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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

ZelDan

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
3,303
Location
New Hampshire
Honestly, the only Zelda character I have any interest in seeing at this point is Impa as a Sheik echo.

I wouldn't exactly be upset at Skull Kid being playable (Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game after all), but there are factors that make Skull kid kind of a "meh" character to me

1. It wasn't really the Skull Kid behind the events of MM but Majora's Mask
2. Majora's Mask was the ONLY game where Skull Kid was worth a damn (he's been in other games, but had lesser roles)
3. When he was still possessed, he didn't exactly...do alot past the intro? He steals your horse, turns you into an deku, and then just spends the rest of the game chilling on the Clocktown Tower. Once you do get to him, he just screams and just hovers there doing nothing (as far as I remember anyways, maybe I just deal with him quick enough before he does anything).
 

Tetiro

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
877
Location
United Kingdom
Honestly, the only Zelda character I have any interest in seeing at this point is Impa as a Sheik echo.

I wouldn't exactly be upset at Skull Kid being playable (Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda game after all), but there are factors that make Skull kid kind of a "meh" character to me

1. It wasn't really the Skull Kid behind the events of MM but Majora's Mask
2. Majora's Mask was the ONLY game where Skull Kid was worth a damn (he's been in other games, but had lesser roles)
3. When he was still possessed, he didn't exactly...do alot past the intro? He steals your horse, turns you into an deku, and then just spends the rest of the game chilling on the Clocktown Tower. Once you do get to him, he just screams and just hovers there doing nothing (as far as I remember anyways, maybe I just deal with him quick enough before he does anything).
3. That's his entire playstyle. It is being incorporated into Smash.

Btw the horse is the aerial recovery ;)
 

Yoshi444

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
100
Location
Peru
Idk if it's relevant but in Spanish forums like Vandal or 3djuegos Isaac(or Hans) is very popular. The most liked comments in Newcomers discussions is about him and I love it.
 

Tetiro

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
877
Location
United Kingdom
Idk if it's relevant but in Spanish forums like Vandal or 3djuegos Isaac(or Hans) is very popular. The most liked comments in Newcomers discussions is about him and I love it.
Huh. Do we know if any other places speak highly of Isaac like this that aren't UK or US?
 

CheckmateChuck

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
277
Location
Londinium
Huh. Do we know if any other places speak highly of Isaac like this that aren't UK or US?
Pretty much all of mainland Europe. I know for a fact he's incredibly popular in Germany and France at the very least. Germany alone has like two or three semi-active Golden Sun forums.
 

Metocles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 1, 2018
Messages
275
Location
Pennsylvania
Idk if it's relevant but in Spanish forums like Vandal or 3djuegos Isaac(or Hans) is very popular. The most liked comments in Newcomers discussions is about him and I love it.
Europe is definitely the biggest pullers for our golden boy. I'm glad that at least one market always has it as an their ultimate favorite. I think the ballot and Isaac ranking so high might be because Europe is propping a lot of it up. He's not exactly popular in his home country of Japan and while he has some popularity here in the states, it can be diluted a lot in the midst of a pool of others.

Since I just started on night shift, on days off I've started the first game over again. Currently just beat Colosso a minute ago. It's so easy to forget just how good this game is. You just don't get some elements of the gameplay anywhere else.
 

pholtos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 15, 2018
Messages
404
Darn it. All this talking and now I have the urge to do another challenge run of GS1. Guess I'll do a psynergy only run this time. :p
Edit: Pondering if I should allow Djinn usage, especially the PP restoring ones. No summons, naturally.
 
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James Tutumbero

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 16, 2018
Messages
21
Location
Spain
If I had to take one character's place for Isaac that would be definitely Pichu. She's the only character in the entire franchise I feel she's a left over. There were a lot of Pokémon in that time and they had to include a weaker Pikachu that hurts herself.
 

Flynn.Scifo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
687
Location
Paris . France
I think there is also a community effect, people convince themselves via watching Youtube discussins and chats. Some are convinced Skull kid and Geno are next to come but in fact we just don't know and if you think about it nothing points at any characters. Same goes for Shadow, I heard ppl say he is a given ... but no character is when it comes to smash.
 

Tetiro

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
877
Location
United Kingdom
I think there is also a community effect, people convince themselves via watching Youtube discussins and chats. Some are convinced Skull kid and Geno are next to come but in fact we just don't know and if you think about it nothing points at any characters. Same goes for Shadow, I heard ppl say he is a given ... but no character is when it comes to smash.
This is true. There is every chance Isaac isn't in at all. A realistic perspective is always advised for their hopes and dreams
 

Billybae10K

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
602
Switch FC
SW-4311-5852-0528
People saying many things about GBA but in the DS era we only have Lucario
Just Lucario of the entire DS era
Y'all thought Lucario was DS era, but technically his first ever in-game appearance was in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Red/Blue Rescue Team as a cameo. So he's a DS/GBA hybrid if you go by first retail appearance :p Poor DS...
 

Lonodel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
246
Europe is definitely the biggest pullers for our golden boy. I'm glad that at least one market always has it as an their ultimate favorite. I think the ballot and Isaac ranking so high might be because Europe is propping a lot of it up. He's not exactly popular in his home country of Japan and while he has some popularity here in the states, it can be diluted a lot in the midst of a pool of others.

Since I just started on night shift, on days off I've started the first game over again. Currently just beat Colosso a minute ago. It's so easy to forget just how good this game is. You just don't get some elements of the gameplay anywhere else.
Just beat Saturos I remember this fight giving me so many problems when I was younger got it first try at level 10 :3 of course back then I was fighting with only like 5 djinn total had 8 going in this time XD
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
Location
Vancouver
I think there is also a community effect, people convince themselves via watching Youtube discussins and chats. Some are convinced Skull kid and Geno are next to come but in fact we just don't know and if you think about it nothing points at any characters. Same goes for Shadow, I heard ppl say he is a given ... but no character is when it comes to smash.
Unfortunately, apart from our own Billybae10k, there aren't a lot of Youtubers that focus much on Isaac to my knowledge. That hinders proliferation a bit. Though I think PlayerEssence does as well, but I don't watch his stuff.
 

Tetiro

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
877
Location
United Kingdom
Unfortunately, apart from our own Billybae10k, there aren't a lot of Youtubers that focus much on Isaac to my knowledge. That hinders proliferation a bit. Though I think PlayerEssence does as well, but I don't watch his stuff.
They probably don't even know who Isaac is. We have to admit, Golden Sun is a niche franchise.
 

Metocles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 1, 2018
Messages
275
Location
Pennsylvania
Just beat Saturos I remember this fight giving me so many problems when I was younger got it first try at level 10 :3 of course back then I was fighting with only like 5 djinn total had 8 going in this time XD
Haha, yeah. And you only realize how broken the ones they give you really are. Kite and Ground are just incredible. First game is really short and sweet too. I expect that I'll probably finish it off tomorrow night, Deadbeard and all. Going through GS1 again really helps me remember some of the random things that happen throughout the game and familiarize yourself with places and people that you can tend to forget about.
 

Lonodel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
246
Haha, yeah. And you only realize how broken the ones they give you really are. Kite and Ground are just incredible. First game is really short and sweet too. I expect that I'll probably finish it off tomorrow night, Deadbeard and all. Going through GS1 again really helps me remember some of the random things that happen throughout the game and familiarize yourself with places and people that you can tend to forget about.
Password system here we come!

Edit i've been going back through some old hints and other characters support threads to see how they handle things, I guess sakurai hinted at greninja with a Substitute doll back in the day https://i.imgtc.com/oGu8FPa.jpg
 
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Onassi2

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
48
I think there is also a community effect, people convince themselves via watching Youtube discussins and chats. Some are convinced Skull kid and Geno are next to come but in fact we just don't know and if you think about it nothing points at any characters. Same goes for Shadow, I heard ppl say he is a given ... but no character is when it comes to smash.
I’m actually going to go out on a limb and say Shadow is far less likely than we think he is.

The moveset that Simon has is partially based off Richter’s moves in SotN, and the moveset for the two of them was developed knowing they’d both be representing Castlevania. Just because we got one 3rd party echo, who was developed to complement Simon, doesn’t mean we’ll necessarily get more.

I know there are some huge similarities between Sonic and Shadow, but Sonic (unlike the Castlevania reps) was designed to represent *just* himself. If Shadow is an echo with only his recovery changed, it won’t really feel like the moveset does the character justice and I personally don’t see Sakurai including a character that is untrue to their source material.

He could definitely be a semi-clone, but I feel his chances as an echo are at the very least lower than what seems to be the consensus. I see people all over calling him a “lock” at this point.
 

Flynn.Scifo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
687
Location
Paris . France
Also even though it's nothing compared to building new characters, Echo fighters are still time and ressources consuming and go through a selection process. It's more than mere costume swaps.
 

JaidynReiman

Smash Hero
Joined
May 31, 2014
Messages
8,840
NNID
JaidynReiman
I’m actually going to go out on a limb and say Shadow is far less likely than we think he is.

The moveset that Simon has is partially based off Richter’s moves in SotN, and the moveset for the two of them was developed knowing they’d both be representing Castlevania. Just because we got one 3rd party echo, who was developed to complement Simon, doesn’t mean we’ll necessarily get more.

I know there are some huge similarities between Sonic and Shadow, but Sonic (unlike the Castlevania reps) was designed to represent *just* himself. If Shadow is an echo with only his recovery changed, it won’t really feel like the moveset does the character justice and I personally don’t see Sakurai including a character that is untrue to their source material.

He could definitely be a semi-clone, but I feel his chances as an echo are at the very least lower than what seems to be the consensus. I see people all over calling him a “lock” at this point.
Shadow is 100% identical to Sonic in most of his appearances. In most of his appearances he can't even use Chaos Control as a standalone move.

Shadow would absolutely be true to his source material as an Echo of Sonic. And the reason people are calling him a lock is because of two hurdles he had were overcome:

1.) Third-party Echoes
2.) Maybe getting Chaos Control as a recovery


Shadow's AT is still MIA and has been replaced. Dark Samus similarly had her AT removed and her Samus recolor was replaced.

Shadow's AT being removed and seemingly replaced by Knuckles is why people felt like Shadow was likely to begin with.
 
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~ Valkyrie ~

Holy Maiden Warrior
Premium
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Messages
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3DS FC
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Switch FC
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TempestSurge

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
832
Hopping out of lurkdom in with my few thoughts regarding Isaac's chances. The August direct made me confident in Isaac with Sakurai mentioning how highly requested a character was as he introduced them. We all know Isaac has always managed to make significant grounds in polls, despite not making any recent appearances.

Also I tend to see Isaac's removal of his assist trophy in 4 used as a negative against him in the speculative community. But I feel it's more of a positive. This creates outcry, this makes people want Isaac's return, makes people vote for him in countless polls. It's similar to how cut characters like Snake, Wolf etc. garner similar rally for their return.

And Chrom is the biggest example of this. He's teased as unplayable in one game, and now we have Sakurai mention how so many people wanted his inclusion. There's really no way I believe Sakurai hasn't seen a similar outcry for Isaac's return, especially back in 2015 or so, during the roster's finalization.

Also Golden Sun songs being moved from Metroid, on the one hand you could say, of course, music is sorted by series now, only logical. But what if we were to look at it from the perspective of why the music is being sorted this way now. I feel it's because of new series debut from first party and third alike with this batch of newcomers in particular and this makes things way more neat and organized.
 

True Blue Warrior

Smash Hero
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There a particular reason one of the supporters has their name linked?
A mistake that I will correct.

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  455. Zuppo
 

Arteen

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
1,627
Location
Vault
Isaac was always supposed to be in Smash 4, but Sakurai couldn't finish typing the gold transfer password in time.
 

Sabrewulf238

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
5,164
Location
Ireland
Password system here we come!

Edit i've been going back through some old hints and other characters support threads to see how they handle things, I guess sakurai hinted at greninja with a Substitute doll back in the day https://i.imgtc.com/oGu8FPa.jpg
I wonder how Sakurai expected anyone to get Greninja from that though. I mean sure he can learn substitute and he ended up using it as part of his moveset but he's not the only Pokemon who can learn substitute.

It makes me wonder if these hints aren't really meant for us....maybe Sakurai is just having fun vaguely hinting at characters. (the kind of hints that only make sense in hindsight)
 
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Tetiro

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I wonder how Sakurai expected anyone to get Greninja from that though. I mean sure he can learn substitute and he ended up using it as part of his moveset but he's not the only Pokemon who can learn substitute.

It makes me wonder if these hints aren't really meant for us....maybe Sakurai is just having fun vaguely hinting at characters. (the kind of hints that only make sense in hindsight)
It might just be that. After all behind all that glitz and glamour Sakurai is just another person. And who wouldn't want to have fun teasing characters if they could?

This could just be Sakurai having fun. Like the screen shaking for K Rool or the Intro to Smash Ultimate's segment to the E3 Direct.

I think he's just having fun
 

Metocles

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Isaac was always supposed to be in Smash 4, but Sakurai couldn't finish typing the gold transfer password in time.
On top of that, he couldn't tell if the O's were 0's or if he copied down a lower or upper cased C. Don't even get me started about I's, l's and 1's. Should have used his 20 year old link cable.
 

LasermasterA

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On top of that, he couldn't tell if the O's were 0's or if he copied down a lower or upper cased C. Don't even get me started about I's, l's and 1's. Should have used his 20 year old link cable.
I can't wait for 1saaC in Smash Ultimate.
 

JaidynReiman

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I don't know about this assist trophies and mii costumes thing, it would make the roster very very predictable.
Exactly. And we've gotten characters who haven't had these either. Simon and Ridley are notable, but Daisy as well who didn't have a costume either. Dark Sammy was an AT but not a costume.

There were also costumes of already playable characters (Samus, Captain Falcon, Link), and some costumes still remained AT's. There's no consistency here.


Isaac is easily explainable. He wasn't made a costume because it'd make him TOO obvious. At least K. Rool is reasonable, he had a trophy in the game already. The only characters who got costumes that didn't have trophies in the game already were third-party. And Inklings, but Inklings were given a trophy at the same time the Inkling Mii costumes were added.


Its reasonable to think some characters got costumes because of popularity, but that doesn't make them a lock to be playable at all. Several Mii Fighters without a role already got an Assist Trophy, such as Knuckles and Zero.
 

XenoWarriorX

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Unfortunately, apart from our own Billybae10k, there aren't a lot of Youtubers that focus much on Isaac to my knowledge. That hinders proliferation a bit. Though I think PlayerEssence does as well, but I don't watch his stuff.
I think I know a bunch of Youtubefs who like Golden sun, but since there hasn't been a golden sun in so many years, they don't think he has any chance.

:(
 

Sabrewulf238

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Isaac is easily explainable. He wasn't made a costume because it'd make him TOO obvious. At least K. Rool is reasonable, he had a trophy in the game already. The only characters who got costumes that didn't have trophies in the game already were third-party. And Inklings, but Inklings were given a trophy at the same time the Inkling Mii costumes were added.
It's like how you wouldn't expect Reggie to have a Golden Sun figurine on his desk during an announcement. They couldn't do that and get away with it.
 

SonicLink125

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I think I know a bunch of Youtubefs who like Golden sun, but since there hasn't been a golden sun in so many years, they don't think he has any chance.

:(
Isn't Arlo a Golden Sun fan? I wish he would talk about it more.

Also, if I remember correctly, a lot of the people at RoosterTeeth are also Golden Sun fans.
 
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Sabrewulf238

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Isn't Arlo a Golden Sun fan? I wish he would talk about it more.
He posted a video the other day and talked about some characters he thinks are likely, Isaac didn't even get a mention. Talk about disappointing.

I think I know a bunch of Youtubefs who like Golden sun, but since there hasn't been a golden sun in so many years, they don't think he has any chance.

:(
You'd think King K Rool getting in would blow that argument out of the water.

Anytime you mention K. Rool people bring up the fact that he was at least part of a relevant franchise....but if that article about Nintendo being taken by surprise at King K. Rools popularity in the ballot is to be believed then King K. Rool wasn't any better off than Isaac and Golden Sun.
 

OhMyBanana54

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You know what? It’s now or never, do add me as an Isaac supporter! His games were fun and I’d like to see another retro revival!
 

XenoWarriorX

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Messages
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He posted a video the other day and talked about some characters he thinks are likely, Isaac didn't even get a mention. Talk about disappointing.
I think he talked about it way back in march.

https://youtu.be/tYbRBiAmONI

Though, it's hard to say if he thinks it's ever going to happen.

Isn't Arlo a Golden Sun fan? I wish he would talk about it more.

Also, if I remember correctly, a lot of the people at RoosterTeeth are also Golden Sun fans.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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