take the hard landing no matter what, so fastfall to make your empty hops scary.

D翔 (Decisive Jump)
Short Hop, no fastfall: Hard Landing
Full Hop, no fastfall: Hard Landing
Short Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
Full Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
TL;DR Verdict: Like Monado Jump, Decisive Jump is almost the same but your fastfall is more fearsome along with having more airspeed too. So crossing up behind opponents including your aerial friction upon landing allows for safer aerials on shield.

H翔 (Hyper Jump)
Short Hop, no fastfall: Soft Landing
Full Hop, no fastfall: Hard Landing
Short Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
Full Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
TL;DR Verdict: Your empty Short Hop no fastfall in this art is fantastic. 2 frames of a difference sounds like, "okay whatever big deal", but it goes a long way I can tell you that much. Abuse your Short Hop approaches with the superior air & fall speed this art possesses. Full Hop into fastfall isn't bad either, since you jump so high & fall so quickly, you can tomahawk just as effectively.

疾 (Monado Speed)
Short Hop, no fastfall: Soft Landing
Full Hop, no fastfall: Hard Landing
Short Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
Full Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
TL;DR Verdict: SHAD is decently nice option. If you choose to do nothing then you take landing lag, but you could instead input a doublejump, aerial, or special move to override the airdodge's lag. Mostly though you'll want to go for empty hop mixups into an instant landing to running grab or pivot option from out of nowhere for a surprise factor.

D疾 (Decisive Speed)
Short Hop, no fastfall: Soft Landing
Full Hop, no fastfall: Hard Landing
Short Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
Full Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
TL;DR Verdict: SHAD isn't great because you take landing lag for it, but you drift super far distances in return. Empty hop drifting without fast fall is your best bet if you want to optimize your mixup-game to the fullest, but fastfall doesn't hurt ofc.

H疾 (Hyper Speed)
Short Hop, no fastfall: Soft Landing
Full Hop, no fastfall: Hard Landing
Short Hop, fastfall: Soft Landing
Full Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
TL;DR Verdict: Holy crap this is awesome. Your Short Hop approaches in this kind of way are very formidable. Sure, you don't go very high at all, but the ability to SH & fastfall and not take the Hard Landing for doing so is quite a small gift that can go a very long way. This art's mighty superior ground speed & air speed allows Shulk to glide across the stage however you see fit. The jump force being so low means that you're a very ground-heavy character during the 6 seconds but it's worth it.

盾 (Monado Shield) and D盾 (Decisive Shield)
Short Hop, no fastfall: Soft Landing
Full Hop, no fastfall: Hard Landing
Short Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
Full Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
TL;DR Verdict: The ability to SHAD & not take landing lag is kinda cool, but terrible air speed leaves you with a lot less joy from it per-say you wanted to do it in a Jump or Speed art. It's ight for a mixup. So stay grounded like usual, & go for empty hops into surprise dash attack or dash grab.

H盾 (Hyper Shield)
Short Hop, no fastfall: Soft Landing
Full Hop, no fastfall: Hard Landing
Short Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
Full Hop, fastfall: Hard Landing
TL;DR Verdict: This art has the exact same Air Times as Decisive Speed, so basically it's like you're Decisive Speed except you don't have the good things. So basically SHAD is very bad. Rely on empty hops & try not to Full Hop ever, unless you want to. Otherwise, stick with being the most defensive yellow turtle you can be.

Frame data changes (for movement):

Movement Frame Data
Dash to Neutral (Every Monado, Decisive, & Hyper art and Vanilla) | Total Frames= 33
Dash to Shield (Every Monado, Decisive, & Hyper art and Vanilla) | Total Frames= 10


Skid(this happens when you run, but decide to reset the joystick to neutral or tap down on the joystick)
Vanilla skid | Total Frames= 24
Jump art skid | Total Frames= 24
Speed art skid | Total Frames= 28
Shield art skid | Total Frames= 14
Decisive Speed art skid | Total Frames= 28
Decisive Shield art skid | Total Frames= 14
Hyper Speed art skid | Total Frames= 27
Hyper Shield art skid | Total Frames= 11


Dash Turn to Neutral(all this is, is me turning around & not doing anything else until the turn finishes)
Vanilla Dash Turn to Neutral | Total Frames= 35
Jump art Dash Turn to Neutral | Total Frames= 35
Speed art Dash Turn to Neutral | Total Frames= 39
Shield art Dash Turn to Neutral | Total Frames= 25
Decisive Speed art Dash Turn to Neutral | Total Frames= 39
Decisive Shield art Dash Turn to Neutral | Total Frames= 25
Hyper Speed art Dash Turn to Neutral | Total Frames= 39
Hyper Shield art Dash Turn to Neutral | Total Frames= 21


Dash Turn to Shield(all this is, is me turning around, holding the joystick the other way to start running in that direction, & then holding shield to see when you can act)
Vanilla Dash Turn to Shield | Total Frames= 34
Jump art Dash Turn to Shield | Total Frames= 34
Speed art Dash Turn to Shield | Total Frames= 35
Shield art Dash Turn to Shield | Total Frames= 35
Decisive Speed art Dash Turn to Shield | Total Frames= 35
Decisive Shield art Dash Turn to Shield | Total Frames= 35
Hyper Speed art Dash Turn to Shield | Total Frames= 35
Hyper Shield art Dash Turn to Shield | Total Frames= 34

A true Dash Turn(this is when you begin a dash turn & hold in that direction to have Shulk come to a halt asap. Then hold shield to see when you can act)
Vanilla | Total Frames=20
Jump art | Total Frames=20
Speed art | Total Frames=21
Shield art | Total Frames=21
Decisive Speed art | Total Frames=21
Decisive Shield art | Total Frames=21
Hyper Speed art | Total Frames=21
Hyper Shield art | Total Frames=20

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​

Tournament custom pre-sets :

Critical sets
1113
2113
3113
Preferential sets
1123
3123
3213
Niche
1122
3122

Optional (for EVO, really)
1213
2123

*New sets are being decided on!*

 

[Berserker.]

This will take a while. Hold up for a minute

 

[mario123007]

This will take a while. Hold up for a minute

Me too.

 

[Berserker.]

Alright, we're good. Welcome to the new discussion guys. @ erico9001 is the new OP owner because of my lack of knowledge with customs, so it was inappropriate for me to be the thread owner of the last one

So yeah. Keep feeling it

 

[Masonomace]

Alright, we're good. Welcome to the new discussion guys. @ erico9001 is the new OP owner because of my lack of knowledge with customs, so it was inappropriate for me to be the thread owner of the last one

So yeah. Keep feeling it

We (I) still love you. Keep feeling it to the max.

@ erico9001 I think we should add in all of the numbers for the Customs. Things like Frame Data, how long it takes for an Art to activate & their duration (I apparently failed to see there were already numbers there, but there's more numbers to add to the Arts in terms of the cooldowns & activation for Hyper Arts), stuff like that.

EDIT: Some educational numbers about the Arts:

Monado Arts
-Fresh Monado Art cycled to takes 0.75 of a second to activate
-Fresh Monado Art duration lasts 16 seconds
-A Monado Art on cooldown displayed by Shulk's character portrait is visible for 0.75 of a second & then vanishes
-Cooldown duration lasts 10 seconds

Decisive Monado Arts
-Fresh Decisive Art cycled to takes 1.5 seconds to activate
-Fresh Decisive Art duration lasts 20 seconds
-A Decisive Art on cooldown displayed by Shulk's character portrait is visible for 1.5 seconds & then vanishes
-Cooldown duration lasts 5 seconds

Hyper Monado Arts
-Fresh Hyper Art cycled to takes 0.75 of a second to activate
-Fresh Hyper Art duration lasts 6 seconds
-A Hyper Art on cooldown displayed by Shulk's character portrait is visible for 0.75 of a second & then vanishes
-Cooldown duration lasts 15 seconds

 

[mario123007]

We (I) still love you. Keep feeling it to the max.

@ erico9001 I think we should add in all of the numbers for the Customs. Things like Frame Data, how long it takes for an Art to activate & their duration (I apparently failed to see there were already numbers there, but there's more numbers to add to the Arts in terms of the cooldowns & activation for Hyper Arts), stuff like that.

EDIT: Some educational numbers about the Arts:

Monado Arts
-Fresh Monado Art cycled to takes 0.75 of a second to activate
-Fresh Monado Art duration lasts 16 seconds
-A Monado Art on cooldown displayed by Shulk's character portrait is visible for 0.75 of a second & then vanishes
-Cooldown duration lasts 10 seconds

Decisive Monado Arts
-Fresh Decisive Art cycled to takes 1.5 seconds to activate
-Fresh Decisive Art duration lasts 20 seconds
-A Decisive Art on cooldown displayed by Shulk's character portrait is visible for 1.5 seconds & then vanishes
-Cooldown duration lasts 5 seconds

Hyper Monado Arts
-Fresh Hyper Art cycled to takes 0.75 of a second to activate
-Fresh Hyper Art duration lasts 6 seconds
-A Hyper Art on cooldown displayed by Shulk's character portrait is visible for 0.75 of a second & then vanishes
-Cooldown duration lasts 15 seconds

Standard Monado arts works just fine for me. I had once tried DMA, but alway regret of using an art. I had never use HMA, maybe never will.
And I have also heard a technique called Monado Art Landing Lag cancel, still trying to master it. Because SMA you can't change arts when activated, this techique is quite rare to use in DMA, while HMA last short, this technique really useful with this custom move.

 

[Masonomace]

Standard Monado arts works just fine for me. I had once tried DMA, but alway regret of using an art. I had never use HMA, maybe never will.
And I have also heard a technique called Monado Art Landing Lag cancel, still trying to master it. Because SMA you can't change arts when activated, this techique is quite rare to use in DMA, while HMA last short, this technique really useful with this custom move.

Up to you. I won't try to change your mind about the Custom Arts, but they can be oodles of fun once you get a feel of them & are aware of their drawbacks. As for the MALLC, you just base the amount of times you can MALLC by not only your mastery of the technique, but also for the opportunity you may create that goes in ties with which kind of Arts you use. What do I mean? I mean that because Decisive Arts cannot be deactivated, you simply MALLC every 21.5 seconds that you can since they take longer to activate & last longer. In this case, the Monado Arts & Hyper Arts both take 0.75 of a second to activate thus the MALLC timing for you would be unchanged, if you were to use the Hyper Arts. However, Hyper Arts only lasting for 6 seconds promotes the idea to utilize MALLC just as much if not more not just because of their shorter duration, but also to capitalize that 6 second moment with a much much stronger Art. You MALLC a B-air? Well now that Hyper Jump or Hyper Speed Art you just cycled to & activated can reach that knockback DI angle that neither a Jump nor Speed Art could reach.

 

[mario123007]

Up to you. I won't try to change your mind about the Custom Arts, but they can be oodles of fun once you get a feel of them & are aware of their drawbacks. As for the MALLC, you just base the amount of times you can MALLC by not only your mastery of the technique, but also for the opportunity you may create that goes in ties with which kind of Arts you use. What do I mean? I mean that because Decisive Arts cannot be deactivated, you simply MALLC every 21.5 seconds that you can since they take longer to activate & last longer. In this case, the Monado Arts & Hyper Arts both take 0.75 of a second to activate thus the MALLC timing for you would be unchanged, if you were to use the Hyper Arts. However, Hyper Arts only lasting for 6 seconds promotes the idea to utilize MALLC just as much if not more not just because of their shorter duration, but also to capitalize that 6 second moment with a much much stronger Art. You MALLC a B-air? Well now that Hyper Jump or Hyper Speed Art you just cycled to & activated can reach that knockback DI angle that neither a Jump nor Speed Art could reach.

I see, SMA suits for me anyway.
I know that MALLC, timing is very crutial, I often can't get the time right, ir even worse, use the wrong Monado.
MALLC is because whenever Shulk activates a Monado he will always do a pose, so when you activate the art right before Shulk lands on the ground, there won't be any lag and you can quickly do a move.
I really hope and praying that they won't remove MALLC in the next patch. By the way, were there any landing lag cancel techniques being removed on the last patch?

 

[erico9001]

We (I) still love you. Keep feeling it to the max.

@ erico9001 I think we should add in all of the numbers for the Customs. Things like Frame Data, how long it takes for an Art to activate & their duration (I apparently failed to see there were already numbers there, but there's more numbers to add to the Arts in terms of the cooldowns & activation for Hyper Arts), stuff like that.

EDIT: Some educational numbers about the Arts:

Monado Arts
-Fresh Monado Art cycled to takes 0.75 of a second to activate
-Fresh Monado Art duration lasts 16 seconds
-A Monado Art on cooldown displayed by Shulk's character portrait is visible for 0.75 of a second & then vanishes
-Cooldown duration lasts 10 seconds

Decisive Monado Arts
-Fresh Decisive Art cycled to takes 1.5 seconds to activate
-Fresh Decisive Art duration lasts 20 seconds
-A Decisive Art on cooldown displayed by Shulk's character portrait is visible for 1.5 seconds & then vanishes
-Cooldown duration lasts 5 seconds

Hyper Monado Arts
-Fresh Hyper Art cycled to takes 0.75 of a second to activate
-Fresh Hyper Art duration lasts 6 seconds
-A Hyper Art on cooldown displayed by Shulk's character portrait is visible for 0.75 of a second & then vanishes
-Cooldown duration lasts 15 seconds

Thanks for getting that information for me! I am planning to go more in depth with describing each custom move. I also want to go in depth with describing the use of each set that we have.

Also, I talked with Amazing Ampharos about sets, and he said that the custom moveset project is not going to be updated until Fall (for good reasons). I say we can still discuss sets in here, and then we can have a "non-standard sets" section in the OP where they can be listed. If needed, players can import them at their tournaments into the extra two slots that are available. When Fall comes, we will have the opportunity to decide if any of the non-standard sets should replace standard sets. Like the standard sets, I would want to go in depth with describing each one of the non-standard sets.

 

[Masonomace]

I wonder if this is news to anyone because the frame data for Shulk's BSC has the numbers for the Super Armor, but, I just tested Back Slash Charge's Super Armor because I was curious of when the Super Armor begins (I didn't check it before. My bad). So I went in Training Mode & set it to 1/4x speed (Hold ), then I held down the inputs for Shulk's Back Slash Charge & Little Mac's Jab-1 simultaneously & pressed . Upon testing BSC's Super Armor by using Little Mac's Jab-1 which comes out on Frame 1, Back Slash Charge's Super Armor starts on Frame 1. Before I checked the frame data for it, I didn't know that BSC's Super Armor ended on frame 31 which is right before the hit-box begins but yeah, I should have checked the frame data. So yeah, Frame 1 - 31 is not too bad of a Super Armor frame window.

EDIT: So anyone remember that time I said Dash Vision was our longest reaching move in Shulk's entire move-set? Well. . . .it isn't. That title goes to Back Slash Charge due to the landing hit-box that slides across the floor, but that hit-box's knockback is so petty, & Dash Vision Slide's sourspot is so magical even if it the sourspot requiring to hit doesn't reach as far as Back Slash Charge.

 

[Peppa]

Before reading the thread, I was always iffy about Shulk's customs. I always run 1113 of course, sometimes (pre getting the EVO custom sets on my Wii U set up last tourney) run 1313, because I never touch backslash, but I don't mind have the armor on it if you're really struggling to get back on stage and they over commit.
But it never really hit me how huge MALLC and Hyper arts will probably go hand in hand together. The constant mix ups from hyper with the safe landings will probably blend together extremely nicely for Shulk in the future meta-game, granted customs go well and people use them. I have yet to like Decisive Arts at all, since you are so committed to it. I guess it could be niche versus campy styles that try to time out your monados and you REALLY need to find a way in but can't in time, but meh.

 

[erico9001]

Before reading the thread, I was always iffy about Shulk's customs. I always run 1113 of course, sometimes (pre getting the EVO custom sets on my Wii U set up last tourney) run 1313, because I never touch backslash, but I don't mind have the armor on it if you're really struggling to get back on stage and they over commit.
But it never really hit me how huge MALLC and Hyper arts will probably go hand in hand together. The constant mix ups from hyper with the safe landings will probably blend together extremely nicely for Shulk in the future meta-game, granted customs go well and people use them. I have yet to like Decisive Arts at all, since you are so committed to it. I guess it could be niche versus campy styles that try to time out your monados and you REALLY need to find a way in but can't in time, but meh.

I was very iffy about Shulk's custom moves too, and for a pretty long time. I held some misjudgements that I'm happy to share.

1) I thought that decisive monado arts are bad, because they can't be deactivated. I thought the sole purpose of them was to have a longer time with the arts, so was just good for Smash Run, and that was it. I did not even know they buffed Shulk more than regular arts, and it was only like a week or two ago that I realized just the extent to which they buff.
2) I thought hyper arts were just a gimmick
3) I thought Advancing Air Slash had no use due to my judgement of it being a "worse" recovery, with almost no addition to damage or knockback
4) I thought Mighty Air Slash was the best recovery option, but I did not like its worsened range.
5) I thought back slash leap would be useless, as my only reason for using back slash at the time was to give a third jump, if you will, against opponents doing things like charging Link's bow and stuff like that. Also, I figured back slash leap would have more start-up time, and I noticed the larger amount of end-lag.
6) I did think Back Slash Charge would have some use because of its invincibility... for projectile opponents pretty much.
7) I thought power vision was good, but did not even like it at first. I was pretty finicky.
8) Dash vision I was like 'okay,' and didn't even place thought into it.

Eventually, though, I wanted to try them out legitimately. As I often do, I even went farther to discover completely new things. My revised opinions:

1) Decisive monado arts have use. Not only are they for extra time, they are also for the added benefits of each art. Buffs are halfway between regular arts and hyper arts, without farther debuffs. That is useful. What you do to accommodate for the lack of deactivating is thinking into the future (I can see the future!). Should you really be activating Decisive Buster when your opponent is at 75% damage? Well... usually not. But if you apply the art at the correct time, you will have benefited a lot from being in decisive. If you are using decisive arts perfectly, you will not be happy when your art times out, but rather disappointed or indifferent about it. Also, don't forget about decisive shield + advancing air slash!
2) Hyper arts are something I have not taken a liking to, but I have experiences how scary they can be.
3) After extensive testing, I have found that Advancing Air Slash has better recovery than normal air slash under circumstances. If you are in no art, Monado Buster, or Monado Smash, there is an okay boost to recovery. If you are in Monado Shield, Advancing Air Slash is wondrously better at recovering. Monado Speed is almost the same, with a very slight edge to regular Air Slash. Advancing Air Slash is somewhat worse than regular Air Slash while in monado Jump, but it is still good at doing so. AAS is also wonderful as an offensive move (safety primarily)... and has come to be my favorite up B.
4) Mighty Air Slash has worse recovery than I expected. You will not be able to recover from the same percents as the other two arts, unless in Monado Jump, where it slightly edges out over normal air slash. The move has some merits, but it is my least favorite up B.
5) I have learned of uses of back slash leap, and found myself surprised that it has a quicker start-up time.
6) My opinion of back slash charge has actually worsened because of how unsafe on hit it is. Still, I think it has more uses than people give it credit for.
7) I prefer power vision over normal vision. I do not counter much, and the lesser activation time when used successively does not affect me.
8) I like dash vision in match-ups against long-range zoners.

I really encourage you to continue trying out Shulk's custom moves! You will probably find an improvement to your Shulk... kind of like leveling up Shulk's arts

 

[Berserker.]

Just clarifying but the customs thread has been unstickied since it can be accessed easily via thread directory. Carry on with the discussion

 

[Nerdicon]

I feel like I'm the only one running 1333...
I feel normal MA are necessary, Decisive MA can't be cancelled and Hyper MA are too short. The basic arts are just better in my (and seemingly everyone else's) opinion.

Back Slash to me has two uses, combo out of back throw and for mix-ups. Back Slash Charge has underwhelming power, but the armor combined with the distance makes it a decent mix-up tool. It also covers a large amount of space, perfect for punishing projectiles. With Back Slash Charge buster back throw-->back slash becomes a decent mid to high percent combo.

Mighty Air Slash is pretty overlooked in my eyes, it goes higher than the normal AS and has decent kill potential. Air Slash only has to do two things anyway, get me to the ledge and punish OoS. Mighty Air Slash with Smash killed at 98% on Final Destination, and it can kill anywhere due to the vertical knockback. It's still not a fantastic kill option due to the massive vulnerability you have after using it, but it's a great OoS option

Power Vision needs no explanation.

This is a thread for discussing custom sets right, I hope this doesn't get taken down due to lack of frame data or something.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

^^ I think most people prefer Air Slash over Mighty AS for punishing out of shield since the default has more range. I do agree with the kill potential though and I'm thinking it might possibly be good for OOS in MU's where the other character has very little range and will have to be close to you anyway, making it more likely to be able to punish with MAS

 

[erico9001]

Indeed, it would be good OOS against character with short range. It would be even better on stages with low ceilings like Halberd.

 

[Nerdicon]

Indeed, it would be good OOS against character with short range. It would be even better on stages with low ceilings like Halberd.

That's what I was thinking. I haven't tested it yet but does back throw---->back slash leap work if the opponent misses their tech?

 

[Masonomace]

The odds of Back Throw > Back Slash Leap would seem to work but honestly the player that's aware of the B-Throw > BS "combo" will be holding their control stick away from us during the B-Throw to be launched as far away from us at a lower angle & be ready to tech either in place or tech roll towards / away. At that point, any Back Slash custom or not becomes a mix-up, that is unless they miss their tech.

Mighty Air Slash is still a reliable Vertical option, but the horizontal aspect of recovering with Mighty Air Slash is almost non-existent & leaves you far more open because lack of range to protect you from being edge-guarded. Mighty Air Slash is only safe when recovering from very low. Never try to carelessly use the 2nd hit of MAS to hit someone near the ledge especially when they either:

1. Use their counterattack which will be painful for either the 1st or 2nd hit of MAS
2. Be shielding since you go straight up after hitting a shield with the 2nd hit. Very punishable
3. Zoning the ledge due to MAS's lack of range

Mighty Air Slash is pretty good with Decisive Speed, but overall I would say that Hyper Monado Arts & MAS would be a good combination. Regular Monado Arts does well with MAS as well.

 

[Zethoro]

I know this isn't the place for introductions, so I'll make this brief.
Hey there! I'm Zethoro. I'm a Kirby main, and I've used Shullk as a pocket since launch. I'm not the best player, but if there's one thing I pride myself on it's analysis, so I thought I'd give a bit of my opinion since Shulk's customs are among my favorites due to how much they change his playstyle.

Neutral Specials
(All of these are solid choices, and are the most impportant move in determining Shulk's playstyle and what MArts he'll be using.)

Regular - We all know this one. It makes Shuk the character it is. How does it stack up to the custom MArts though? Some disadvantages are that it has weaker buffs than the other two MArts, but to make up for this it has more duration than Extreme, a shorter recharge than Extreme, and unlike Decisive, can change to other MArts at will. This makes it incredibly useful for those seeking a more versatile Shulk.

Decisive - This is my MArt custom of choice, though I use them all from time to time. The main advantages of it are the increased time and strength at the cost of "you can't change". On the downside, this makes using Smash, Shield, and to a lesser extent Buster, very dangerous. However, this makes Speed and Jump far better, making Shulk consistently very speedy and a much bigger threat. Because of this, I personally think it's his best Neutral overall, but the others have their definitive uses. The slow startup on the MArt also helps prevent blunders, but also means 90 frames of being unable to use Air Slash if you, say, switch to Jump offstage. It's very useful for someone who wants to easily apply pressure due to the incredible viability of Jump and Speed in this custom MArt. It does haev more trouble killing without edgeguards and Wal of Pain tactics, however.

Extreme - Boy, the name doesn't lie. These throw balance to the wind and make Shuk go full-on ADRENALINE JUNKIE DEATH TIME for a whopping 6 seconds, with a nasty 15 second cooldown. The buffs are much stronger, but the debuffs are also signifantly stronger. Thiis Shullk is the king of comebacks. Jump and Speed, while useful, don't see as much use here; this mode is more about Buster and Smash. A proficient Shulk can bring an opponent to kill % in the mere 6 seconds of Buster, and can kill at ludicrous percents (even under 100% with Down Throw!) with some of his fastest attacks. This Shulk can go from a stock behind to winning in almost no time at all.
Also it's hilarious how with defensive equipment and Extreme Shield Shulk barely flinches from a Bob-Omb to the face at low %s.

This is a toss up. Use any of them, you can't go wrong, though Extreme is trickier to learn how to properly use in my opinion.

Side Specials
(All of these are solid, though this move is probably his least useful special.)

Regular - A slow move with some massive payoff in Smash or Buster. Can string out of throws or punish really slow moves. You won't use it much, but it's solid. The slide can be awful though.

Leap - slightly faster than Regular with no slide and similar damage. I reccommend using this over the regular, though the regular does have its niche uses.

Charge - My Special of choice. It's weaker than the others (it deals pitiful damage outside of a back-hit), but it's useful for recovery. If you see someone committing to an edgeguard and you're recovering high, you can Super Armor through their attack and slide back on the stage safely, switching the positions completely,

In my opinion, if you're loking for an offensive option, use Leap, and if you're not, use charge for its recovery capabilities.


Up Specials
(All of these are solid, but I think one is significantly worse, like with normal Back Slash.)

Regular - The most versatile of the bunch. Great OoS option, solid offstage kill move, solid recovery...you can't go wrong with this one..

Advancing - I feel that this is the worst of the three. It has greater horizontal recovery at the cost of vertical recovery. It's an inferior OoS option, and just plain awkward. However, it is a solid offensive option, and has its uses.

Mighty - My personal favorite. It sacrifices horizontal mobility and a bit of offensive range for incredible power. This thing kills very early, and as thus I find it to be a more rewarding OoS option. It actually gets more vertical recovery than the others, too, so it works well in tandem with Jump or Speed Arts.

Regular is a better OoS option, but Mighty is a more rewarding OoS. Use whichever one you want, I personally think they're all good.

Down Specials
(I feel there's an obvious choice here.)

Regular - Standard counter. Solid, but outclassed.

Dash - I don't even understand the purpose of this one. It's decent against zoners, a lt like LM's Dash Counter, but unlike LM, Shulk has another Counter custom that is amazing.

Power - Easily the best. If you don't spam it (which you shouldn't be spamming a counter) its counter window is identical to the others, and makes even the weakest of attacks deadly. In Smash this will kill at ludicrous %s (I'm talking 10% kinds of ludicrous), and predicting a strong move will kill before 50% as well. By 100%, pretty much any move will kill.


Overall, I really like how all of Shullk's specials (except for down, correct me if I'm wrong) are usable. It makes for a lot of variety as opposed to most characters I use who unfortunately have unanimously "the best" specials or no goood customs.

 

[Masonomace]

Advancing - It's an inferior OoS option

May I ask that you explain your reasoning as to why you feel AAS is an inferior OoS option? I'm interested of your analysis about this.

Dash - I don't even understand the purpose of this one. It's decent against zoners, a lt like LM's Dash Counter, but unlike LM, Shulk has another Counter custom that is amazing.

I'm not sure if someone has the complete full grasp of this Custom, but I'll give some insight about it.

When just observing this move, you'll notice that Dash Vision's slowing distortion effect is larger than Vision & Power VIsion. With this in mind, you would use the larger slow zone to catch someone from a farther distance, but it's not that much of a difference. You'll also notice that when using this Custom Vision move at low percentage, you have frame advantage by creating a tech chase because this counterattack induces enough hit-stun at a low angle to force the tumble state on most of the cast, so have at it with the ground reads. Additionally about the low angle, you can Dash Vision counter any hit-box that's recovering to the ledge & launch them at such an unfavorable DI angle that it potentially gimps them at low percentage especially if that character has a mediocre / predictable recovery pattern. And like the LM Dash Counter, Dash Vision too can be used as an edge-guard breaking tool while at the same time helps you recover. DV excels at this the most out of the 3 Visions so why not utilize it for that?

Also, despite that it deals the weakest damage of the 3 Visions, DV has the greatest reach both regularly inputted & Forwarded over the other Visions. If you wanted to punish a move from mid to mid-long range, DV would be able to punish it since it's the fastest Vision counter & it would launch them in a way that you gain complete stage control & you create an edge-guard opportunity if not KO'ing them.

 

[erico9001]

The odds of Back Throw > Back Slash Leap would seem to work but honestly the player that's aware of the B-Throw > BS "combo" will be holding their control stick away from us during the B-Throw to be launched as far away from us at a lower angle & be ready to tech either in place or tech roll towards / away. At that point, any Back Slash custom or not becomes a mix-up, that is unless they miss their tech.

Mighty Air Slash is still a reliable Vertical option, but the horizontal aspect of recovering with Mighty Air Slash is almost non-existent & leaves you far more open because lack of range to protect you from being edge-guarded. Mighty Air Slash is only safe when recovering from very low. Never try to carelessly use the 2nd hit of MAS to hit someone near the ledge especially when they either:

1. Use their counterattack which will be painful for either the 1st or 2nd hit of MAS
2. Be shielding since you go straight up after hitting a shield with the 2nd hit. Very punishable
3. Zoning the ledge due to MAS's lack of range

Mighty Air Slash is pretty good with Decisive Speed, but overall I would say that Hyper Monado Arts & MAS would be a good combination. Regular Monado Arts does well with MAS as well.

In Decisive Speed, Mighty Air Slash isn't so great for recovery after an opponent knocks you off-stage (unless that happens to be followed with a meteor smash). However, it is nice in conjunction with Decisive Speed, because it lets you do more fooling off-stage. This is the advantage to more vertical recoveries. For instance, while I was vs you, you decided to do a counter from far off-stage. I was sure that was going to be your death, but to my surprise, it wasn't! On the other hand, you can barely counter while off-stage if in Advancing Air Slash.

-

I know this isn't the place for introductions, so I'll make this brief.
Hey there! I'm Zethoro. I'm a Kirby main, and I've used Shullk as a pocket since launch. I'm not the best player, but if there's one thing I pride myself on it's analysis, so I thought I'd give a bit of my opinion since Shulk's customs are among my favorites due to how much they change his playstyle.

Hi! You have a pretty accurate analysis of the customs. There are some things I'm going to pick apart, though.

Neutral Specials
(All of these are solid choices, and are the most impportant move in determining Shulk's playstyle and what MArts he'll be using.)

Regular - We all know this one. It makes Shuk the character it is. How does it stack up to the custom MArts though? Some disadvantages are that it has weaker buffs than the other two MArts, but to make up for this it has more duration than Extreme, a shorter recharge than Extreme, and unlike Decisive, can change to other MArts at will. This makes it incredibly useful for those seeking a more versatile Shulk.

Decisive - This is my MArt custom of choice, though I use them all from time to time. The main advantages of it are the increased time and strength at the cost of "you can't change". On the downside, this makes using Smash, Shield, and to a lesser extent Buster, very dangerous.

While Smash is more dangerous to use, Shield and Buster are not. Shield has enough strength now to be excellent at low percents, but it is hard to bring off-stage until much higher percents than normal Shield. Once you do get to those high percents, it is dangerous unless you have advancing Air Slash, which helps shield shulk recover immensely. Buster is not dangerous to use as long as you don't activate it when it would bring the opponent to kill percents.

However, this makes Speed and Jump far better, making Shulk consistently very speedy and a much bigger threat. Because of this, I personally think it's his best Neutral overall, but the others have their definitive uses. The slow startup on the MArt also helps prevent blunders, but also means 90 frames of being unable to use Air Slash if you, say, switch to Jump offstage. It's very useful for someone who wants to easily apply pressure due to the incredible viability of Jump and Speed in this custom MArt. It does haev more trouble killing without edgeguards and Wal of Pain tactics, however.

Extreme - Boy, the name doesn't lie. These throw balance to the wind and make Shuk go full-on ADRENALINE JUNKIE DEATH TIME for a whopping 6 seconds, with a nasty 15 second cooldown. The buffs are much stronger, but the debuffs are also signifantly stronger. Thiis Shullk is the king of comebacks. Jump and Speed, while useful, don't see as much use here; this mode is more about Buster and Smash. A proficient Shulk can bring an opponent to kill % in the mere 6 seconds of Buster, and can kill at ludicrous percents (even under 100% with Down Throw!) with some of his fastest attacks. This Shulk can go from a stock behind to winning in almost no time at all.
Also it's hilarious how with defensive equipment and Extreme Shield Shulk barely flinches from a Bob-Omb to the face at low %s.

This is a toss up. Use any of them, you can't go wrong, though Extreme is trickier to learn how to properly use in my opinion.

I agree about Hyper Arts being hard to learn. Managing only 6 seconds of time with 15 seconds of cooldown is difficult.

Side Specials
(All of these are solid, though this move is probably his least useful special.)

Regular - A slow move with some massive payoff in Smash or Buster. Can string out of throws or punish really slow moves. You won't use it much, but it's solid. The slide can be awful though.

Leap - slightly faster than Regular with no slide and similar damage. I reccommend using this over the regular, though the regular does have its niche uses.

Charge - My Special of choice. It's weaker than the others (it deals pitiful damage outside of a back-hit), but it's useful for recovery. If you see someone committing to an edgeguard and you're recovering high, you can Super Armor through their attack and slide back on the stage safely, switching the positions completely,

In my opinion, if you're loking for an offensive option, use Leap, and if you're not, use charge for its recovery capabilities.


Up Specials
(All of these are solid, but I think one is significantly worse, like with normal Back Slash.)

Regular - The most versatile of the bunch. Great OoS option, solid offstage kill move, solid recovery...you can't go wrong with this one..

Advancing - I feel that this is the worst of the three. It has greater horizontal recovery at the cost of vertical recovery. It's an inferior OoS option, and just plain awkward. However, it is a solid offensive option, and has its uses.

It seems to me you have not tried out AAS much. I suggest read what I have to say about it in the op :D. Like Mace, I'm also confused what you mean about using it OOS.

That's all I have to say. Thanks!

 

[Zethoro]

It seems to me you have not tried out AAS much. I suggest read what I have to say about it in the op :D. Like Mace, I'm also confused what you mean about using it OOS.

That's all I have to say. Thanks!

May I ask that you explain your reasoning as to why you feel AAS is an inferior OoS option? I'm interested of your analysis about this.

I'm not sure if someone has the complete full grasp of this Custom, but I'll give some insight about it.

When just observing this move, you'll notice that Dash Vision's slowing distortion effect is larger than Vision & Power VIsion. With this in mind, you would use the larger slow zone to catch someone from a farther distance, but it's not that much of a difference. You'll also notice that when using this Custom Vision move at low percentage, you have frame advantage by creating a tech chase because this counterattack induces enough hit-stun at a low angle to force the tumble state on most of the cast, so have at it with the ground reads. Additionally about the low angle, you can Dash Vision counter any hit-box that's recovering to the ledge & launch them at such an unfavorable DI angle that it potentially gimps them at low percentage especially if that character has a mediocre / predictable recovery pattern. And like the LM Dash Counter, Dash Vision too can be used as an edge-guard breaking tool while at the same time helps you recover. DV excels at this the most out of the 3 Visions so why not utilize it for that?

Also, despite that it deals the weakest damage of the 3 Visions, DV has the greatest reach both regularly inputted & Forwarded over the other Visions. If you wanted to punish a move from mid to mid-long range, DV would be able to punish it since it's the fastest Vision counter & it would launch them in a way that you gain complete stage control & you create an edge-guard opportunity if not KO'ing them.

That's mostly what I figured, it has a lot of similar uses to LM's Dash Counter, though I didn't think about the tech chase opportunities.

Also, you're right, I haven't used AAS very much. It could just be my fault, but I feel like the second hit doesn't connect as easily. I've never had any trouble connecting both hits with MAS or AS, but with AAS it seems to mess up sometimes. Am I just doing it wrong, I guess? Maybe I'm waiting too long, or not long enough?

 

[Masonomace]

In Decisive Speed, Mighty Air Slash isn't so great for recovery after an opponent knocks you off-stage (unless that happens to be followed with a meteor smash). However, it is nice in conjunction with Decisive Speed, because it lets you do more fooling off-stage. This is the advantage to more vertical recoveries. For instance, while I was vs you, you decided to do a counter from far off-stage. I was sure that was going to be your death, but to my surprise, it wasn't! On the other hand, you can barely counter while off-stage if in Advancing Air Slash.

I would concur. Alleviating the launch taken from an opponent would have to involve the Shulk DI'ing high & possibly using Vision to slow down momentum & then hold toward the stage's direction. After using any of the Visions airborne, you don't have to airdodge input anything after Vision's stall-then-fall effect wears off like we normally would if we're canceling or activating to Jump or Speed & airdodge the activation. So unless Shulk inputted the Vision / DV / PV early while being high, I too wouldn't favor using it with having AAS either. Then again, conserving our doublejump & attempting to use any of the Visions especially DV for recovering lazy / outplaying the moment does feel good.

Also, you're right, I haven't used AAS very much. It could just be my fault, but I feel like the second hit doesn't connect as easily. I've never had any trouble connecting both hits with MAS or AS, but with AAS it seems to mess up sometimes. Am I just doing it wrong, I guess? Maybe I'm waiting too long, or not long enough?

The general thing about AAS is that this Air Slash helps make it easy mode so-to-speak. If we're talking about a usual OoS situation, where the opponent is on the ground in front of or behind you, inputting both hits of AAS quickly together will connect. The only times I see AAS not working is if you're trying to scoop the opponent who's airborne with the rising 1st hit of AAS & try hitting with the 2nd hit but cannot because they were too high & you dip down. Other than that, AAS is also not as successful when ledge-trumping the opponent with the 1st hit of AAS because the knockback angle for most of the characters is too low for the 2nd hit to connect. A Jump Art would help scoop up opponents who are airborne in the first place since any Jump Art augments the vertical height of any Air Slash, but yeah hopefully this helped.

Oh & one more thing, crouching used against you can reduce the knockback angle height, which applies to all of your Air Slashes. If someone were to know that they could crouch against your AAS, then they'd be able to avoid it. Fortunately, we could delay the 2nd hit of AAS so that we can still hit them, or we just use AAS at higher pecents.

 

[FreedomTP]

Sorry, but I just noticed that there's no Mighty Air Slash in any of the standard sets. Is there a reason for this? After all, MAS can be useful if you enjoy going deep off-stage.

 

[Berserker.]

Sorry, but I just noticed that there's no Mighty Air Slash in any of the standard sets. Is there a reason for this? After all, MAS can be useful if you enjoy going deep off-stage.

I was honestly at a loss with the lack of Mighty Air slash also.

I mean, I'm not an advocate for customs but.... gimped range aside, it has nice damage output and vertical KO power.

 

[Scieric]

Sorry, but I just noticed that there's no Mighty Air Slash in any of the standard sets. Is there a reason for this? After all, MAS can be useful if you enjoy going deep off-stage.

Because it sucks. Am I the only one that is a fan of Back Slash Leap?

 

[Maple42]

Because it sucks.

If you're going to criticize something, please do it constructively.
Mighty Air Slash is not standard because it's fairly hard to hit (i.e. it can longer be used as an OoS option), and generally doesn't even kill at much earlier percentages than the regular, unless you're in Smash, in which case it's extremely telegraphed. It's situational, and the sacrifice of its versatility for the sliim chance for an early kill is not worth it.

 

[Scieric]

If you're going to criticize something, please do it constructively.
Mighty Air Slash is not standard because it's fairly hard to hit (i.e. it can longer be used as an OoS option), and generally doesn't even kill at much earlier percentages than the regular, unless you're in Smash, in which case it's extremely telegraphed. It's situational, and the sacrifice of its versatility for the sliim chance for an early kill is not worth it.

Sure. Do the explanations for me. Why not? Easier for me. And I perfectly agree with what you are saying and I switched from a 1233 set to a 1213 set. I just think it's better. Why do so many people like Back Slash Charge? It's so risky and the front hit is pitiful it has absolutely no use whatsoever in singles, so why is it in half the sets in the standardized custom moveset project? I would strongly recommend replacing 1313 with 1213. It's just better overall. And in our list, all of the critical sets are just all the MArt variants with Power Vision? Really? Spice it up a little! The other moves have some uses too. Although I do totally agree with Power Vision being in all of them. It just outclasses the other 2 in almost every way.

 

[Masonomace]

Sorry, but I just noticed that there's no Mighty Air Slash in any of the standard sets. Is there a reason for this? After all, MAS can be useful if you enjoy going deep off-stage.

I know I mentioned this to ya in the Shulk skype group, but worry not I'll get a post up about my thoughts for the move.

Am I the only one that is a fan of Back Slash Leap?

You're clearly not.

 

[Scieric]

You're clearly not.

Good. I see a lot if utility in it. For example. If your opponent is facing away from you in the air and you read a BAir, you're going to get them a lot easier that with normal Back Slash and this option is also faster. The decreased horizontal movement is also not that big of a hindrance considering Shulk's awesome range. Plus if you get that read, it is nearly impossible to accidentaly SD because it goes straight down. It is now a better mixup landing option and about that read again, if your opponent is at a decent percent, due to your descent speed and the fact that you are knocking your opponent to the edge and if not, off the stage, you WILL have stage control. Shulk thrives heavily under stage control. It's just so much better for the overall point of Shulk.

 

[erico9001]

Good. I see a lot if utility in it. For example. If your opponent is facing away from you in the air and you read a BAir, you're going to get them a lot easier that with normal Back Slash and this option is also faster. The decreased horizontal movement is also not that big of a hindrance considering Shulk's awesome range. Plus if you get that read, it is nearly impossible to accidentaly SD because it goes straight down. It is now a better mixup landing option and about that read again, if your opponent is at a decent percent, due to your descent speed and the fact that you are knocking your opponent to the edge and if not, off the stage, you WILL have stage control. Shulk thrives heavily under stage control. It's just so much better for the overall point of Shulk.

Oh, had not thought of that. Maybe I do have a reason to give it another try...

So these are the current sets we have listed out:

Critical sets
1113
2113
3113
Preferential sets
1123
3123
3213
Niche
1122
3122
Optional
1213
2123

I want to review this.

Critical sets
1113
2113
3113

Here, each custom Monado art is accounted for. Each custom monado art has a different playstyle, and we have our preferences on which one we like to use. For the reason that default monado arts have been used the most, they are the most common. However, whichever one is the best or the worst is a question that is not answered; although, decisive monado arts appear to be the least conventional. There may never truly be a monado art considered better or worse than the other.

Initially, it seemed as though the most common custom move would be normal vision. However, Power Vision has a general consensus of being more useful. Since the two arts are used in such similar situations, there is not much room for preference between the arts, so Power Vision replaced normal Vision on every set. The last custom, dash vision, has different uses than the other two.

Preferential sets
1123
3123
3213

The Air Slash Customs might be considered the second most important custom move. These moves took a deal of exploration before they were understood. The two most comparable are advancing air slash and air slash. They have the same range, so the amount of instances in which they would each come into use is about the same. As an on-stage attacking move, advancing air slash is better. Its recovery is more horizontal than regular air slash, which lessens the drifting distance which Vanilla, Buster, Smash, and Shield need to travel before using the up B, making it easier for those arts to recover after being hit off the edge from an enemy attack. However, it is about equal to normal air slash in monado speed, and worse than normal air slash in monado jump. Furthermore, advancing air slash allows for less shenanigans while low off-stage, but more shenanigans if high off-stage. The choice between Advancing Air Slash and normal Air Slash is difficult, as each has uses over the other. Performance with each custom seems about equal. It really matters how you play.

Mighty Air Slash is more comparable to Air Slash. This is all explained in the op. Against Air Slash, Mighty Air Slash overall loses out. The time as which it can be used as an attacking move are very limited. The first factor in that is the lesser range, which becomes less than F-tilt. You need to be closer to the opponent, and if spacing well, that should not happen very often. Secondly, there is almost no drifting after using the move. So, if intending to use it off-stage, you must be very close to the edge if you mean not to die. In addition, if the move is whiffed while on-stage, the opponent does not even need to move to punish you. He can just charge his smash attack up right there. The lack of horizontal movement Mighty Air Slash also raises issues for recovering. You must recover from almost the same spot if you are looking to A) Recover horizontally close enough to the edge that you grab onto it and B) Recover vertically low enough so that you do not end up above the edge while recovering, where you will be prone to enemy attacks. In addition, if actually using the move to recover in a situation where you might potentially lose your stock, Mighty Air Slash cannot make as much distance as both Air Slash and Advancing Air Slash in all arts other than Jump (although, Speed is only slightly behind). The lack of horizontal movement causes that.

There are only a few saving features of Mighty Air Slash. A) In the case that it does manage to hit the opponent, the move deals more damage. B) It has a knockback angle more favorable to on-stage kills. C) It allows for even more fooling below the stage (edgeguards, off-stage counters, etc.), however, even less horizontal fooling. D) Monado Jump has a greater possibility for recovery in life/death situations, but that might not be a realistic possibility if the opponent knows how predictable your recovery must be.

That is why normal Air Slash is mostly better than Mighty Air Slash. However, Mighty Air Slash might be good if a person's playstyle centers around low, off-stage edgeguarding, and does not tend to use air slash as an attacking move. This would rely on the opponent not being great at stage spikes, however. Perhaps Mighty Air Slash deserves one slot on the list of sets? I do not know. Since tournaments should usually allow custom set imports, maybe the person preferring Mighty Air Slash should use that. Unfortunately, there is not much room in the custom sets.

Niche
1122
3122

Dash Vision is pretty different from the other two counters, and has different uses. This gives it a few spots on the list.

Optional
1213
2123

Lastly, the back slash customs do not change too much, because the move originally does not have much use in the first place. It might be true for there to be more use with the other customs, but plain Back Slash is the most commonly used. The uncommon Shulks who use other back slash customs are few enough that not much time would have to be allocated for them to import their custom set.

So, a quick reminder about changing custom sets:

Also, I talked with Amazing Ampharos about sets, and he said that the custom moveset project is not going to be updated until Fall (for good reasons). I say we can still discuss sets in here, and then we can have a "non-standard sets" section in the OP where they can be listed. If needed, players can import them at their tournaments into the extra two slots that are available. When Fall comes, we will have the opportunity to decide if any of the non-standard sets should replace standard sets. Like the standard sets, I would want to go in depth with describing each one of the non-standard sets.

I think there is some room for improvement in the custom sets. As you saw above, I kind of organized the custom sets into the ideas behind them. How I did his was kind of:

Critical sets: The three custom monado arts.
Preferential sets: Same as above, but with advancing air slash. Exception: 2123 is not here, and 3213 is here instead.
Niche sets: Zone breaking, so Dash vision + AAS with each monado art. Exception: No decisive art
Optional sets: Different back slash customs. Exception: 2123 is here, and not 1213.

The exceptions to the rules of each group of sets is what are the key points for possibility of change. Firstly, does 3213 qualify for a customs set? It is very similar to the critical set, 3113, with the only change being Back Slash -> Back Slash Leap. From what I understand, the only reason driving this set is that Hyper Buster is able to break the shield of somebody if they are on a platform above you and you hit them in just the right spot with the move. This seems like it would be a very rare occurrence, and has anybody actually been employing this strategy? That might not provide enough utility to justify a spot over something else, such as advancing air slash with decisive arts (which is great for the decisive Shield strategy). Another option for this spot is 2122, which would be great for zone breaking and would give decisive shield another recovery option. That would be organized under the niche sets group, however. 2322 could be tacked onto there as well, for additional recovery/zone breaking. Another option is to have a 1133 set; although, still consider what I said above about Mighty Air Slash. If it actually turns out that 3213 is liked enough, it is also possible for 3213 to replace 3113 in the critical sets.

At the least, 2123 should be switched around with 3213. This provides more consistency. Since 2123 will probably be more common than 3213, it makes more sense for 3213 to be an optional set so there is less importing at tournaments that are not like EVO. Still, even with that as optional, it might be better for another set to take its place in the optional section for events like EVO (any of the ones I mentioned would work).

Again, I don't think I can get Amazing Ampharos to change the set at this time, so there is no rush in discussing this .

 

[Scieric]

Dayum, that was a lot of talking. About 3213, it would probably be my set of choice if I chose to try and use the Hyper Arts instead. But I myself feel that the default Arts are tge most conventional and balanced, so I will stick with that for the time being. However, if I am in the minority here and 3213 is more preferred in the general concensus, I cannot argue. If it is what more people want, then it makes more sense to include that one instead. I would just like to know how on the face of this planet someone is going to find a reliable way to break that sheing in Hyper Buster which only lasts 6 seconds and has a ~20 second or something cooldown with an already hugely risky MArts custom. So for now, I will non-violently disagree on that matter and I just do not see someone being able to make a big capitalization in 6 seconds.

This leads me to another point. The Hyper Arts. I do not like them at all. I mean, they would be absolutely fantastic and I would love them if they lasted something more along the lines of 10 seconds. It is less time, but a bit too long for your opponent to just wait out. Also, Hyper Sheild will make you not die for 6 seconds. That's awesome. But then you are not in Hyper Sheild. You opponent just waited it out and now you are in a terrible spot for all that time that you must wait for sheild to recover. At least with the regular Arts, they take effect more time than the cooldown does. It's insane! I want to switch into Sheild and play defensively when it runs out and I risk dying. Maybe with Jump or Speed. Maybe Vanilla. But with Hyper Arts, you have to do that for way longer and not a fair length of time at all compared to the time it is in effect. Same with Hyper Smash. Your opponent can just wait it out. Then they won't die. Never underestimate your opponent's ability to run away for 6 seconds. Especially when you aren't getting a mobility boost. The only time it's worthwhile to use is when you have stage control. Jump and Speed are very good at doing this, but in their Hyper forms, they become extremely hard to use and control and as I stated, you only have 6 seconds. The same uselessness comes in Hyper Buster. When it FINALLY does enough knockback to actually combo without getting interrupted and punished for a HUGE amout of damage (not Hyper Buster's insane property of damage back to you), it's pointless. You already have ways to kill. So Hyper Sheild, Buster and Smash are almost pointless and Jump and Sheild are super hard to control, coupled with the fact that you only have 6 SECONDS, I don't see how anybody preferres it against anyone who is actually good.

 

[Goesasu]

2123 is my set i can defend it till the end of time. It always bugged it being labeled as an option set rather than a preferential set. But as long as its there im good.

actually now i cant turn back to default monado or default airslash i need them both together so much. Decisive because im always in speed and AAS its amazing with decesive shield and as an on stage attack.

 

[Scieric]

2123 is my set i can defend it till the end of time. It always bugged it being labeled as an option set rather than a preferential set. But as long as its there im good.

actually now i cant turn back to default monado or default airslash i need them both together so much. Decisive because im always in speed and AAS its amazing with decesive shield and as an on stage attack.

I respect your opinion. OPINION! All preferences for custom moves are OPINION. Why does it bug you? I personally play very aggresively so this set would not work for me because it looks pretty defensive on paper. It requires putting much more time into thought before approaching. I don't wan't to give my opponent the chance to think too much. I want to catch them off guard by while they think we are just going to feel each other out, I am already in your face pressuring you before you can make too elaborate a game plan. With this set, you have to commit to a certain Art beforehand. If I find that a certain Art isn't working out because I chose wrong, I'm totally fine because I can just change it. That way I've seen how my opponent reacts to pressure and since I am scaring them, but I'm totally fine, so I'm thinking about ways to pressure them with a different Art while they are still trying to work on this one. The Arts' whole point is to adapt to what your opponent is doing and then, completly change your whole plan right in front of them whilst they are still adapted to fighting the one you were just in? Guess which MArt custom DEOSN'T allow you to change your plan whenever. It gives your opponent WAY too much time to think for my preferences, so you must play cautiously while you may have made a huge mistake in your Art choice or just given yor opponent time to plan out for all of them. However, if you do find this Art your preference, then I respect your choice of UpB. Being stuck in Sheild while recivering makes it a near-impossible task against those who had the TIME TO PLAN AN EDGEGUARD unless you have that one. As for your choice of Back Slash, I respect it. Like Leap, this Back Slash variant actually has a little use! Charge should be reserved strictly for doubles. Don't even bother putting it in a niche set. Waste of time.

 

[Maple42]

Shulk's Back Slash Leap seems to serve little purpose; increasing its offensive potential is irrelevant, considering Back Slash (or any of its variants) aren't exactly the best option to attack with. However, with Back Slash Charge, it can be used as a niche option due to its Super Armor to get out of a combo; while it only serves that purpose, it seems to be more than what Back Slash Leap offers.

 

[Scieric]

Shulk's Back Slash Leap seems to serve little purpose; increasing its offensive potential is irrelevant, considering Back Slash (or any of its variants) aren't exactly the best option to attack with. However, with Back Slash Charge, it can be used as a niche option due to its Super Armor to get out of a combo; while it only serves that purpose, it seems to be more than what Back Slash Leap offers.

Yeah, about that getting out of combos thing, the landing/end lag is enough for most opponents to just run over and punish. As I said, it's only real use is for doubles. And the other 2 ARE good offensive options excuse me! It's called getting a read! Another way to hit it is called a mixup! Or some morons who can't tech may get comboed into it! WOW! It seems like they DO have some use. Please check your facts before presenting them.

Oh, and by the way, erico, LOVE the Alvis pic!

 

[Maple42]

Charge can get out of aerial combos that are close enough to the ledge to make it back, but not enough for the opponent to get back; the combo in mind was Ness' down throw into forward air towards offstage.
As for the others, yes, I know what a read is. However, for Back Slash, the move is extremely laggy, and as mentioned, has tons of ending lag as well; if we're assuming we're hitting towards the back, which is even more unlikely, it'll do 14%, or 16% with Back Slash Leap, which isn't that great for a hard read. It is situational in the sense that
a) you have to have a pretty good read to land it
b) if we're assuming we're hitting from behind, that's even more unlikely
c) the knockback isn't too great, so you might get punished by landing it

 

[Scieric]

When I was talking about reads, I mostly meant attempts for a BACK AIR! Then you can get the back hit. Then you will be fine.

 

[Maple42]

I think we would benefit from having a general sense of what archetypes should be countered by which custom set; as such, here are the theoretical optimized sets for each character:

2322 (Anti-Zoning)

Spoiler

Toon Link, Samus, Rosalina and Luma, Bowser Jr., Mr. Game and Watch, Pit, Dark Pit, Villager, Pac-Man, Mega Man, Duck Hunt, ROB, Robin, Link, Zelda

To me, these are the most obvious; Decisive allows Shulk to go mobility Arts the entire time, which zoners don't take very well to. Advancing Air Slash is usually paired with Decisive to allow Speed to recover horizontally to the stage, a task it is lackluster at. Finally, Dashing Vision takes a proactive role in these match-ups, being able to punish stray projectiles.

3313 (Characters that can't outrun a Hyper Monado Art and don't have a Dash Vision-counterable projectile)

Spoiler

Bowser, Little Mac, Wario, Donkey Kong, Ganondorf, Meta Knight, Kirby, Falco, Charizard, Lucario, Jigglypuff, Lucina, Olimar, Ike, Marth

The oddball group; they aren't fast enough to stall out the shortened timer of Hyper Arts, and as such, theoretically our best match-ups. Power Vision, other than countering projectiles, is a flat upgrade to Vision.
Lucario is in this list despite having Aura Sphere because Power Vision is worth the risk against it; when it loses the stock lead, it usually loses the match as well.

3312 (Characters that can't outrun a Hyper Monado Art and have a projectile)

Spoiler

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Diddy Kong, Dr. Mario, Wii Fit Trainer, Ness, Mewtwo

Same reasoning as the 3313 group, except they have projectiles suspectible to being Dash Vision'd.

1311 (Characters that aren't suspectible by Power Vision and can outrun Hyper Monado Arts)

Spoiler

Zero Suit Samus, Palutena, Pikachu, Greninja, Fox, Captain Falcon, Sonic

Unfortunately, these characters are just too fast to catch with Hyper Arts consistently. Furthermore, their main ways of attack are aerial, and as such, are not reliably hit with Power Vision.

1313 (Special cases)

Spoiler

Sheik

Despite being classified the same way as the 1311 group, Sheik holds a special niche; she can't seal the KO easily. As such, like Lucario, it'd be a boon to be able to close the stock early if at all possible.

Unsure of the match-up
Mirror, Kind Dedede

As always, feel free to correct me. c:

 

[Scieric]

What use do you see in SideB3? For anti-zoning/camp, use 2122. It still goes forward which seems to be what you're going for, but it doesn't absolutely suck if you hit the front and is a little less predictable. For those who can't outrun a Hyper Art, you can probably get them with any OTHER Back Slash custom. No SideB3, just no. Same for 3(3)12. For 1(3)11, don't use 3. Just because it can "help" you approach does not mean that you won't be pushed back out and taking a lot of damage. Another thing that I noticed is that you NEVER provided an explanation as to why you like SideB3 for the set. I still have no reason whatsoever to even coming close to liking it.