Ledge Cancel UpB

[HT F8]

I think I saw KDJ use it in a match?
Dash, ledge cancelled UpB -> edgehog.

I can never get the turnaround.

Anyone know how to do it/tips on how to do it?

Does it even exist? >_>

And also, I have a lot of trouble with Sheik's UpB in general. I always end up the wrong was or bumping into a wall. Any advice on using the UpB while recovering more efficiently would be nice. I checked the only guide I could find, and it wasn't even completed. ;_;

So yeah. Help?<3

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's impossible.

 

[Teczer0]

To do the "edge-cancel" vanish you have to run toward the edge, and as you are about to fall off the edge do the up-b. Your momentum carries you off the edge and allows you to vanish toward the edge and grab it.

I have no idea what problems you have with sheik's vanish, your question is too vague.

LOL at KK

 

[sKatZ]

in general try to upb from a 45 degree angle above the ledge makes it much easier to sweetspot if that option is open to you. learn how to recover on the stage with the double explosion sometimes, um...ya kinda vague

 

[HT F8]

To do the "edge-cancel" vanish you have to run toward the edge, and as you are about to fall off the edge do the up-b. Your momentum carries you off the edge and allows you to vanish toward the edge and grab it.

I have no idea what problems you have with sheik's vanish, your question is too vague.

LOL at KK

Thanks for the reply.

Ah, that's the part I'm sure of. My question is more on the timing... as in, what part of the vanish should I be holding towards the stage to get the reversal of the UpB. Is it just; run off, instantly UpB, immediately hold the control stick towards the stage? Cause when I do this, I usually end up jumping and just UpB'ing back onto the stage.
Maybe I just suck and need more practice? XD

My apologies for being vague, but that question kinda ties in with the first one. I just have trouble knowing where exactly my UpB will land; on FD being close the the stage usually results in death, because I'll vanish into it. T_T

tl;dr: In what part of the vanish can it be reversed?
i.e. Being able to use the beginning motion of it to get out from under FD's lip, and still being able to grab the edge without falling while facing the wrong direction.


...I'm bad at explaining things.<3

Spoiler

KirbyKaze makes me cut myself at night.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

When you run off and Vanish, there's like... a false explosion, then a real explosion. Hold after the real one.

If you're jumping before you Vanish, it means you're not jump canceling right.

You can ride the edge of the stage with the little jump on the Vanish so you don't get caught under as often... or you could just Vanish earlier when you're still out horizontally.

Or you could walljump. Whee.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Spoiler

KirbyKaze makes me cut myself at night.

Your anguish sustains me.

 

[rhan]

And also, I have a lot of trouble with Sheik's UpB in general. I always end up the wrong was or bumping into a wall. Any advice on using the UpB while recovering more efficiently would be nice. I checked the only guide I could find, and it wasn't even completed. ;_;

So yeah. Help?<3

Only thing I can say about using the up B is to learn the angles of the move and the space between start and finish.

I don't know what else I can say to help.

Just experiment with the move and learn what you can and cannot do.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNiClgJcjM&fmt=18

Starts at around 6:40.

 

[HT F8]

When you run off and Vanish, there's like... a false explosion, then a real explosion. Hold after the real one.

If you're jumping before you Vanish, it means you're not jump canceling right.

You can ride the edge of the stage with the little jump on the Vanish so you don't get caught under as often... or you could just Vanish earlier when you're still out horizontally.

Or you could walljump. Whee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNiClgJcjM&fmt=18

Starts at around 6:40.

Ah! Thank you very much elven.<3
I see. I'll give it some practice and hopefully I won't be back with any other questions.
^_^

Your anguish sustains me.

<///////3

Only thing I can say about using the up B is to learn the angles of the move and the space between start and finish.

I don't know what else I can say to help.

Just experiment with the move and learn what you can and cannot do.

I see. Thanks for your input rhan. I'm going to go give it some practice now.

-

Thanks everyone, feel free to leave any additional information if you'd like.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Isn't this called vanish gliding?

 

[Wind Owl]

Yeah, ledge cancel Up B would be more like what Zelda can do with the end lag of Farore's Wind.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

...wait what? Zelda doesn't have landing lag on Farore's Wind... as long as you don't teleport straight onto the ground, that is.

 

[Wind Owl]

Really? Maybe I'm just thinking of Brawl (>___>) but I could have sworn you can cancel some sort of landing lag by ledge canceling FW.

EDIT: Oh! I think it was more that you could FW, ledgecancel, and double jump, bypassing Zelda's retardedly slow 7 frame startup on her jump.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

...that seems like a lot of effort to get into the air.

 

[CanISmash]

can we get a discussion going on this?

i seriously think the ledge cancel up - b is worthless.

i think you're better off finding a way to turn around whether dash dance and wd onto the ledge. or even reverse needle cancel.

this is just my opinion but it feels like they can beat you to the ledge if you up-b cancel or worse it hits them and gives them another shot at recovering, while if you had the ledge you could kill or edge guard them better? i can do it but i've had no good really come from it.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I think in terms of speed, the fastest edgehog would be the PC edgehog.

Barring that... I tend to run at the edge, wavedash forward, turn then wavedash back onto the edge. It's usually fast enough. Short hop reverse needle cancels work too, I guess.

 

[Wind Owl]

...that seems like a lot of effort to get into the air.

lool It's to cover distance for edgeguarding and stuff. It's just faster than ground teleport -> Fair, etc.

But yeah, I guess it is a bit fancy.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Oh, hm, so it's like that thing DaShizWiz does on Pokemon Stadium with the Falco Phantasm. Interesting.

 

[Wind Owl]

Yeah, exactly.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Do you just do that on the fly or do you have any specific stages/locations that works on? Farore's Wind takes you forever, and it's hard to recover afterwards if you miss.

 

[Wind Owl]

No, sorry. You might want to make a topic in the Zelda boards; I'm sure people like Umbreon and NinjaLink have specific locations memorized.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I think in terms of speed, the fastest edgehog would be the PC edgehog.

Barring that... I tend to run at the edge, wavedash forward, turn then wavedash back onto the edge. It's usually fast enough. Short hop reverse needle cancels work too, I guess.

PC is good if you run first, then crouch and walk.

Really fast, possibly the fastest method aside from RNC edgehogs: Run towards the edge, cancel your run with the edge (see SCOTU's thread), turn around and wavedash off. Don't do it on yoshi's story though.

 

[COOPER]

what you said about bumping into walls and such: i used to have the same problem. it helps if after you upB and "choose" your direction to then let go of the control stick, if you are coming from below the stage you wont bump and if your coming from above, angle your chosen DI toward the edge and then let go and you'll sweetspot (after a little practice)

 

[HT F8]

what you said about bumping into walls and such: i used to have the same problem. it helps if after you upB and "choose" your direction to then let go of the control stick, if you are coming from below the stage you wont bump and if your coming from above, angle your chosen DI toward the edge and then let go and you'll sweetspot (after a little practice)

Ohhh, really? I'll give that a try later today, thanks.<3

can we get a discussion going on this?

i seriously think the ledge cancel up - b is worthless.

i think you're better off finding a way to turn around whether dash dance and wd onto the ledge. or even reverse needle cancel.

this is just my opinion but it feels like they can beat you to the ledge if you up-b cancel or worse it hits them and gives them another shot at recovering, while if you had the ledge you could kill or edge guard them better? i can do it but i've had no good really come from it.

Well yeah... but it's so **** sexy. @_@

Edit: Still can't even come close to getting it. No matter what timing I try, I haven't gotten a single one ledge cancelled. T_T

 

[Wind Owl]

You want to run at the ledge and hit B a little before Up, so that you vanish as Sheik would slide off the edge if you weren't Vanishing. It just takes practice, really. You might want to try it at a slower speed in Training Mode. Alternatively, if you have access to Brawl you can learn that way since it's easier in Brawl, lol.

Some things to keep in mind:
If you jump and then Vanish, you're pressing Up WAY too early.
If you Vanish on the stage and don't slide off, you're Vanishing too early.
If you start charging needles, you're pressing Up way too late.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

If you're charging needles, you've broken the game some how, because you can't use neutral Bs out of a run =P

 

[Wind Owl]

Oh, right, lol.

 

[COOPER]

can we get a discussion going on this?

i seriously think the ledge cancel up - b is worthless.

i think you're better off finding a way to turn around whether dash dance and wd onto the ledge. or even reverse needle cancel.

this is just my opinion but it feels like they can beat you to the ledge if you up-b cancel or worse it hits them and gives them another shot at recovering, while if you had the ledge you could kill or edge guard them better? i can do it but i've had no good really come from it.

i use it as an edgeguard occasionally but its definitely not worthless, behold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8ejRCpMlBc

about 55 seconds in.

 

[KirbyKaze]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fNxCwrRPRc

 

[Wind Owl]

I never understood how to do the Vanish stall properly. I always ledgehop and Vanish downwards but I have a lot of vulnerability frames... So it's not even really a stall. How do you do it?

 

[KirbyKaze]

you're not timing is fast enough

there's a 10 frame window of error though so you should be able to get it quickly with practice

your method is fine

just up+b faster after the ledgehop

 

[CanISmash]

i use it as an edgeguard occasionally but its definitely not worthless, behold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8ejRCpMlBc

about 55 seconds in.

look at that vid i mean i hate it myself when people speak theory in smash as opposed to actual gameplay and practicality but doesn't that look like a lot of time for a dash dance wd edge hog? or something a lot simpler to get to the edge.

the reason i say this is because i've done the up-b cancel only to have the opponent grab the edge and now i have to aim back towards the stage and be vulnerable.

or like i said give them an explosion hit when they were probably already dead, helping them recover

 

[HT F8]

look at that vid i mean i hate it myself when people speak theory in smash as opposed to actual gameplay and practicality but doesn't that look like a lot of time for a dash dance wd edge hog? or something a lot simpler to get to the edge.

the reason i say this is because i've done the up-b cancel only to have the opponent grab the edge and now i have to aim back towards the stage and be vulnerable.

or like i said give them an explosion hit when they were probably already dead, helping them recover

It's just another option; something to mix it up.

Obviously shouldn't be used for every single edgehog/guard.

Edit: This is so unbelievably difficult for no reason. I got it for the first time tonight and then did it about 10 times in a row. Now I can't do it twice in a row. -.-

I'm doing the same thing every time... vanish jump too early, fly off stage... or once in a while throw out chain, fall to death. T_T

Edit as of 3 mins later: I just did it 4 times in a row. -.-
Eh, I kinda got the hang of it, now that I actually get the concept of up-b'ing without jumping and letting your momentum carry you offstage... I'm still doing it at about 50%.

Thanks again everyone for all the help.<333

 

[enza99]

threads r so long lol... 3rd page but whatever dunno ima just say anyways... well uhh heres how i c/do it...

-basically sheiks up B gives u a jump
-what you want to do is while running towards the edge you want to start the up B without the jump
-so after actually doing ur up B the 2nd thing is just having the timing of when u should use the up B before your off the edge...
-also you should hold the direction back towards the stage since u can possibly just fly off... lol and well if u did it right without the jump given then ur fine

to start id recommend going to FD then kinda of eyeballing approximately when it works then after that u can wing it

i find this simpler than having to idk but i think this is what someone said:
running towards wavedashing forward turn around wavedashing back...
shorthopping a reverse needle is okay too i guess... but idk u kinda have to be careful with that
as for wavedashing back facing the wrong way might not be fast enough idk...

but uhh idk i just like throwing needles at people then getting on the edge and doing my back aerial then landing back on the edge XD

but uhh pretty easy to learn took me like less than a minute lol

Edit: last note
-personally i dont use this alot in combat my wavedashes r fine
-and well if ur using this its either to be flashy or to rush it and if ur rushing it idk i should test this... what if they hit the edge first and u just end up getting smacked around after that
-so itd probably be u dont needa rush so this might just be a risk or if u do needa rush u could probably run off and smack them or needle or somethin less risky idk...
-THIS LOOKS SUPER NINJA lol
altho i think its perfectly fine to use i said i dont use it alot doesnt mean i dont

 

[LooksLikePit]

in general try to upb from a 45 degree angle above the ledge makes it much easier to sweetspot if that option is open to you. learn how to recover on the stage with the double explosion sometimes, um...ya kinda vague

you can control the double explosion? o.O

how?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Yeah, if you use the little jump of the Vanish to land on the stage, you'll get a small puff of smoke, land, get the explosion and then the reappearing explosion.

It's pretty rare to see though.

 

[Fabian]

i asked dsf this question
basically
you do it the way it looks
i thought there was a trick but nope
run and upb and move the joystick to the edgehog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP_Aa3DaMRE
2:27 =]