colinies
Smash Cadet
On this saddest day of days, we did get some good news in the form of the shine buff, thoughts?
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I can't think of a single situation where gimping with shine would yield better results than using nair. Somebody please correct me, I really want a practical buff to compensate for the loss of the jab cancel.
Do you think it's worth it's weight in risk when playing vs a non easily gimped character? I understand it's a good option vs. Falcon but what about someone like Sheik?Shine can be used much deeper off stage because it stops Fox's momentum, and halts his double jump. It also has better base knockback than Nair and is more flexible, able to hit diagonally down and horizontally depending on where you hit them.
Additionally, the shine is tehcnically mildy disjointed and you are in a better position to attack them again after hitting them due to Nair pretty much requiring you to use a Rising Nair to not leave yourself vulnerable under the stage. Shine keeps your DJ available usually.
Lastly, you can turnaround in shine, so you can shine, turnaround and DJ>Bair their recovery depending on the character.
I've been experimenting with it for a bit. It feels pretty good overall but I wouldn't say it's game changing for him.
I personally don't even touch Sheik off stage. I still don't understand why she's allowed to have invincibility and a teleport that kills with a massive windbox.Do you think it's worth it's weight in risk when playing vs a non easily gimped character? I understand it's a good option vs. Falcon but what about someone like Sheik?
Hmm, interesting, will have to test it some more and try and implement. Thanks!I personally don't even touch Sheik off stage. I still don't understand why she's allowed to have invincibility and a teleport that kills with a massive windbox.
You might be able to do it if she's directly below the ledge due to Fox's incredible fast fall though. You might be able to catch her before she starts Vanish.
Other thing it's nice for is when they are near the ledge, Dash shining them puts them in a situation where they have to jump or upB quickly back to the ledge. It might end up being a decent mixup because of how mobile Fox is to punish different get up options.
So to answer your question, I think it's reasonably safe to try it even if the character has a great recovery, but only if the recovery doesn't heavily endanger you. So you can probably try to combine Nair and Shine to get Rob to run out of fuel, but I couldn't challenge Lucas or Sheik's UpB with it.
This move might have options on stage due to its speed and use out of a dash, and sending them at an angle that is hard to tech. If they tumble onto the ground near a ledge, you basically get a free follow up due to their limits in options...like a Usmash.
You have a 1-2 frames to HIT this, it's easy to air dodge, and it's not a big hitbox either. Not ****ing even going to attempt itYeah this shine buff is nonexistent. I can't imagine any scenario where I'd rather use shine offstage than just a dropdown Nair if I am going offstage.
Because it's FG lolYou have a 1-2 frames to HIT this, it's easy to air dodge, and it's not a big hitbox either. Not ****ing even going to attempt it
HOW ARE THEY EVEN BEING HIT BY IT
I kind of want to see it used against Diddy, just because the Jetpack would get reflected as well lolololoThe shine is brutal against fast fallers, especially ones with predictable recoveries like Fox or CF.
I did it last night on FG (I know), it was brutal for Diddy lol.I kind of want to see it used against Diddy, just because the Jetpack would get reflected as well lolololo
It has been a great gimping tool even before the patch.From what I've tested, it could be used to gimp characters like or , but it really doesn't have much use still.
You said something about movement options, but never explained as to WHAT options though, so it's hard to give a better opinion without proper knowledge.It has been a great gimping tool even before the patch.
You guys are too quick to judge. I personally think the patches are a bit dumb since it doesn't give the meta enough time to evolve but Shine is quite amazing like i said even before the patch. It gives fox more movement options that you will all hopefully see good players using soon enough.
haha I feel like all Fox players are wondering if they should just join the Sheik and Luigi overlords (I've only played 2 characters since the 3DS so i guess i've been lucky to not get touched till now). but Fox still has kill set ups with weak Nair up smash or Dair up smash if people don't tech, I think the hit is more in the match up department (wouldn't Ness basically destroy Fox now). i'm gonna try and tough it out (maybe the struggle will convince sakurai to give insta shine back).Just when i think I'm getting good with Fox he gets nerfed. Anyone have any ideas how Fox can be viable without a good kill set up that I learned how to do? I mean I have other mains but I'm a Starfox fan. I'm new here by the way, so what's up guys
I seem to do well against Ness with my Fox but maybe it's just luck on my part. Despite this patch taking out the jab lock Fox; I'm still comfortable with him, but maybe that's character loyalty and lots of practice that I should thank for that. Why exactly is Ness like Fox's kryptonite though?haha I feel like all Fox players are wondering if they should just join the Sheik and Luigi overlords (I've only played 2 characters since the 3DS so i guess i've been lucky to not get touched till now). but Fox still has kill set ups with weak Nair up smash or Dair up smash if people don't tech, I think the hit is more in the match up department (wouldn't Ness basically destroy Fox now). i'm gonna try and tough it out (maybe the struggle will convince sakurai to give insta shine back).
Technically we have to approach him because of PSI magnet, his Nair allows him to easily escape a string should we get even slightly carried away, he easily edgeguards us with his massively disjointed Fair and most importantly: Ness can sit in shield all day and shield grab us fairly reliably due to our low range and lack of threatening options from any of our throws.I seem to do well against Ness with my Fox but maybe it's just luck on my part. Despite this patch taking out the jab lock Fox; I'm still comfortable with him, but maybe that's character loyalty and lots of practice that I should thank for that. Why exactly is Ness like Fox's kryptonite though?
I think I get it now. Ness can disrupt Fox's momentum if we're reckless but if we play smart then Ness is only an annoyance that we have to deal with and the matchup shouldn't be that badTechnically we have to approach him because of PSI magnet, his Nair allows him to easily escape a string should we get even slightly carried away, he easily edgeguards us with his massively disjointed Fair and most importantly: Ness can sit in shield all day and shield grab us fairly reliably due to our low range and lack of threatening options from any of our throws.
Fox still runs circles around Ness though, so at least we have that and we can edgeguard him reasonably as well. I'm making it sound worse than it is but that's the gist of why we don't generally like the MU.
How about a scenario where you want to KO with style? Just try it. It's super satisfying.Yeah this shine buff is nonexistent. I can't imagine any scenario where I'd rather use shine offstage than just a dropdown Nair if I am going offstage.
Why do we have time to KO with style when we already are more than lacking in KO'ing normally tho?How about a scenario where you want to KO with style? Just try it. It's super satisfying.
I wish the shine endlag was reduced a bit with better air-stalling, and it had a bit more knockback, but this is still pretty cool.
The only thing I've done is SH OoS and shine which knocked down a guy to a tech chase situation where he rolled towards.Is there anything we can do with Shine offensively that we could realistically see sometime?
The angle of kb is weird, I've noticed grounded characters fall flat on their faces when they're hit at tumble %. But it doesn't seem like it could lead into anything from this because of the recovery time from shine won't let it follow up (unless timing is super specific).