Let's talk about our attitudes and Captain Awesum

[Amazing Ampharos]

The reason why tiger shots is different from villedger is because the opponent is forced to engage. Chun Li can't sit on the other side of the stage and take chip damage. Plus, there is a point to her trying to build the super from the other side of the stage, at which point Sagat is forced to play very differently. There is player v player interaction the entire match. And for those who don't know that chun li can't win fireball wars because she's a charge character, Sagat is imposing his will upon her.

With villager, and planking in general, you're telling your opponent they're forced to come out from safety and fight through your camp to attack you before the time runs out. But villager isn't imposing his/her will upon the opponent. The timer is forcing the opponent to approach. Even when the timer is at 3 minutes, which is a long time, the threat of a timeout is looming. That's a round of boxing long. And when a trip seed is out, the smart thing to do is to not engage. So.................. You get gameplay that is not the most interesting to watch.

In my experience, it's not "playing defensive" that spectators dislike, it's the lack of conflict and player v player interaction.

This basically amounts to smash 4 being a slower game than ST... which it is, but even if that adequately explains why Captain Awesum's play is so much more boring than the (clearly more degenerate) O.Sagat, it doesn't explain the hatred. Had the audience given Captain Awesum a chorus of yawns, I wouldn't be bothered.

 

[Locke 06]

This basically amounts to smash 4 being a slower game than ST... which it is, but even if that adequately explains why Captain Awesum's play is so much more boring than the (clearly more degenerate) O.Sagat, it doesn't explain the hatred. Had the audience given Captain Awesum a chorus of yawns, I wouldn't be bothered.

Very true, but I think the smash community would enjoy this GF set. Didn't get it across well, but that was my point. I would like to think you were underselling the smash community. -shrugs-

Bottom line is still the bottom line. Nobody deserves player hate based on how they play the game.

 

[iVoltage]

You play to win in a tournament scene correct? If he has found a way he likes to play and he can win with it good on him. The people need to either get over it or learn how to beat it. If somebody was doing to polar opposite to you, that being rushing you down, you would adapt and learn to play against it correct? Its the same here. Nobody has to bend to these peoples wills and frankly this behavior is downright childish and disgusting. Honestly if some grown ass men cant handle somebody playing a game how they don't like it they don't need to play at all.
/rant

 

[Kofu]

I'm going to start with a few points. I dislike Captain Awesum's playstyle but acknowledge it as a viable (but beatable) strategy. However I hold no particular ire toward him as a player. Directly attacking the person is something that shouldn't be done.

With that out of the way, I'm going to address something that's relevant to the way Captain Awesum plays Villager but hasn't been talked about in this topic before. I think that a lot of the struggles against him, and frankly against Villager in general, are that a lot of people don't really understand how Villager works. I could be wrong, but I feel like Villager is among the most disliked characters in the cast on a general level. Maybe not among top players, but I've seen a lot of hate toward Villager just because of his tools. I think that better understanding the character will help combat a lot of the hate toward campy, and especially custom campy, Villager players.

As a quick caveat, I have minimal experience fighting against campy Villager players and against his customs. So what I'm about to talk about is general to the character, customs, or not, with a little smattering of my own experience using Villager.

Villager's aerials are strong. NAir comes out frame 3 and is his main combo-breaking tool but has short range, basically not extending past Villager's body. FAir and BAir hit on frame 10 and 13 respectively, making them pretty average as far as startup go. However since they autocancel, travel a good distance, and can be used retreating, they can be hard to punish. Aside from being reflectable, they are easily cancelled by lasting hitbox, especially aerial sex kicks.

His ground game is relatively mediocre, but it has a few things to watch out for. Jab is frame 3 and has decent range. It's one of the few jabs with a repeating loop that doesn't have a finisher. Both hits do 3% and come out relatively fast (you can break shields with it if your opponent prefers that to taking a few percent). Because knockback scales with damage followups may be possible at higher percents. His grabs are slow (standing grab is frame 14 and the others are slower) which can make pressuring his shield relatively safe, especially with ranged attacks, which allows you to avoid his NAir. However DThrow has low percent followups and BThrow kills (arguably the second strongest after Ness's). DSmash's front hit hits on frame 6 and buries, allowing for a kill setup in tandem with USmash. FSmash is slow (the initial hitbox coming out on frame 25) but it has a quick release from charging and can be dropped off of platforms aside from the obvious ledge for pressure.

His specials are arguably the biggest problems with camping Villager, and unfortunately I don't have much advice to give here besides general weaknesses.

One thing I haven't seen exploited against Captain Awesum in his matches is Lloid's significant startup time. The default Lloid Rocket locks Villager into the animation for 52 frames, and I have little reason to believe that Pushy Lloid is much different, if at all. When the player is using it so frequently, it's very possible to hit Villager before the animation is finished, either by running through Lloid and dash attacking or jumping over and hitting him with an aerial. This is best done by characters who either have fast dash speed or a dash attack that moves them forward. During the initial animation, Lloid is intangible, but it gains a hurtbox roughly a third of the way through and will detonate only if it takes over 12%, so be aware of that.

Extreme Balloon Trip is a very frustrating attack because of how volatile the balloons are and for the safety it gives Villager should he choose to repeatedly grab the ledge (the only thing I would specifically change about his customs would be to stop stray balloons from floating through the stage). If you're able to get Villager far offstage, optimally far below the the stage, Extreme Balloon Trip's main weakness becomes apparent: Villager will not snap to the ledge if he's forced to detonate the balloons to get extra vertical distance, leaving him very vulnerable.

Like I said, I don't have a lot of experience against campy Villager players but he does have weaknesses that I don't always see being exploited. I'd be interested to hear what some of the people that play with Captain Awesum on a regular basis have learned to counteract the strategy.

 

[ぱみゅ]

As a side note, Rocket hitbox come out MUCH later than the rocket itself gets visible.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

This doesn't take away anything from the posts here, but I did hear from several players that Captain Awesum was a less-than-kind player himself. In particular, I heard he had some vitriolic words towards K9, a well known hot-head, after beating him. Something along the lines of "You're one of the best in California? You're nothing" or something like that. AFTER beating K9.

That doesn't at all mean he deserves what apparently happened. But (assuming what I was told is true), there was more to the story behind the community dislike than just his play style.

 

[Cassio]

Few people in that crowd knew Captain Awesum personally so, even if as a player he isn't the most mature, that can't have really been factoring in heavily to the hate he got. Based on what you are saying, I would agree that Captain Awesum probably has some room to improve his own conduct outside of the game...

This doesn't take away anything from the posts here, but I did hear from several players that Captain Awesum was a less-than-kind player himself. In particular, I heard he had some vitriolic words towards K9, a well known hot-head, after beating him. Something along the lines of "You're one of the best in California? You're nothing" or something like that. AFTER beating K9.

... there was more to the story behind the community dislike than just his play style.

Yup, he was making enemies everywhere.

Storytime (I wasn't there):
Apparently a group from SoCal saw terry get up from a setup and thought he left his controller. It turned out to be cpt awesomes who returned to get it, they understandably wanted to confirm with terry. After confirming if wasn't Terry's, cpt awesome got his controller and went on a salty and insult filled tirade. Socals players laughed it off, then later heckled him during his set vs Larry (maybe other sets too). Stories I'm hearing seem to confirm he has a bad attitude.

Trolling used to be 1000x worse in smash then it is now when it was more grassroots for people even w/o bad attitudes playing an unpopular style.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

This doesn't take away anything from the posts here, but I did hear from several players that Captain Awesum was a less-than-kind player himself. In particular, I heard he had some vitriolic words towards K9, a well known hot-head, after beating him. Something along the lines of "You're one of the best in California? You're nothing" or something like that. AFTER beating K9.

That doesn't at all mean he deserves what apparently happened. But (assuming what I was told is true), there was more to the story behind the community dislike than just his play style.

It's sad that people can't stand above the "an eye for an eye" concept, and that people still didn't learn to respect the logical "play to win" mentality.

But this thread has outlived it's not existent purpose.
The whole thread is nothing but a circlejerk that won't accomplish anything. Barely any of the harassers will read this, or do any kind of self reflection if they do.
We either need rules against this form of harassment or deal with the fact that some people in our community are simply immature.

 

[Raijinken]

I'm going to start with a few points. I dislike Captain Awesum's playstyle but acknowledge it as a viable (but beatable) strategy. However I hold no particular ire toward him as a player. Directly attacking the person is something that shouldn't be done.

With that out of the way, I'm going to address something that's relevant to the way Captain Awesum plays Villager but hasn't been talked about in this topic before. I think that a lot of the struggles against him, and frankly against Villager in general, are that a lot of people don't really understand how Villager works. I could be wrong, but I feel like Villager is among the most disliked characters in the cast on a general level. Maybe not among top players, but I've seen a lot of hate toward Villager just because of his tools. I think that better understanding the character will help combat a lot of the hate toward campy, and especially custom campy, Villager players.

As a quick caveat, I have minimal experience fighting against campy Villager players and against his customs. So what I'm about to talk about is general to the character, customs, or not, with a little smattering of my own experience using Villager.

Villager's aerials are strong. NAir comes out frame 3 and is his main combo-breaking tool but has short range, basically not extending past Villager's body. FAir and BAir hit on frame 10 and 13 respectively, making them pretty average as far as startup go. However since they autocancel, travel a good distance, and can be used retreating, they can be hard to punish. Aside from being reflectable, they are easily cancelled by lasting hitbox, especially aerial sex kicks.

His ground game is relatively mediocre, but it has a few things to watch out for. Jab is frame 3 and has decent range. It's one of the few jabs with a repeating loop that doesn't have a finisher. Both hits do 3% and come out relatively fast (you can break shields with it if your opponent prefers that to taking a few percent). Because knockback scales with damage followups may be possible at higher percents. His grabs are slow (standing grab is frame 14 and the others are slower) which can make pressuring his shield relatively safe, especially with ranged attacks, which allows you to avoid his NAir. However DThrow has low percent followups and BThrow kills (arguably the second strongest after Ness's). DSmash's front hit hits on frame 6 and buries, allowing for a kill setup in tandem with USmash. FSmash is slow (the initial hitbox coming out on frame 25) but it has a quick release from charging and can be dropped off of platforms aside from the obvious ledge for pressure.

His specials are arguably the biggest problems with camping Villager, and unfortunately I don't have much advice to give here besides general weaknesses.

One thing I haven't seen exploited against Captain Awesum in his matches is Lloid's significant startup time. The default Lloid Rocket locks Villager into the animation for 52 frames, and I have little reason to believe that Pushy Lloid is much different, if at all. When the player is using it so frequently, it's very possible to hit Villager before the animation is finished, either by running through Lloid and dash attacking or jumping over and hitting him with an aerial. This is best done by characters who either have fast dash speed or a dash attack that moves them forward. During the initial animation, Lloid is intangible, but it gains a hurtbox roughly a third of the way through and will detonate only if it takes over 12%, so be aware of that.

Extreme Balloon Trip is a very frustrating attack because of how volatile the balloons are and for the safety it gives Villager should he choose to repeatedly grab the ledge (the only thing I would specifically change about his customs would be to stop stray balloons from floating through the stage). If you're able to get Villager far offstage, optimally far below the the stage, Extreme Balloon Trip's main weakness becomes apparent: Villager will not snap to the ledge if he's forced to detonate the balloons to get extra vertical distance, leaving him very vulnerable.

Like I said, I don't have a lot of experience against campy Villager players but he does have weaknesses that I don't always see being exploited. I'd be interested to hear what some of the people that play with Captain Awesum on a regular basis have learned to counteract the strategy.

As an added note, he's vulnerable during regrabs when planking, a fact that almost any character including Little Mac can take better advantage of than Sheik, especially when (as was the case at EVO) the Sheik seems to forget SideB exists.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

The whole thread is nothing but a circlejerk that won't accomplish anything.

Welcome to Smashboards.

 

[RayNoire]

It's sad that people can't stand above the "an eye for an eye" concept, and that people still didn't learn to respect the logical "play to win" mentality.

But this thread has outlived it's not existent purpose.
The whole thread is nothing but a circlejerk that won't accomplish anything. Barely any of the harassers will read this, or do any kind of self reflection if they do.
We either need rules against this form of harassment or deal with the fact that some people in our community are simply immature.

Eh, I've seen circlejerkier.

I actually don't agree with creating rules to stop heckling or bullying. For one, it's super subjective and there's no clear line to cross. Also banning the act doesn't get rid of the sentiment behind it; in fact it probably strengthens it.

I think raising awareness that this type of thing exists in our community is a good purpose. It won't de-Grinchify the bullies, but it might inspire some people to counteract or confront them where they find them.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

I have to admit: I did not like the Capt. Awesum shenanigans, despite finding the exploding balloons to be funny (it was so sudden. POP! And there it goes). But that's the way he plays: he just likes to play defensively. It's okay to do booing (after all, like some people said on this thread, it may be directed at his actions and not to him), but personal attacks and harassment is not okay. As boring as it was, it is a legitimate playstyle and should be accepted: anyone who is playing against him has to adapt instead of complain and call him a camper. I know it's hard and boring, but patience is the key rather than going aggro.

 

[Hydruz]

capt awesum played lame as **** and he knew it, he even proclaimed himself best villager and is cocky as **** LOL i heard him say to the TO of his first pool "hey do you know when this is ending i wanna win and leave as soon as possible" if you're a cocky ******* and play THAT lame, you deserve to be constantly heckled, he takes pride in that ****

 

[CaptAwesum]

Okay I had to intervene here since someone directed me to this thread and theres alot of misinformation here, yeah I know its odd that I'm a brand new account and all that, tbh I havent actually used Smashboards other than occasional browsing for tech and etc. in multiple years, my old account is C.Awesum (which I used to go by but now only CaptAwesum) so I just figured id make a new one, anyway let me clear some things up cause as much as everyone hates me I need to do some form of correcting lol; and if possible id like this post to be tagged within the opening post if thats possible just so people arent misinformed

Okay lets see, this post will probably take a bit since i have to take note of whats been said so the points i correct will probably be all over the place

- What i said to K9 in retort to "You'd never beat me without customs" was "Dont worry about it youre like one of the best players on the west coast" i was trying to imply he'd do just fine in losers bracket
- The reason why i got so steamed about my controller being misplaced was because i was in a frantic rush to start my match that was called against Larry and i was being waited on because of that and i always get extremely nervous of if people steal something from me or if i misplace something, my bad but yeah
- In regards to that new-ish post, I said that because again i have a pretty cocky and confident persona, i knew i was going to win my pool after beating Zombe, and i was in a rush to go eat food with my friends who had already won their pools
- My tag is only ever CaptAwesum no variations
- John#'s isnt my crewmate just a friend who i hang out with at NY/NJ tourneys usually
- I live in Connecticut not NJ, although it seems like i live in NY/NJ its just cause going to those tourneys actually is shorter distance than most New England tourneys
- Im currently ranked #2 in New England according to our power rankings behind (#1 Marss) and before customs were at every tourney i was #3 behind (#1 Koolaid) and (#2 Marss) so dont just think im a random without customs, also ive been playing smash since early brawl so theres that tidbit too
- I got 17th at EVO where I made my way through winners bracket on Friday not dropping a single match (including against Rain) till i got to semis pools (top 32) where on Saturday i lost two sets in a row, id like to blame my poor performance on Saturday because of exhaustion/lack of sleep and anxiety but thats my own problem so im not gonna get pissy cause of it
- For what its worth John#'s and I teamed for dubs and we were remaining in losers bracket when the tourney ended abruptly right after losing to Nairo+Shaky which was after we beat MVD+Esam
- I don't have a brother or any siblings for that matter, i know it isnt mentioned here but people have claimed that before so yeah
- I personally apologize to those who I might've upset because of my behavior at tournaments, I know it seems flipped but im notably more antagonistic and occasionally a bit of an ass in person but in a state where im calm or alone, like online i try to be as polite as possible, id like to chalk up my in person behavior at tourneys to something of a competitive persona and anxiety tied in but im not using that as an excuse, if im completely honest im not entirely sure why i sometimes overstep in interactions
- It's kind of weird i even have to bring this up but I guess i will anyway, the reason why i am usually seen with the same clothes is because i always wear that outfit for when im at tourneys, a bit for luck and a bit for how comfy it is, as to why i wore it two days in a row, the clothing i had worn on Thursday, flying out to Vegas was being washed and I didnt feel like wearing my Villager cosplay (lol) which i was saving for sunday if anyone saw me walking around
- I've played hyper defensive in literally every fighting game I've ever played, its just how i like to play really, my absolute favorite thing to do in a fighting game is not-get-hit, i know its odd but thats just my gig, so i immediately gravitate to that form of character in whatever game it is im playing, i mained Villager since 3DS since he was the only character i found fun+he was zoning and then when customs became a thing i obviously immediately loved them due to my heightened zoning and success, for the record im for customs but i have reasoning behind it and not just for my own success, if it were to be the case although i doubt it, id still love for customs to be around even if mine and the other suspect ones were banned just cause i love the extra dimension it adds to Smash 4 thats unique to the other ones and etc.
- The boo'ing i didnt mind because hey, i know what my playstyle implies, its boring and its easy to root against, on the other hand what WAS upsetting was being heckled, people yelling behind me or in my ear while playing, uncalled for jabs at me whether personal or otherwise, comments about how im going to be nothing without customs or that i wont go to tourneys now because of it (lmao), and most importantly that people think that im OBJECTIVELY bad, lets think about something for a second, ive been playing smash for a reasonable amount of time now (beginning of brawl), ive played Villager since RELEASE almost exclusively, ive practiced without custom moves avidly up until mid March when customs were confirmed for EVO, then i trained with customs VERY AVIDLY from march right up until my plane flight to EVO, i was dead-set on getting Top 8 because at some point i figured customs might not be a thing anymore and even i realize that me making it into Top 8 without the amped up version of my main is quite the task, one that i wouldnt bank on atleast, customs on though i figured i had a good shot, and i did, i mean i was pretty close relatively speaking but oh well, btw im still playing even if its default just cause i love smash regardless although customs on is more fun ;D
- I USED to use DK occasionally in custom tourneys it was mainly for if i had to play against a Rosalina but sometimes it was just for if i felt my villager wasnt playing well and i wanted to jank out and or just not have to play AS hard as i have to do with villager, i know im not going to be convincing anyone with this but playing villager customs or not at a high level is very draining, to maintain precise timing and patience over the course of multiple hours of gameplay can take a toll on you at some point, im pretty good at it though so this usually doesnt get to me, also for the record ive dropped DK and have Wii Fit Trainer as a secondary who i use both with and without customs, also i have an okay-ish sonic so hooray lol
- Bruh give me some credit, i didnt get "lucky" with pools or whatever, i had to tank through Rain and K9 and admittedly some pretty good Meta Knight who i didnt ever hear of before, and no it wasnt Ito lol, but anyway, if youre wondering just why it is i beat Rain, granted yeah part of it is cause theres likely some sort of MU inexperience but keep in mind he plays against Ranai frequently so its not like he doesnt understand villager, and even then i could still tell he knew what he was doing, using piercing needles through my gyroid, bouncing fish on reaction to me placing a gyroid, using default grenade if i attempted planking (which forced me to stop after like 2-3 ledge grab reps usually), occasionally stopping combos to wait for me to mash out my N-air, etc. on the other hand why i feel i won more so is not because of the customs but rather gameplay unfamiliarity, when i analyzed Rains gameplay before our set i noticed that he never commits to a bouncing fish off the stage, in combos, hell sometimes the guy wont even go offstage for edgeguarding, i knew he played very cautious and if im not mistaken that falls in line with alot of Japanese players, also, i think he is used to that kind of playstyle youd see from Ranai, highly aggro, and i think he wasnt prepared for the defensive onslaught i brought in tandem with customs, also from what i could tell that was probably the best ive ever played, like literally ever, my adrenaline was pumping so fast that i could barely contain it, and if you were around the set up during the set i clearly made some physical demonstrations of how pumped i was which im kind of embarassed of in hindsight lol
- The only timeouts i caused for the entire tourney were the two people saw against larry lurr, granted many of my matches came down to the last minute on the clock they werent time outs, id like to think if i were more on point on saturday i wouldnt have had to time out larry lurr but oh well
- I place pretty well in my region, in fact, the only times i dont win are if Marss is in attendance, atleast if youre to look at results within the last 3months or so, the problem here is i tend to go to the larger tourneys in my region since im not really feeling driving multiple hours for tiny locals, and usually Marss will be there so yeah lol, also as far as locals or bigger scaled tourneys in NY/NJ go, i dont think i have to remind you its NY/NJ, which is sorta the strongest region since forever so give me a break if i only get like #2 or #3 geez
- I don't get salty when I lose, I generally get extremely upset with myself, if it comes off as salt thats not what i intend because half of me respects what my opponent is capable of doing (beating me) and the other half is me feeling like i f'd up, on the other hand i occasionally do a massive popoff or two if i won, sometimes its because of frustration of feeling like im about to lose and then i dont and the relief i get channels into that, if anything the only time i display anger is from a win, ironic as it is thats just how i tend to be, again apologies to this but you cant act like people arent going to NOT pop off sometimes
- I think im out of things to correct so ill leave it with this, im pretty upset in general by this whole drama thing, not because of the instance itself but its implications, people will probably hate me now or draw misconceptions, etc., hell i was even going to make a twitter for the weekend so i could tell people whats going on if anyone was interested and if i managed to get into Top 8 but now that my image is a bit more set in stone im too scared to see whatll happen if i attempt this, and thats just an example, honestly, this whole thing has really tarnished my view of the smash community by quite a large margin, i dont want to get into personal stuff but for the sake of it i have to admit in my life both personally and at home and etc. i have alot of hatred pent up in my life, people dont really treat me well, no ones really 'there' for me and i dont get much support really ever, sometimes i do from friends but even then its sparse, so to have this whole 'thing' happen to me which just further justifies myself in my hatred is really jarring in a way, especially when this is my main hobby by a longshot and i feel like im just exposed to more of what i try to escape from being here, ive had to defend myself day in and day out over the last several months in my own capability as a player, hell even people from my own region have actively rooted against me in my out of region ventures and make note of it to me, so if youre really wondering why i might be 'that' asshole, dont think it doesnt come without some sort of justification, im no saint so im not going to respond to what treatment i get happily, and also you have to understand at some point i had to come to terms with the treatment i get and try to feed off of it, and sometimes that entails me being the villain in whatever actions i take, again, not an excuse but rather trying to show you how it all is. If you feel some need to apologize to me its only really worth your effort if its thought out, if youre just some other person who heckled taunted or rooted against me i dont really care because i know if i were on the main stage again or whatever youd do it again, so yeah, thanks for reading this.

 

[blackghost]

This strategey is onestly not viable to win any decent tournament. so many characters have options or solutions to it. the fact that awesome is actually isably upset when he loses is actually pitiful even commentators called him out for it. I expect this strategey to fade away. This is the second time its been high profile and the second time the player got exposed. It was the first time ally had even seen the strategy in person and he still wrecked him.

 

[Ghostbone]

This strategey is onestly not viable to win any decent tournament. so many characters have options or solutions to it. the fact that awesome is actually isably upset when he loses is actually pitiful even commentators called him out for it. I expect this strategey to fade away. This is the second time its been high profile and the second time the player got exposed. It was the first time ally had even seen the strategy in person and he still wrecked him.

1. Lots of people are visibly upset when they lose, I mean you lost after playing your heart out, it's understandable.
2. Are you saying you wouldn't get wrecked by Ally? lmao

 

[blackghost]

1. Lots of people are visibly upset when they lose, I mean you lost after playing your heart out, it's understandable.
2. Are you saying you wouldn't get wrecked by Ally? lmao

i never said i'd beat ally. ever. i'd be luck if i could do 90 percent damage.
getting visiably upset after using this strategy to just fustrate your opponents isn't going to be given the same curtesey from other players.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

i never said i'd beat ally. ever. i'd be luck if i could do 90 percent damage.
getting visiably upset after using this strategy to just fustrate your opponents isn't going to be given the same curtesey from other players.

I'm pretty sure he does it to win, not to upset his opponents lol.
Also it's okay to get emotional, as long as you target it at yourself, not your opponent.

 

[|RK|]

Larry timing Captain Awesum out was undeniably fantastic from a spectator's perspective and the crowd enjoying that wasn't hypocritical or cruel in any way that I can see. Other than that, I agree with the vast majority of all the posts in this thread.

Pretty much. Turnabout is fair play, but no one should be bullied. In another way... you don't have to respect them, per-se. You just shouldn't disrespect them.

 

[SuaveChaser]

I don't get why booing is considered bad? It wasn't out of disrespect it was spectaors not enjoying slow campy gameplay. Death threats and bullying shouldn't happen. But you should be able to freely boo or cheer who you want.

 

[⑨ball]

I don't get why booing is considered bad? It wasn't out of disrespect it was spectaors not enjoying slow campy gameplay. Death threats and bullying shouldn't happen. But you should be able to freely boo or cheer who you want.

I think for most people booing sits on the line.
On one hand we don't want to tell anyone how they should and shouldn't react to a match as it's kind of our culture to cheer, jeer, chant and rant. It makes it all the more intense for everyone.

On the other hand we know it differs quite a bit from other regions like Japan and it can affect players quite a bit to hear people cheering against them or booing them.

I don't personally think it's right or wrong as both are things you'll have to learn to adapt to if you plan on being in the spotlight no matter what activity you're doing. That said, this thread was a nice step back for self examination of our community. We've got one of the better ones and I'm proud of that so I hope everyone, Captain Awesum included, uses what was expressed here to move forward.

 

[1FC0]

I like campy players though and I think that Captain Awesum plays pretty nice.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I think if the rules were better (not %-based wins so villager can't just throw some slingshots and effectively win off of that), it would be more interesting.

 

[Puppyfaic]

I don't get why booing is considered bad? It wasn't out of disrespect it was spectaors not enjoying slow campy gameplay. Death threats and bullying shouldn't happen. But you should be able to freely boo or cheer who you want.

It's impossible to know for sure whether they're booing the gameplay or the person. As such, it's kind of not ok.

 

[RayNoire]

Booing is pretty crass and idiotic regardless.

 

[neohopeSTF]

Crowd should be able to boo. He should expect that if he is going to go up on stage and play the way he does.

 

[SuaveChaser]

It's impossible to know for sure whether they're booing the gameplay or the person. As such, it's kind of not ok.

There was booing in other games people should be able to deal with crowd reactions imo.

 

[Puppyfaic]

Crowd should be able to boo. He should expect that if he is going to go up on stage and play the way he does.

I disagree; he shouldn't have to expect something like that. People should learn to be respectful. EVO is a professional setting. As such, everyone participating, whether spectator or player, should be held to some sort of behavioral standard. All booing does is show disrespect. And that's not OK. It's OK if you don't respect something; that's fine. But don't disrespect it.

 

[neohopeSTF]

I disagree; he shouldn't have to expect something like that. People should learn to be respectful. EVO is a professional setting. As such, everyone participating, whether spectator or player, should be held to some sort of behavioral standard. All booing does is show disrespect. And that's not OK. It's OK if you don't respect something; that's fine. But don't disrespect it.

He should expect it. The crowd is driven by emotion. They should be able to boo at something just as much as they cheer at something.

 

[Puppyfaic]

He should expect it. The crowd is driven by emotion. They should be able to boo at something just as much as they cheer at something.

Booing is rude. Cheering is not. Instead of booing one person, simply cheer for the other instead. Negative behavior should not be condoned. Period.

 

[neohopeSTF]

Booing is rude. Cheering is not. Instead of booing one person, simply cheer for the other instead. Negative behavior should not be condoned. Period.

Not everything is sunshine and rainbows. If the crowd hates him they should be able to boo and if they like someone they should be able to cheer.

 

[Pyr]

Not everything is sunshine and rainbows. If the crowd hates him they should be able to boo and if they like someone they should be able to cheer.

You hit a pet peeve of mine.

Na, not everything is. But actively choosing to go the direction that isn't in Happyville when you can clearly see it and walk down that path? Can't justify negative behavior, even en masse, when a better option is clearly present. But hey, why do that when you can hide behind the good old "life sucks, get used to it" card?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: Going to do something Taboo, so stick with me.

You're 16, based on your profile. No wonder you have no frame of reference to the viewpoint you just spoke about. Explains your entire stance, actually. Real talk, negativity for the sake of negativity is never a good thing, and you don't even know what sunshine and rainbows are in the context you spoke of. Even if you think that nothing is sunshine and rainbows, you must understand that it is 100% preferable to try and make it so. But you can't. You just don't have that frame of reference. And, you want to know what I tell people who speak about something that they don't know about?

Stop speaking.

I'm assuming a lot, cause age =/= maturity and whatever, but seriously. Bro. Seriously. We have 2 options: Cheer for the guy fighting the guy we hate, or boo the guy we hate. Which one is more hype? Which one is more positive?

Why do anything, intentionally, for less hype?

TL;DR: Why can't we boo the guy if we want to? Because, when choosing to be a d*** or not, choosing the not option is much more preferable.

 

[Antunee]

Booing isn't just a rude, it's careless and immature. How would you feel if you were doing something that you love in front of dozens of people and all you heard behind you was a wave of boos or heckling? Unless you're an emotionless husk, that's going to hurt.

And all this talk of "he should expect it" or "it happens all the time" is bs. Those aren't valid arguments for allowing negative conduct. They're just evidence that Smash, like many other games and sports, has toxic members in the community.

 

[FSLink]

Sorry, but if you're a competitive player, if you get booed at, suck it up. Whether it's for having "lame" play or using a top tier or whatever.

If you're not a player who plays to the crowd, you have to learn to deal with it, or it'll affect your play. Some players (See FChamp in Marvel) even embrace booing.

That being said, I draw the line at personal attacks/bullying/harassment/etc. That should not be tolerated, period.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

You hit a pet peeve of mine.

Na, not everything is. But actively choosing to go the direction that isn't in Happyville when you can clearly see it and walk down that path? Can't justify negative behavior, even en masse, when a better option is clearly present. But hey, why do that when you can hide behind the good old "life sucks, get used to it" card?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: Going to do something Taboo, so stick with me.

You're 16, based on your profile. No wonder you have no frame of reference to the viewpoint you just spoke about. Explains your entire stance, actually. Real talk, negativity for the sake of negativity is never a good thing, and you don't even know what sunshine and rainbows are in the context you spoke of. Even if you think that nothing is sunshine and rainbows, you must understand that it is 100% preferable to try and make it so. But you can't. You just don't have that frame of reference. And, you want to know what I tell people who speak about something that they don't know about?

Stop speaking.

I'm assuming a lot, cause age =/= maturity and whatever, but seriously. Bro. Seriously. We have 2 options: Cheer for the guy fighting the guy we hate, or boo the guy we hate. Which one is more hype? Which one is more positive?

Why do anything, intentionally, for less hype?

TL;DR: Why can't we boo the guy if we want to? Because, when choosing to be a d*** or not, choosing the not option is much more preferable.

Get off your high horse. I'm 19 and I agree with neohopeSTF. Booing is an everyday occurrence in real sports, and esports are not an exception. If we want to be accepted as an esport, we have to learn to deal with the fact that people will boo a player that they dislike.

EDIT: And I disagree with the notion that it is preferable to attempt to make everything sunshine and rainbows. Smash 4 gets flak for being unfriendly for spectators compared to Melee. But you know what is friendly to spectators? Watching a hated player lose. People will tune in to watch even if they don't particularly like Smash 4. People have praised Leffen for becoming the "villain" of the Melee community, not only because he gave people someone to strive to beat, but also because he gave spectators someone to cheer against so that they can get invested in the game. Conflict is a good thing for the scene.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

You hit a pet peeve of mine.

Na, not everything is. But actively choosing to go the direction that isn't in Happyville when you can clearly see it and walk down that path? Can't justify negative behavior, even en masse, when a better option is clearly present. But hey, why do that when you can hide behind the good old "life sucks, get used to it" card?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: Going to do something Taboo, so stick with me.

You're 16, based on your profile. No wonder you have no frame of reference to the viewpoint you just spoke about. Explains your entire stance, actually. Real talk, negativity for the sake of negativity is never a good thing, and you don't even know what sunshine and rainbows are in the context you spoke of. Even if you think that nothing is sunshine and rainbows, you must understand that it is 100% preferable to try and make it so. But you can't. You just don't have that frame of reference. And, you want to know what I tell people who speak about something that they don't know about?

Stop speaking.

I'm assuming a lot, cause age =/= maturity and whatever, but seriously. Bro. Seriously. We have 2 options: Cheer for the guy fighting the guy we hate, or boo the guy we hate. Which one is more hype? Which one is more positive?

Why do anything, intentionally, for less hype?

TL;DR: Why can't we boo the guy if we want to? Because, when choosing to be a d*** or not, choosing the not option is much more preferable.

It's not your job to choose for other people. The question is not "what is preferable", the question is "what is tolerable".
Last time I checked, booing is part of every "sport".

Also your age argument, not cool.

 

[Rikkhan]

Again why this is a drama? On top of my head dabuz and hungrybox has been constantly booed several times but guess what they didnt give a **** so there's no drama, but now a player that gives a lots of johns and amazing ampharos which is probably more concerned that captain awesum itself suddenly turn this in a huge drama.

You hit a pet peeve of mine.

Na, not everything is. But actively choosing to go the direction that isn't in Happyville when you can clearly see it and walk down that path? Can't justify negative behavior, even en masse, when a better option is clearly present. But hey, why do that when you can hide behind the good old "life sucks, get used to it" card?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: Going to do something Taboo, so stick with me.

You're 16, based on your profile. No wonder you have no frame of reference to the viewpoint you just spoke about. Explains your entire stance, actually. Real talk, negativity for the sake of negativity is never a good thing, and you don't even know what sunshine and rainbows are in the context you spoke of. Even if you think that nothing is sunshine and rainbows, you must understand that it is 100% preferable to try and make it so. But you can't. You just don't have that frame of reference. And, you want to know what I tell people who speak about something that they don't know about?

Stop speaking.

I'm assuming a lot, cause age =/= maturity and whatever, but seriously. Bro. Seriously. We have 2 options: Cheer for the guy fighting the guy we hate, or boo the guy we hate. Which one is more hype? Which one is more positive?

Why do anything, intentionally, for less hype?

TL;DR: Why can't we boo the guy if we want to? Because, when choosing to be a d*** or not, choosing the not option is much more preferable.

My god... You talk about age and maturity and you put that idealistic pipe dream, obviously people should not be mean to other people, of course it would be better to cheer for the guy fighting the guy we hate, and hopefully we get a better behaviour on the next events.
But not addressing that negativity (boo) its something you should expect when you do something that it's disliked (lame camping) and the only real advise for the person (in this case captain awesum) is to deal with it, it's being completely naive and not grasping the reality.
By the way I'm not saying booing is good I'm saying this is a common occurrence and its likely to stay for a long time no matter how much people whine, as a viewer you should not do that and as player you need to have the mental strength to shrug off that negativity.

 

[Pyr]

Get off your high horse. I'm 19 and I agree with neohopeSTF. Booing is an everyday occurrence in real sports, and esports are not an exception. If we want to be accepted as an esport, we have to learn to deal with the fact that people will boo a player that they dislike.

EDIT: And I disagree with the notion that it is preferable to attempt to make everything sunshine and rainbows. Smash 4 gets flak for being unfriendly for spectators compared to Melee. But you know what is friendly to spectators? Watching a hated player lose. People will tune in to watch even if they don't particularly like Smash 4. People have praised Leffen for becoming the "villain" of the Melee community, not only because he gave people someone to strive to beat, but also because he gave spectators someone to cheer against so that they can get invested in the game. Conflict is a good thing for the scene.

All I see is that we, as a community, have 2 options. We can be like every other competitive community these days (see, s***), or we can be better. But hey, if everyone's doing it, right?

Na. Your justification is terrible. There is NO reason to be that disrespectful. Period. Please do remember that, even if Leffen is the villain, he rarely gets booed anymore. At least that shows that not all the players in this community share your, franky, awful viewpoint. Cause, wanna know something? We can have these rivalries and villains and not have to boo or disrespect other players for x reason.

It's not your job to choose for other people. The question is not "what is preferable", the question is "what is tolerable".
Last time I checked, booing is part of every "sport".

Also your age argument, not cool.

Hey, if you're going to make a stupid post that shows you don't understand a concept that you're talking about, I'm going to call you out on it. And, again with the "everyone does it" bull****. You can't use that to justify your own bad behavior, or the behavior of others. If there is a better option, it should be used.

Booing, for the primary reason Smash players boo (character choice, playstyle, etc), is not acceptable and not tolerable. It honestly saddens me that people are trying to defend this garbage.

Again why this is a drama? On top of my head dabuz and hungrybox has been constantly booed several times but guess what they didnt give a **** so there's no drama, but now a player that gives a lots of johns and amazing ampharos which is probably more concerned that captain awesum itself suddenly turn this in a huge drama.




My god... You talk about age and maturity and you put that idealistic pipe dream, obviously people should not be mean to other people, of course it would be better to cheer for the guy fighting the guy we hate, and hopefully we get a better behaviour on the next events.
But not addressing that negativity (boo) its something you should expect when you do something that it's disliked (lame camping) and the only real advise for the person (in this case captain awesum) is to deal with it, it's being completely naive and not grasping the reality.
By the way I'm not saying booing is good I'm saying this is a common occurrence and its likely to stay for a long time no matter how much people whine, as a viewer you should not do that and as player you need to have the mental strength to shrug off that negativity.

Might happen for a while, ya. But it's not going to change if we don't make that change or have these discussions. And, if people use stupid ass arguments like "everyone does it!" and "it's a bad playstyle" and "life isn't kind or fair," I'm going to call people out on that stupidity. Simply put, we can be better, and we should be better, so that's what our end goal should be.

And, like I said, I went into a taboo, but at least I didn't make it a focal point.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Obviously bullying and harassment and actively trying to stack the deck against players is out of line. This does not bear any real dispute.

I will note that the crowd is free to boo play they find boring, though. You can call it 'negative', but they are mostly voicing that they are straight up not enjoying what they are spending their time watching. This doesn't have to change how the player behaves, their top goal is winning after all, but it at the very least should inform game developers of things the audience does not seem to appreciate. That's good info to have.

If I came out all that way primarily as a spectator, and saw a 'boring' match I'd probably be quick to offer some criticism on it too.

 

[Gibbs]

And I disagree with the notion that it is preferable to attempt to make everything sunshine and rainbows. Smash 4 gets flak for being unfriendly for spectators compared to Melee. But you know what is friendly to spectators? Watching a hated player lose. People will tune in to watch even if they don't particularly like Smash 4 ..... Conflict is a good thing for the scene.

Screw the faceless spectators on twitch. Smash is is first and foremost a community of competitors, 99.9% of whom are amateurs pay their own way to nationals. The prizes they win come out of their friends and supporters pockets. This whole thread is not about how you shouldn't boo your hometown football team's rival, but how we should act towards our peers. If you're in the crowd at EVO or CEO it's probably because you got knocked out of bracket. If we lose viewers or hype by taking steps to make the community less toxic for competitors who cares? Viewers don't pay into brackets at your weeklies or regional, viewers don't foster community growth, and the vast majority of viewers have never played smash outside of their bedroom. The idea that the competitive smash will die out unless we promote it like Pro Wrestling is nonsense.

Also the idea that booing is a super common occurrence in sports is dead wrong. Not only is the frequency of booing super variable at the pro level depending on the sport(aka tennis vs the NFL), it's also unbelievably rare in individual sports, and borderline unheard of in amateur tournaments. I dare you to go to a highschool tennis or golf tournament and boo some kid whose playstyle you don't like. See how people react when you assert your rights as a spectator.