Leffen a 6th God in melee

[Acryte]

Leffen almost lost to a sick Armada.
No johns, but Leffen also lost to Plup, PLUP.

You clearly didn't watch plup play. Dude was an unstoppable beast. He seemed like he leveled up even more and pushed the Samus meta futher.

 

[S2rulL]

leffen is arguably best in the eu right now

i would not be shocked if with his solid play he was elevated into the position of god no. 6

 

[menotyou135]

Lets be real here. Armada is inarguably the best in the EU. He is arguably better than Mango who is considered the best in the world. He has been considered better than Mango in the past. He has a legacy that Leffen cannot touch. Claiming Leffen is better than armada, is like claiming Gahtzu is the best player in florida because he broke a record for smashing for a long time. Yeah, his feat is impressive, but that doesn't make him the best.

 

[Doublecork]

I am an Armada fanboy, but just because Armada has won a bunch of things (a ton, really) doesn't mean he is better than another player. In their most recent sets, Leffen's Fox has been dominant over Armada's Peach. Especially in NTSC. However, it is more likely in my opinion that Leffen can beat Armada but is not a better player.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

I think that leffen is arguably the best in europe, he is looking REALLY good as of now. Let's see if he can get that marth MU down and do something amazing at Apex.

 

[S2rulL]

Lets be real here. Armada is inarguably the best in the EU. He is arguably better than Mango who is considered the best in the world. He has been considered better than Mango in the past. He has a legacy that Leffen cannot touch. Claiming Leffen is better than armada, is like claiming Gahtzu is the best player in florida because he broke a record for smashing for a long time. Yeah, his feat is impressive, but that doesn't make him the best.

well considering leffen can comfortably go even with armada i'd say he's pretty bloody good. yes, over the past few years armada has had leffen's number on nearly every occasion. but not only big house 4, but also at beast 5 and at paragon leffen has beaten him, as well as beating other notably great players like mango. so yeah, i'd argue for z i p b o y z (don't get me wrong though, i still love armada).

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

While he is every bit as good if not better than M2K and Hbox, I always had trouble calling PP a god when he shows up to like less than five tourneys a year. Yes I get that the ones he shows up to are big nationals and he's been placing high for many years, but in order to be a legitimate "god" I think you need to be present, and not just be brilliant in a (comparitively) small sample size. I agree that PP is as good as the other four, but doesn't meet my requirements to be a "god." Also, m2k said there are six, Mang0 disagrees because Leffen hasn't met his requirements. I prefer Mang0 to M2k, but M2K is usually right/trustworthy on subjects like this, Mang0 is cocky and usually drunk. I'd listen to M2K before Mang0. So, I think Leffen is at least climbing the stairway to Smash heaven and will be a god by the end of the year, if he isn't already.

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

While he is every bit as good if not better than M2K and Hbox, I always had trouble calling PP a god when he shows up to like less than five tourneys a year. Yes I get that the ones he shows up to are big nationals and he's been placing high for many years, but in order to be a legitimate "god" I think you need to be present, and not just be brilliant in a (comparitively) small sample size. I agree that PP is as good as the other four, but doesn't meet my requirements to be a "god." Also, m2k said there are six, Mang0 disagrees because Leffen hasn't met his requirements. I prefer Mang0 to M2k, but M2K is usually right/trustworthy on subjects like this, Mang0 is cocky and usually drunk. I'd listen to M2K before Mang0. So, I think Leffen is at least climbing the stairway to Smash heaven and will be a god by the end of the year, if he isn't already.

Leffen is definitely the evil God tho.

 

[MOHadam]

While he is every bit as good if not better than M2K and Hbox, I always had trouble calling PP a god when he shows up to like less than five tourneys a year. Yes I get that the ones he shows up to are big nationals and he's been placing high for many years, but in order to be a legitimate "god" I think you need to be present, and not just be brilliant in a (comparitively) small sample size. I agree that PP is as good as the other four, but doesn't meet my requirements to be a "god." Also, m2k said there are six, Mang0 disagrees because Leffen hasn't met his requirements. I prefer Mang0 to M2k, but M2K is usually right/trustworthy on subjects like this, Mang0 is cocky and usually drunk. I'd listen to M2K before Mang0. So, I think Leffen is at least climbing the stairway to Smash heaven and will be a god by the end of the year, if he isn't already.

PPMD hasnt been attending many tournaments lately due to personal issues...There was a time when he would go out more but he has put smash on the back-burner recently, and rightfully so.

Also if you're taking m2k's side on this then there are no gods of melee, there is only top 6. M2k has stated before that he doesnt like the term "gods of melee" and doesnt think it should be used.

 

[Acryte]

The Elite 6?

 

[menotyou135]

well considering leffen can comfortably go even with armada i'd say he's pretty bloody good. yes, over the past few years armada has had leffen's number on nearly every occasion. but not only big house 4, but also at beast 5 and at paragon leffen has beaten him, as well as beating other notably great players like mango. so yeah, i'd argue for z i p b o y z (don't get me wrong though, i still love armada).

A fox main being able to do well against a peach main.

How Surprising.

http://www.meleeitonme.com/ssbm-rank-2014-2/ Here you will see Armada's 2015 record against leffen: 10-5. Leffen has a losing record against armada for last year which is easily Leffens best year and one of Armada's worst years. With all that considered, leffen still has a 66% loss rate vs Armada last year.

How can you possibly argue that he is better than Armada (I.E. the post you quoted)

Leffen is good. He isn't the best in the EU as the person above me was trying to claim. That's what my post was saying.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

That was LAST YEAR. this year, that might change

 

[dfrogman]

can we all agree to stop pretending like theres a debate to be had here now that paragon happened
this isnt vietnam we have to try to be civilized there are some things that we should just try to be above as a community like murder and theft and thinking that leffen isnt a 6th god of melee after paragon

edit: i know he lost to plup shut up nerds

 

[Latkes]

I don't think he's a god yet. I'm holding fast in my belief that to become a god, you have to be able to beat all of the five current gods, which he has yet to do. When he had the chance to beat M2K (a self-described out of practice M2K at that) in Losers' Finals at Paragon, he could have emphatically proven his status as a god by winning that set and then beating Hungrybox in Grands. But did that happen? No. He's got problems with that black Marth and until he overcomes them he's not a god.

For the record, however, I think he'll be a god by next week.

 

[menotyou135]

That was LAST YEAR. this year, that might change

It might change. It hasn't yet. So my statement that he isn't the best in the EU still Holds because Armada is still better than him.

Anybody who argues otherwise is just being silly until Leffen proves he can at least get an even tournament record compared to Armada.

He is inarguably 2nd best but not the best.

can we all agree to stop pretending like theres a debate to be had here now that paragon happened
this isnt vietnam we have to try to be civilized there are some things that we should just try to be above as a community like murder and theft and thinking that leffen isnt a 6th god of melee after paragon

He placed third losing to Plup and getting really close to 5th after almost losing to Armada where he almost got 4stocked twice (and did get 4stocked once).

I didn't realize getting 3rd at a non-national meant you were a god

Other players who are undebatably Gods according to the logic of your post from 2014:
Plup: 2nd at CEO Prolouge

Colbol: 2nd Fight Pitt V
2nd CEO Winterfest 2014
2nd VGC Evo Sponsorship Tournament
3rd CEO 2014 Prologue
3rd Tipped off 10

Westballz: 1st Super Smash Sundays 30 (Apex Qual)
1st Socal Regionals 2014
2nd Low Tier City 2
2nd The Next Episode

Hax: 1st Do You Fox Wit It?
1st (TIE) KTAR XI
1st Mass Madness CE
1st Super Nebulous
2nd Justice 4
2nd Zenith 2014
2nd WHOBO

Zhu: 3rd at Zenith

Fly Amantia: 3rd at Pats House 2

Silent Wolf: 2nd at Do you Fox With it?

SFAT: 3rd at Do you Fox with it?

Axe: 2nd Forte 2

Wobbles: 3rd Forte 2

Ice: B.E.A.S.T 4

Amsa: Republic of Fighters 3

So essentially, if barely placing 3rd at a major event means you are Undebatably a God, then we have at least 12 new gods who need added (minus Leffen himself). There are probably more but I got tired of researching to counter such a rediculous claim.

 

[KillerGum]

It might change. It hasn't yet. So my statement that he isn't the best in the EU still Holds because Armada is still better than him.

Anybody who argues otherwise is just being silly until Leffen proves he can at least get an even tournament record compared to Armada.

He is inarguably 2nd best but not the best.



He placed third losing to Plup and getting really close to 5th after almost losing to Armada where he almost got 4stocked twice (and did get 4stocked once).

I didn't realize getting 3rd at a non-national meant you were a god

Other players who are undebatably Gods according to the logic of your post from 2014:
Plup: 2nd at CEO Prolouge

Colbol: 2nd Fight Pitt V
2nd CEO Winterfest 2014
2nd VGC Evo Sponsorship Tournament
3rd CEO 2014 Prologue
3rd Tipped off 10

Westballz: 1st Super Smash Sundays 30 (Apex Qual)
1st Socal Regionals 2014
2nd Low Tier City 2
2nd The Next Episode

Hax: 1st Do You Fox Wit It?
1st (TIE) KTAR XI
1st Mass Madness CE
1st Super Nebulous
2nd Justice 4
2nd Zenith 2014
2nd WHOBO

Zhu: 3rd at Zenith

Fly Amantia: 3rd at Pats House 2

Silent Wolf: 2nd at Do you Fox With it?

SFAT: 3rd at Do you Fox with it?

Axe: 2nd Forte 2

Wobbles: 3rd Forte 2

Ice: B.E.A.S.T 4

Amsa: Republic of Fighters 3

So essentially, if barely placing 3rd at a major event means you are Undebatably a God, then we have at least 12 new gods who need added (minus Leffen himself). There are probably more but I got tired of researching to counter such a rediculous claim.

Your logic throughout this entire thread is flawed.
You act as if getting 4-stocked discredits you winning a set.
You john for Armada and Mango.
You seemingly have a bias for Armada just because he has a "legacy".
Your analogies are garbage and the events you claim to be "majors" are really just reigonals and some don't even have the "gods" in attendance.
Leffen has placed highly at actual major tournaments with the "gods" in attendance and consistently challenges them, if not beats them.
He has a better record against the other top 6 players than M2k and Hbox do.
Your arguments just don't hold water.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

The Gods are falling. How epic.

 

[TKD]

I find this so hilarious

in order to be a legitimate "god" I think you need to be present

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

PPMD hasnt been attending many tournaments lately due to personal issues...There was a time when he would go out more but he has put smash on the back-burner recently, and rightfully so.

Also if you're taking m2k's side on this then there are no gods of melee, there is only top 6. M2k has stated before that he doesnt like the term "gods of melee" and doesnt think it should be used.

I don't take M2K's side completely. I do believe there are gods in melee, but I agree with his assessment of leffen's skill.

 

[Chinaux]

I honestly hope he becomes one. He's probably my favorite pro really, but I don't really think he is quite good enough for it. He's close but I feel in a while he will be.

 

[dfrogman]

got tired of researching to counter such a rediculous claim.

maybe you should have researched just a little bit more

so rediculous

 

[Darklink401]

Rather than joining the gods, isn't it possible this year, Leffen plans to overthrow the Gods, and be the one at the top himself?

He DID say this is his year. So we'll see how that goes.

But it'd fit Leffen to be a sort of evil god, sitting atop the Melee throne all by himself.

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

I find this so hilarious

Is that an attack on theism? If so, I do not want you bringing that into this.

 

[TKD]

Is that an attack on theism? If so, I do not want you bringing that into this.

LOL sorry sorry sorry

 

[IvanTehFennec]

Just sayin'

 

[AUS]

Leffen may be a bit of a villain at times and his comments on twitter have made us all mad, it is impossible to see his skill in all the sets he has done. Leffen as of late has been showing so much promise and fight that I truly believe he is the "6th God". Even M2K stated this at Paragon, I just wish Leffen would have taken the compliment gracefully rather than say that he wont rest till he is the only god.

 

[Darklink401]

Leffen may be a bit of a villain at times and his comments on twitter have made us all mad, it is impossible to see his skill in all the sets he has done. Leffen as of late has been showing so much promise and fight that I truly believe he is the "6th God". Even M2K stated this at Paragon, I just wish Leffen would have taken the compliment gracefully rather than say that he wont rest till he is the only god.

What's wrong with striving to be the best? Leffen just has big ambitions.

 

[AUS]

What's wrong with striving to be the best? Leffen just has big ambitions.

Oh don't get me wrong, have nothing against him being ambitious, but you've just been called a god by the man who just beat you in a set, he should have just said thank you to that rather than just starting up more Drama. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Darklink401]

Oh don't get me wrong, have nothing against him being ambitious, but you've just been called a god by the man who just beat you in a set, he should have just said thank you to that rather than just starting up more Drama. But that's just my opinion.

I never expected a thank you from leffen, and I doubt m2k did, lol.

We'll just have to see if Leffen can prove that he DOES deserve to be the only god.

Go leffen, go.

 

[menotyou135]

Alright. M2k down. I'll give it to him now.

 

[JustYuck]

Oh he's great, I just hope to god that mango beats him. He is just too much of a jerk to be somebody I would cheer for.

 

[zpxociv]

Why is everyone thinking Leffen is godly because he beat M2K when he's sick? That's like beating someone when they're half-drunk and calling that a supreme victory. It's not. It's fraudulent, in fact. You know what else? Mango isn't sick and even sick M2K gave Leffen a run for his money. I expect Mango vs Leffen to be an ironic, twisted reflection of Leffen vs Chillen. I actually like the hype Leffen causes and root for him but I'm not convinced he's god-tier yet and beating Mango will change my opinion.

 

[The Prince L]

LEFFEN BEATING M2K COST HIM $1000

 

[SirGroovitude]

I honestly think Leffen is pretty cocky. He's a great player, don't get me wrong, but he expresses it a little too much in my opinion i.e. (Social media, etc.) and good for him for taking out the big 5 in the melee scene, but honestly, players like Mang0, Armada, and maybe even PP would still take 90% of matches against him.

 

[WhiteMarthAlex]

To me it doesn't seem like he wants to become a God, but in fact more of an upsetting persona. He just isn't the type to sit on top like mango.

 

[SSS]

I just hope to god that mango beats him.

I expect Mango vs Leffen to be an ironic, twisted reflection of Leffen vs Chillen. I actually like the hype Leffen causes and root for him but I'm not convinced he's god-tier yet and beating Mango will change my opinion.

LEFFEN BEATING M2K COST HIM $1000

but honestly, players like Mang0 would still take 90% of matches against him.

He just isn't the type to sit on top like mango.

lol

 

[tauKhan]

This page is so funny LMAO . For reals though, the competition at the top has got very interesting and unpredictable. How do you even seed the next big tourney fairly, at this point you could pretty much just rng the top6 seeds.

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

Leffen has gotten at least 3rd at three straight enormous majors, defeating gods on the way there. I think Leffen is officialy the Melee Devil.

 

[ck2399]

Leffen has gotten at least 3rd at three straight enormous majors, defeating gods on the way there. I think Leffen is officialy the Melee Devil.

Melee Devil is actually fitting. Leffen is the black sheep of the melee gods realm, a disgraceful, disrespectful and ill-manered player, whose insolence is only matched by his talent. He's the angel who rebelled against the Mango almighty

 

[Darklink401]

As I've said, Leffen is the God-slayer. He even said it himself, he wants to be the only one sitting at the top. He isn't there QUITE yet (due to Peepee's stupidly broken Marth vs spacies, and Armada's unexpectedly amazing Fox) but he DID beat M2k and Mang0 in this tournament. He's definitely proven himself.