Let's collect Ledge Option Frame Data !

[Yikarur]

Hey guys. This is very important.

We still don't have the exact frame data for every characters ledge options.
So I want to sent this call out to everyone of you:

Everyone who owns a 60 frame capture device (like Elgato HD60) can help me. Tell me what character you want to do and I will complete the (planned) table/ more and more.

What you have to do to read frame data:
- download VLC Player
- Record yourself doing the ledge options in Training Mode while holding shield to determine the Duration of said option.
- Let a Smart Bomb spawn. Pick this up with the second character. Throw the smart bomb on the ground, then perform the get-up options to determine the invincibility.
- Save the recording as mp4 and play it in the downloaded VLC Player. You advance by 1 frame by pressing "E". Use this to count the frames of the get-up options in your recording.

Important: The Shield Bubble is visible on frame 2 of shielding, that means if the shield pops up on frame 30 the duration of the Ledge Option is 28.

If someone comes up with a good way to determine the duration of Ledge Attack Hitboxes I'd appreciate it to tell us !

UPDATE: Japanese da bess.
http://sixriver.web.fc2.com/ssb4/Character_data.htm
you can here click on any characters name (they are sorted as sorted in the 3DS CSS) and read the frame data from them. Ledge Options are on the third page of the excel under 崖.
How to read:

Option|Start|Total|Ending|Invincible|Invincible Duration|Attack Frame
Forced Hold||20||||
Climb||32|1|1-31|31|
Roll||49|22|1-27|27|
Jump||12||1-12|12|
Attack||54|34|1-20|20|23

Thanks @ A_Kae for this.​

I was planing to do this alone but this is a massive workload to do alone.


Please use the following template to post your results:

 Charakter's Name :Icon:
Ledge Get-up : Invincible Frames / Duration
Ledge Roll:  Invincible Frames / Duration
Ledge Jump:  Invincible Frames / Duration
Ledge Attack:  Invincible Frames / Hit Frames / Duration

Mario
Ledge Get-up : 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-32 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-23 / 24-? / 44

Luigi
Ledge Get-up : 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-32 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 15
Ledge Attack: 1-20 / 20-? / 55

Peach

Bowser
Yoshi
Ledge Get-up : 1-32 / 33
Ledge Roll: 1-21 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-17 / 20-? / 55

Rosalina & Luma
N/A

Bowser Jr.
N/A

Wario
N/A

Mr. Game & Watch
N/A

Donkey Kong
Ledge Get-up : 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-30 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-20 / 23-25 / 55 (54?)

Diddy Kong
Ledge Get-up : 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-26 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-20 / 23-? / 54

Link

Zelda

Sheik
Ledge Get-up : 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-33 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-18 / 21-? / 54

Marth
Ledge Get-up : 1-31 / 32
Ledge Roll: 1-27 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-20 / 23-25 / 54

Pikachu
Ledge Get-up : 1-31 / 32
Ledge Roll: 1-25 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-20 / 23-? / 53

Charizard
Ledge Get-up : 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-25 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-21 / 24-? / 55

Lucario
Ledge Get-up : 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-27 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-15 / 18-? / 51

Jigglypuff
Ledge Get-up : 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-28 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-18 / 21-? / 55

Greninja
Ledge Get-up : 1-31 / 32
Ledge Roll: 1-29/ 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-19 / 22-? / 55

Mewtwo
Ledge Get-up : 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-27 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-37 / 21-? / 55
Ryu
Ledge Get-up : 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-31 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-21 / 24-? / 55

Mii Brawler
Ledge Get-up : 1-43 / 44
Ledge Roll: 1-29 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-20 / 23-? / 55

Mii Swordfighter
Ledge Get-up : 1-43 / 44
Ledge Roll: 1-27 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-19 / 22-? / 55

Mii Gunner
Ledge Get-up : 1-43 / 44
Ledge Roll: 1-31 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-17 / 20-? / 50

Testing Purposes:

Charakter | Ledge Get-Up | Ledge Roll | Ledge Jump | Ledge Attack
Mario | 1-33 / 34 | 1-32 / 49 | 1-12 / 12 | 1-23 24-x / 44
Charakter :icon: | 1-33 / 34 | 1-32 / 49 | 1-12 / 12 | 1-23 / 24-x / 44

If any character board has already done ledge frame data please tell me and post a link to the frame data thread.

 

[⑨ball]

http://sixriver.web.fc2.com/ssb4/Character_data.htm

I wouldn't mind having the actual animations and such as gifs to look at, but the data's already been taken care of.

 

[Yikarur]

Anyone volunteering in translating and converting into the format above?

 

[Luigi player]

Ledge frame data for DK, from Big O's DK frame data thread (http://smashboards.com/threads/dk-frame-data-smash-4-edition.381083/):

Donkey Kong
Ledge Get-up: 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-30 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-20 / 23-25 / 54

Also, what about grabbing the ledge in the first place? Do all characters get invincibility on frame 3 of grabbing it and for the same amount of frames? I know Pikachus got adjusted, but I don't know/think if it's the same for everyone. Most people said there's like 1 frame of being vulnerably while grabbing a ledge. DK seems to have 2.

 

[A_Kae]

Since someone already mentioned sixriver, here's a translation. The data is for Marth, but it's the same format for everyone.

Look at the cell '崖' and use this table as a guide.

Option|Start|Total|Ending|Invincible|Invincible Duration|Attack Frame
Forced Hold||20||||
Climb||32|1|1-31|31|
Roll||49|22|1-27|27|
Jump||12||1-12|12|
Attack||54|34|1-20|20|23

And in the requested format:

Marth
Ledge Get-up: 1-31 / 32
Ledge Roll: 1-27 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-20 / 23-25 / 54

Edit: Ryu's data

Ryu
Ledge Get-up: 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-31 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-21 / 24-?? / 55

 

[I speak Spanish too]

If a Ledge Jump invincible frames are 1-12, and the duration is 12, does that mean that you are completely invincible during your ledge jump? I thought you were vulnerable for the first frame?

 

[Luigi player]

Pokemon batch (data taken from the japanese google doc pages):

Pikachu
Ledge Get-up: 1-31 / 32
Ledge Roll: 1-25 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-20 / 23-? / 53

Charizard
Ledge Get-up: 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-25 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-21 / 24-? / 55

Lucario
Ledge Get-up: 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-27 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-15 / 18-? / 51

Jigglypuff
Ledge Get-up: 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-28 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-18 / 21-? / 55

Greninja
Ledge Get-up: 1-31 / 32
Ledge Roll: 1-29/ 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-19 / 22-? / 55

Mewtwo
Ledge Get-up: 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-27 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-37 / 21-? / 55 (red is wrong, dunno what the real number is, maybe 17 and it was a typo? maybe 18 to match the 3 frame difference with (almost) everyone else?)

 

[DanGR]

Lots of data here for getups:
http://smashboards.com/threads/mechanics-techniques-discussion.368206/page-33#post-19462725

 

[TheReflexWonder]

If a Ledge Jump invincible frames are 1-12, and the duration is 12, does that mean that you are completely invincible during your ledge jump? I thought you were vulnerable for the first frame?

You are invulnerable for the entire animation, but you cannot buffer most other actions, so even if you have a Frame 1 invincible move such as Mac Up-B, the game has to take a frame to register that input before it starts.

 

[Yikarur]

You are invulnerable for the entire animation, but you cannot buffer most other actions, so even if you have a Frame 1 invincible move such as Mac Up-B, the game has to take a frame to register that input before it starts.

Thats not how it works though. If your ledge jump is from 1-12 invincible with a duration of 12, you can use a frame 1 invincibility move without having a single frame of vulnerability inbetween, even with buffering being impossible.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Dks regular getup has more than 1 frame of vulnerability after invincibility is over, I can guarantee you that.

 

[Ulevo]

Since someone already mentioned sixriver, here's a translation. The data is for Marth, but it's the same format for everyone.

Look at the cell '崖' and use this table as a guide.

Option|Start|Total|Ending|Invincible|Invincible Duration|Attack Frame
Forced Hold||20||||
Climb||32|1|1-31|31|
Roll||49|22|1-27|27|
Jump||12||1-12|12|
Attack||54|34|1-20|20|23

And in the requested format:

Marth
Ledge Get-up: 1-31 / 32
Ledge Roll: 1-27 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-20 / 23-25 / 54

Edit: Ryu's data

Ryu
Ledge Get-up: 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-31 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-21 / 24-?? / 55

I am trying to use this as a reference but there is no 崖 cell in the tables. I want to translate the information for Meta Knight.

 

[Yikarur]

You have to look at the third page. You can switch pages at the bottom.

 

[cot(θ)]

Smart bomb is a whole bunch of individual hits rather than a persistent hitbox, so you might not be getting accurate invincibility data this way. Instead you should use an attack with a persistent hitbox like Mario/Luigi Nair, or Mega Man d-tilt.

 

[A_Kae]

I am trying to use this as a reference but there is no 崖 cell in the tables. I want to translate the information for Meta Knight.

It's on the third page. Click the tab at the bottom labeled "基本行動・アイテム".

Here's the data for MK:

Meta Knight
Ledge Get-up : 1-33 / 34
Ledge Roll: 1-32 / 49
Ledge Jump: 1-12 / 12
Ledge Attack: 1-22 / 25-?? / 55

 

[Yikarur]

Smart bomb is a whole bunch of individual hits rather than a persistent hitbox, so you might not be getting accurate invincibility data this way. Instead you should use an attack with a persistent hitbox like Mario/Luigi Nair, or Mega Man d-tilt.

The hitbox of a smart bomb doesn't have holes, so it's the best to use.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Smart bomb is a whole bunch of individual hits rather than a persistent hitbox, so you might not be getting accurate invincibility data this way. Instead you should use an attack with a persistent hitbox like Mario/Luigi Nair, or Mega Man d-tilt.

The hitbox of a smart bomb doesn't have holes, so it's the best to use.

Can this be tested? I'd imagine a definitive test may be difficult, but without one we can't say for sure and we shouldn't use a measurement tool without validating it first.

Also, what about bumpers and spike ball things? Don't they have persisting hitboxes?

 

[Neos]

Anyone know if it's true that a character has less invincibility frames if their percent is really high?

 

[A_Kae]

Anyone know if it's true that a character has less invincibility frames if their percent is really high?

IIRC, that's true for the invincibility on ledge grabs, but not on the climb data.

 

[cot(θ)]

The hitbox of a smart bomb doesn't have holes, so it's the best to use.

Citation needed.

Can this be tested? I'd imagine a definitive test may be difficult, but without one we can't say for sure and we shouldn't use a measurement tool without validating it first.

Also, what about bumpers and spike ball things? Don't they have persisting hitboxes?

That's a smart idea. You should use those items.

 

[Neos]

IIRC, that's true for the invincibility on ledge grabs, but not on the climb data.

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Bumpers send you away on the second frame of being in range, iirc.

 

[Ulevo]

IIRC, that's true for the invincibility on ledge grabs, but not on the climb data.

Do you know what the data is for that approximately? And when the % cap stops?

 

[Yikarur]

citation needed..

I use smart bombs for 7 years already. I know what I'm talking about.

 

[cot(θ)]

I use smart bombs for 7 years already. I know what I'm talking about.

Who the hell do you think you are? You're not above needing evidence to back up your claims.

Bumpers send you away on the second frame of being in range, iirc.

In that case, maybe using an attack with a persistent hitbox is the best option. Some evidence that this is the case would be swell, though.

 

[Yikarur]

I have no idea what kind of evidence you're expecting.

 

[cot(θ)]

I have no idea what kind of evidence you're expecting.

If you have no idea how you would even test it, how can you expect anyone to take your claim seriously? Try making sure it punishes getup options on the same frame as a persistent hitbox, or try rolling into smart bombs with different timings and making sure it always hits on the same frame of the roll, using a 60-frame capture device.

 

[Yikarur]

I've already told you that I'm working with Smart Bombs for 7 years already. I can 100% guarante you that the smart bomb will hit on the first possible frame. I've done frame data back in the early brawl years by using frame advance and I've done Mario, Luigi, Yoshi and Mii Brawler by my the frame capture method and double checked them by using the japanese page. This method is 100% consistent.
Beside that, thanks to the japanese we just need to extract the data from their page anyway so my method is obsolete.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I hear that the sixriver data has errors in it.

 

[⑨ball]

I hear that the sixriver data has errors in it.

Any specifics?

I'd been thinking of translating the entire project for a while now and it'd help to have some notes on any revisions/corrections I need to make.

 

[DavemanCozy]

What does the forced hold mean? Does that mean that a character has to wait grabbing the ledge 20 frames before their action (ie buffered ledge roll) takes place?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What does the forced hold mean? Does that mean that a character has to wait grabbing the ledge 20 frames before their action (ie buffered ledge roll) takes place?

Yes, that's what that means.

 

[Yikarur]

Thats correct.
By the way this thread is completely obsolete because the japanese are the best.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...18BmHhvIBMzZLWBpLFyNsi14c/edit#gid=1519550730
here is a (translated) list of all ledge options and much more!