Let's Talk about Smashville

[Balgorxz]

I think the most popular and overused stage in the game deserves it's own thread and I want to have some discussion about it, first I want to point out that smashville is considered neutral in smash 4 for now but why?
from now on I will voice my own OPINIONS about it.

I could understand having smashville as a neutral in brawl because its own mechanics but in smash4, characters recovery is so good that reaching the plataform to escape from pressure makes games last longer, this also screws some characters that purely rely on pressure to fight.
smashville can also makes the games shorter if people are using diddy since it has very low ceiling and the plataform extends uair combo, I think this stage is very unfair to rest of the cast since it favours top tiers too much, plataform can be used to extend boucing fish very easily and it favors camping.
and the worst thing of this stage its the terrible music, oh god make it stop.

I'd like too see some explanation why good players prefer it over BF and town and city which are better for competitive play IMO, from what I've been told its mostly people getting used to it because PM and Brawl but I want to ask the community about it since I think this stage is used to much and people are just learning how to play in smashville and that's it, losing stage variety this early is kind of upsetting.

legalize skyloft

 

[ATH_]

Smashville, like any other stage, has benefits and detriments to all characters.
It's not a neutral, no stage is "neutral". It's a starter.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Its the stage I always striked first when I was playing Brawl.

It ain't some magical "always a neutral stage/closest to neutral for every MU" stage people. One of the many reasons why starter lists need at least 5 stages.

 

[ATH_]

Its the stage I always striked first when I was playing Brawl.

It ain't some magical "always a neutral stage/closest to neutral for every MU" stage people. One of the many reasons why starter lists need at least 5 stages.

Agreed. The more starters the more balanced a list, however it still may not be a good thing to have borderline stages be starters. However, that even is under discussion and being doubted.

 

[Balgorxz]

Its the stage I always striked first when I was playing Brawl.

It ain't some magical "always a neutral stage/closest to neutral for every MU" stage people. One of the many reasons why starter lists need at least 5 stages.

yeah 5 starters is good thing, but we have only 3 starters for evo.

 

[ATH_]

yeah 5 starters is good thing, but we have only 3 starters for evo.

This has already been talked about, the Evo Staff says they'll likely move 2 stages to make it 5 for a more balanced game. Hopefully T&C + Duck Hunt.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

This has already been talked about, the Evo Staff says they'll likely move 2 stages to make it 5 for a more balanced game. Hopefully T&C + Duck Hunt.

T&C's probably a shoo-in for 4th starter, but I think it would be hilarious if the 5th were Delfino or Castle Siege. No real reason, just something that amuses me to think about since I can imagine the salt.

 

[ATH_]

T&C's probably a shoo-in for 4th starter, but I think it would be hilarious if the 5th were Delfino or Castle Siege. No real reason, just something that amuses me to think about since I can imagine the salt.

Heh, oh boy.
Delfino > Lylat

 

[webbedspace]

Well, let's be fair, 2 of Castle Siege's 3 forms are basically "starter material" already (to the extent that most people only counterpick the stage to benefit from the other form).

 

[Luigi player]

since it has very low ceiling and the plataform extends uair combo, I think this stage is very unfair to rest of the cast since it favours top tiers too much, plataform can be used to extend boucing fish very easily and it favors camping.

So you want to play on FD / Omega only stages? Because every platform can do this.

Pretty sure the top platform on BF is closer to the ceiling than the SV platform. And same with the TaC platforms (might depend on transformation).

Let my quote myself about why I like SV:

"FD is a little special, since there are no platforms. Some might not like that or their character has some problems with it, but what about BF? The same can be said about it. The platform formation on that stage makes it so you can combo more easily (/more difficult to avoid juggles), it's more difficult to approach, you could end up being caught landing at the top platform and KO'd early, and not to forget, the blastzones for the stage are really far away, making it one of the stages where you live really long (which makes it seem a little weird, since on almost all other stages you don't live as long).
Smashville is just a really good middle-ground. It's not too interfering, still somewhat like FD, but with a platform so you can be safe from projectiles, play around with and use it or whatever your problem with FD was. You also can't camp below the platform like on BF, since it moves, making it pretty much perfect.
It was my obvious stage choice for Brawl and now it's still my goto option in Smash4. And that was and is because I feel the best there with every character. Why? (Pretty much) No janky stuff happens, and it's not as polarizing as FD or BF."

 

[Balgorxz]

Heh, oh boy.
Delfino > Lylat

SkyLoft > Lylat
Halberd > Lylat
Wuhu > Lylat

 

[ParanoidDrone]

SkyLoft > Lylat
Halberd > Lylat
Wuhu > Lylat

Pac-Land > Lylat?

Nah, that's a bit much.

Omega Lylat > Lylat?

 

[FimPhym]

I'm glad to see the distinction on neutral and starter. I don't know if my feelings on stages are even correct for my character, but I hate playing smashville as dedede. Every time I go there, I get nice edge guard and ledge game opportunities messed up a platform that goes pretty far off stage. My whole life is edge guarding and I need no help recovering - I'll take most stage lay outs over the one that regularly messes with my strongest advantage time.

I do doubt how correct I can be though, given that all tournament players I see on streams seem to be enamoured with the stage and never miss a chance to play on it. Quite possible they know something I dont, or my character is a bizarre exception.

Edit: wow lots of posts about smashville in the thread let's talk about smashville

 

[Thinkaman]

smashville can also makes the games shorter if people are using diddy since it has very low ceiling

Uh, what?

 

[AnchorTea]

Uh, what?

I know, i'm just as confused on why Diddy's so OP.

Feel free to report me if you're offended...

 

[Shaya]

In essence, Smash is best when pushed towards platformer mechanics. Moving (and normal) platforms is so key to this that it's no wonder it's the most popular stage (I really like Town+City more so than SV because of this). Platforms are the only real means of advanced techniques / highly technical execution in Smash4 and skill differences are noticeable (edge cancels + platform drops oos) etc. Moving platforms accentuate this further through the dynamic interactions that may occur (+ positional advantages not being constant/insurmountable).

Other stages with these dynamics are mostly sour for longer-term players due to how MK went about things in Brawl, that thought process needs a bit of a shake up.

Slanted platforms are "janky" in comparison and usually limit options rather than accentuating them (in human terms rather than in technical).

 

[AnchorTea]

In essence, Smash is best when pushed towards platformer mechanics. Moving (and normal) platforms is so key to this that it's no wonder it's the most popular stage. Platforms are the only real means of advanced techniques / highly technical execution in Smash4 and skill differences are noticeable (edge cancels + platform drops oos) etc. Moving platforms accentuate this further through the dynamic interactions that may occur (+ positional advantages not being constant/insurmountable).

Other stages with these dynamics are mostly sour for longer-term players due to how MK went about things in Brawl, that thought process needs a bit of a shake up.

I don't get why people disagree with this. Try playing Smash Bros with the jump button off and see how dull it can be.

 

[Octagon]

I know, i'm just as confused on why Diddy's so OP.

Feel free to report me if you're offended...

I'm not offended haha. I don't think he is op but he is definitely a top tier character. His hoo hah combo (down throw into up air) is deadly because it racks up a lot of damage and unlike most other combos can kill at good percents. Furthermore his banana trips the opponent for an easy hoo hah and his smash attacks are fast and hit hard. Diddy Kong has a bad recovery in my opinion but when people like Zero and Mew2king use Diddys recovery they have no problem

 

[Balgorxz]

I do doubt how correct I can be though, given that all tournament players I see on streams seem to be enamoured with the stage and never miss a chance to play on it. Quite possible they know something I dont, or my character is a bizarre exception.

that is my original question, why people like it so much that its played like 90% of the time.
I see no extraordinary competitive value from it, and if it has I would like a serious explanation because the stage is really boring for viewers.

 

[webbedspace]

Let me quote myself from an older thread:

It actually has a few structural details that are lacking in other stages:
1) it has one upper platform - not three or zero - which only covers at most two-fifths of the stage, enough to benefit some platform-happy characters, but not to a great degree.
2) The platform is roomy enough that ground-based approach and retreat is still possible when both characters are on it.
3) The platform moves back and forth, meaning no part of the stage is permanently protected from vertical attacks, and characters riding the platform don't have a single consistent path to reach characters on the ground (and vice-versa).
4) The platform periodically intrudes close - but not too close - to the blast lines, allowing characters to often recover more easily, and other characters riding the platform to get surprisingly - but not shockingly - early KOs.

These points may also explain why Town & City is a mite less popular than Smashville. The narrower platforms aren't as accommodating as the sole platform, the Town platforms move vertically rather than horizontally, and the City platforms cover slightly more of the ground, more often.

Actually, mulling over point 4, what I want the Stage Builder boffins to do is make a "diagonal Smashville" where the SV platform moves diagonally from upper-left to lower-right, so that at its leftmost point it's also fairly high in the air, and boosts vertical KOs as much as it does horizontal ones.

(I still hope the new Miiverse sharing system will allow a standard set of community stages to become viable at tournaments, even though the internet connection requirement may be a bit of a crimp on it.)

 

[Morbi]

Let me quote myself from an older thread:

(I still hope the new Miiverse sharing system will allow a standard set of community stages to become viable at tournaments, even though the internet connection requirement may be a bit of a crimp on it.)

I agree wholeheartedly with this post. It was, in essence, what I intended to post before I read it. That one platform, and the fact that it moves, is precisely why it is so popular. It has the potential to increase the length of the game; but conversely, it has the potential to decrease the length of the game as well. Therefore, the point is predominantly moot. At certain points, it favors characters that prefer flat stages, and of course, the antithesis of that. This makes it ideal for both players under most circumstances. Basically, it is the best of both.

 

[Opana]

I main Ganondorf and like Smashville for many reasons:

-Low enough to attack from below

-Recovery mix up

-Chasing farther offstage

-Falling through it and wizkicking or choking offstage for spiking and ciding respectively

-While also potentially increasing offensive options, it can potentially limit them or thtow in uncertainty as well and this is very good for my reads.

-Helps with camping

-Not too big which for me personally is great

-A nice option to land there after a wizkick cancel ledge guard

-Allows me to ledge hop retreating aerials onto the platform for a potential positional advantage

-Baiting aerials that would otherwise auto cancel on the ground to be used in a position where they feel the platform is safe, which can be accomplished pretty easily given the threat of his moves. Empty hops and Usmashes are great for this

 

[Charey]

that is my original question, why people like it so much that its played like 90% of the time.
I see no extraordinary competitive value from it, and if it has I would like a serious explanation because the stage is really boring for viewers.

The biggest reason for that is with a 3 stage striking list smashvile is somewhat "inbetween" of FD and Battlefield and a lot of times either FD or Battlefield will favor one side of the match-up leading to a forced strike by player one and player two going with the option that is closer to what they want.