Meta Let the Battles Begin! - Cloud Matchup Thread

[Stylo Ren]

You just put a buckshot into a gun and fired it at us lol

Shiek is a bad MU, falcon is even, Zard loses, Pit loses, Fox wins or is even, Marth loses, Robin loses, Rosaluma loses big time, Roy loses big time, Shulk loses and ZSS loses imo

I really hope thats not your list of "mains"

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I gotta say, one of my favorite match ups to play in this game is the vs matchup. I think it could possibly be slightly in Cloud's favor, but imo its kind of even. Thoughts? Also, what are y'alls favorite match ups for our Soldier?

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Thinking about the Diddy matchup. Just throwing some things out there.

1) Stay off Smashville. Our best advantage against Diddy is when he's offstage. Smashville makes him way too safe to recover on the platform, and it doesn't help us. Sure, having the platform to charge limit is nice, but I don't think it's any more helpful than going to FD and eliminating one of his key recovery options.

2) Use his bananas. Early percent banana drop, grab pummel release, Cross Slash can do damage.

3) Offstage kills help. Limit Cross Slash in his face, Limit Blade Beam into the ledge if he tries to use Up B.

I'm looking for more ways to utilize Dair into our game as an approach or defensive, punishing option against his own approach.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

http://smashboards.com/threads/charizard-matchup-discussion-cloud.437690/

Hey Cloud mains.

The Charizard boards are currently discussing the Cloud matchup.

So come on over and tell us what you think.

 

[Noso]

I've heard it time and time again, but why does cloud go positive in the Rosaluma match up?

 

[roymustang1990-]

I've heard it time and time again, but why does cloud go positive in the Rosaluma match up?

Because cloud has a easy time killing off luma thanks to limit

 

[Noso]

Because cloud has a easy time killing off luma thanks to limit

I saw your animated banner before your comment and thought THAT was how cloud beat rosa out, it's quite fitting though lol.

 

[ぱみゅ]

It's not only the limit. Luma dies off Dair, Bair and Dash Attack, even throwing Smashes is worth it on certain scenarios. Cloud walls Rosalina pretty well, juggles her for days with his Uair and kills her insanely early with either raw power, limit, or edgeguarding.

So basically, Cloud has everything Rosalina hates, and as long as you don't act dumb offstage, it should be a decisive victory.

 

[Noso]

It's not only the limit. Luma dies off Dair, Bair and Dash Attack, even throwing Smashes is worth it on certain scenarios. Cloud walls Rosalina pretty well, juggles her for days with his Uair and kills her insanely early with either raw power, limit, or edgeguarding.

So basically, Cloud has everything Rosalina hates, and as long as you don't act dumb offstage, it should be a decisive victory.

Thank you for the clarification, I didn't know much of this since the only exposure to rosaluma has been on FG and no one at my local scene uses her.

 

[InternetSandman]

Hey guys, I was wondering how much experience any of you have in the Toon Link MU and what advice you could give me as a Cloud. I haven't played the MU too much but I'm going up against a good Toon Link tomorrow at a pretty big tournament and I worry that they're going to be the deciding factor on whether I make it out of pools.

Tether grabs and projectile spam seem to give me problems, and these are obviously his specialties. Last time I fought a Tink as cloud I had to counterpick Ganondorf to get the MU inexperience advantage and I really don't wanna do that again lol.

Would you say it's better to camp until I get limit, then use the speed bonuses to play rushdown, or would cloud do better trying to wall Tink out entirely and just chip on damage here and there? What are things that Cloud can exploit in the MU and what things does he need to watch out for?

 

[verbatim]

Not actually sure if this works but if you throw out Nair does it protect you from his bombs? I'd imagine that just the general ability to negate TL's projectiles would force them to approach.

 

[Noso]

Not actually sure if this works but if you throw out Nair does it protect you from his bombs? I'd imagine that just the general ability to negate TL's projectiles would force them to approach.

I know dash attack negates most (if not all) of TLs projectiles in most cases (I could be wrong, but this is observation) as for nair, it'd have to probably be at the exact right moment so as the project is hitting the hit box furthest away from cloud.

 

[54BR3 WU1F]

Do you think that Cloud has a chance against a good Bayonetta main? I think there might be a chance because I've beaten Bayonetta mains who play for competitive play at tournaments before. I think that he's pretty good against her as long as you know how to DI and avoid her counter.

 

[Noso]

Do you think that Cloud has a chance against a good Bayonetta main? I think there might be a chance because I've beaten Bayonetta mains who play for competitive play at tournaments before. I think that he's pretty good against her as long as you know how to DI and avoid her counter.

just about everyone has a good chance against bayo, you just have to play more patiently against her, bait her moves a little harder, and not fall for typical WT shenanigans.

 

[ぱみゅ]

SDI Witch Twist down, Uair for free.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

So I have VoiD in my pool at CEO. I will not be going Ike against him.

For using Cloud, what should I use to beat a top Sheik?

 

[Tisbomb]

So I have VoiD in my pool at CEO. I will not be going Ike against him.

For using Cloud, what should I use to beat a top Sheik?

Spacing would be very important, i would really prepare myself for playing neutral and spacing bairs. Void is patient and will go for safe damage, keeping stage control. I think the most difficult thing to deal with is the speed, he plays at such a fast pace. Try to keep in your gameplan and do not throw out panic air dodges, or moves.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Spacing would be very important, i would really prepare myself for playing neutral and spacing bairs. Void is patient and will go for safe damage, keeping stage control. I think the most difficult thing to deal with is the speed, he plays at such a fast pace. Try to keep in your gameplan and do not throw out panic air dodges, or moves.

Turns out I got moved to Marss and Dath's pool.

But I'll be going Ike against both.

 

[Tisbomb]

Turns out I got moved to Marss and Dath's pool.

But I'll be going Ike against both.

Sounds good Rango. Out of curiousity, why do you feel comfortable going Ike against ZSS instead of cloud? I'd love to hear your thought process on the matchups.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Sounds good Rango. Out of curiousity, why do you feel comfortable going Ike against ZSS instead of cloud? I'd love to hear your thought process on the matchups.

Ike doesn't have to rely on limit charge to make the finish. A number of attacks leave ZSS dead between 80 and 100%. ZSS is also not the safest character, especially with her grabs, neutral B, and even a number of aerials. If she's not Zairing or Nairing, it simply comes down to outspacing the character. Plus she's highly susceptible to UThrow Fair combos all the way to kill percents due to her gravity, fall speed, and tall hurtbox.

 

[Conet]

Hi fellow cloud playas,

I just got beat by an electric rat at my local tournament, and I'm very salty about it.
How do I beat pikachu's quick attack?
Reading it does not work because for some reason AC Nair and fast fall bair only beat it if you time it completely perfectly.
Someone please help.

 

[supremE_]

Can anyone give some insight on the megaman match up? I have no idea how to beat him.

 

[anas abou]

from your personal experience as a cloud main, against which one of my characters () do you have the hardest time fighting, and why/what exact options should i use against cloud.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Hi fellow cloud playas,

I just got beat by an electric rat at my local tournament, and I'm very salty about it.
How do I beat pikachu's quick attack?
Reading it does not work because for some reason AC Nair and fast fall bair only beat it if you time it completely perfectly.
Someone please help.

What about D-tilt or Dash Attack to punish QA out of shield? Cloud runs pretty fast, he could catch up to Pikachu and punish him on cool-down of QA. They may not lead into any guaranteed combos, but it puts Pikachu in a pretty uncomfortable position to get hit by either.

from your personal experience as a cloud main, against which one of my characters () do you have the hardest time fighting, and why/what exact options should i use against cloud.

I think everyone except Roy is a good option against Cloud. Dark Pit can force him offstage pretty well and pressure with his arrow. Toon Link forces Cloud to play at his pace with his projectile game. Pikachu is fast enough to punish Cloud's commitments and can edgeguard him really well. IMO, Pikachu would be best.
----
Now, I want to ask a question: What's the consensus on the Villager matchup? How is one to deal with his F-air and B-air pressure, and how does one get into his space to start pressuring him? Is it better to hang on to Limit so that Cloud can use his better speed to get in his space and have a better chance at recovering against his assault?

 

[supremE_]

Someone please teach me how to fight against mewtwo

 

[The Dismisser]

When the game starts, run right to Mewtwo. Otherwise your opponent has shadow ball and you get like 1/5 of your Limit meter... not a good trade. Look out for mini shadow ball traps too. As for Mewtwo's grabs, they can KO early but have bad range so you have more space to place an aerial on shield. I'd avoid platform stages because of Mewtwo's up smash, which they'll probably fish for around 90 and above. They'll also be fishing for (depending on the player) jab-grab, jab-disable, or even the infinite. The infinite starts with Nair, which you can get around quickly if you know it's coming. Mewtwo's Fair will break strings so be careful but also try to bait it out. Mewtwo's Dtilt is fast, long, and difficult to punish, so respect it and get away so you can space Mewtwo out. Also DI away from Mewtwo on Dthrow and Uthrow. It's a lot but I tried to put in everything I can.

Edit: I don't know nearly as much on Villager but from Villager's good Nair and shield grab I would think you should try to space your opponent around the end of your range so you're more difficult to punish but still able to land some hits. Alternatively camping and charging Limit could help

Anyone have experience on the Robin MU? I've yet to take a game off two different Robin mains as Cloud and as Mii Brawler

 

[ぱみゅ]

Charge Limit (you will pretty much always be in Limit State).
Don't EVER rush into their zoning.
You will never beat their Fair, and punishing it is only when whiffs.
Use Blade Beam (it won't hit often, but it adds pressure).
If you get them into the air, don't drop the juggle. Keep the Uair/grounded pressure.
Abuse their exploitable recovery.

 

[Lord Dio]

Just in case I missed it, has the MU against olimar been covered?

Also, at my area there's a pit main who never approaches me. How do I force pit to approach, as well as punish him rolling?

 

[HFlash]

How do I force pit to approach

as well as punish him rolling?

Once you read the pattern or situations that he is rolling, you can DA (dash attack) where he is going to roll into. Same is true for other characters. Punishing rolls via DA is one of the main and safest ways to hit Lil Mac and start a string to get him off stage.

 

[Stiga]

How do people feel about Roy vs. Cloud? It's not a bad match-up or anything to me, but Roy can get in so easily on Cloud and has superior frame data as well. It's also pretty hard to edgeguard him so I need to rely on kills on-stage. But once I'm offstage against Roy (granted it's like this against most characters I imagine), Cloud is toast.

I think that it is 65/45 or 70/30 to Cloud.
Roy's sword has so little range because it's sweet spot is at the hilt. Cloud has the second longest sword (only shorter than Shulk's Monado).
None of Cloud's attacks have that much starting or ending lag (apart from smash attacks and f-tilt) but many of Roy's attacks have a ton of ending or landing lag (all smash attacks, f-air, b-air, and many others).
Although Cloud has a REALLY bad recovery, Roy's is pretty bad as well. It might have been slightly buffed from Melee, but it still doesn't cover much distance.
The one thing Roy has over Cloud is throw combos.
Please don't think that I am trying to annoy or upset you, I'm just stating what I think. Roy's my boy too

 

[MERPIS]

In my time playing Cloud, watching some videos, whatever. I can safely say that she loses to Pikachu, Sheik, Bayonetta, Meta Knight, and goes even/extremely slight bad against Mewtwo, Diddy Kong, Sonic, and Donkey Kong.

 

[Stiga]

In my time playing Cloud, watching some videos, whatever. I can safely say that she loses to Pikachu, Sheik, Bayonetta, Meta Knight, and goes even/extremely slight bad against Mewtwo, Diddy Kong, Sonic, and Donkey Kong.

I don't think he goes even with DK or Sonic. He beats DK and I don't see anything wrong with Cloud vs Sonic.
EDIT: Sorry I was wrong about the DK matchup

 

[Stiga]

Do you think that Cloud has a chance against a good Bayonetta main? I think there might be a chance because I've beaten Bayonetta mains who play for competitive play at tournaments before. I think that he's pretty good against her as long as you know how to DI and avoid her counter.

It's probably a winning matchup for bayo because she can easily gimp Cloud with up b

 

[MERPIS]

I don't think he goes even with DK or Sonic. He definitely beats DK and I don't see anything wrong with Cloud vs Sonic.

Oh boy it's one of THESE smashboards people, listen here, DK ****s cloud over if he gets a few grabs, sonic ****s him offstage. DONE.

 

[Stiga]

Oh boy it's one of THESE smashboards people, listen here, DK ****s cloud over if he gets a few grabs, sonic ****s him offstage. DONE.

Ok no need to get mad

 

[ぱみゅ]

Bayonetta gimps him and Cloud's spacing game is somewhat susceptible to Witch Time.
I do not see Cloud flat-out losing to Meta Knight, he also has a hard time approaching, and his punish game is not as stellar as it used to be. I can see it being even though.
Sonic should be okay for Cloud with proper spacing.
With proper spacing Cloud shouldn't be grabbed very often by DK, if at all.
Another surprisingly even matchup is Marth/Lucina.

 

[DeltaForce]

Yeah Cloud loses to Pikachu pretty hard, but Pika can lose if he does not get the edge guard if you watch Shine 2016 M2K vs ESAM, I think it was their second game, ESAM gimped M2K at a ridiculously low percent but at the end of the game ESAM nearly lost, it was a last hit situation and he got the RAR thunder.

Basically I think Cloud with Pika either loses really hard or he can win, there is not much of a middle ground, no edge guard could cost Pikachu the game. So not Cloud is not so bad off as people might think against Pikachu.

 

[Alpha Lion]

Hey there. First off I'd like to say thanks for keeping this thread discussion going.

And second, here's something I found out about that could affect his matchup with Meta Knight. This definitely needs more experimentation and analysis:

https://youtu.be/vgJQ4pbEM5k

Note that I did not use a single up air as Meta Knight.

 

[Crosstails20]

How does , , and fair against

 

[The Dismisser]

Idk about most of those, sorry. If it helps, I think there was some info on the Rosalina MU on this or another thread.