Let's discuss the Shine buff.

[colinies]

On this saddest day of days, we did get some good news in the form of the shine buff, thoughts?

 

[ZeroJanitor]

I'm not sure of it's practical application. The angle and power aren't enough to edgeguard efficiently own it's own, but I wonder if any follow-ups out of it are possible.

 

[JackThePwnzor0]

From what I've tested, it could be used to gimp characters like or , but it really doesn't have much use still.

 

[FlynnCL]

The trajectory is much too high and it still possesses a ton of cool-down. It could be sort of useful against Little Mac, Luigi and Dr. Mario but from what I've tested almost anyone else can easily recover from an off-stage shine unless they're at like 180%.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I'm optimistic about it. :D Seems like it has enough knockback to gimp some of the more meh recoveries.

 

[colinies]

Just saw this on Reddit.. thoughts? https://youtu.be/fETFE3KGhFA?t=31s

 

[Jpot]

I can't think of a single situation where gimping with shine would yield better results than using nair. Somebody please correct me, I really want a practical buff to compensate for the loss of the jab cancel.

 

[Rhus]

I can't think of a single situation where gimping with shine would yield better results than using nair. Somebody please correct me, I really want a practical buff to compensate for the loss of the jab cancel.

Shine can be used much deeper off stage because it stops Fox's momentum, and halts his double jump. It also has better base knockback than Nair and is more flexible, able to hit diagonally down and horizontally depending on where you hit them.

Additionally, the shine is tehcnically mildy disjointed and you are in a better position to attack them again after hitting them due to Nair pretty much requiring you to use a Rising Nair to not leave yourself vulnerable under the stage. Shine keeps your DJ available usually.

Lastly, you can turnaround in shine, so you can shine, turnaround and DJ>Bair their recovery depending on the character.

I've been experimenting with it for a bit. It feels pretty good overall but I wouldn't say it's game changing for him.

 

[colinies]

Shine can be used much deeper off stage because it stops Fox's momentum, and halts his double jump. It also has better base knockback than Nair and is more flexible, able to hit diagonally down and horizontally depending on where you hit them.

Additionally, the shine is tehcnically mildy disjointed and you are in a better position to attack them again after hitting them due to Nair pretty much requiring you to use a Rising Nair to not leave yourself vulnerable under the stage. Shine keeps your DJ available usually.

Lastly, you can turnaround in shine, so you can shine, turnaround and DJ>Bair their recovery depending on the character.

I've been experimenting with it for a bit. It feels pretty good overall but I wouldn't say it's game changing for him.

Do you think it's worth it's weight in risk when playing vs a non easily gimped character? I understand it's a good option vs. Falcon but what about someone like Sheik?

 

[Rhus]

Do you think it's worth it's weight in risk when playing vs a non easily gimped character? I understand it's a good option vs. Falcon but what about someone like Sheik?

I personally don't even touch Sheik off stage. I still don't understand why she's allowed to have invincibility and a teleport that kills with a massive windbox.

You might be able to do it if she's directly below the ledge due to Fox's incredible fast fall though. You might be able to catch her before she starts Vanish.

Other thing it's nice for is when they are near the ledge, Dash shining them puts them in a situation where they have to jump or upB quickly back to the ledge. It might end up being a decent mixup because of how mobile Fox is to punish different get up options.

So to answer your question, I think it's reasonably safe to try it even if the character has a great recovery, but only if the recovery doesn't heavily endanger you. So you can probably try to combine Nair and Shine to get Rob to run out of fuel, but I couldn't challenge Lucas or Sheik's UpB with it.

This move might have options on stage due to its speed and use out of a dash, and sending them at an angle that is hard to tech. If they tumble onto the ground near a ledge, you basically get a free follow up due to their limits in options...like a Usmash.

 

[colinies]

I personally don't even touch Sheik off stage. I still don't understand why she's allowed to have invincibility and a teleport that kills with a massive windbox.

You might be able to do it if she's directly below the ledge due to Fox's incredible fast fall though. You might be able to catch her before she starts Vanish.

Other thing it's nice for is when they are near the ledge, Dash shining them puts them in a situation where they have to jump or upB quickly back to the ledge. It might end up being a decent mixup because of how mobile Fox is to punish different get up options.

So to answer your question, I think it's reasonably safe to try it even if the character has a great recovery, but only if the recovery doesn't heavily endanger you. So you can probably try to combine Nair and Shine to get Rob to run out of fuel, but I couldn't challenge Lucas or Sheik's UpB with it.

This move might have options on stage due to its speed and use out of a dash, and sending them at an angle that is hard to tech. If they tumble onto the ground near a ledge, you basically get a free follow up due to their limits in options...like a Usmash.

Hmm, interesting, will have to test it some more and try and implement. Thanks!

 

[Skarfelt]

Yeah this shine buff is nonexistent. I can't imagine any scenario where I'd rather use shine offstage than just a dropdown Nair if I am going offstage.

 

[Foster J.]

Yeah this shine buff is nonexistent. I can't imagine any scenario where I'd rather use shine offstage than just a dropdown Nair if I am going offstage.

You have a 1-2 frames to HIT this, it's easy to air dodge, and it's not a big hitbox either. Not ****ing even going to attempt it

HOW ARE THEY EVEN BEING HIT BY IT

 

[Yogehi]

You have a 1-2 frames to HIT this, it's easy to air dodge, and it's not a big hitbox either. Not ****ing even going to attempt it

HOW ARE THEY EVEN BEING HIT BY IT

Because it's FG lol

i don't have the frame data for the new patch, but it still feels like the hitbox comes out on frame 6...that right there should be enough to avoid using this move

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

Just when i think I'm getting good with Fox he gets nerfed. Anyone have any ideas how Fox can be viable without a good kill set up that I learned how to do? I mean I have other mains but I'm a Starfox fan. I'm new here by the way, so what's up guys

 

[Slam Jammington]

I think at least shine will give us an option to cover really low recoveries that it's to risky to go after with nair or bair.

 

[Luig]

The shine is brutal against fast fallers, especially ones with predictable recoveries like Fox or CF.

 

[Foster J.]

The shine is brutal against fast fallers, especially ones with predictable recoveries like Fox or CF.

I kind of want to see it used against Diddy, just because the Jetpack would get reflected as well lolololo

 

[Luig]

Just hitting diddy during his up b basically kills him, look at sonic's spring versus the barrels.

 

[colinies]

I kind of want to see it used against Diddy, just because the Jetpack would get reflected as well lolololo

I did it last night on FG (I know), it was brutal for Diddy lol.

 

[PEACE7]

From what I've tested, it could be used to gimp characters like or , but it really doesn't have much use still.

It has been a great gimping tool even before the patch.

You guys are too quick to judge. I personally think the patches are a bit dumb since it doesn't give the meta enough time to evolve but Shine is quite amazing like i said even before the patch. It gives fox more movement options that you will all hopefully see good players using soon enough.

 

[Foster J.]

It has been a great gimping tool even before the patch.

You guys are too quick to judge. I personally think the patches are a bit dumb since it doesn't give the meta enough time to evolve but Shine is quite amazing like i said even before the patch. It gives fox more movement options that you will all hopefully see good players using soon enough.

You said something about movement options, but never explained as to WHAT options though, so it's hard to give a better opinion without proper knowledge.

 

[Cocoa Brova]

Just when i think I'm getting good with Fox he gets nerfed. Anyone have any ideas how Fox can be viable without a good kill set up that I learned how to do? I mean I have other mains but I'm a Starfox fan. I'm new here by the way, so what's up guys

haha I feel like all Fox players are wondering if they should just join the Sheik and Luigi overlords (I've only played 2 characters since the 3DS so i guess i've been lucky to not get touched till now). but Fox still has kill set ups with weak Nair up smash or Dair up smash if people don't tech, I think the hit is more in the match up department (wouldn't Ness basically destroy Fox now). i'm gonna try and tough it out (maybe the struggle will convince sakurai to give insta shine back).

 

[PEACE7]

Also this "nerf" to fox could give him more combos and prove to be a buff since at least in my eyes it seems like it could lead to guaranteed kills like say at higher percents.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

If the tipper jab thing isn't too specific for it's spacing i'll call it a buff lol. Never relied too heavily on the jab cancel over and over too much.

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

haha I feel like all Fox players are wondering if they should just join the Sheik and Luigi overlords (I've only played 2 characters since the 3DS so i guess i've been lucky to not get touched till now). but Fox still has kill set ups with weak Nair up smash or Dair up smash if people don't tech, I think the hit is more in the match up department (wouldn't Ness basically destroy Fox now). i'm gonna try and tough it out (maybe the struggle will convince sakurai to give insta shine back).

I seem to do well against Ness with my Fox but maybe it's just luck on my part. Despite this patch taking out the jab lock Fox; I'm still comfortable with him, but maybe that's character loyalty and lots of practice that I should thank for that. Why exactly is Ness like Fox's kryptonite though?

 

[Rhus]

I seem to do well against Ness with my Fox but maybe it's just luck on my part. Despite this patch taking out the jab lock Fox; I'm still comfortable with him, but maybe that's character loyalty and lots of practice that I should thank for that. Why exactly is Ness like Fox's kryptonite though?

Technically we have to approach him because of PSI magnet, his Nair allows him to easily escape a string should we get even slightly carried away, he easily edgeguards us with his massively disjointed Fair and most importantly: Ness can sit in shield all day and shield grab us fairly reliably due to our low range and lack of threatening options from any of our throws.

Fox still runs circles around Ness though, so at least we have that and we can edgeguard him reasonably as well. I'm making it sound worse than it is but that's the gist of why we don't generally like the MU.

 

[Viewtiful Rain]

Technically we have to approach him because of PSI magnet, his Nair allows him to easily escape a string should we get even slightly carried away, he easily edgeguards us with his massively disjointed Fair and most importantly: Ness can sit in shield all day and shield grab us fairly reliably due to our low range and lack of threatening options from any of our throws.

Fox still runs circles around Ness though, so at least we have that and we can edgeguard him reasonably as well. I'm making it sound worse than it is but that's the gist of why we don't generally like the MU.

I think I get it now. Ness can disrupt Fox's momentum if we're reckless but if we play smart then Ness is only an annoyance that we have to deal with and the matchup shouldn't be that bad

 

[Cocoa Brova]

yeah, it basically went from a not favorable, to an almost easy (once double jab became common, since Ness was one of the chosen unlucky characters), back to unfavorable

 

[dahuterschuter]

Yeah, it's still useless.

At least lasers got some cooldown removed finally.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Yeah this shine buff is nonexistent. I can't imagine any scenario where I'd rather use shine offstage than just a dropdown Nair if I am going offstage.

How about a scenario where you want to KO with style? Just try it. It's super satisfying.

I wish the shine endlag was reduced a bit with better air-stalling, and it had a bit more knockback, but this is still pretty cool.

 

[Logo12]

How about a scenario where you want to KO with style? Just try it. It's super satisfying.

I wish the shine endlag was reduced a bit with better air-stalling, and it had a bit more knockback, but this is still pretty cool.

Why do we have time to KO with style when we already are more than lacking in KO'ing normally tho?

---

Just tried out the shine. While the knockback seems good, it's almost like it only works if the opponent doesn't attack at all.

 

[Darklink401]

I think the shine works because it IS fox. because his fastfall is BLINDINGLY fast. You can really catch opponents offguard with it, and unlike a nair, shine stops your momentum, so you won't die from ff nairing. Shine can cover many recovery heights, really fast, which is something Fox doesn't normally have.

I love this lmao.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Is there anything we can do with Shine offensively that we could realistically see sometime?

The angle of kb is weird, I've noticed grounded characters fall flat on their faces when they're hit at tumble %. But it doesn't seem like it could lead into anything from this because of the recovery time from shine won't let it follow up (unless timing is super specific).

 

[Foster J.]

Is there anything we can do with Shine offensively that we could realistically see sometime?

The angle of kb is weird, I've noticed grounded characters fall flat on their faces when they're hit at tumble %. But it doesn't seem like it could lead into anything from this because of the recovery time from shine won't let it follow up (unless timing is super specific).

The only thing I've done is SH OoS and shine which knocked down a guy to a tech chase situation where he rolled towards.

But no it's so gimmicky due to the endlag not being factored in hitting a guy with it.